Covid-19 vaccine doses, once in high demand, now thrown away

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-vaccine-doses-once-in-high-demand-now-thrown-away-11657105202

by lxm • 4 years ago

41 102 4 years ago

jleyank• 4 years ago

Because COVID changed (fortunately, I hope). Delta was bad, but Omicron was not so the pressure on people to pay attention was reduced/removed. Hopefully, the changes to Omicron don't return "strength" to go along with "transmissibility". The signal-to-noise ratio for COVID was terrible, and people just decided it was over. The last wave didn't end up in hospital and if they think about it at all they assume all future waves won't either. Hope so...

Endemic COVID, which is sorta the endgame that people want/expect, has it turning into somewhere between a cold and a bad flu in strength/effect. We'll see.

rajman1873• 4 years ago

Endemic COVID, which is sorta the endgame that people want/expect

Textbook case of a self-fulfilling prophecy. It was said from the beginning that would be the ultimate result and very little was done as a coordinated global effort to avoid it. And that inspired little confidence in regard to the next pandemic, whenever it may be.

azinman23• 4 years ago

There was much done, but to ill effect with a large percentage of people actively blocking any efforts. What do you suggest should have been done that wasn’t attempted?

wonderbore• 4 years ago

So, good news?

I hope this means more will go to underdeveloped countries now. The African continent averages at 40 doses per 100 people while the rest of the world is at 154

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1245573/covid-19-vaccina...

The NYT’s visualization makes this painfully clear: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-vaccina...

bsaul• 4 years ago

"painfully clear " although it's quite unclear if (most of) those countries really need vaccines. Their fatality rate has always been orders of magnitude lower than in eur / us..

Trouble_0075• 4 years ago

Their fatality rate has always been orders of magnitude lower than in eur / us..<

You might like to look at the life-expectancy figures for those Countries.

antisthenes• 4 years ago

Their fatality rate has always been orders of magnitude lower than in eur / us

Their reported fatality rate.

anonAndOn• 4 years ago

fatality rate has always been orders of magnitude lower than in eur / us

Is that because of superior health care and strong leadership, like in North Korea?

abduhl• 4 years ago

Is this a supply or demand issue? Do Africans want COVID vaccines from the west and do Africans want to be vaccinated?

Trouble_0075• 4 years ago

Is this a supply or demand issue?<

Cold-chain transport, storage, distribution, staff to inject, syringes and sundries.

cat_plus_plus11• 4 years ago

Even in underdeveloped countries most have probably been exposed multiple times and built up natural immunity. Although AIDS and other comorbidities could be a problem in Africa and perhaps China needs lots of doses to mitigate consequences of zero COVID. If their official case stats are to be trusted that is.

liampulles• 4 years ago

South African here: may be different in other African nations but we have had plenty of supply for a while: people simply don't want to get vaccinated.

It is not just the west that has "vaccine hesitancy".

whoomp123423• 4 years ago

now that ba.5 is the dominant variant, seriously, what is the efficacy of the original covid-19 vaccine? does it actually reduce spreading and by how much?

superkuh8• 4 years ago

Look at the UK's monitoring re: vaccine effectiveness against infection as described in table 3 of this document: "COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report: 16 June 2022 (week 24)" https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... from https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccine-...

The current vaccine effectiveness against infection for either Moderna's, BioNTech/Pfizers, or AstroZeneca's against BA.4/BA.5 is 0-30%.

drno123• 4 years ago

How does 30% compare to flu vaccine? I heard that the flu vaccine is also around 30% effective.

Trouble_0075• 4 years ago

current vaccine effectiveness against infection< Is always the lowest percentage,

followed by effectiveness against hospitalisation mid-percentage,

followed by effectiveness against death the highest percentage.

stochtastic• 4 years ago

I take it that you're looking only at the "All Infection" efficacy? While the original vaccines are clearly less effective at totally preventing infection with the latest variants, their efficacy against symptomatic infection and hospitalization is nothing to sneeze at — ~50% and ~90% respectively with a booster, eyeballing the table.

