Life as a door-to-door salesman

https://www.tampabay.com/narratives/2022/11/17/whats-it-like-work-door-door-sales-job/

by acqbu • 4 years ago

139 88 4 years ago

jgalt212• 4 years ago

The Globesman by Documentary Now! is just genius. They door to door globe salesmen at one point lament the atlas salesman keeps beating them to new territory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81m8vygf_8Q

amadeuspagel• 4 years ago

Well that must mean that the atlases are more up to date then the globes.

cateblanchett• 4 years ago

it's based on the documentary 'the salesman', but you don't even need to see both. they did a perfect job of parodying.

version_five• 4 years ago

The guy in this article will be able to turn his skill into a 7 figure job easily if he goes into enterprise software sales.

nunez• 4 years ago

Not necessarily.

Rejection/objection handling and sheer persistence aside, I'm unsure if many of the sales tactics employed in door-to-door or high-pressure sales cross over into enterprise software sales.

From what I've seen, high-pressure sales relies heavily on manipulation (i.e. invoking feelings and emotions within the customer to drive them towards an outcome) over value, and encourage volume (i.e. grinding, hitting as many houses/people as you can) over quality (i.e. qualifying, qualifying again, then maintaining those relationships for as long as possible, providing value all throughout). They're the same techniques that people high on MLM pyramids or closers in call centers employ. FUD can go a long way.

Also, enterprise sales cycles are much, much longer. Six months is fast in this space. The deal sizes are much larger, so the process is worth it, but because high-pressure sales typically deals with much smaller amounts, closing fast is key.

More emphatic people can probably make the switch easily, but the less-sophisticated hustlers and pseudo-grifters would get outed pretty fast. Interestingly, the reporter of this article stated that the salesman they followed is interested in going into real estate and has already dabbled in crypto, where those personalities tend to do very well.

Also, many of the sales folks that I've interacted with did not have high-pressure sales backgrounds. In fact, many of them were engineers at one point or another!

markstos• 4 years ago

How high pressure is solar sales? It often makes economic sense.

FrontierPsych2• 4 years ago

Everyone in sales can follow their own way. They can do high pressure sales if they wish.

However, it has been proven over and over that having discussions with people is the statistically best way to make a sale. Be actually interested in the person. Ask questions.

This guy took the time and actually took interest in HER:

Liam pointed out a Navy license plate on a car in the driveway.

“My sister is in the Navy,” the woman said.

“OK, well, thank you for your service, and happy Veterans Day,” he said. “Fun fact, I’ve had a relative in every American war, dating back to the Revolution.”

Something softened, ever so slightly.

This is not a cheap tactic to try to "get" someone.

I remember one time I was talking to a prospect over months, he told me that he and his wife were expecting a child in May. I called him at the end of May and we did our regular talk and I asked if his baby was born. Yes, a healthy boy. So I sent him a congratulation card with a hand-written note congratulating him and his wife. I called back in a few more weeks, and first thing he said was, "I got your congratulation card. Nobody else sent me one, even people I've known for 25 years." I got his order that call.

Some might think that this is a cheap tactic on my part to get an emotional response to manipulate the guy. I'm not going to lie and say that I don't think that, but it is in an intellectual manner only. I actually was very happy he and his wife had a healthy baby. I do get emotionally involved with my clients, same as a lot of other business owners do. Maybe like a hair salon person with her or his clients. I've had clients who I saw 3 times per week for years on end. It's impossible not to form a personal relationship.

Even if it is a one-call type of sale, I still like to have a deeper conversation and learn about them, whether they buy or not. I've learned a lot of cool stuff just by talking to people, even if they don't buy.

jpm_sd• 4 years ago

Door-to-door rooftop solar array sales are mostly a scam, it's a high-pressure low-information sales tactic and a terrible deal for the average homeowner.

Installation issues are shockingly common. Lots of new, poorly sealed holes in the roof being the biggest concern.

