Why 'Atomic Habits' may not be working for you

https://www.krishnabharadwaj.info/why-atomic-habits-may-not-be-working-for-you/

by krisys • 3 years ago

203 109 3 years ago

I can’t speak for anyone else, but the this post almost perfectly describes the sort of horrible, addicted, easily distracted and habit-driven state I seem to have lapsed into. So I’ll definitely try what the author suggests and see if it helps.

firsttimebigboy• 3 years ago

I feel like I'm in the same state. Hopefully this works for me as well.

Arubis• 3 years ago

Extreme tl;dr: build a meditation practice before worrying about anything else.

senectus1• 3 years ago

I still don't get this meditation thing.

hunter-gatherer• 3 years ago

I honestly think a 30 minute walk 2x/day with nothing besides maybe your dog will get you where you need to go.

wpietri4• 3 years ago

I get two big things out of it.

One is practice in managing thoughts and feelings. If you just sit and breathe, you'll begin to notice how much the mind wanders, how much thoughts randomly arise and pinball around your head. Meditation gives you a lot of practice in not getting caught up in that.

The other is what I think of as self-instrumentation. As with any sort of performance tuning or debugging, the foundation is paying attention to what's actually going on. Meditation has greatly increased my ability to introspect, which helps me solve a lot of things that in the past were mysteries to me.

betterburnout• 3 years ago

When we start, I think the name "meditation" is misleading. It's what we have left when we feel overwhelmed. Sit and breathe. It's interesting to try to do something so simple, so complicated.

CTDOCodebases2• 3 years ago

It's a practice that's best understood by doing with zero expectation.

ImaCake5• 3 years ago

After becoming a father and undertaking a major rewrite at work, I had fallen off my ‘good habits’ wagon and was having a very tough time returning to my earlier state

This doesn’t sound like failure to me, it sounds like the normal consequences of your life becoming busier. Of course it is hard to resume those habits, especially if your life is still stressful and busy.

Maybe we should consider our own limits and be more accepting of why we might fall into bad habits. This obsession with balance and productivity does a lot of damage.

As a final point, everyone has a different tolerance for stress and productivity. But western morals assume all people are equal and any failing are thus a moral failure. This harms those of us who, through random environment + genetics have different strengths and weaknesses. Many ADHDers go through life thinking of themselves as shit people because they can never even get close to the moral standard of balance.

TheHumanist2• 3 years ago

Every day is so frazzled and at the end of the day feels as though nothing has been accomplished. I hate having ADHD.

sam1r• 3 years ago

I can totally empathize and truly hope you are enveloped within a pro-marijuana community to shut your mind off at night.

ImaCake5• 3 years ago

Yeah, I was recently diagnosed. Its awful, but I do like that I no longer feel I should also feel bad that I struggle.

kiba• 3 years ago

Maybe we should consider our own limits and be more accepting of why we might fall into bad habits. This obsession with balance and productivity does a lot of damage.

Bad habits for me is something to escape, not to accept. Not doing good habits directly impact quality of life.

swatcoder2• 3 years ago

Most all of us have been there, but there’s a lot of overhead cost to holding that attitude.

Even if you ultimately want to see your life optimized for “quality” (whatever that means!), the road to getting there sometimes involves being less self-reflective.

For many ambitious and high-key people, letting go and accepting themselves as they are is the untested hypothesis that’s actually been holding them back.

vmoore• 3 years ago

the normal consequences of your life becoming busier

I embrace simplicity. The modern world has been designed in such a way that being busy is considered a badge of honor and we should be proud of our busyness. Being busy is a cult. And then there's the shadow work we all need to do behind the scenes like self-checkouts at supermarkets where we are not /paid/ to do that, but we do it anyway, along with many other examples I won't list out here.

swatcoder2• 3 years ago

I’m with you in simplicity and the cult of being busy.

And I even personally prefer the social moment of a cashier to performing self-checkout.