cm21874• 4 years ago

To be honest at this stage vaccination policies have become little more than a bureaucratic process and a mean to enforce compliance for the sake of compliance. Forcing people to get vaccinated irrespective of whether they were infected or not, or whether the virus circulates or not, or whether they are in a demographics with near zero risk from the virus. It ceases to be a medical consideration. So the fact that we are many variants away from the original vaccine is lost on the political science graduates running the show.

whoomp123423• 4 years ago

what nonsense is this? why would you get vaccinated AFTER and infection? the point of the vaccine is to prevent, not to fix. I realize my comment begged someone to talk like this, to be honest I am glad that me and my whole family got vaxxed. It was the least we could do.

superkuh8• 4 years ago

Intramuscular sars-cov-2 vaccines to produce humoral igM and igG antibodies (and body serum resident T cells) based on a genetic sequence from 2+ years ago are now thrown away. That's unfortunate but a 4th dose has limited returns.

What we need is intranasal sars-cov-2 vaccine boosters to provide igM and igA antibodies, and more importantly trained tissue resident T cells, in the upper respiratory mucosa immune compartment where igG antibodies do not penetrate. That's where infection starts and replication goes (mostly) unchecked.

Even just updating the sequence to reflect current variants while remaining intramuscular only would be okay and that will happen this fall (too late). But if we really want to mitigate spread and mutation to complement the protection from hospitalization intramusculars give we're going to need continued funding for new vaccines.

8note• 4 years ago

But how do first doses do now?

I'm sure there's still plenty of places that haven't gotten access to a first shot yet

xeromal• 4 years ago

The current vaccine effectiveness against infection for either Moderna's, BioNTech/Pfizers, or AstroZeneca's against BA.4/BA.5 is 0-30%.

doliveira• 4 years ago

Sad part I remember back in the beginning of the pandemic people mentioning this: we needed intranasal vaccines to properly stomp transmission. Feels like the initial success of Pfizer and Moderna stopped this development

amluto• 4 years ago

What we need is …

What we need is a vaccine that works better. Everything else is just speculation until it’s tested in well-designed trials that test the right thing in actual humans.

Sure, you may think we need an intranasal vaccine and I may think we need an attenuated-virus vaccine stimulating a T cell response against ORF1ab peptides, but we could both be entirely wrong.

Keep in mind that the measles vaccine is injectable and produces excellent durable protection against the airborn measles virus. The chickenpox vaccine is an injected live virus vaccine that appears to provide excellent durable protection against chickenpox, which, while it sure looks like a virus that would be transmitted mainly by shedding from blisters, is apparently also airborn.

Meanwhile, a hypothetical intranasal vaccine that raised an awesome IgA response with the same affinity as the the IgG antibodies in people vaccinated with the current mRNA vaccines but did nothing else seems unlikely to be especially effective against BA.4 and BA.5.

usrn• 4 years ago

I think what we need is trust, good faith communication, and actual science (rather than conjecture and bribes.) That's all gone now, possibly for a very long time.

Trouble_0075• 4 years ago

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/america-has-wasted-leas...

15 million Covid vaccine doses thrown away in the U.S. since March, new data shows

As countries across the world clamor for vaccine doses,

U.S. pharmacy chains and state health departments have thrown millions away.<

NOTE the Date on this Article >Sept. 1, 2021, 3:26 PM UTC / Updated Sept. 1, 2021, 9:23 PM UTC

Unsold and now EOL Vaccines are destroyed. For new Vaccines for Fall release see;

Covid-19 Vaccines Candidates in Clinical Trials : https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/vaccines/

clpm4j2• 4 years ago

I recently got Covid. My original vaccine was in April 2021, shot #2 in May 2021, and booster in December 2021. It really knocked me out for a solid week + persistent symptoms and very annoying cough for another two weeks. I would happily take another booster shot but apparently I'm not eligible yet (in California). Shame to hear that some doses are being thrown away - I'd take a shot every other month if it would prevent me from getting Covid again.

Invictus0• 4 years ago

Interesting attitude, and I wonder how much you've been affected by the pro-vaccine fervor over the last few years. Vaccines are still a risky product; your immune system is a highly complex, tightly calibrated system, and every vaccine has a small probability of throwing that system out of order. New research is coming out to show that horrific chronic illnesses like post-viral syndrome and long covid are caused by autoantibodies--antibodies that attack healthy cells. There's a good reason why we're not recommended monthly vaccine doses, and it doesn't just have to do with the cost.