Here's a review I found of Spartan (employer of the man profiled above): https://www.facebook.com/dodgyjanet/posts/10158647440200887

In leaving this review I hope to save one family the frustration and financial pain that working with Alex Lake of Spartan Solar has caused us. Please feel free to reach out if you want specific details. We did not do enough research - and ended up fronting the money for the project on a loan that gave a kickback to Spartan Solar. In conversations with us (and in all their marketing literature), Spartan solar states that you will not pay anything until your solar panels are up and running. For us - this is not the case at all. The project is 10 months old and we are paying both hundreds of dollars a month for electricity and the full monthly payment for the loan (which inconveniently removes any leverage we might have with the installer if we had dealt with them directly). We have been paying both bills for the last six months - Spartan has ignored my complaints about this misleading advertising to date. Our Solar panels were installed 8 months ago and are still not functioning. This is a sellers market and it is hard to get time with the installer, the city, and utility company - so I’m not surprised about this insane delay- but I am literally doing 100% of the work I was assured I would not need to do if I worked with Spartan Solar. I was assured we wouldn’t need to worry about coordinating these events and the Spartan team would have our backs. Due to communication problems between Spartan and their subcontractors about the need for a new main electricity panel our project was delayed multiple months. Two days ago we finally received permission to operate our panels. When we turned on the switch, they are not working however Spartan have not returned our calls/emails about this issue and we have had to chase the subcontractor to try and fix the situation. The subcontractors are unable to come and look at the problem until next month, and so we are still stuck paying for a non-working solar system and racking up large electricity bills in the hot California summer months. I’m today’s market, solar installations are a commodity and the most important way to offer value to a customer is through effective communication. Here is where we were frustrated most with this whole experience. Make sure you do business with a company listed on the better business bureau.

NikolaNovak5• 4 years ago

That's the thing. The article makes them implicitly sound like heroes - they sacrificed SO much for a dream, the dream of serving the customers. They're solar evangelists. The new generation of motivated do gooders. Wish everybody's child was like that!

But it's bs, I'm sorry. There's a reason nobody trusts door to door sales people. There's reason they target the elderly. There's a reason why they have a book-rack of sales techniques. There's a reason they're pushy and persistent and chameleons. And they get a significant paycheque for no actual service to the client.

I work from home with my father in law who's a curmudgeony grouch, yet once a week I have to leave a work call as I overhear them penetrating his defences. And then three weeks later there's an article in the local newspaper about X number of elderly scammed by door to door salespeople selling driveway repeir or duct cleaning or solar panels or roof replacement or whatever.

There is NO alignment of interest between you and the door to door salesperson. They have one goal and one goal only and that is making the sale. Nothing else is real, they're not your new buddy, and they will not be there for you after you sign.

(source - various ; I've been a home owner, have had family scammed, read a lot, and oh yeah, was a poor immigrant and went for several trainings to be door to door sales person and saw the insides of the machine)

bwi4• 4 years ago

My grandmother suffered Alzheimer’s, but wasn’t ready to leave her home, so my uncle moved in with her.

She called him at work to ask for her checkbook… two men had knocked on her door, convinced her that a tree on her property needed to be cut down, proceeded to cut it and leave it there, then demanded $400.

Uncle rushed home and ran these guys off, refusing to pay, but it was a dangerous scam. All it would have taken is one to distract her while the other helped himself inside the house.

Viliam12342• 4 years ago

they will not be there for you after you sign.

This is an important part. Any promises about help in future, if they are not in writing, they mean nothing. What actually happens when you later call the person, is either they no longer work there (and no, the person who inherited their place is not going to honor the promises they made, you must have misunderstood), or they tell you that the condition for their help is you need to buy another expensive product first.