But from the “simplicity” perspective, it’s actually pretty reasonable to tally and tender your own purchases. It’s the kind of simple practical task we probably benefit from making time for.

If someone were to help you, of course they should get paid, but it’s only a quirk of history that that’s been the default.

billti• 3 years ago

I had a good streak going for a while with maintaining a good diet and exercise. Once you decide to take a break it's easy to stop though.

Recently I've had a project at work which is just enjoying and engrossing, so I'm "choosing" to be busy with it at all hours at the expensive of other "good" habits. (Spending long hours "in the zone", if you will). I take the motivating and energizing peaks at work when I can get them.

I found this audio book enjoyable and accessible. It's nothing earth-shattering, but it does shed some interesting light on the "busy" epidemic we feel surrounded by.

https://www.audible.com/pd/Addicted-to-Busy-Audiobook/178753...

emodendroket2• 3 years ago

Surely becoming a father is a reasonable reason to be busy.

andsoitis2• 3 years ago

shadow work we all need to do behind the scenes like self-checkouts at supermarkets where we are not /paid/

that doesn’t strike me as a good example. i’ll take unpaid checkout at the supermarket over hunting or growing food or making chocolate or making wine myself every single time.

verzeichnis2• 3 years ago

Sure, simplicity is great. At the same time, the comment was about parenting and how, once you have a couple extra mouths to feed at your table, experience shows, that ones life tends to become more occupied and thus busier. This is care work, not that bullshit busy work you are talking about. There is a difference.

krisys• 3 years ago

I apologise if my writing gave the impression that I was trying to do too much. I just wanted my sane life back - ability to do my duties without struggling a lot.

ImaCake5• 3 years ago

I don’t think it was your writing, I think your desire for sanity is fine :) but please be kind to yourself if you find it hard now you have a child to care for!

I think I was more incensed by skimming the introduction to Atomic Habits which is just the author boasting about themselves.

dmitriid• 3 years ago

This doesn’t sound like failure to me, it sounds like the normal consequences of your life becoming busier.

Reminds me of Marie Condo, who eased up on tidying, and it's no longer her top priority, after having kids: https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/30/entertainment/marie-kondo-sto...

mindhash2• 3 years ago

The book also mentions that people who had built a habit switched back to old habits under stress. It looks like author had this situation. Multiple parallel things led to an overwhelming routine and he fell off the waggon. Meditation helped hi. apply breaks and re think on every day decisions

raman162• 3 years ago

Just wanted to thank you for writing this. I recently had a child and I thought with discipline I would be able to maintain my pre-parent lifestyle but reality is quite distant from the ideal goal. I am making small improvements each week so I'm grateful for that.

ImaCake5• 3 years ago

From what I’ve seen it gets easier as they get older. But I also am told the pain is worth it, I hope your journey is good! :)

mejutoco2• 3 years ago

Maybe the author had to much pressure to build the habit back too quick, instead of slowly and being kind to themselves. They mention a lot of targets.

After becoming a father and undertaking a major rewrite at work

You mention moral failure. Although the author mentions deep work, my suspicion is the rewrite at work is taking long hours. This assumes certain values too, where work is first.

Here I am equipped with all the directions in the book, but I could not apply any of them

He could not do 1 min of meditation a day to build the habit? Or do one push up before showering?

From the blogpost I get the impression the author is prioritizing work and rationalizing it. At the same time, they are setting too ambitious targets in too many areas, instead of aiming for an incremental and sustainable habit.

ImaCake5• 3 years ago

Yeah I think this is a solid analysis of what is going wrong. While I disagree with the moral view of productivity, I do still think it is advisable and admirable to build up good habits.

rcarr• 3 years ago

Seems like the author missed:

https://jamesclear.com/how-to-break-a-bad-habit

theusus• 3 years ago

Is it a law that should work for everyone?

