Omega-3s: Are “Brain-Boosting” Effects Scientifically Backed?

https://abouttolearn.substack.com/p/omega-3s-are-brain-boosting-effects

by mililitre • 3 years ago

125 158 3 years ago

abouttolearn.substack.com

An intriguing read that summarises the findings of multiple sources. Makes one ponder the true effectiveness of other supplements on the market, and whether the $100B+ industry is built on hearsay and deception.

rogerkirkness• 3 years ago

Started my career at a supplement company and it is definitely heresy, deception, and weird derivatives of protein and caffeine.

ttyyzz• 3 years ago

Selling water / sugar that has been "marketed differently" (read: they lie to you) is a huge industry, yes.

E.g. "Vitamin Water", all kinds of supplements marketed in the fitness industry, even https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy.

Placebo is a strong thing.

ejb999• 3 years ago

I agree - its hearsay and deception - vitamins and nutrients and dietary supplements are a huge, profit driven, industries - they are not your friend trying to improve your health - they are trying to empty your wallet and nothing else.

Spooky23• 3 years ago

No pondering necessary. That entire industry is based on making implications with statements and lobbying to avoid any potential accountability.

AppleBananaPie2• 3 years ago

Multiple sources can hardly be considered an effective bar to decide if something as a whole is good or bad for you. The author completely misses major pieces of literature around these and citing something that is critical for you body as 'probably good for you' while not covering a single instance of health problems from deficiencies makes it hard to take this seriously.

iillexial• 3 years ago

The author completely misses major pieces of literature

Can you provide links?

wolfi1• 3 years ago

reminds me of lecithin which was marketed in the 80s as helpful for the aging brain, turns out, lecithin does not cross the Blood-Brain barrier

EMM_3862• 3 years ago

The thing is, there are simply too many variables.

Using your example of lecithin, there are numerous studies that show it is effective in improving/reversing fatty liver disease.

https://www.bcm.edu/news/lecithin-component-may-reduce-fatty...

There have been other studies that establish a link between liver health and alzheimers, even that protein from the liver can cause Alzheimer's disease in the brain.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/09/210914152531.h...

That study aims to prove that high fat content in the liver could cause Azlheimer's. So indirectly, taking lecithin may help the brain, even though it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier!

Too many variables.

LinuxBender2• 3 years ago

For what it's worth, 1 egg contains about 3.3 grams of lecithin. Provided one is not averse to eating eggs there should be no need to take it in supplement form. Eggs have the best form of lecithin.

n2j3• 3 years ago

cost of 100 omega 3 capsules (in .gr): ~10 euros, fish and nuts cost about 18 euros per kilo and tend to spoil.

pprotas• 3 years ago

Omega 3 capsules can also spoil, right?

humbleferret2• 3 years ago

Omega 3 capsules can also spoil, right?

Yes, they do. An old study suggests an average of 20% of omega-3 fish oil products had excessive oxidation. Or in other words, rancid.

https://academic.oup.com/nutritionreviews/article/80/1/138/6...

ben_w• 3 years ago

Fish are famous for spoiling quickly, but nuts are not.

The_Colonel• 3 years ago

Eating a lot of fish also brings some risks from microplastic and other pollution, especially if you don't pay attention to where it comes from.

ilostmyshoes2• 3 years ago

You you can just buy cold pressed flax oil and supplement with that. ~30 USD for ~1L iirc and it has an absolute assload of ALA (omega3)

Hemp seed oil is a good one for omega6 but usually people get enough 6 from diet and 3 is the one we need to boost to get the 3:6 ratio up

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid_ratio_in_food

newaccount742• 3 years ago

I like flax oil, but it spoils very quickly. I have trouble going through 250ml before it goes rancid.

johnyzee3• 3 years ago

ALA must be converted to EPA and DHA, which it does at less than 10% efficiency, so you'd need to consume an assload of it, too. Your best bet is still fish(oil).

simonh3• 3 years ago

So basically once your body has all the nutrients it needs to grow or make the things it needs to make, it makes them. Even more extra stuff it doesn’t need, it doesn’t use. Makes sense.

This also appears to apply to the immune system. There’s zero evidence that supplements that are supposed to “boost your immune system” do any such thing. Yes your immune system functions best if you have good nutrition, but that’s it. Even better nutrition just isn’t a thing.

