Want to live in a van down by the river? Ford has a new vehicle for that

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/03/ford-transit-trail-2023-targets-boom-in-rv-van-life.html

by cebert • 4 years ago

139 217 4 years ago

Love the title and the tiny home on wheels trend. So much creativity and craftsmanship to learn from. It’s a wonderful video wormhole imho. Would do it in a heartbeat if just graduating uni.

Not sure how many under 35 will get the joke…like the fascination with the CD-Rom in the Jurassic Park Ford Explorer.

danuker2• 4 years ago

I'm 30, from Romania, and I didn't get the joke. Care to explain?

maxfurman• 4 years ago

There's an old Saturday Night Live bit[0] about a motivational speaker who eventually admits that his life sucks and he lives in a van down by the river. Pretty funny, although I suppose I've spoiled it for you.

[0] https://youtu.be/Xv2VIEY9-A8

ksherlock• 4 years ago

You'll have plenty of time to get the joke when you're living in a van down by the river.

astrange• 4 years ago

Maybe this is the spiritual successor to the Honda S-MX, a micro-minivan designed for having sex in the back.

https://jalopnik.com/honda-once-made-a-car-specifically-for-...

nkozyra• 4 years ago

I know it's the Gawker-level quality but all of those ads and not one picture of the car? Yeesh.

speps• 4 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_S-MX

neogodless• 4 years ago

Click-through to this https://middle-edge.jp/articles/I0000827 if you want to see photos including the fold flat seating.

hourago2• 4 years ago

I can see that living in a van is for the poorest and for the high-earners. Ones get it out of necessity, the others as a luxury.

It cannot be a mainstream solution, thou. Even if it just about sewage this type of lifestyle does not scale to large crowds of people.

Burning Man attendees are probably the target audience for this kind of vehicle.

danuker2• 4 years ago

Burning Man attendees are large crowds of people. Sewage will be a problem.

hourago2• 4 years ago

Money talks. The average Burning Man attendee: "Burning Man census reveals the average burner has a household income of up to $100,000 is 35, male, white and will spend nearly $2,500."

Burning Man requires a lot of work in advance, it is not people going down to live by a river.

https://burningman.org/event/preparation/playa-living/human-...

emiliobumachar• 4 years ago

Young middle class people without kids could, in principle, adopt the poor people solution and pocket the savings. But that's not how people work. Only the rich can differentiate themselves enough to escape the stigma.

francisofascii• 4 years ago

The target audience is the RV crowd who don't want have an RV, or the camping crowd who don't want to always camp. RVs are expensive and a pain to drive, and camping is tough in bad weather. Lots of retired or close to retired people go on weekend camping trips to the mountains. Of course, Alex Honnold also made living in a van cool.

shkkmo5• 4 years ago

You don't have to be a high earner to make it work, just a remote job and the desire to do it. I meet lot's of people who definitely aren't high earners but are living this life by choice.

carabiner3• 4 years ago

Chris Farley is Ford CEO Jim Farley's cousin? Whaaat?

eatonphil• 4 years ago

TIL. They look identical too.

jesuscript3• 4 years ago

I always imagined that in a world of self driving fuel efficient cars, you could just tell your car to make rounds around highways, effectively living in a pod for days at a time. Like those long train rides.

rl3• 4 years ago

I think that’ll be the future soon enough, only caveat being the thing may broadside semis or run off cliffs from time to time because the manufacturer cheaped out on sensors and rigorous engineering.

But hey, that’s why we need an intermodal private pod transport system. Purchase and decorate your pod to taste, then live and work in it as poorly-paid drivers ferry you and several other pods (each lacking line of sight on the other) around the world.

I look forward to blog posts filled with live, detailed accounts of startups losing pods (with their indignant customers inside them) at various rail and shipping depots.

jesuscript3• 4 years ago

It’s not too far fetched. With remote work and effectively virtual avatars of your fake self via social media, we are all in a stationary pod now days, your little box somewhere that doesn’t move. In our own little spaceships. Whether the box moves around is kind of a logistical thing (is it cheaper and more sustainable than say, the absurd real estate/rent bonanza? Might be).

It sounds depressing, but, I don’t know. In a far enough future, I wouldn’t mind a flying spaceship to work from. Might land it from time to time at a beach.

It’s a little bit of a redefinition of property. Han Solos property wasn’t actual land. It was the Millennium Falcon and unobstructed Space. Luckily for Americans, we have a shit ton of highways. So we have the space part, just not the spaceships (those little pods that move around with auto pilot).

ip26• 4 years ago

Imagine the traffic when every person in the country has the same brilliant idea.

jesuscript3• 4 years ago

The self driving cars wouldn’t drive at speeds humans would drive at. If anything, the windows would probably be blinded out with some fake moving image to simulate speed.

incone123• 4 years ago

Early episode of the Dr Who reboot (Gridlock) featured a society of people living in their vehicles in a perpetual traffic jam.

Your premise was also central to a Judge Dredd story but I don't know the title.

kotaKat2• 4 years ago

So, wait. This is just a nearly $70,000+ base (and significantly higher optioned) Transit... that you still have to build all of the actual camper systems into?

Seems like a significant price for an empty van. I can only imagine the upfit costs post-van would run you up into the "why didn't I buy a class B from the start" territory.

ChuckNorris894• 4 years ago

Seems like a significant price for an empty van.

Not if your target audience is hippie remote workers that make good money and want to travel around the country.

kotaKat2• 4 years ago

Yeah, but for $115k you can get an entry model Winnebago Class B[1] and not have to sink the time and labor into something that will still have resale value once you get bored of it.

I would never, ever want to buy someone else's "project" RV when they decide to get rid of it. You don't know what corners were cut there. (I know I'm hypocritical here, I know RVs aren't always the best built think in Elkheart (or Forest City), but at least an RV has an expected standard of things you get.)