KVFinn2• 3 years ago

I tried so hard to make Atomic Habits work for me. It was helpful, but I found also it really helpful to realize places where it doesn't work for me and I can get a lot of benefit from leaning into a lack of consistency.

Basically the experience this YouTuber explains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2sS00egAzg&t=22s

jbverschoor• 3 years ago

Very similar for me

Tao3300• 3 years ago

I kept forgetting to read the damn book, and then I lost it.

Falkon1313• 3 years ago

Same with me, just couldn't get into the habit of reading a little bit of it each day.

I never got done reading 'Getting Things Done' either.

dack• 3 years ago

I found that the missing piece for me was simply being kinder to myself when I slip up on some habit. Like, I tell myself "chill out - so you didn't go to the gym today. You're set back by one day. Just try it tomorrow." Maybe it's similar to your leaning into lack of consistency.

Previously I was so hard on myself when I made mistakes or wasn't up to my own (very high) standards, that I would quit after a while because it was a horrible experience.

Now, no matter how many mistakes I make, I don't beat myself up about it and I keep trying the next day. And I am seeing that not only am I getting more things done, but I am actually enjoying life more day-to-day, which is the ultimate goal imo.

KVFinn2• 3 years ago

I found that the missing piece for me was simply being kinder to myself when I slip up on some habit. Like, I tell myself "chill out - so you didn't go to the gym today. You're set back by one day. Just try it tomorrow." Maybe it's similar to your leaning into lack of consistency.

I totally get what you are talking about too. Sometimes I remind myself: "If it's something that is worth doing, it's still worth doing badly (Or inconsistently)."

ahansen• 3 years ago

Great post. I feel like I've gone through a similar cycle, but I've found that journaling rather then meditation was what I was drawn to. Sitting down and writing about what I'm worried about and what my priorities are has proven to be a great balancing force in my life. Though I'm still not doing it too regularly, I notice quite a lot of mental clarity after a short session.

kras143• 3 years ago

So much of what you said resonated with me. I did try meditation, and it was very helpful. Many have the opinion that meditation is something mysterious and that it is hard to get what it means, but IMO, they should keep trying. Like any muscle, our brain needs training. Once you start seeing that you have control over your thoughts, I think you will "get it."

braindead_in• 3 years ago

Meditation has changed me profoundly as well. I started with 2 minutes and now I do at least 1 hour everyday. It actually all started with weed. From there to yoga, then meditation, then shrooms and finally spirituality and Nondualism. I not in control of anything anymore; that delusion has gone away. This journey of self discovery is turning out to be the greatest adventure of my life.

I can't even recognise the person I was 4 years ago. I've left that person far behind.

uquercia• 3 years ago

Getting completely changed after 4 years of life under influence of substances does not seem a perfect example…

2-718-281-8282• 3 years ago

Real life never produces perfect examples. If consumption of psycho active substances in her/his life is unhealthy and dependent then I would also question any conclusions about that journey. But as far as the comment goes she/he doesn't provide any information on that. For many people drugs are entry point to deeper reflection and there is nothing wrong about that especially if one leaves the drugs behind at some point.

Ambolia• 3 years ago

This works sometimes, but sometimes meditation brings up a lot of underlying problems, both mental and physical. That is good if you have the time and energy to deal with them, but if you don't it can complicate your life. Specially when you live in a society where meditation is not an engrained part of it, so you have no social structure that tells you which meditation experts are good and which are scams.