Side rant, sorry, but I had this conversation with a relative during covid, she was touting supplements to ‘boost her immune system’. There’s one way we have found that really does actually boost your immune system, that works with your natural defences by training them specifically to fight a particular disease. Vaccination.

weavie• 3 years ago

I guess the argument would be that you don't know for sure whether your diet does provide all the nutrients your body needs, so supplements could be used to fill in any gaps. The assumption being that your body will just dispose of any excess safely.

AmericanChopper• 3 years ago

If you spend enough time looking into what micronutrients you need, you eventually figure out that it is actually pretty hard to get them all through diet. But there is essentially no end to the scientifically backed list of beneficial supplements you might choose to take, so if you want to start, there’s not really a rational place to stop, and it can spiral out of control quite quickly. I think the better approach is just to eat a varied diet.

300bps2• 3 years ago

The assumption being that your body will just dispose of any excess safely.

Well worded. From my personal experience, this assumption is dangerous.

About 20 years ago I was having elevated AST/ALT liver enzymes three tests in a row indicating liver damage. Doctor ordered every test to see what was going on but everything came up negative. She asked me if I took a multivitamin which I did. She told me to stop.

Haven’t had elevated liver enzymes since.

simonh3• 3 years ago

That’s a perfectly fair point, I took Vitamin D during lockdown because I wasn’t getting enough sunlight. I’m just saying that it makes sense that beyond satisfying your body’s needs there’s no higher plane of health that supplements will take you to.

EMM_3862• 3 years ago

The assumption being that your body will just dispose of any excess safely.

Not always. Fat-soluable vitamins (A, D, E, and K) will build up in fat tissue and can lead to toxicity.

Cthulhu_• 3 years ago

That's the sales pitch for multivitamins and the like; they talk you into a problem but they provide the solution.

Certain vitamins your body will dispose of safely (like vitamin C), but there's others that just build up until they kill you; there's the case of Xavier Mertz [0] who was theorized to have died from an excess of vitamin A after eating his sled dogs' livers.

But the basic rule is: just eat normally / "a balanced diet"; you likely don't need supplements unless you have absorption issues or stick to a specific diet (e.g. vegetarianism / veganism, soylent / diet shakes, or the same thing every day, like the 14 year old who only ate chips and ended up (partially) blind due to a vitamin deficiency [1])

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xavier_Mertz

[1] https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/L19-0361, https://www.cbsnews.com/news/british-teenager-went-blind-fro...

godshatter• 3 years ago

There is also the triage theory of aging where the idea is that when micronutrient levels are low (not low enough to cause acute symptoms but below the recommended daily allowance), they are triaged and used where needed (such as ATP production) at the expense of being used normally. The theory is that this can cause long-term problems such as neural decay, cancer, and other signs of aging.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1693790/

amerkhalid• 3 years ago

Or, in my case, I am 100% certain that my diet is missing many nutrients as I rarely eat fruits or vegetables. I take various supplements and so far things seems to be okay (based on yearly physical and blood work).

newsclues• 3 years ago

I think the "boost your immune system" things are just common deficiencies in modern people.

If most people don't get enough vitamin C or D in regular life, then the advice to boost their immune system with a sufficient does to be non-deficient would function to boost their immune system to a normally healthy level.

Dalewyn• 3 years ago

Milk sold in the US almost always has vitamin D added to it, because presumably Americans don't get enough sunlight to produce sufficient amounts.

Instant noodles sold in Japan almost always have vitamins B1 and B2 added to them, for presumably similar reasons.

treeman795• 3 years ago

You will want k3 if you take d2. Highly recommend getting tested for D deficiency.

Source. I used to have crippling migraines almost every day. I don’t anymore.

cullenking• 3 years ago

I recently got a broad panel of tests done, and found out I was Vitamin D deficient. This was a big surprise to me because I live in the high desert of central oregon, which gets lots of sun even in the winter. I am very active and outside everyday. It is cold however, so my arms are always covered. We are 45 degrees north of the equator.