[1] https://cpq.winnebago.com/solis-pocket/36A/exterior

somehnacct37572• 4 years ago

The secret behind the van life influencers is that a nice loadout is easily six figures and they are rich people 'slumming it' for fun.

While the price point on this trim is high compared to base, they are just capturing some of the value previously going to aftermarket body shops.

shkkmo5• 4 years ago

I've seen a lot of pretty nice builds that were in the low to mid 5 figures, but those are generally conversions done by an owner rather than a shop and aren't starting with a brand new vehicle.

samsolomon• 4 years ago

I think the pricing varies. I have a friend who bought a used RAM van for around $15k and put $25k into converting it into a home—and a pretty nice one. $40k is a lot of money, but she left her apartment and started living in the van full-time. So I think there are always trade-offs.

I am skeptical at how many people are investing a house down payment into a Sprinter van. There are plenty of people out there doing it for a fraction of the cost.

prawn2• 4 years ago

There would be people spending almost $100k and they can probably justify it. A gap year trip would be $x0k. Doing it in your 30s, you can probably justify spending more. Travel around for 6-24 months, and every night you're boondocking and cooking cheap in the vehicle saves you $100-200.

But you're right that there are definitely people doing it cheaper. We're an Australian family who bought an old bus in the US for $3500 and then spent $5-7k on fitting it out across two trips. We sold a half-share to another Australian and recouped some of the money. Car hire alone would be thousands per month and motels right now are not cheap, so it's worked for us. Gas costs remain the enduring issue, however, especially if you're moving around a lot to see things and not just living in a localised area.

Whoever makes an EV-based van chassis to build upon will sell loads.

protomyth• 4 years ago

In general, the van-based motor homes seem to get to six figures really quickly and are more expensive than their bigger cousins.

Do it yourselfers can do it cheaper.

fy20• 4 years ago

Vans are usually a lot better equipped than traditional motorhomes. Before vanlife, a motorhome (in Europe; I don't know about the US) was basically just for driving from home to a campsite, without the hassle of towing a caravan (travel trailer). The batteries were maybe enough to power the lights while you cook dinner and the only way to charge them was by hooking up to mains. The water tank was tiny, barely enough water to wash up, and the toilet needed to be emptied every other day.

Today an off-grid van will have two or three ways of charging the batteries, enough water to last a week, a toilet that needs emptying once every few months, and a heater and enough insulation to comfortably camp in the next big freeze. Traditional manufacturers are starting to realise some of these things, but most are still primarily designed to be used on a campsite with a mains hookup.

vl3• 4 years ago

How much do you think cars cost in US?

This price is directly compatible to well-configured F-150 or Mercedes Sprinter.

Any equipped class B is way more than this. I know people who installed stuff themselves and saved bunch of cost this way.

defrost3• 4 years ago

If you're not prepared to go full 6x6 G-Class, Unimog, Pinzgauer, or Hagglund mod you can always settle for an Oka [1] or even an Isuzu [2].

Camping by rivers (and crossing them) is serious mum.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fchq6F-gKkQ

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhrJCpc9lxM

grecy2• 4 years ago

eh, I turned my Jeep into a house on wheels on the cheap (DIY), then drove it all the way around Africa over three years, living in it full time. 54,000 miles through 35 countries. [1]

The cost of the vehicle AND the entire trip (ALL expenses) was only a touch more than the barebones van in the article.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sLy5NEr-Hg

defrost3• 4 years ago

I'm in Australia, a great many people retire to a few years in some kind of camping rig - single body or vehicle plus trailer or ... (bus plus trailer with boat plus small car and motor bikes, all ingeneouly towed | stacked).

Outside of the main cities many rural people work across a big area, I grew up in the Kimberley and spent a decade or so in global geophysical exploration across all the continents and many countries - I can get by with a swag but I do like a good minimal fit out :-)

Your jeep looks pretty tidy - clearly did the job!.

and then there's always the bike option (a fellow W.Australian):

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dHUosjKQQ0

bertil• 4 years ago

I’m disappointed they didn’t leverage the expectations to have that van electric. There are now several prototypes that prove that vans have enough surface to charge with solar panels (and some extensions) and be fully off-grid.

learn_more3• 4 years ago

Solar charging can add only approximately 3 miles of range per hour of full sunlight charging. Too slow for the intended purpose.

conorcleary2• 4 years ago

Uhh that sounds pretty damn good to someone parked in a Walmart parking lot with no plotted next destination.

chris_st• 4 years ago

I think gp meant that you can get enough electricity to live off-grid, that is, powering appliances, not powering the van itself.

D13Fd2• 4 years ago

So you can save something like $10 of gas per day off sitting in the sun? Sounds pretty good for the intended use.

That giant battery could potentially power your climate control and appliances etc when off grid. And if you run down the battery by accident, you won’t be stuck for long.

kragen9• 4 years ago

If that's true, 6 hours per day of sunlight gets you 30 km of driving distance per day. That's faster than walking, and more importantly, it's plenty of distance to find someplace new to park every day so you can avoid annoying sedentists who get suspicious of the new van in their neighborhood.

AtlasBarfed2• 4 years ago

Fold-out array + extra ones on the ground next to it?

3 miles per hour is 40 miles per day. You stay in a place for three days off grid you can probably drive back. And bottomless power for cooking, heat, internet/starlink, etc.

My dream is an EV RV that has airline-level highway self driving and starlink+solar panels. I'd sell everything and live in that.

Kon-Peki• 4 years ago

I’m disappointed they didn’t leverage the expectations to have that van electric.

Don't worry about it. Ford sells an electric version of the Transit van. Every single new piece of this ready-to-convert van will have a part number that you can order at every Ford dealer on earth. Once everything is available, someone with the cash to burn is going to figure out what works together and provide a list so you can make your own without wasting money.