For me it brought up that I'm carrying a lot of tension and knots in the back and shoulders, which is a good thing to realise, but during meditation it would build up a lot of "pressure" or "tension" on my head, which according to some traditions is "bad". According to other traditions you just "power through" with more meditation. I have explored different things but reduced how much I meditate for now.

posharma• 3 years ago

The author says meditation is the solution and describes the effects it had on him. However, I didn't quite get the why (even if I ignore the how) - why did it work for him and will it work the same way for others? Besides, meditation itself is a habit and one that is the easiest to ignore as it doesn't bring immediate benefits (lacks instant gratification). This was great writing but for me it lacked the scientific rigor. It's great that it worked for the author. Kudos for that!

mindhash2• 3 years ago

In my experience in order to build or break a habit you must be able to tie the action to its immediate results. It can be placebo but in your mind that association must settle in. Meditation for a lot of people creates a state of calm afterwords. Mainly if you breathe at a lower that 6 breaths per minute. The calmness likely leads to better decisions and helps that way. It looked like the author has been overwhelmed with stresses of life. Meditation helped to apply breaks and steer the wheel.

vidyesh• 3 years ago

I inferred that meditation helped them to understand surface thoughts vs deep thoughts as generally surface thoughts are loud, immediate and what create bad habits.

By being able to discard those during meditation, they were able to work on deep thoughts and make enough time for those instead of getting occupied by the unnecessary(bad) habits.

Besides, meditation itself is a habit and one that is the easiest to ignore as it doesn't bring immediate benefits (lacks instant gratification)

But thats the crux of building good habits, one needs to teach themselves to not run for instant gratification. Precisely, this article. Atomic Habits try to teach that you to by various habit building techniques in the book. It teaches you how to harness this instant gratification idea to build good habits slowly yet in a way that appeals that part of your brain.

The author is trying to refute this exact thing, that these all work for a while until it all comes crashing down and it becomes really difficult to break away from bad habits.

sussexby• 3 years ago

In the ruthless monetisation of all things, it feels capitalism has done to our behaviour/thoughts/habits what it has done to any other resource - how can I maximise financial output from this thing at the cost of something else?

Battery farming and animal welfare.

Public transport and social mobility.

Processed food and nutritional value.

The human mind is just the next frontier where the battle to make everything you do something that is “valuable” where value = economic output.

I’m stressed because I’ve been in that place for too long. I started the year reading James Clear’s book only to immediately follow up with 4000 Weeks as the antidote.

Atomic habits are great if you want to push the boundaries of human achievement. The big realisation for me (and perhaps many of us) is “I’m not trying to do that”.

All the good books on performance, habits, marginal gains reference all the contexts where pushing boundaries is the normal state - Formula 1 pit crews working together to minimise time, Southwest Airlines and their 20min turn arounds, the British Cycling team and the pursuit of TdF/Olympic success.

My personal belief is we’re inviting in a dangerous logic to one of the few remaining bastions of our humanity. Float. Be free. Don’t force your mind to do something it cannot or does not want to do. Sure there’s a balance, but there is a threshold beyond which you’re deviating from your natural wants and wishes which equates to stress. Too much of that and you’re going to have a bad time.

camillomiller2• 3 years ago

As a mildly self-disciplined person myself, I really don’t understand why we need to be so fixated in becoming this mostly unattainable, predictable, hard to maintain, yet boring and repetitive super-version of ourselves. The only thing that’s good for is to show off to others how undisciplined and bad they are. Moreover atomic habits and all these “philosophies” are based on a profound misconception or rather a disingenuous marketing tenet—that your life is not “better” yet only because you haven’t followed this or that new improved step-by-step recipe for happiness. Life is a messy dynamic system constantly veering towards instability. It’s better enjoyed in its complicatedness and unpredictability, not by living by a strictly structured code of conduit that will make you feel like shit when the aforementioned messiness will inevitably throw a wrench into your illusion of a well-oiled machine.

pprotas• 3 years ago

Personally, it’s not about becoming boring or unpredictable. I wanted to learn more about self-discipline because my life consisted of work, trash food, scroll phone and sleep. I am a lazy person by nature, and this is what my life becomes if I don’t discipline myself. It made me unhappy!