I was at 20 ng/mL which is considered deficient. 3 weeks of 5,000 IU a day supplementation (162lbs, fit, active male) brought me up to 31 ng/mL, which is just barely up from deficient. I upped to 10,000 IU a day for 1 week, dropped back to 5,000 IU a day, and will test again in two weeks. Everyone is different, but hopefully this gives some helpful numbers for anyone considering supplementing, and whether or not the paltry 1,000 IU commonly advised is adequate for people living at a higher latitude in the winter.

simonh3• 3 years ago

I don’t think that’s what a lot of people think boosting means. Certainly the family member I’m talking about, and the circle of people she associates with and sends breathlessly excited emails about, think these supplements will protect them from pretty much everything. That they don’t just have healthy immune systems, but boosted ones that literally will protect them from coronavirus, flu, even cancer. That’s why I don’t like that term, it’s become a cult byword.

treeman795• 3 years ago

Lot of issues can be autoimmune related. Goal is to calm down the immune system. Not boost it. This is where basics like getting away from sugar are so important.

kimmik2• 3 years ago

Immune system isn’t just too much or too little. Can’t simplify it to that. People with autoimmunity are also immunesuppressed at baseline.

phkahler• 3 years ago

> So basically once your body has all the nutrients it needs to grow or make the things it needs to make, it makes them. Even more extra stuff it doesn’t need, it doesn’t use. Makes sense.

I find it really common when researching the benefits of X to run across articles citing research that "X does nothing in healthy people" seemingly to discredit the idea that taking X is a good idea. But if you have a deficiency that research isn't really relevant. Gotta read the qualifiers.

lr4444lr• 3 years ago

Well, that and high quality, sufficient sleep. That is way harder as you age, and a worthwhile aim of lifestyle modification or supplementation to support it.

cainxinth• 3 years ago

I’ve often said that when discussing vitamins, in particular, the general public thinks of them incorrectly like stackable video game power ups. In reality, they are more analogous to essential pieces of the game’s code.

You don’t get super powers by taking a whole bunch, and things start malfunctioning if you lack them.

seper83• 3 years ago

There is a shit ton of evidence supporting vitamin d3 to fight covid...

dgacmu3• 3 years ago

There's not, though. There's a ton of evidence that vitamin d _correlates_ with COVID outcomes, but this is vitamin d's superpower: it correlates with good outcomes for just about everything, but nearly every time there's a good high quality study, it turns out to not be causative. A bunch of those vitamin d and COVID studies were fraudulent.

Vitamin d levels are an excellent marker of good health and they can help predict outcomes but supplementing vitamin d doesn't improve those outcomes. Regretfully. (Except rickets, of course.)

johnyzee3• 3 years ago

This is why omega-3s are effective. Your body depends on them to function optimally, and they are found in only a very few food sources, pretty much only fish. The omega-3s found in nuts and plants can convert to the most critical fatty acids, but about ten times less efficiently.

schwartzworld• 3 years ago

Boost your immune system is so stupid. Which part is it boosting? Fever is an immune response.

Or maybe they mean "increase white blood cell count"?

tgv• 3 years ago

Does lack of it have an effect? I couldn't find that in the list.

mistercow2• 3 years ago

I don’t understand the author’s reading of the literature they cite. They refer to “isolated studies” and then link to a systematic review of 25 studies. They also linked to the same review twice for both memory and attention, which I assume is a mistake, because the review only supports the claim about memory.

But none of these studies are about “brain-boosting”. They’re about preventing or reversing cognitive decline, which is perhaps related, but ultimately different.

No fault to the author of this post for being unable to find evidence focused on healthy adults; anyone who has looked into the evidence around nootropics can tell you that pretty much nobody wants to study that. But it’s important to be clear about what the evidence actually says, and what it doesn’t speak to.

mililitre• 3 years ago

Thanks for the feedback: will update the second link to point to the correct source, and I think "isolated findings" would be a more accurate word here.

I agree that many of the studies are about cognitive decline, but there's also research on improving cognitive function, which would probably be closer to "brain boosting" category you mention.

For example, from the first source I listed, "Six trials (including 1757 participants) assessed executive function, 5 trials (including 1426 participants) assessed effects of LCn3 on processing speed, and 11 (including 5698 participants) assessed memory. Meta-analysis suggested little or no effect for all of these measures (as well as the subcategories of memory, all moderate- or low-quality evidence; see Supplementary Material for further information)."

bearcream673• 3 years ago

"Current evidence supports the finding that omega-3 PUFAs with EPA ≥ 60% at a dosage of ≤1 g/d would have beneficial effects on depression." https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-019-0515-5

Is this considered brain boosting?

permo-w3• 3 years ago

why is it that no one wants to study the effects of nootropics?