The article says that this will cost $15k more than a base Transit passenger van. I'm not sure that is a good apples-to-apples comparison, but whatever. Again, once it's available, people are going to figure out whether it's a better deal to buy the whole van or just the parts that are useful to you.

amelius• 4 years ago

... for small people.

nimbius• 4 years ago

I was recently motorcycle camping a few weeks ago and noticed a ton of sprinters and transits that had been tricked out into european style motor homes. Im an american, and a master diesel tech by trade, so i had to ask how much one of these things goes for. I nearly dropped my Folgers when i learned a Winnebago Travato (basically a ford van) will run you more than $150,000 new.

most used three-axle full-size rv's start around 80k. these things seem like a grift to screw millennials out of what little cash they had in the first place.

ianai• 4 years ago

I think a friend of mine just spent 200k on a new mobile home. I’ve heard plenty of examples of similarly expensive mobile homes.

watwut2• 4 years ago

But mobile home is entirely different use case. They don't move at all or move only rarely.

learn_more3• 4 years ago

Travato is based on a Dodge Promaster.

Van based vehicles have some advantages over the traditional RVs: Unibody construction, so better efficiency, drivability, easier to park, less obnoxious looking.

I have a Ford Transit with 600 watts of solar and a full sized computer workstation inside. I bought the vehicle used for 23k USD, and put another 10k in the build. If you DIY, it not that expensive.

brookside• 4 years ago

Do you have photos of your workstation, or setup in general? Sounds great!

vsareto2• 4 years ago

I don't get how any of this is better than buying a decent truck and tow camper. Truck prices are likewise insane in the US but offer more utility if you decide you want to stop living out of a camper.

A lot of this seems dumb but it would be nice to be the one selling overpriced camping stuff to millennials.

dsfyu404ed• 4 years ago

most used three-axle full-size rv's start around 80k. these things seem like a grift to screw millennials out of what little cash they had in the first place.

This is an 80k van. You can buy a ready to go motorhome for that. Nobody trying to have fun on a budget is buying this. The target buyers are going to piss their money away on status-broadcasting experiences and goods whether they piss it into Ford's bucket or someone else's. Why does Ford have any less right to get in on the action than any other business?

Reubachi2• 4 years ago

Completely agree with you RE grift, but there is a realistic niche that converted work vans offer.

Transits, sprinters, e350 etc are all very common/shared platforms and parts are incredibly cheap, well understood. Tire sizes are standard/cheap, and manufacturer warranty for the drivetrain often still applies. Significantly less GVW combined with 87 octane fuel in an economic 6 cylinder is very attractive to people into van life (for some reason).

Also considering GVW, tripping in an RV allows for very little flexability (imagine getting into a campsite in the woods). So you likely need to tow a smaller vehicle, which at that point may require a CDL depending on area.

andybak• 4 years ago

Had to look this up: GVW = gross vehicle weight.

Ya coulda just said "weight"!

EDIT - now off to Google "CDL".

rosnd• 4 years ago

Full size RVs might be great if you avoid cities, with a van you can probably find a decent spot to stay on Manhattan.

The fact that you can access so many more places could reasonably multiply the value of such a vehicle.

gbronner• 4 years ago

There's an occupied one on my block. They have to move fairly often, but it is cheaper than rent!

sbrother• 4 years ago

My family was in the market for one of these a few years back, couldn't stomach the price, and ended up buying a baseline class C RV instead (about $90k vs double that for a decently equipped van). Now that we've lived in it a few years, I understand why RVs are so much cheaper. They're big and unwieldy, you can't just park them on the street or even take them up a lot of roads to backcountry campsites. And the level of finish on a basic RV is pretty terrible -- it's basically a $70k class C truck with the absolute cheapest finishings glued onto a box on top.

That being said, we've had so many amazing times in it already and I'd make the same decision again because spending almost $200k on a van is ridiculous.

jws• 4 years ago

I see people comparing the Sprinter class RVs to the class C frequently. The parent comment is absolutely the reason. a $90k RV is a great value for space, but it is built out of ticky tacky and will be begin rusting, breaking, and leaking probably before you even take possession from the dealer. That said, you can patch them (they make special tape), lose some of the bits that break off, and make do with the rest and have a great time then sell them on when you are done.

In contrast, if a buyer is forking over for a Sprinter chassis then the RV builder figures you want nicer construction and all the pieces are better and it doesn't disintegrate around you nearly as rapidly.

And just to put some concrete the class C quality… in no particular order… exterior latch screws which rust instantly, exterior locks with corrode to useless in a couple years, generator fuel pump lasts 30 hours, water tank did not have drill shavings removed when drilled (end up in strainer), water pump strainer installed backwards so it can't be emptied of said shavings, winterization drain valves are undocumented and inside a sealed compartment (found while replacing water pump which turned out to just be blocked by shavings), 120v electrical box with no cover because the wires were too bulky and it would not fit on (under the sink where you stick metal trays), roof membrane was slightly too short to overlap and engage front roof (manufacturer covered with copious sealant goo to hide, eventually failed and inflated roof while driving down road), mysterious current leak will drain starting battery if you park too long, battery combiner to use house batteries and generator to start main engine clicks relay but does not actually combine batteries, likewise circuit which chargers vehicle battery when plugged in does not function (there are no wiring diagrams available, not clear where it even should be), house fuse panel is so badly made that fuses bounce out while driving, furnace failed two ways in 5 years (once off, and once always on. Good variety at least), knobs snap off, anything screwed in might drop screws, black water tank outlet didn't fit so manufacturer kind of gooed it in place (it held for a couple years, sorry about that mess on your road, great state of California) . – In short (long) a class C is cheap for what you get, but is an ongoing project. Good news, you have room for plenty of tools and recovery equipment.

jklinger4103• 4 years ago

Yes, it is a grift through and through. Van living (and therefore tiny homes) are incredibly expensive. Storing things you need for later, having room for certain activities, actually has a cost savings that these people are unaware of.

Part of being born in America and not having a very intelligent parent to guide you through involves being an easy target for an ever growing and complex series of grifts.

notch656a3• 4 years ago

huh? I lived in a subaru outback in the forest for some time. I bought the car for $1500. It lasted ~6 months, I spent a few hundred registering and bare-minimum insuring it and when it died I called a junkyard and they hauled it away and gave me $100. It's not like it cost anything to park it in national forest.