Ancalagon• 4 years ago

I can echo your sentiment. My install is seriously delayed both by the city permits and the installers (who’ve now broken two panels). Luckily I only paid 25% upfront and the other 75% will be handed over on completion. So I’m sitting pretty with a new roof and uninstalled panels and while they have to figure out the cost issue. I’m only able to say this because my deal was to pay upfront without financing.

For context, install and inspection were supposed to be done in July. It is now nearly December.

MerelyMortal• 4 years ago

Lawyer up?

greatpostman2• 4 years ago

I have a friend that makes 450k running a door to door solar panel sales team. Two years ago he was making about minimum wage. There’s a huge premium for being willing to knock on strangers doors

NikolaNovak5• 4 years ago

There's always big money in immoral shady dealings.

Sorry, I know that's snarky and rude. And there's definitely a big gray line of morality in life. They're not actively murdering anybody. Not directly. But their moral framework by definition is drastically different than mine - we have chosen our own spots on that gray line and they're incompatible.

(I've been exposed to various sides of that line, including being recruited and going through brainwashing I mean training for various door to door sales gigs).

NineStarPoint• 4 years ago

It’s not inherently immoral to be in sales. If you actually do believe that solar panels are a good investment for a house and believe the company you’re working for does good work, working to inform other people of this would be from your view a moral positive. In practice of course it is easy to end up lying to increase your paycheck, or fooling yourself into believing your company is good because your paycheck relies on it. But if someone chooses a good company and doesn’t lie to potential clients, I think that’s fine.

greatpostman2• 4 years ago

Immoral? What? It’s humiliating and confrontational, but not immoral

lazide3• 4 years ago

A lot of people (overall) benefit by having someone overcome the friction people have built into doing things to provide them interesting options. Sometimes even the people buying.

Sales doesn’t have to be, and in larger places often isn’t, immoral.

Without it, we’d all frankly be a whole lot poorer in many ways.

But hot damn, the immoral ones sure do seem to make a lot of money fast. At least before the cops show up.

p0zero2• 4 years ago

You mean there’s a huge premium for being willing to scam people and lie to their faces? How old are you?

notch656a2• 4 years ago

The people that buy these things tend to be the elderly. I shamefully worked as a telemarketer when I got my work permit as a child; almost no one at their top mental acuity game is buying this shit on a whim from these kind of techniques. It's pretty sad. And almost all the 'salesmen' were high on xanax and other anti-anxiety medication to deal with both the rejection and to drown away their feelings about what they were doing.

tedmiston2• 4 years ago

What is the scam here exactly? Inflated equipment prices? Distorted ROI? Something else?

fijiaarone2• 4 years ago

Your friend makes good money running a sales team — in other words he doesn’t knock on doors.

rs999gti3• 4 years ago

I respect the hustle. By my home is my refuge, I don’t like ads when I browse the web, why do I want salesmen and religious types bothering me at home?

gt565k• 4 years ago

Who falls for these door to door salesmen’s Bs? I hate these guys knocking on my door. Really just wanna punch them in the face.

If I needed something Id go and buy it, don’t need some pushy sleazy salesman trying to trick me.

These door to door sales are so bad for the consumer there are even laws in states that state you have 3 days to back out of a contract signed during a door to door sale.

kurtreed2• 4 years ago

Thankfully it's illegal now in some jurisdictions.

weberer• 4 years ago

I hate these guys knocking on my door.

You can just put up a "No solicitors" sign on your front gate and they'll keep walking.

rurp• 4 years ago

We must live in very different places. I have never seen those signs make a bit of difference.

nickthegreek• 4 years ago

Lol, not in the city my friend. They will literally argue with me about how what they are doing isnlt solicitation. They truly believe that after starting out arguing with a complete stranger, they will somehow rope me into a sell. I told him he was soliciting, he ignored my sign and wanted him to off my property. He refused, I asked for his name and then he tried to fight me. I almost went out and purchased a gun because some unhinged individual was mad at me and had my address.