Mtinie2• 3 years ago

I have two hypotheses that came to mind when I read your question:

1. It’s a hard problem to quantify effects on cognitive functioning provided by nootropic supplements. We still have so much to learn about brain function;

2. Nootropics offer patent holders opportunities to make obscene amounts of money. As long as those supplements are (generally) safe to consume. That level of review requires R&D spending, but too much investigation may inadvertently reveal that these money-making “miracle” products are far less effective than the manufacturers claim.

crazypyro• 3 years ago

Because people buy it without it being proven and proving anything related to cognitive ability is both difficult and expensive.

This makes doing studies on their effectiveness a neutral to losing scenario.

Either:

The nootropic works. Great, you probably spent a decent amount of money and... The results are still going to be hard to quantify and measure. It may not be good enough results to convince people who already weren't convinced. Might as well not do it and keep making money off people who buy it without scientific studies.

The nootropic doesn't work. Shit. Bury the results and never publish or risk losing a money maker.

omginternets• 3 years ago

Because most of the time, interest in a topic is a function of plausibility. Most nootropics have little or nothing to indicate they work — not even a hint of something plausible.

Of course, it’s possible the scientific community is overlooking something promising. This has happened before. But that’s a dangerous bet for a career scientist to take.

Practically, if you want nootropics that work, and if you want to consume something whose long term side-effects are actually known, get an adderall prescription. (Or, stop trying to neurotically optimize every detail of your life and go outside.)

boringg• 3 years ago

Way too many variables to control for which makes any scientific findings incredibly difficult to validate. Tough to make a career on it and way to many conflict of interests.

It's too bad because if someone could legitimately find conclusive results that would be really helpful.

It feels like its a part of the medical space that the mainstream part of the medical community has shunned which has allowed for a lot of less scrupulous individuals to take up the mantel (See all the podcasts etc). It's too bad because there is probably something to it but its tough to validate/quantify.

manuelabeledo• 3 years ago

"no one" is a bit of an overstatement.

If I run a quick search on PubMed, there are a handful focused on cognitive enhancement and other effects on healthy brains, e.g. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35366192/

captainbland• 3 years ago

I imagine there aren't many scientists who want to enable their own line of work descending into a doping arms race like some sports can in the absence of anti-doping regulations.

Edit: or if they do catch on to something, a moral panic breaking out and having to do drugs tests on the regular or something

mistercow2• 3 years ago

I think it boils down to a combination of:

1) It's hard to sell the output of this research. Your health insurance isn't going to pay $100 a day to make a healthy person smarter.

2) The output of your research is going to be low priority for regulatory approval

3) As both result and cause of the above, there's virtually no existing funding for this kind of research

4) If you succeed, you're going to spark an immediate furor over fairness and the morality of human enhancement (which I'm not saying I personally agree with, but it will happen)

reb• 3 years ago

The person you're replying wrote no one wants to study the effects of nootropics in healthy adults.

Sick people with insurance, particularly chronically ill ones, or those with illnesses that threaten their lives, are where I'd imagine the majority of money is made. You could probably argue treating the ill is more psychologically impactful work too. That's going to skew where researcher's focus their attention, especially if their work is funded by private industry.

abeppu2• 3 years ago

anyone who has looked into the evidence around nootropics can tell you that pretty much nobody wants to study that

There's a class of areas where lots of non-experts are interested, but doing studies large enough to detect modest effect sizes with high confidence is too expensive. Nutrition can do either large survey studies, or small controlled experiments. Exercise researchers often have to work with a small number of untrained participants. I would love a citizen science platform for large studies of low-risk interventions operated like a multi-armed bandit setup. "Oh, you're interested improving working memory? Follow regimen X for 90 days and do this working memory test every week." I feel like the hardest parts are getting participants to adhere to their assigned intervention, and preventing participants with a pre-existing agenda from joining.

karpierz• 3 years ago

I feel like the hardest parts are getting participants to adhere to their assigned intervention, and preventing participants with a pre-existing agenda from joining.

This combined with perverse incentives are why it's not possible. Non-experts with the resources to solve these problems are generally trying to sell you something, and aren't particularly interested in the truth.

mamonster• 3 years ago

I mean, that's kind of the gist of supplements as a whole, you only take them if you cannot replicate it using a normal diet/lifestyle.

The biggest example for this IMO is Vitamin D. If you can spend time in the Sun regularly every day, you won't ever need to touch vitamin D. But how realistic is that for most people ?