When I was homeless in North Dakota I met a guy with a Ford E350 ho bought for about the same price. He was handier than I was and as far as I can tell he could keep it running indefinitely from junkyard parts for almost nothing.

The grift is overselling what goes into the van, or a new and overbuilt van. The bigger issue is van-life dumps your externalities on everyone else -- you aren't paying property taxes but you probably still avail yourself of local public services and utilities as part of the cheap living. It doesn't scale.

cpsns• 4 years ago

Tiny homes didn’t start out expensive. I remember years ago when it was just something eccentric people did to get away from society which they talked about on very obscure forums. Those tiny homes were not luxurious, they were spartan and not the sort of thing the average person would have liked. The idea of having them on trailers wasn’t really a thing yet at that point.

Of course at some point someone saw dollar signs and the rest is history.

kragen9• 4 years ago

IIRC I spent about US$6000 (not US$60k, US$6k) on a 24-year-old Volkswagen Vanagon with an aftermarket camper conversion kit. My wife and I lived in it for about three months as we traveled around the US visiting people. We had to rebuild the engine twice and are damn lucky it didn't catch on fire due to a copious fuel-line leak, so we spent about US$10000 on repairs, gas, renting an auto transport, renting an alternative car, etc., and I think we sold it for about US$4000. So in a sense we spent US$12000 on three months' rent, which is quite a bit more than we were spending on our apartment in San Francisco.

This was in 02006 so add 50% to all these numbers; the dollar has lost a third of its value since then.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/blmurch/129519600

But we also drove about 10000 km during that time, a quarter of the way around the world, and that was the expensive part; something new would break on it every day. And the auto transport was a big expense caused by needing to meet a deadline even though I still had the engine apart. (The first time I paid someone else to rebuild it; the second time I did it myself.)

There were three weeks we were parked in a campground with a cracked cylinder head when I think we spent about US$600. If we'd been driving 30 km once a week, or 3 km every day, instead of over 100 km a day, and if we hadn't abused and overheated the engine, it would have been a pretty cheap way to live. I don't know if we could have gotten below US$100 a month but I think US$300 would have been within easy reach.

And it was the most pleasant place I've ever lived, but it didn't have a toilet. There wasn't room. But it had a propane refrigerator, a stove, a sink, a bed, storage space, a pop top, and a propane space heater.

That was 16 years ago, I think cars are better quality now. Finicky air-cooled engines are few and far between nowadays — the guy who bought the van from us sent a rod through the crankcase a few years later after driving 100km down the highway in second gear — and cars generally have better metals, more sensors, and less risk of bursting into flames.

If you were just looking for something that would safely provide shelter you wouldn't need something that was the most pleasant place I've ever lived. One night I slept in a Wal-Mart parking lot on an airbed in the bed of a pickup truck with a hardtop. https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd/7553195670.html is a 23-year-old pickup with hardtop for US$8000, with a 2.5-meter-long bed, and it's a Toyota, so you wouldn't have to fix something new on it every day.

Oh, about toilets. Piss is easy enough to manage in Gatorade bottles but shit requires more care. An ecovillage I used to spend a lot of time at, years after the Vanagon, used 20-liter plastic paint buckets for the shit. After shitting in the bucket you would throw in enough wood ash to raise the shit pH into a sterile range and also increase its osmotic pressure into a sterile range, preventing fermentation either aerobic or anaerobic, similar to a chemical toilet. They didn't keep the shit buckets in the living shelters but there was so little smell that I think it wouldn't have been a problem as long as you never spilled one. Later they switched to composting the shit, replacing the ash with dry leaves, which are reasonably effective and easier to get. I have used this solution, with the addition of a black garbage bag, when housesitting for a friend whose toilet was broken; at least over a short period of time there is no smell. These buckets cost US$6 new with a totally airtight lid.

For hygiene, we had wet wipes, rubbing alcohol, and clean cotton clothes. It's surprising how far those can get you, even if you aren't stopping in at truck rest stops and the houses of friends and relatives.

ptudan• 4 years ago

Lol I don't really disagree with the fancy vans being outrageously overpriced but this reads as super patronizing

brokenkebab2• 4 years ago

Overgeneralization detected! I live tiny, and spend less than I used to. I'm not in US though. But I think the general principle is the same everywhere: many of those who come to alternative homes do it not to save (especially from IT crowd), but for the fun of trying something different, and they happily spend a lot. But some do it to practice self-restraint. Others to keep themselves busy with DIY. Many different goals, many different compromises, all of that leading to different budgets.

Dig1t• 4 years ago

I’m not sure it’s a grift exactly, it’s a fairly new trend and I just don’t think the market has responded to the demand yet. Given enough time and consistent demand for livable vans, I think prices will come down. This is big business and it’s just starting to be tapped by big players who can bring the cost down.

insane_dreamer2• 4 years ago

I've seen this especially with Sprinter (which is what I would get if I were doing this; Mercedes vans are high-quality and last a long time).

insane_dreamer2• 4 years ago

downvoted? are we not supposed to talk about Mercedes?

stickfigure• 4 years ago

Not that I want to defend a $150k RV (my family loves the popup trailer I bought used for $3k) but there are reasons that small RVs can be more expensive than large RVs.

Large RVs are built up from a bare chassis. Much of the internal construction is done with the walls off. Small van-type RVs start with a fully assembled body. You have to build, plumb, wire in tight quarters.

Also, small custom fixtures are generally more expensive than standard fiberboard RV panels, drawers, etc.

jshzglr• 4 years ago

Not everything that doesn't make sense to you is a grift. Vans are tempting for a whole host of reasons and building one out as opposed to plopping a box on the back of a cut-off is going to be more expensive.