Retric• 4 years ago

Oddly in theory I agree, but both myself and my parents where quite happy with door to door salesman purchases.

Door to door sales doesn’t need to be a scam. It’s perfectly viable to calculate when individual subdivisions are the right age to need new siding and then send a sales guy around. Similarly selling solar roofs are exactly the kind of thing people are likely to be happy with but don’t consider. If the sales guy is also knowledgeable enough to give a solid estimate and talk about financing options it’s cheaper for the company than sending people to drive around and make lots of estimates.

At the other end, you also have people running outright scams or selling dubious products at insane markups.

bombcar2• 4 years ago

The only “legit” door2door I’ve seen is when a contractor will be in the neighborhood working on one house and he has someone mention it to the other houses if they want to get in on it (think tree trimming, etc) at a discount because they’re already there.

jawns• 4 years ago

If I needed something I'd go and buy it, don't need some pushy sleazy salesman trying to trick me.

In 2021, more than $285 billion was spent on advertising in the United States. Why? Because while you might think you have an "If I needed something I'd go and buy it" mentality, the evidence has clearly shown that most people can be influenced to buy things other than what they already recognize as a need.

Door-to-door salesmen are a form of advertisement of services, and for certain industries they can be more effective than print ads, billboards, etc.

Not that I necessarily like having my day interrupted for a sales pitch; I almost invariably don't answer or turn them away.

But I'm just saying that if you have ever responded to any form of advertisement, the "If I needed something I'd go and buy it" line is probably missing the mark.

OkayPhysicist• 4 years ago

Best I can tell, advertising is a whale game. Much like how mobile gaming is predicated on a percent or so of users who will sink an ungodly amount of money into skinner boxes, I suspect advertising has a very large effect on the habits of a relatively small fraction of the population. So it's quite possible that the average person could say, truthfully, "If I needed something I'd go and buy it", while advertising is still wildly profitable.

the_only_law• 4 years ago

Really just wanna punch them in the face.

I had half the mind to when some asshole decided to show up and bang at my door in the evening, hours after typical business hours and asked me to take some survey. If someone is knocking in my door in the evening, it better be fucking important.

notch656a2• 4 years ago

Most commonly the elderly and mentally disabled. Occasionally they have a retirement or come into a windfall, it's just a matter of statistics until the door-to-door guy finds them and parts them of it before the next guy does or before someone responsible takes control of their finances.

lostdog• 4 years ago

These salespeople push scammy loans, so they even hurt the already-poor elderly.

Imagine getting up in the morning to bankrupt someone's grandma for the rest of their life like this guy from the article.

spoils19• 4 years ago

This is the problem with modern America. Door to door sales used to be an honored tradition and a way for more Americans to get to know each other intimately. The rise of the internet has eroded this sacred social connection we used to all share.

ReactiveJelly• 4 years ago

When was it honored, and what was honorable about it?

Was this about the time when they were selling encyclopedias?

durnygbur• 4 years ago

Over here we have spam calls selling solar panels. Every time the cunts claim they obtained the number legally from a data broker. My prediction is that our local parcel locker provider sells phone numbers, or recruitment platforms, one never knows what is in their TOS. Then of course there are usual suspects - FAANG.

rootusrootus2• 4 years ago

Argh, I hate the solar salesmen. We get them all the time during the warm season. I have a hard time going the rude route and just shutting the door on them, but I'm improved a lot in shutting down their arguments with three sentences of my own stats. Pretty quickly they know I've run the numbers, figured out why it doesn't make sense for me, and I've shut down all arguments they want to make. Usually they just say "Wow, it sounds like you're already given this a lot of thought." Umm, yeah, yeah I have. I wanted the numbers to work. I tried to convince myself. Even with Project Solar pricing, it does't work for me. So it sure as hell won't work if I pay your prices that give you such a nice commission.

fourch• 4 years ago

Cold salespeople are such scum. They take advantage of telephones are doorbells, which can interrupt your focus at any time, and are really intended only for people that you actually know.