The only supplement I've encountered so far that has a noticeable effect that cannot be reproduced with any realistic diet is creatine.

nervousvarun3• 3 years ago

Creatine...would say especially if you're male, is such a game-changer. Recently got my dad who is in his 70s to start taking it and it's been enormously positive for him. Really good stuff.

Personally think it's probably equally valuable for women but can't get my wife to take it (worried about the bloating which is a thing).

To your point it would be very difficult to get the equivalent creatine from your diet. Would take a lot of steak.

rex-mundi• 3 years ago

What benefits did you Dad get from it?

taeric2• 3 years ago

Did you look at any of the studies that showed placebo effects comparable to creatine? It is insane, as we know the mechanism for how creatine does its thing. Still, the social effects of being told it is effective seems to be the dominant reason it is as effective as it is.

mancerayder• 3 years ago

I lift weights and do other exercise but never took Creatine. Are there benefits that aren't tied to exercise performance specifically as a goal ?

Does it have downsides in the body?

vassy• 3 years ago

I was reading your comment and wanted to comment about creatine until I saw it added at the end. With over 20 years of gym training and taking massive amounts of supplements, I totally agree. Apart from protein if you can't get enough from food, I find that everything else is either useless or not worth the price.

mjburgess3• 3 years ago

One of the major problems translating "science to advice" is the need to specify a risk/reward model for the person being advised.

If P(TheScience) = 0.01, but P(GeneralInjury|TheScience) = 0.00000000000...1, and P(GeneralBenefit|TheScience) = 0.5 .... then most people should do "what the science says".

Of course there's P(MyBenefit|TheScience) and P(MyInjury|TheScience) which makes rendering general advise often impossible/unethical.

There's a class of people (eg., neurodivergent, autoimmune problems, etc.) for whom P(MyInjury|...) is "anti-correlated" with P(GeneralInjury|...)

...which leads to more pronounced mistrust regarding medical interventions.

chickenimprint2• 3 years ago

What do you mean by P(TheScience) ?

mjburgess3• 3 years ago

The confidence we have that the relevant scientific prescriptions are true.

anoplus2• 3 years ago

I like experimenting with different lifestyles to see how I feel. Most of the times there are too many variables to make conclusions. Anyway, I tried going vegetarian for few weeks, then introduced fish to diet and felt noticeably better. Then, I tried remove fish and take fish oil instead. Felt absolutely no benefits. At-least feeling wise. I repeated this experiment multiple times so I am sure it isn't coincidence

anthlax4• 3 years ago

And how did you control for placebo?

anoplus2• 3 years ago

No control. I don't believe I am affected by placebo.

mark_l_watson• 3 years ago

I am not an expert in nutrition, but I still have my opinions: I try to consume a lot of Omega 3 via the food I eat: chia seeds, walnuts, etc. I avoid eating foods, like the fish Tilapia, that contain a lot of Omega 6.

I do take one daily Omega 3 supplement I get from my optometrist for a particular vision problem.

azubinski• 3 years ago

There was a strange country where the pure Omega-3 "fish fat" was extremely popular, almost every child was fed this in childhood.

Then these kids grew up. And they became tens of millions of idiots who put cans of water in front of TVs so that some charlatan would "charge" this water.

So this Omega-3 is proven not to help the brain. It maybe even harmful. The second assertion has not yet been refuted.

dennis_jeeves1• 3 years ago

So this Omega-3 is proven not to help the brain. It maybe even harmful. The second assertion has not yet been refuted.

So I don't recollect all sources but it does appear that for people who understand the nuances ( of which there are not many) it indeed could be harmful.

One source: https://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fishoil.shtml

daniel_iversen• 3 years ago

Interesting. But omega-3 oils are still good for the joints at least aren’t they, does anyone know?

francisofascii• 3 years ago

They also have antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties that might help brain function.

I think people take omega-3s for the antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties. That's the benefit. The "brain boosting" effects, if any, are just a possible bonus.

nabla92• 3 years ago

Metaphor I learned from a biochemist:

You are in a boat with holes in it (holes in this metaphor are nutritional deficiencies).

To prevent the boat from sinking you patch the holes under waterline starting from the largest. The boat continues to sink until all holes under the waterline are patched. You don't stop sinking by patching one hole again and again. After you have patched all holes under the waterline you can prepare for storm (old age, sickness) and patch holes above the waterline. You should start from the lowest and go upward.

lessons:

1. Measure. Blood test can determine if you have deficiencies you need to fix.

2. Once you have fixed one deficiency, fixing it by taking more does not help.

3. Fancy nutrients (phytonutrients, Omega-3) have very tiny effect size if it exists at all. They would be at the bottom of any list (healthy diet, exercise, sleep, right weight). If you don't get enough sleep your immune system and cognition are compromised and supplements don't compensate.