Flagging this comment is also pretty ridiculous. Here's the source. https://www.science.org/content/article/rare-cases-coronavir...

cat_plus_plus11• 4 years ago

First Omicron infection is like a bad flu even after shots and older variants, but immune system does wise up to the virus with repeated exposures.

rajman1873• 4 years ago

Not entirely the case, BA2.4 and .5 are exhibiting immune escape. And wait till you hear about BA2.75 that’s going to be a wild ride

randmeerkat2• 4 years ago

immune system does wise up to the virus with repeated exposures.

“Repeatedly catching Covid-19 appears to increase the chances that a person will face new and sometimes lasting health problems after their infection, according to the first study on the health risks of reinfection.”

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/05/health/covid-reinfection-risk...

thrown3212• 4 years ago

Unfortunately the evidence is that prior omicron infection does not prevent BA.4 and BA.5 infection.

Justin_K• 4 years ago

I know a dozen people that have had it in the last month, including my whole family, and everyone's symptoms were mild, less than the flu. Not trying to discredit, just wanted to share other points of view.

beej713• 4 years ago

It seems to manifest in all kinds of ways. I got it a month ago (double boosted) and it was the worst illness I'd had since a big flu bout ca. 1990. Not fun. My symptoms were clinically mild, but were total ass-kickers.

clpm4j2• 4 years ago

That's what I was expecting. Makes me think I might've caught one of the new variants. I'm quite fit and healthy, so I don't think it's a matter of weak immune system.

adingus• 4 years ago

What stops someone from going somewhere and just pretending they're unvaccinated and getting a shot? I was under the impression that a booster was just another dose.

tablespoon2• 4 years ago

What stops someone from going somewhere and just pretending they're unvaccinated and getting a shot? I was under the impression that a booster was just another dose.

I don't know if they'd actually check it, but most (all?) US states have vaccine databases, and I assume COVID vaccinations would be entered into it.

nonameking2026• 4 years ago

Seems like repeated boosters increase your chances of getting Covid. Weakens the immune system.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/repeat-bo...

Raw data from the UK seems to support this. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde...

Alex3917• 4 years ago

In all of Connecticut, less than 3,000 of the ~166k children under five have gotten vaccinated so far. Which is pretty crazy, given that Connecticut was consistently among the top three most vaccinated states, at least until the Omicron wave.

danhak• 4 years ago

It's not crazy when you consider the risk to that population is miniscule, and that the vaccine does have side effects, particularly for young people.

sudden_dystopia2• 4 years ago

Is it really crazy that adults who are at risk would vaccinate themselves but not their children that have essentially zero/infinitesimal risk? I took the covid vaccine but there is not a chance in hell, mandated or not, that I would vaccinate my 5 year old for Covid. And yes, he has all of his other vaccines.

jmckib• 4 years ago

Isn't long covid still a common issue for young kids? And doesn't vaccination reduce the chances of having long covid? Admittedly I haven't done a deep dive on the statistics, just a quick google search.

cat_plus_plus11• 4 years ago

Lingering after effects risk is not really zero, I would go for initial doses but not necessarily indefinite boosters of current shot. However slight is your worry about kid catching COVID, it will be a little less with some protection, resulting in fuller enjoyment of life. All in exchange for at most 2-3 days of side effects after shots.

thaeli• 4 years ago

Also, a significant number of doses are thrown away in the US because they still come in 5-dose vials. Just shipping single dose would prevent a lot of scenarios where giving one person a booster means throwing away the other four doses in the vial. (The vial is only good for a few hours after being opened.)

cat_plus_plus11• 4 years ago

Well, they are obsolete. If there was a vaccine that could bring Omicron to R < 1 among those who didn't yet have the latest variant, there would be plenty of demand. Especially if it had mild enough side effects for continued regular shots to be preferable to occasional reinfections. As it is, a second Omicron infection after 3 shots seems to be 1-2 days of sniffles while each additional shot is 3 solid days of fever/puking/misery. Common sense suggests not taking something that makes you quite sick again and again.