The book actually gave me some practical tips on how to stop living a life like that and actually do the things I want to do. Stuff like working up the courage and routine to go to the gym in the morning, or spend my evenings on practicing my favorite hobbies instead of scrolling the phone. Finally, some discipline!

beaker52• 3 years ago

If I’ve learnt anything about myself, it’s that I’ll read the book, get motivated, enjoy a period of improvement, fall off the horse and be back here scrolling HN in bed in a few weeks.

The best improvement I’ve found is to just simply stop caring. Then I’m more happy, then it’s easier to do the things that need to do. The things that don’t get done? Well, they just weren’t meant to be - oops. Maybe one day, but forcing it won’t help.

chiefalchemist2• 3 years ago

Have you read Nir Eyal's "Indistractable"? Hopefully I'm getting my books right" but in that he talks about identity. That is, the power defining who / what you want to be indentified as / with. At the right moments, it's a powerful thought to have.

https://www.nirandfar.com/indistractable/

MavisBacon• 3 years ago

Yes this has been my experience of utilizing atomic habits. For me it was all about understanding the how and why of falling into or sustaining negative habits, as well as how the opposite is accomplished, and used this info to modify my most important habits- exercise, diet, and reading

I do get some of the OP blog poster’s anxieties about somehow optimizing every facet of one’s life using these techniques but I always approached atomic habits as making small but very meaningful changes over time and it’s been incredibly helpful for me

andsoitis2• 3 years ago

I really don’t understand why we need to be so fixated in becoming this mostly unattainable, predictable, hard to maintain, yet boring and repetitive super-version of ourselves.

it is because in the technological age, we have come to view ourselves as machines to optimize rather than humans with beautiful unpredictability, passion, intuition, creativity, not being hyper-productive, etc.

chiefalchemist2• 3 years ago

I'm not so sure it's the technology age per se, but instead a handful of people in this current age for whom "personal optimization" works well. They sell it. We buy it. And keep buying it even tho' it doesn't work all that well for the rest of us. False gods will do that to ya.

koonsolo• 3 years ago

If you're overweight, unhealthy, do no physical activity and always tired because you go to bed too late, well, maybe a bit of good habits would be welcome.

I highly doubt that such a person is happier than the healthy fit one.

Kiro• 3 years ago

I get happiness from strict routines and become depressed when they get messed up, and yet you tell me the latter is better. Maybe it is for you but we are all different.

camillomiller2• 3 years ago

My partner needs routines and positive habits and stability to avoid depression, so I can absolutely relate. It's just the marketing of ready-to-use, one-size-fit-all recipes for happiness I was bickering about. ;)

lee• 3 years ago

For me it, the drive to be more disciplined stems from the fact that I live my life so compulsively and I want to experience more things in life that require discipline.

As an example, video games and mindless doomscrolling eat up an inordinate number of hours. Hours that are precious and could be used towards a goal that I would feel proud of experiencing or achieving.

thenerdhead2• 3 years ago

Life is a messy dynamic system constantly veering towards instability. It’s better enjoyed in its complicatedness and unpredictability, not by living by a strictly structured code of conduit that will make you feel like shit when the aforementioned messiness will inevitably throw a wrench into your illusion of a well-oiled machine.

The whole idea of combatting nihilism is to overcome it. You do that by balancing chaos and order.

You are right that life is not "better" by trying to overcome. That there isn't a true recipe for happiness and thinking so is a fool's errand.

Nietzsche and John Stuart Mill had similar ideas that happiness is not the goal. But one feels happiness when resistance is being overcome. That happiness is not found, it is achieved.

ianburrell• 3 years ago

I find that habits help tame the chaos. Habits are automatic actions and they are nice for doing things without worrying about them. My morning routine is such a habit that have gotten it done on really bad days. But still flexible enough that can change it while traveling.

I think the problem is that people want habits like “be productive” when should have multiple habits like “check todo list in morning”. They also try to pull off big things like “exercise daily” or “eat healthy” when should have steps as habits. There are also other tools to get organized; both of these could be calendar events. Todo lists are great for non-automatic things, I’m not going to completely remember my packing list.

leobg7• 3 years ago

The author of that book has been writing about behavior for years. And yet when I once sent him a picture of B. F. Skinner, he didn’t know who that was.