----

ps. Body can synthesize omega-3 if there is enough α-linolenic acid (ALA) available. Aging may impair body's ability to make omega−3 fatty acids from ALA. _IF_ this is the case, omega-3 supplements _may_ help.

tablespoon3• 3 years ago

ps. Body can synthesize omega-3 if there is enough α-linolenic acid (ALA) available.

IIRC, ALA is an Omega 3, just one the human body doesn't use for much. The body can synthesize EPA and DHA (which it does use), but humans are pretty bad at that. It's totally conceivable that the rate of synthesis evolved in the context of regular dietary intake of EPA/DHA, so never needed to provide for all the body's needs.

nabla92• 3 years ago

You are correct. Thank you.

AppleBananaPie2• 3 years ago

There are a lot of things that supplements are claimed to help but clearly don't. That being said there are things that have promising scientific research about benefits and this article lacks any information on EPA omega 3s separate from the others which ultimately makes me disregard any conclusion of omega 3s as a whole.

Look into the potential effects of EPA omega 3s specifically on depression and the potential benefits compared to or combined with anti-depressants. Andrew Huberman had it in his episode on anxiety and depression I think.

The impact of omega 3s on adhd is also an interesting area of research.

Using a click bait "brain-boosting" description completely misses the point of many studies that show that certain diets low in different omega 3s cause different problems for people.

tablespoon3• 3 years ago

Anecdotally, when I first started taking (6 normal-strength pills a day) of fish oil in college, I quite unexpectedly noticed my "field of view" expanded when I was driving. Previously I'd been exclusively focused on a smallish area immediately in front my my car, but after a few months of Omega 3s, I noticed I was "noticing" and taking into account traffic that was much further down the street.

Though I kinda suspect that was the result of curing a deficiency, because I plateaued and didn't notice other improvements after continued supplementation. It was also very early in the fish oil/Omega 3 craze, so I suspect the food up to that point was generally more deficient in it (e.g. no feed chickens flax to get "Omega 3" eggs).

dreamoffire• 3 years ago

Doesn't this sound like an inexperienced driver gaining more experience or was there little driving in between?

tablespoon3• 3 years ago

Doesn't this sound like an inexperienced driver gaining more experience or was there little driving in between?

Maybe it sounds that way, but it wasn't.

I'd already been driving for 5+ years by that time, and the change happened only after a couple of months of supplementation.

I also used to frequently "zone out" in a particular way during daily life, which also went away around the same time.

sudosteph• 3 years ago

Interesting, I actually had an extremely similar experience, except it was when I first took ADHD medicine, and I noticed it most strongly while navigating through the city by foot. "Field of View" is a good sort of description for it though, it was like the amount of information I could passively perceive about my immediate surroundings just increased dramatically.

ravenstine• 3 years ago

Even if supplementing omega 3 had any meaningful benefit, enough of those supplements are either spoiled or tainted with things like aldehydes that I decided to stop taking them.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30529885/

Better to just eat meat and eggs.

osigurdson• 3 years ago

I've always thought that these types of studies / meta-analysis are conducted in a backward manner. A study is proposed, funded, performed - possibly with a particular objective in mind. The results are published (possibly used in various marketing materials), then almost enviably, methods and rationale are questioned by others post hoc. The end result of the exercise is often no knowledge gained with diminishing public trust in science.

Instead what we should do, is to come up with a study design first, gain broad consensus that the study, if rigorously conducted in accordance to the design, would yield statistically meaningful results.

The challenge here is many studies would likely be infeasible (requiring millions of people or hundreds of years in order to attain a statistically valid result - or both). However, that is useful in it's own right as it would help us to direct resources at studies that do have a hope of increasing knowledge. Infeasible studies will just have to wait until we can accurately simulate biological phenomena.

meindnoch• 3 years ago

Anecdotal experience: I was taking an SNRI medication, and when I tried an omega-3 supplement it gave me those unmistakeable brain zaps you get when weaning off of antidepressants. So it definitely did something to my brain!

By the way, paradoxically, people discontinuing antidepressants usually take omega-3 hoping that it will lessen their brain zaps...