Mind you, someone with no preexisting immunity or one natural infection would do well to get 3 shots rather than risking severe disease or lingering after effects. But how many people in the world are in this position anymore? Everyone willing and able has got the shots and the rest have been exposed multiple times and either developed effective immunity or succumbed to the disease. I can see some corner cases like babies and immunocompromised, but that's not a lot of doses. Hopefully they will have access to stronger / less unpleasant vaccine before long.

Synaesthesia2• 4 years ago

Having had the vaccine and COVID, the vaccine has far fewer side effects and offers vetter protection than the virus. This should be pretty clear to anyone who has experienced the same, and the data we have shows that too.

slaw4• 4 years ago

Could you point to that data? My small sample people I know shows the opposite. More side effects from vaccine than covid.

cat_plus_plus11• 4 years ago

How is that different from what I am saying? It's just that if you already had 3 shots and 2 COVIDs, and you had significant side effects from previous shots, the equation is different going forward. But new vaccines that are ahead of circulating variants / tend to not have noticeable side effects would be worth considering.

kmeisthax• 4 years ago

One thing to remember is that the reason why these doses aren't going to countries that want them is that Bill "Open Source is Communism" Gates said so. Remember when Biden wanted to suspend COVID vaccine patents? Yeah, that got the entire rogues gallery of copyright and patent maximalists to circle the wagons and kill anything even remotely related to poorer countries being able to print their own mRNA.

The current situation we have now is what they wanted: rich countries buying up dose after dose long after they are needed while poor countries have to beg and plead for nearly-expired scraps. The end result of this is that vaccine immunity has a shelf-life because the virus has plenty of unexposed individuals to mutate in. No, this wasn't planned, but it is an example of how excessive focus on protecting "intellectual property" generates worse public outcomes.

fxtentacle• 4 years ago

Sadly, that argumentation already falls apart inside rich countries bevause even they only get to 70% vaccination rate due to issues and idiots.

icegreentea2• 4 years ago

I think it's worth pulling out three points in particular from the article.

One is that packaging choices (vial size) made to optimize mass vaccination are now somewhat of a hindrance. This isn't exactly unsurprising that packaging should have to evolve with the type of demand. I know that changing vial sizes probably would require the manufacturers to re-run all of their shelf-life and shipping validations. I wonder where they are along that process. One would have hoped that these validations would have been run earlier - the change in consumption patterns was somewhat predictable.

The other is that other countries are -refusing- vaccine donations. As it turns out, infrastructure and logistics constraints, as well as vaccine hestitancy continue to be a problem. Here's another article about that from earlier in 2022 (https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/22/africa-asks-covid-v...).

The article claims the US has a ~12% wastage rate. I'd argue that while that's not insignificant, if the rate can be held at 12% (big if to be fair...), that doesn't seem -that- bad. There's quite a lot of literature on vaccine wastage rates even prior to COVID. From what I've found, a 2.5%-5% wastage rate was considered normal for vaccines in steady-state use in developed countries, while flu vaccine wastage could potentially range from 5-40% (https://www.auditor.on.ca/en/content/annualreports/arreports... Figure 6).

tmaly• 4 years ago

I could imagine the shelf life for these are rather short.

Pair that with the efficacy of a 4th dose, and it is not surprising what is happening to the demand.

dirtyid• 4 years ago

I don't see much formal policy/discussion of 2nd booster with the new variants around. Most people I know have boosted for 6+ months and wondering if it's worth getting 4th shot but there's no official guidance. Like if you can just walk into a pharmacy and get another shot like in US I'd probably do it.

hn2017• 4 years ago

What we need is for more truth. Unfortunately many Republican and far-right followers think covid is just like the flu. Or worse, that the vaccines have nanochips that will control you. Worst is influential people like Musk who vote for Mayra Flores who is a qanon believer and is against the covid vaccine.

Misinformation is one of the worst problems for the future human race.

HKH2• 4 years ago

Can you not see the irony in saying we need more truth and then cherry picking to suit your argument?

Covid-19 vaccine doses, once in high demand, now thrown away

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