If you really think you need to optimize yourself, I’d recommend to skip the millennial bestseller lists and to closer to the source.

A few recommendations:

Self Help Without the Hype (R. Epstein) Tiny Habits (BJ Fogg) Self-Directed Behavior: Self-Modification for Personal Adjustment (Watson/Tharp) Don't Shoot the Dog (Pryor)

Really, just the first one will likely be enough.

epups• 3 years ago

Skinner and behaviorism has not been relevant for the analysis of human behavior since 1959.

leobg7• 3 years ago

That is the mainstream view. I know. And yet books like Atomic Habits rank way up there in the bestseller lists.

Skinner is probably the most underestimated figure in 20th century science. His ideas are generating billions in value to this day. And yet the sentiment most people hold about him is the one you just shared.

I’m on my phone and can’t go into details. But the whole aspect of gamification - in games, social media, TikTok, productivity apps, learning apps - is very much OG Skinner. And ChatGPT reinforcement learning? Behaviorism applied to virtual agents.

leobg7• 3 years ago

BTW, relevant to OP’s question:

Skinner was the happiest, most productive, most creative person I've ever known, largely because he was so skilled at self-management.

That’s from the first book I mentioned.

kaushikc• 3 years ago

He very likely not be "irrelevant" for the foreseeable future when people speak about behaviour.

Handprint44693• 3 years ago

Is there any way to get the first book in e-book format? I only see options to buy a used physical copy, and international shipments to my country are... untrustworthy, at best.

leobg7• 3 years ago

Hm. Maybe get it from Anna’s Archive and send the author a tip if you like it. It’s an old book. And he’s responsive.

There is an article by the author that covers some of the topics of the book, which is freely available as a PDF:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1284070/pdf/jab...

duckmysick2• 3 years ago

And yet when I once sent him a picture of B. F. Skinner, he didn’t know who that was

I am familiar with Skinner and his work and I would also not recognize him from a photo. I also wouldn't recognize Freud, Jung, Pavlov, or Zimbardo from their pictures either. Am I missing something?

leobg7• 3 years ago

What does "am familiar" mean? You have heard "of" them, or you have read their work?

With Skinner, even if you just read a biography, I would imagine that it's hard that one would not want to Google more about his stuff... his "Baby In A Box" thing, pigeons playing ping-ping, 1960s learning machines, etc.. And there are several very interesting YouTube videos about these things, many originals from the 1950s-1980s. If one is even just mildly interested in learning more about the kind of behavior modification that Skinner popularized, it seems really odd to me how one could not look at the man himself.

Besides, there are photos in most biographies. [1]

I don't expect the person on the street to know who Skinner is. But if someone makes their living writing blog posts and books about Skinnerian ideas, I do expect them to have done their homework.

When I was interested in Jung, I actually went to Küsnacht. Even met his grandson. Watched all the video interviews with him that still exist. And I'm not a journalist at all. Just deeply curious when I encounter someone with ideas that interest me.

But perhaps that's exactly my point:

Being successful in writing and marketing books about behavior modification and actually modifying behavior are two completely different sets of skills.

OG Skinner one the one hand and these popular books based on his ideas on the other hand are, to me, polar opposites:

Skinner did the experiments and found the things that worked. But he was terrible at anything one could consider marketing or self-promotion. The Aircrib story is the best example. Good stuff; terrible packaging.

A book on today's bestseller list about behavior modification that's written by an author who, apparently, has never even read a biography of Skinner, or watched a single interview with him, is the very opposite. Great packaging; zero original work.

Skinner, to me, is Zero to One. Self-Help books repackaging his ideas are One to Many. It's totally fine that this second category exists. Yet if people struggle with the second category of material, I want to encourage them to go looking closer to the source.