Archelaos• 4 years ago

There seems to be an excellent business opportunity for the typical HN looking-for-a-startup-idea person here: Import €50,000 European camper-vans to the US and sell them for $150,000 each. Even considering customs duty, paper work, etc. there should remain an excellent margin.

rootsudo2• 4 years ago

Can't, legally - now you can do 25yr old Japanese Kei-Vans but then you also need to support 25yr old Kei Vans, and that is far from a HN esqeue startup of an SAAS.

petre• 4 years ago

For that amount of money one could buy a sailboat, have more space, travel to nice places and not pay road taxes. Boat maintenance is expensive though.

carom• 4 years ago

Winnebago Revel and the Storyteller are the main Sprinter builds. They're both > 150k. Almost bought one instead of an apartment building...

vl3• 4 years ago

This is why a lot of people buy empty Sprinters and install internals themselves, basically to save on paying premium for interior installation.

Now it will be possible also to buy quite capable Ford, which is a big plus for this market. After all, it's way easier to maintain Ford in US than Mercedes.

doopy1• 4 years ago

A grift indeed, but the target market are boomer retirees. Millennials are more likely to have some kind of sprinter conversion.

cgs• 4 years ago

I wish they would sell the VW California in the US - it’s already kitted out for camping. Anyone know why they don’t?

b1122• 4 years ago

That's just.. cruel. Name it after a US state, then sell none there.

Sort of like Rice-er-oni, I tried to find some when in San Francisco, but all the restaurants had none. ?!?!

bombcar2• 4 years ago

To be fair California was named after a mythical wonderland popularized in a Spanish novel.

Dylan168073• 4 years ago

Throwing in the "restaurant" part for a grocery product makes this logic hard to follow. That and the misspelling makes whatever joke you're doing completely incomprehensible to me.

imnotlost• 4 years ago

Van prices and van build prices are nuts in the US. Meanwhile in Europe you get a pretty nice van for about EUR 65K (including VAT and TUF).

https://www.hymer.com/de/en/models/hymer-free

ChuckNorris894• 4 years ago

Yet almost every other consumer good is more expensive in Europe. Especially now with the Euro tanking vs the dollar.

dougmwne2• 4 years ago

No one ever adds VAT. Consumer goods mostly come from China. You would expect them to be 23% more expensive across the board than the US where sales tax is always lower and added at time of purchase.

Things produced within the EU can be a better deal if it’s not too labor intensive. Camper bands are a good example of something being built within the EU and able to have a price advantage, even after factoring in taxes.

thatfrenchguy2• 4 years ago

Food, cheese, wine are cheaper in Europe. Decent furniture is as well. And you do buy a lot more good cheese than you buy furniture.

Comevius6• 4 years ago

A new Mercedes Sprinter is around EUR 40K. If you are handy you can outfit it for living with another EUR 15K. Put in a wood stove and you have yourself a home.

whiddershins• 4 years ago

What I want is something with the off-road capabilities of a legit truck, but instead of a truck bed, living space.

I don’t understand why this doesn’t exist. Is it because vans become so prone to tipping that they can never behave like a truck?

Edit: Just a full sized suv but with all the back seating area converted to living space.

almost_usual• 4 years ago

There are campers for truck beds and there have been for years.

Depending on the truck you might need to change the suspension for the new weight.

Example of a camper for OHV https://vagabondoutdoors.com/product/the-drifter/

qbasic_forever• 4 years ago

You're looking for an 'overlander' conversion. Stick that term in your search engine of choice and you'll find companies happy to build you one, but hold on to your wallet because they're all $200k+ (seriously). They take a $100k offroader (new G wagon, Landcruiser, etc.) and go wild makinng it livable.

c0nsumer3• 4 years ago

A retired friend who recently picked up a nice camper van for travel mentions something rarely seen in the vanlife social media stuff: that most folks he's met doing the vanlife thing will stay for a few days in their van, then a few in a hotel / short term rental. This latter part is often ignored or glossed over by folks advocating this sort of lifestyle.

The main reason for this is because showering and washing stuff (clothes/dishes) and generally keeping clean is a huge pain in just a van. Without a source of fresh water and easy way to store and heat it, you get dirty really fast. Especially if you're hiking / mountain biking / doing whatever beyond just sitting around.

nebula8804• 4 years ago

The "Living in your car" youtubers I follow generally do not do this. Instead they go to truck rest stops like "Loves" which have properly maintained Shower + Laundry facilities and depending on how much gas you purchase, are either comped a free shower or typically pay ~10-15$ for it. (Or if you are a really attractive female, friendly truckers might walk up and offer a coupon for a free shower since they accumulate tons of extra coupons due to buying so much fuel)

These showers from what I seen are a large private room with a code lock so you can peacefully freshen up.

The youtubers I follow stress that you have to be extra strict to maintain cleanliness especially if you live in your car. They develop daily routines for cleaning and it seems to work from what I can see.

carabiner3• 4 years ago

It might be more cost effective to drive a fuel-efficient vehicle and stay in Airbnb's on a dollars per night basis, not to mention vastly more comfortable. What is the non-recoverable cost of a van (depreciation, maintenance, gas++) per night?

I definitely know one guy like you mention. He has a $60k used van build but stays in motels when it's cold. Has to do a bunch of cold prep work (put up insulation, turn on a heater) in the van at night before he goes to bed in the motel. We were ribbing him for doing all this shit with his van with terrible MPG and scary driving on windy, icy roads in Montana (2WD very tall vehicle), while we were zipping around in a small SUV, but he likes the van because it's a trendy conversation piece / fantasy fulfillment.

c0nsumer3• 4 years ago

Said friend of mine uses his van more like folks would tent camping; just for a day or three at a time. Or he'll sleep it in and shower at truck stops while driving cross country, but then have a destination where he stays at a rental place.