Thankfully we now have caller ID and the ability to block unknown callers. Now we need the same for doorbells!

VBprogrammer• 4 years ago

Isn't that what Ring and a dozen other smart doorbells are made for?

rs999gti3• 4 years ago

Put a no solicitation sign on your door.

I used to get bothered by Jehovahs Witnesses and salesmen, but a ‘No Solicitation’ sticker on my front door was the best improvement I’ve done to my house

tedmiston2• 4 years ago

Nothing wrong with just not answering. How long are they really going to stand there waiting?

lazide3• 4 years ago

Some people in polite parts of the country have a hard time ending a conversation if the other party won’t let them/follow the local social protocol (not being sarcastic).

rootusrootus2• 4 years ago

When I was a bachelor, that was my strategy. Still annoying, but at least I avoided the confrontation. Now I have a couple youngish kids and more often than not knocks at the door mean friends coming over, so they end up answering without checking first and then I get called to deal with the stranger at the door.

shiftpgdn• 4 years ago

I just tell them I already signed a contract with the last solar salesman and they’re coming tomorrow to install it.

JohnFen3• 4 years ago

Tell them you're broke.

brookst• 4 years ago

I empathize with them. It’s an NP hard job.

iBotPeaches• 4 years ago

Not sure of the legality of it, but I've enjoyed just recording the solar sales folks to knock on my door and turning it into a blog. I enjoy researching the claims brought forward to see how many of them I can debunk.

blamazon• 4 years ago

Tangential, but one of my favorite types of signs reads as follows:

"No solicitation - except tamale lady"

Could also say empanada or burrito or whichever local food item is available informally door to door by someone that probably reminds you of your grandmother.

I see these signs in the American southwest and every time my day is made; so delightful. Everyone has time for tamale lady.

jwsteigerwalt2• 4 years ago

I’ve been a software developer building systems to support door-to-door sales professionals for 15 years. Great to see journalism that shows the legitimacy of the profession.

RestlessAPI• 4 years ago

legitimacy of the profession

High pressure sales and a willingness to betray common politeness does not lend it self to "legitimacy". Its scummy.

jwsteigerwalt2• 4 years ago

There are scummy players all over sales. In some industries, a minority of bad players give the entire group a bad name.

fijiaarone2• 4 years ago

Notice he’s looking for old ladies who can be easily manipulated.

bigmattystyles• 4 years ago

They’re even getting aggressive in Costco with their little booth. It doesn’t make for a pleasant shopping experience; it feels like Costco should tell them that customers must initiate and that they can’t come up to you and start talking about solar.

kangaroozach• 4 years ago

Project Solar just raised Series A to effectively cut out the sales rep. I put one in my roof at 1/3 the cost of other companies… even less the cost of Tesla which is priced pretty well.

But Urban Compass initially tried to cut out the overpaid realtor before eventually raising VC to be the largest realtor themselves. Let’s see if Project Solar pivots to become what they have initially set out to replace.

not_the_fda• 4 years ago

Not much has changed. A great movie on the profession is Salesman https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064921/

kcartlidge• 4 years ago

Back in my youth I did door-to-door sales in the North-West of England. Pay wasn't great, but in terms of pure pleasure it was the best job I ever did.

That part of the country is known for friendliness, and I shared their accent, and they were simpler times, all of which combined to make the days a joy despite the random weather. Every day I'd have interesting conversations on the door, and on many days I'd get invited in for a cup of tea and more chat. Not just with lonely elderly people either.

As a way to get over social awkwardness, build self-confidence, and even just learn how to respect and understand a variety of beliefs, opinions, and approaches, it was life-changing.

I could never do it now; to earn anywhere near enough to replace my tech wage I'd probably have to compromise on some of my personal red lines. But not a moment is regretted.

Life as a door-to-door salesman

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