Like in programming, where you may go from using someone else's paid API to using an open source library. It increases your understanding of the problem space, makes you feel more confident in your abilities, and, most important of all, makes you appreciate the work of all those that came before you.

[1] B.F. Skinner: A Life, by Daniel W. Bjork is amazing. I think it would be a fun read even to someone not interested in psychology per se, given the "hacker mindset", natural curiosity and "make do" mentality that Skinner exemplified.

revskill• 3 years ago

Just ask ChatGPT, it said "mental stimulation" is a bad habit:

Mental stimulation refers to engaging in activities that challenge the brain and promote cognitive function. It can involve a wide range of activities that are intellectually stimulating and require active mental engagement. Some examples of mental stimulation include:

- Learning a new skill or language

- Playing brain games, such as Sudoku or crossword puzzles

- Reading books, newspapers, or magazines

- Engaging in creative activities, such as painting or writing

- Participating in educational programs or classes

- Solving problems and puzzles

- Engaging in debates or discussions

- Playing musical instruments or listening to music

- Learning a new sport or physical activity

- Traveling to new places and experiencing different cultures

sokoloff• 3 years ago

What part of that suggests it was/is a bad habit?

k__• 3 years ago

I learned the reason all these systems didn't work for me was that I had ADHD my whole life, but only got diagnosed in my late 30s.

ravagat• 3 years ago

I think it's a great book for average people. I read it and found it to be a basic breakdown greatly simplified.

That's when I realised it wasn't working quite as well as it had the first time.

This is exactly what the book is great at. From the discussions I've been a part of, the book did a great job of really breaking down and creating a system for folks to achieve things.

The author did note that the books' success is part of the rise of the industry its a part of and that's one thing I think a lot of people who discuss this book (for good or bad) overlook. Whatever the ROI has been for the book will always be individually contextual.

martindbp• 3 years ago

Changing habits have become an insurmountable task. In my 20s and early 30s I'd go on diets, start going to the gym, learn a new language, work on side projects. Since having a child I'm just struggling getting enough sleep and keeping the apartment clean, there's no energy left for reinventing myself or changing habits... It also becomes harder and harder to start something because from experience I know I'll eventually fall off the wagon. Hopefully it gets better once kids are more self sufficient...

en3r0• 3 years ago

It will, but it might take more will power and discipline to make those things happen than it used to.

jbjbjbjb• 3 years ago

That’s what James Clear would call a keystone habit

SergeAx• 3 years ago

I just can't shake off the feeling that all those "be productive" techniques are nothing else than means to force oneself to do something one don't want at all. Human psyche will take a serious tall on these activities, even if one have a positive reinforcement system well set around them.

2-718-281-8282• 3 years ago

Life is often to a large part about doing sth you don't want at all but you simply have to do or face consequences which are harsher than those somethings. Or surprisingly not that bad at all and you come to realize your model of life was lacking. Either way - no technique designed for becoming more disciplined will help you distinguish between what is worth doing or not. I put all my eggs into the meditation basket. Meditation makes me less anxious, my mind clearer and more focused. All those qualities help me understand better what I want and need and then act upon it even if doing so is uncomfortable.

lumb63• 3 years ago

Most people I know consider me a “disciplined” person. I’m a fitness junkie who has very rarely missed a workout in the last 10 years. I maintain a not-as-strict-as-I’d-like-but-seemingly-better-than-most diet. I prioritize habits that help me or that I enjoy like sleep and reading. There are days I do not want to. There are days when I am tempted. There are days when I am depressed, busy, etc. Things get in the way. I am not perfect, and do not claim to be.

That said, what helps me with adherence, and I know this will sound overly simplistic and un-helpful, is I just do the things. I have a friend who is also into fitness, and we agree that the most important workouts to do are the ones you don’t want to do. They build the discipline to do things you don’t want to in the moment, in order to satisfy your higher, long term goals. And we agree that the best way to do those workouts is to…do them. Go put on some gym clothes and get to the gym, and your mind and body will hardly argue with you that it doesn’t want to work out anymore.