It works out quite well and he can afford it, so it's a great solution for comfort while traveling (no single night motel hassles) and is still fine once he gets there.

countvonbalzac• 4 years ago

I feel like it would be more enjoyable to drive a comfortable fuel efficient car. Camp for a bit, stay in hotels for a bit. Just to give yourself that flexibility.

appletrotter2• 4 years ago

I'm currently living in my a van full time for a few months now, in the bay area. I have access to an office space and go to the gym for showers.

club_tropical3• 4 years ago

Planet Fitness is a steal.

bitcoinmoney• 4 years ago

Where do you park so you don’t get bothered by police?

prawn2• 4 years ago

I've just returned to Australia yesterday after 10 weeks living with my family of five (kids 4-10) in my shuttle bus in the US. Following vanlife communities, some people routinely raise this sort of thing like it's a gotcha, which I find strange. Advocating! Realistically, if you're on a roadtrip and broadcasting it publicly, the laundry stops and the like just aren't very novel or exciting. You photograph the hikes and the food and so on. I don't document doing laundry at home either!

Some people handwash clothes. Others use laundromats.

For the most part, I renovated our bus in a few days so it's nothing slick. We didn't bother with a bathroom because it's a lot of extra effort for something you rarely need. Maybe it disgusts some people, but when camping I can go 10+ days without a shower and don't feel horrible. People sponge-bath or use wipes. People with van showers often just use them as wet storage areas.

RV parks in the US right now are US$40-100. If you're not boondocking, state/national park campgrounds are often $35-40 range - you can get a mid-week basic motel in a little town for $40-50 and chew through someone else's internet, hot water, etc.

Many people forgo a sink, but washing dishes isn't too painful, even with unheated water or water heated on a gas cooktop if you don't have a hot water system.

We typically travelled with a few gallons of drinking water and then 10 gallons of water for washing up. People with better setups would have a lot more. Expedition vehicles have even more (water, grey, black and fuel, etc).

TL;DR: some of these things are glossed over because they're boring. Washing up isn't difficult in a van/bus. People use laundromats for clothes. Showers/bathrooms use up more space and are a hassle to build.

n3dm• 4 years ago

This is ridiculous, I have met several people living full time in them and not any of them do this and spend time in hotels. If anything at all they have a home base and will do domestic things at home between trips, but they all use laundromats and public showers, etc in between.

Markoff• 4 years ago

I never understood how can people sleep with that 178cm interior width as always pictured in photos [1]. Are all people living in these camper vans midgets or what?

[1] https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g41844354/2023-ford-transi...

And obligatory link for DIY van conversions since it's missing in article:

https://www.reddit.com/r/VanLife/

Comevius6• 4 years ago

The same way people do it in tents. The Transit is plenty big for living. I like the Sprinter though, you can put a bathroom with a toilet in some of them. A wood stove is also useful.

chrischattin• 4 years ago

I built a camper van from a Promaster and it’s 78 inches across in the back. So with a thin layer of insulation I can fit a full size mattress across the back. The Promaster is wider than the Transit or the Sprinter.

ad700x2• 4 years ago

I lived in a Ford Transit (MR, 132") for 2 years. I'm a little over 6'2". I slept a little sideways and was smart with my interior build out.

Most people are shorter or spend the money on flares. (Flarespace)

teleforce3• 4 years ago

It seems that the European version of this Ford Transit Nugget by Westfalia has two beds (inside and top) that are big enough for four 6-footers.

[1]https://westfalia-mobil.de/en/modelle/westfalia-nugget-hochd...

theGnuMe• 4 years ago

This shows you how bad the rental and housing market is.

rcarr5• 4 years ago

I agree, there are a lot of people considering vanlife because they’ve been priced out of home ownership and renting in many places.

CobaltFire• 4 years ago

I have a similar van, though a size class smaller (Mercedes-Benz Metris; the only one sold in the US in that size class) and we did SOME of the upfitting you see on these.

L-track the full length of the back that the bench seat is in and can slide along, swiveling front seats, standalone power system, insulated window covers for every window, and planning on the Westfalia style roof tent that is available.

It tows 5,000 lbs, has a 2,200 lb payload, and gets over 30mpg at 60mph on the highway (32.5 yesterday). Most practical vehicle I've owned, but as I said, we only did a partial upfitting as we don't need the "living" stuff, just the "camping" and flexible use stuff (my son is autistic and it's his space when he can't handle grocery shopping, etc.).

rcarr5• 4 years ago

I still can’t figure out why Tesla hasn’t released an all electric camper with solar panels and starlink built in specifically aimed at digital nomads. It’s a massive missed opportunity. They could literally release the vehicle that defines an entire generation and movement the same way the VW Campervan was the defining vehicle of the 60s.

c0nsumer3• 4 years ago

I believe this is because most folks who fancy themselves as vanlifers want to fulfill the idea of going off the grid, of disconnecting from infrastructure for a while. Electric doesn't really allow that because solar won't allow for fast enough charging to compete with petrol. It's also very easy to bring along a couple jerry cans of gas to extend range, whereas with solar one would have to park and wait.

rcarr5• 4 years ago

Electric doesn't really allow that because solar won't allow for fast enough charging to compete with petrol.

I'm not sure this is much of an issue for the target market. As the song goes: slow ride, take it easy...

briankelly• 4 years ago

They're inching that way, especially with Starlink, but EVs don't do well driving off-road with a lot of weight, especially into remote areas without charging infrastructure nearby. I was hoping my next vehicle would be this concept, but there's a way to go to get there.

BonoboIO• 4 years ago

Electric Camper like a VW Buzz, I think that’s a niche market. Still profitable, but you can sell higher priced things like the Tesla Roadster 2 way faster.

scraptor• 4 years ago

Because tesla has yet to make a car that's affordable to the masses, and a 200k dollar van is hardly going to define a generation.

m463• 4 years ago

I think a large electric RV would work well. Large ones are as spacious as an apartment, with dual bathrooms, washer/dryer, outside tv and more. Running a generator is a pain, and all-electric with decent batteries would make it silent.

That said, the market is very small/niche.