PragmaticPulp• 3 years ago

One of the interesting things you pick up on from reading supplement blogs and fitness forums is that a lot of people have negative reactions to Omega 3 supplements. If you search for “omega-3 depression” you find a lot of stories from people whose depression started or worsened with omega-3 supplements, and resolved later.

This is a particularly interesting find given that the placebo effect would be expected to go in the opposite direction: Many of these people started the supplement because they thought it was going to improve their health, not worsen it. It can take a very long time to recognize the connection between the supplement and side effects.

Several other supplements are common contributors to depressive symptoms. Choline supplements often make irritability and depression worse. This finding isn’t surprising given that cholinergic signaling has been known to be associated with depression for decades and many powerful antidepressants are anticholinergic. Yet you can find a lot of supplement sellers pushing choline supplements as something that automatically improves brain health.

bearcream673• 3 years ago

I'm curious as to what papers mention this! Quickly pulling up one related appears to clearly support EPA omega 3 supplementation being a beneficial tool to help with depression.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-019-0515-5

sinenomine2• 3 years ago

Regardless of personal reports you mention, choline is a very interesting substance due to demonstrated long-term attention benefits in children after being administered to their mothers during pregnancy: https://faseb.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1096/fj.2021012...

This is as close to "life-changing" as it gets with these substances.

rhacker• 3 years ago

Supplements are great because at worst they work like a placebo. There is a ton of evidence that placebos actually work better than real FDA approved stuff (in some cases) because there is a metric tonne of crap we don't understand about the brain itself and it's ability to heal the body.

At best they actually affect the gut microbiome in some way (mostly probiotics) which, in many cases, are also backed by clinical studies that show has effects (placebo controlled). We'll be finding out in the coming years that the gut microbiome is the "second brain" or the brain controlling the brain. Everything from mood disorders to major diseases like ALS to auto-immunity of the thyroid may start with good or bad bacteria in our systems.

This is the cutting edge research, nothing in a book in the last 3 years.

obruchez• 3 years ago

I'd say that, at worst, they can be bad for you. You can overdose some of them. And if you're talking about herbal supplements, it's probably even worse than that, i.e. some of them can actively be bad for you (e.g. St. John's wort if you're taking other medications). And then, there's the problem of quality. Some supplements contain substances they shouldn't contain (e.g. heavy metals or others).

I'm a fan/user of supplements/nootropics, but they shouldn't be taken lightly.

jack_pp2• 3 years ago

Anecdotally, I've read a long time ago that fish oil should help with sleep but I didn't start supplementing. Fast forward to this summer, I had big sleep problems, I couldn't keep a normal schedule and when I woke up I had terrible brain fog, took my like 2-3h in the morning to wake up properly and be able to function.

Then I started taking fish oil, I got it by the bottle because I've read pills could have rancid oil and I figured if I directly taste it I will know if it's fresh/well kept.

My sleep problems disappeared overnight.

ralfd• 3 years ago

What brand/product did you buy?

jack_pp2• 3 years ago

This brand, might be different flavour. https://lysi.com/consumer-products/liquid-cod-liver-oil

I put like 5-10ml in a shot glass and fill the rest with water, just chug it and rinse the glass with water a few times. This way, I can barely taste it and have no fish oil aftertaste, the flavor they add might help too

sinenomine2• 3 years ago

Regardless of the potential nootropic effect discussed in the blogpost, the circulatory system (heart) benefits are pretty well studied and proven: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-22370-2 though require considerable doses of the DHA or EHA.

bazmattaz• 3 years ago

Anecdotal evidence time!

I take 3 high strength omega 3 tablets every day. I feel like it sharpens my mind and improves my focus. It might be a placebo but I know when I go off them (sometimes I have a few off months for no real reason) I get bad brain fog and my performance at work slips. With omegas i feel like I sleep better and recover from the gym quicker

moremetadata• 3 years ago

Is this an obedience to authority and child abuse study? You'd have to read the article and then click through on the links to see, unless my internet access is being MITM.

Edit. Didnt see any mention of neutrophils and the effect EPA has on their size and effectiveness, which can also increase brain function in a round about way and no mention of its testosterone enhancing ways which through its mild aromatase inhibition, which then contradicts the oestrogen-choline pathway and the effect choline has on the brain. Contradictions everywhere.

Omega-3s: Are “Brain-Boosting” Effects Scientifically Backed?

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