Some of the ability to do that, I expect, comes from the fact that I am an “all or nothing” person. I don’t do moderation well. I do well when I can do something with all my intensity. For instance, when dieting, I find it much easier to adhere to an incredibly strict and mundane diet than to try to enjoy my food.

This ties into the idea of having and/or making the circumstances in which one can be disciplined. There is an excellent post here [0] that discusses what we need psychologically in order to actually do things. Stress, other priorities, distractions, etc., all impede our capabilities. For the author of this blog post, they found that meditation cleared their mind and that is what enabled them to lower their stress and return to better habits. They also discuss 16:8 IF, which I also do and find to be a huge boost to my focus (I joke that eating is my kryptonite). I also find having a rigorous schedule helps me; the activities I (in my mind) “have” to do, e.g. work out, work, etc., are not optional: they’re built in. I do not know why these techniques work, and there are many others which do as well. I hypothesize that these little and easy “mini habits” or tweaks to one’s way of living facilitate accomplishing goals.

As an aside, discipline is an area that I want to work on in my life! There are a few books I’d like to read. One is Discipline Equals Freedom. I think the incredibly hard headed military guys (see also David Goggins) are the ones closer to the right track (or at least what makes sense to me) than the sciencey types who theorycraft infinite nudges to encourage people who “want” to be disciplined to be disciplined. I am no fan of Nike, but “just do it” really resonates with me.

[0] https://macrofactorapp.com/behavior-change/?ck_subscriber_id...

TipiKoivisto• 3 years ago

Atomic Habits gives the illusion that changing habits is easy and will change your life - that's why the book probably sells. But it's BS like most marketing and stories.

Changing habits will change your life, but you need to learn the process and know yourself. You learn the best when you fail, but that's when people give up trying. The whole idea of habit formation is that it sucks to do something different and new... Until it's not new anymore.

The author certainly did the most biggest mistake: Too much, too fast. => Focus only on Meditation. Bingo!

One habit at the time, build the habit as slowly as possible. Everyone can do it. But they... Just don't.

Disclosure: Founder of Habinator Health Coach app.

wsxaz• 3 years ago

I often meditate before bed, and I have to admit that it is very useful for improving sleep quality

boovii• 3 years ago

Does your meditation technique differ from the author's? If yes, would you please describe it.

icoder• 3 years ago

The term missing in this story, although described between the lines almost perfectly, as I see it, is willpower. There's a book about it with the same title.

thenerdhead2• 3 years ago

After becoming a father and undertaking a major rewrite at work, I had fallen off my ‘good habits’ wagon and was having a very tough time returning to my earlier state.

Becoming a father makes you have to practice discipline everyday. You don't get time to just waste time like you used to. You have to schedule it.

While Atomic Habits is a good book and best seller for a reason, the change we go through as individuals is much more telling of successful sticking habits.

Atomic Habits just makes you a little more aware which can also be done through any awareness practice (meditation, journaling, reading, etc).

After that, I never bothered to track any of them.

After a certain point, your habits become...habit. You don't need to track them. That's because you're constantly aware of them and you've outgrown habit formation books.

I wrote an adjacent piece about what happens when your life operating system receives a breaking change like having kids:

https://jondouglas.dev/lifes-operating-system/

frodowtf• 3 years ago

Regarding the WhatsApp point: I recently archived all chats except the one with my gf. Now I don't get notifications but can opt-in to read stuff if I want.

freshbakedbread• 3 years ago

One completely free iOS app that I found to be helpful is Mindfulness Coach, developed by the US department of veteran affairs. It was made to help veterans and service members with PTSD. It offers a collection of timed, very minimal, very easy to follow guided mindfulness sessions.

Why 'Atomic Habits' may not be working for you

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