They could go the way that all the other companies go -- release a chassis for manufacturers to build on.

jtwaleson2• 4 years ago

"Massive missed opportunity" lol. How big is that market compared to the Model S/3 and Model X/Y markets?

rcarr5• 4 years ago

Yes they're not going to make as much money selling camper vans as the regular car models but, as I said, you have the opportunity to create the iconic vehicle of the decade. That does absolute wonders for your brand and would be a nice boost considering other vehicle manufacturers are now starting to catch up and even overtake them in certain areas (f150 lightning). People still think VW Campers are cool today and they still sell for silly amounts of money. You can't underestimate the value of this kind of thing; part of the reason Tesla has got the market cap it's got today is because Musk played the brand image card so well in the early days.

If Tesla could convince a few big name surfers and other extreme athletes to use them plus a few high profile digital nomads they'd be absolutely laughing to the bank. They could also use the same chassis for a panel van like the Transit and Sprinter which would be something that would make them a ton of money.

vl3• 4 years ago

Tesla can't even release two cars they promised and already designed - Cybertruck and Roadster. Semi, announced in 2017 just started shipping in limited quantities. They can't ramp up production fast enough for the cars they are already producing to satisfy demand. There is no way they have capacity to work on a van in addition to that.

P.S. But, but they have time to work on "humanoid robot"?

wiremonger2• 4 years ago

Our products are popular with the vanlife crowd. We’ve sold to dozens of conversion companies at this point (we sell wire that can be used to hook up all the low voltage devices that get installed in them). So I’ve tried to figure out who is buying these, since as many people have noted, they’re so danged expensive. The best I’ve come up with is: people enjoy recreation. Some people like to go to the lake and might buy themselves a $100k boat. Other people like camping and might buy themselves a $100k van conversion. As for why a van vs an RV, I think there are arguments about size and maneuverability, but really I think it’s just that the Mercedes vans are cool, RVs are not, and people with disposable income like cool things more than uncool things.

carabiner3• 4 years ago

I think in a few years, there will be a ton of these vans on the market after people get over the fad. Will be nice to pick one up then.

wiremonger2• 4 years ago

I agree, seems to me like a lot of their popularity was tied to pandemic lockdowns coupled with people's balance sheets going up because of stock, real estate, etc. Basically, a microcosm of the huge increase in home improvement and durable goods spending in the last 2 years.

chatterhead• 4 years ago

Center drive!

Why isn't anyone making center drive Van Life!? Van Life is a great vehicle for testing 'grounded space life' and the entire vehicle should exude that feeling.

Center drive vans are the future of Mobile Living Spaces.

ranger_danger• 4 years ago

what is a center drive van?

SevenNation• 4 years ago

For a time, Ford CEO Jim Farley had a reference to the bit — and his late cousin — in his Twitter profile: “Mustang and racing fan. Happen to love white vans ... preferably down by the river.” The auto executive has paid other tributes to his cousin on the social media platform through the use of memes and other media.

Popping over to the Wikipedia page, the connections to SNL continue:

James D. Farley Jr. (born June 10, 1962) is an American businessman who is the CEO of Ford and a board member of Harley-Davidson.[1] His career in automobiles was inspired by his grandfather, who began work at Henry Ford's River Rouge Plant in 1918.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Farley_(businessman)

club_tropical3• 4 years ago

Have Prius camped in the bay area for a few months. It is possible to do this gradually if you're not straight off-roading. Slowly building out the interior, taking things one step at a time. Pros and cons, of course, but the freedom of being on wheels, just driving, without pressure to go back to a particular spot at night has been immensely freeing.

sahila• 4 years ago

I'm wanting to do this but always worry about finding a spot to park during the night. Is that difficult?

club_tropical3• 4 years ago

Not at all, in my experience.

If you are beginner in your journey, like I was initially, (no tinted windows, exiting vehicle before re-entering from the back to sleep), then I would recommend Walmarts. They always have car campers parked overnight, many people sleeping within earshot, round the clock security cruising around, easy to find privacy where you are surrounded by a tree or bush or something on front&side of vehicle.

If you are advanced (tinted windows, rainguards to crack open windows without being visible, internal supplementary window covers so you can have lights inside while blacked out from outside, and a way of getting to the sleeping area without exiting the vehicle), then the world is your oyster. You get very good at developing a sixth sense for safety, just based on how the people on the streets are behaving, the houses, the trashiness, etc, but you can also use my favorite method: fire up Zillow and find rich neighborhoods and/or find neighborhoods with artisanal French bakeries.

tobyjsullivan2• 4 years ago

Has anyone else noticed that Ford is secretly mastering quick turnaround (relatively speaking) on new models to catch certain trends?

Specifically, I'm thinking of two examples so far:

1. Ford Lightning electric pickup

2. This van

Neither of these are super unique in the market but that's not really the point. Maybe I'm out of touch but my impression of automakers is 10-year lead times and a fixed selection with maximum mainstream appeal, and a few trims and color choices. Conversely, Ford seems to be jumping on "niche trends" (again, relative to the industry) with only a year or two of lead time.

sangnoir• 4 years ago

It's not even secret. Ford dropped sedans before everyone else. That decision had me scratching my head, but it turned out they were ahead of the curve on US market preferences. Im not a fan of trucks, but the Lightning is not half bad as a car replacement. If Ford were to announce an electric Lighting with Vehicle-to-Load - I'd sign up immediately.

olyjohn5• 4 years ago

What did they have to do to make this van?

They added a 3.5 inch lift, and some slightly bigger tires. Gave it a trendy "Trail" name. There isn't much else out there for information.

It's a marketing stunt. And a smart one at that.

rufus_foreman• 4 years ago

Original article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv2VIEY9-A8

teleforce3• 4 years ago

This is more nimble than traditional campervan, motorhome or RV, and it's also much cheaper to boot. You can also use the van as normal vehicle with the available five seats everyday if you are not on the road or camping, unlike the traditional ones.

This American Ford Transit van has a cousin that is currently being sold in the UK and Europe. It's official Ford's vehicle with collaboration with Westfalia that has more than 70 years designing campervan conversion vehicles [1]. The version with the toilet inside is called Ford Transit Nugget Plus and the waiting time is more than a year. It can cater for four adults sleeping inside and has the built-in toilet unlike the normal Nugget van.

[1]The Nugget Plus Highroof:

https://westfalia-mobil.de/en/modelle/westfalia-nugget-hochd...

graycat4• 4 years ago

Ford has a new vehicle? Okay, if Ford is interested in new vehicles, then here is one I'd like to see:

Cars are a big chunk of the US family budget. Here should be a good way to save a LOT of money:

Start with a Ford 2-door sedan from the 1940s, 1950s, or maybe 1960s.

Use a modern electronic controlled system for the fuel mixture and ignition.

Use modern, long lasting suspension ball joints and bushings.

Use disk brakes with dual master cylinders.

Use a modern automatic transmission.

Use modern rubber formulations in the tires.

Do what have to do for current laws on the exhaust system, and try to use modern materials that will do well resisting corrosion.

Otherwise, keep it as it was: No additional electronics or systems. Certainly no 'stability control' and hopefully no 'ABS'. Stability control steps on the brakes when I don't want to, and ABS releases the brakes when I step on them -- get rid of both of them.

No electric windows.

No power steering.

No power brakes.

No air conditioning.

Now, what might the price have to be????? One half current prices? One third? Only 20%???

Cheaper to buy and to maintain.

I'd especially like a stick shift transmission with very wide ratios, maybe 4:1 first gear, and a very low number rear axle ratio, maybe 2.5:1.

Apparently could still use some of the 6 or 8 cylinder engines used back then -- apparently are still using them with little change.

notch656a3• 4 years ago

Ford has no trouble selling vehicles at their current prices, so I think they have nothing to gain by competing downward with themselves for a niche vehicle that appeals to people who want a utilitarian basic low-priced vehicle.

If you want something spartan you may have to look at a less regulated market like motorcycles.

yourusername• 4 years ago

This vehicle will be illegal to sell in big parts of the world and get 0 stars in any crash test. No ABS or ESP? Can't sell this car in USA, EU, India or China. E: coming to think of it the only places you might be able to sell this is some low income countries in South America, Africa and maybe central asia?

graycat4• 4 years ago

Looks like you are correct: E.g., this ESP (ESC -- electronic stability thingy) is now required nearly everywhere.

Now I'm especially glad my car, used I bought recently, is too old to have ESP. It has ABS which doesn't work -- fine with me. The brakes, with dual master cylinders, work fine. A guess is that the problem with ABS is a corroded electrical ground connection back to the frame -- that illustrates one of my concerns for ABS, ESP, etc., maintenance problems.

To me some good news is likely most or all of these electronic systems can fail and the car will be more like one from the 1950s and still work fine. So, if ESP or ABS gets sick, just cut some wires and drive off just fine!

I've driven nearly 1 million miles with only one accident, not serious, and with no insurance claims! I have a squeaky clean driving record and am a total cream puff customer for the auto insurance industry. In all that driving, I never had, needed, or wanted either ABS or ESP.

I used to do a LOT of driving, and cost, time, botheration for maintenance of the car was always an issue. For so much driving the current cars with ABS, ESP, etc. look more expensive, both to buy and to maintain, by a factor of several.

All of this urgency to make cars more complicated looks like a big shot in the gut of the US family budget: US families are having a tough time paying for a house, schooling for the kids, groceries, medical care, and now the cost of driving is a factor of several more expensive than it was and could be.

Looks like there will be some ups/downs, I don't know which, of prices in the used car market. E.g., maybe some owner of a recent car gets a repair estimate of $15,000 to fix one of these super electronic systems and decides to sell the car. Then the price on the used car market might be nicely low! And the buyer of the used car just disables the electronic system!

Yes, I know, there was a big problem of smog from cars in NYC, LA, maybe another 10 large US cities, but I never lived in any of those places and now live in TN with no chance of any smog problems.

Besides, a lot of the US has, had, no smog problem: Some parts have very low population density and people can get winter heat from wood fires that put out smoke and still have no smog or smoke problems! Smoke from a wood fire? Ah, smells like home at Thanksgiving or Christmas! And a lot of the rest of the US is farming country where there are tractors, often Diesel, with little or nothing for smog reduction -- with, wonder of wonders, still no smog problem!

There's long been a big theme: Go after the cars!!! That's part of a bigger theme, really popular in some parts of Europe: We all need more government to do things for us!!!!

I like seat belts fine. Maybe air bags are worth the cost and botheration. ESP, modulating the power to the drive wheels, applying the brakes in tricky ways -- I can't believe that that would actually be good for anything.

rambambram• 4 years ago

I like the idea of vanlife a lot, and stealth vans even more. But being attached to a pricey, big, and gas guzzling van is not my definition of freedom. I opted to build a cheaper and more natural alternative for this. Go look at https://www.theredpanther.org if you want to see my bicycle cart/caravan. Pedal powered, only 42 kilograms (without luggage) and building the thing only costs me a couple of hundred euros.

manifoldgeo• 4 years ago

Does this news story strike anyone else as native advertising, i.e. a product placement disguised as news? As always, it's hard to discern between the two, since the lines are blurred.

Still, there isn't a lot of novelty to this article-- no new technology, no real changes besides a slightly bolstered build for outdoor travel. The article just describes a new Ford vehicle and tells you the price and when it's available. How is this newsworthy?

yencabulator• 4 years ago

For anyone complaining about the price:

1. Before Covid times and increasing demand, buying new at 40% off the list price was possible, you just had to time it right with new models coming out.

2. RVs lose something like 20-30% of their value in the first year, 50% in the first 4-6 years.

Buy used, it's better that way (all the warranty work has been dealt with; very few brands manage to build them well enough to not need warranty work).

Want to live in a van down by the river? Ford has a new vehicle for that

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