Wealthy Americans are buying second passports as a 'plan B'

https://www.businessinsider.com/wealthy-americans-buy-second-passports-amid-covid-politics-climate-change-2022-5

by resonious • 4 years ago

139 233 4 years ago

docdeek2• 4 years ago

I didn't buy my second passport but having two has been very handy. Unless it is prohibited by a law in one country or the other, and assuming you look into all the details like compulsory military service and such things, a second passport is a great investment.

RaoulP• 4 years ago

In what way has it been handy? I happen to be getting a second passport soon.

toomuchtodo3• 4 years ago

You can move frictionlessly to another country. No visa hassles, no years long process.

pzh2• 4 years ago

You can travel between the countries you hold a passport of regardless of what emergency rules they impose. No country refused entry to its own citizens during the pandemic.

docdeek2• 4 years ago

I have an Australian and a European passport. Australians travelling to Europe either need to be out of the Schengen Zone in 90 days or get a long term visa. My EU passport means I don't have to worry about visas, term of stay, and get all the rights of an EU citizen even if - to this point - I've never even visited the country that gave me the passport 20 years ago.

An edge use case - but one I've enjoyed - was visiting Israel and then traveling on to other countries in the region. An Israel entry stamp can cause issues entering other Middle Eastern states but, in my case, I used a different passport when traveling to other ME countries.

saco• 4 years ago

Even better if you can get it for free.

mattbee• 4 years ago

Brexit was my catalyst to (re) claiming German citizenship - my father, sister & kids got it all at once.

My kids will be able to work, travel and settle around the EU which I'd taken for granted when the first was born :(

unreal37• 4 years ago

And the US offers the EB-5 program that offers wealthy Chinese a Green Card and a path to citizenship.

Pick the log from your own eye before you pick the speck from someone else.

immigrantheart7• 4 years ago

For those which country doesn’t allow dual citizenship. How do they skirt it?

DamnYuppie2• 4 years ago

You don’t need to get citizenship to get a passport. Panama and many other countries have resident visas that get you a passport without becoming a citizen.

searchableguy9• 4 years ago

That's not possible. You can only get a passport if you are a citizen.

Edit: I meant in the case of panama but looks like I'm wrong which is good to know.

withinboredom6• 4 years ago

I spent a good first portion of my career badly picking startups that would fail. I got pretty darn good at sniffing failure. In 2018, I started getting those smells from the US itself. My family packed up and moved to the EU in 2018. I don’t regret it, not for a second.

peteradio2• 4 years ago

Interesting, what smells were you picking up?

freddybobs2• 4 years ago

I can't speak for original poster. But in 2018 - fascism, authoritarianism and break down of political discourse were very alarming. Now in 2022, we see it is likely Roe vs Wade gets overturned. The basis of that argument works for throwing out civil rights, contraception and voting rights. There are already moves in some states to make abortion murder and so punishable by death.

And that's not even getting into the attempted coup.

I'd say that's all pretty terrifying.

I think I'd agree that in 2018, if you were paying attention, that the 'smell' was that's where we were heading.

Now we are here.

withinboredom6• 4 years ago

IMHO, one of the biggest differences between failing/successful businesses comes down to risk and how it is handled. A failing business usually takes one of two extremes: “fuck it” or “no way.” A business that isn’t actively failing looks for ways to mitigate risk, no matter how risk adverse it is. From some friends working in the nuclear sector (federal), the government was taking a “fuck it” approach, with some friends saying it was borderline reckless.

Another thing is fear. A failing business gives you worry that your next paycheck won’t be coming. Not only has this happened numerous times to government employees since 2006, I realized how much general fear you live with in the US. As a resident, there was a constant underlying fear of dealing with police, to ending up on a hospital bed and no way to afford it (again). In a successful business, no one is living in fear — maybe stress, but not fear.

Those are the two biggest smells I remember thinking about at the time. Is the US actually going to fail? I don’t think so. I think it’s too big to fail atm. If talent starts leaving the US in droves, that’d be the first harbinger in my opinion. But I can’t see the future and wars are usually good for the US, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see the US provoke Russia or some other country into a pointless war.

mirceal4• 4 years ago

a country is not a startup. actually most things are not startups.

if things didn’t work out for you in the US that’s fine, just don’t assume you can see the future

Glavnokoman• 4 years ago

Why not? It is very young (on countries scale) and burns money of investors without producing much value. Typical startup.

searchableguy9• 4 years ago

Unrelated, there is a trend here. Estonia has been marketing and operating itself like a startup. Many are following it with lithuania introducing e-residency and government services to non-citizens.

It's even more common with island countries where you can buy passports or government services otherwise not available to non-residents in elsewhere without even visiting.

It's 21st century and governments are startups attracting capital and skilled workers (employees).

withinboredom6• 4 years ago

I know that you mean well, but I feel this is a bad-faith argument. The president at the time was specifically saying he wanted to run the government like a business. From many friends who worked in government, that actually happened to some extent.

I never claimed to see the future, only similarities to things I’d seen before, from friends in government to the news.

mariojv2• 4 years ago

EU was a great decision. Do you mind sharing which country you picked, and how the transition was for your family?

One option we are considering is starting our family in the US and moving to the EU slightly later in life, but before the kids would start school. Adoption and surrogacy are generally harder or take longer in the EU, although the processes are substantially the same for same sex and opposite sex married couples, at least in western Europe.

withinboredom6• 4 years ago

We picked the Netherlands for a number of reasons:

- high taxes that you actually see the output of. Also, higher taxes than the US means not paying US taxes due to tax treaties, though you still have to file them.

- Dutch-American Friendship Treaty (DAFT) means you can move here and start a business with minimal investment.

- Our son was 3 when we moved here. He speaks fluent Dutch now and is on his way to learning Spanish and German.

justin662• 4 years ago

I got pretty darn good at sniffing failure. In 2018, I started getting those smells from the US itself. My family packed up and moved to the EU in 2018. I don’t regret it, not for a second.

Was Russia fighting a land war in Europe just a little blip on the radar that has not yet caused you to question your "sniffing" ability?

mdp20213• 4 years ago

That "operation" was the one of the last of the events ranked in the scale of "unforseeable". They said it, said it, said it and did it.

In national terms, there are 200-ish options, not "plenty of fish in the sea".

robocat2• 4 years ago

picking startups that would fail. I got pretty darn good at sniffing failure

Picking failures is easy because the majority of start-ups fail. If you pick failures 50% of the time, and 90% of startups fail, then actually you are really good at picking successes.

withinboredom6• 4 years ago

100% of the first 5-6 businesses I worked at failed. Only one did I stay at beyond the end and help with selling off the IP as a consultant, and given some IP as payment. There was no cash.

But since then, 100% of the businesses I’ve worked at are still in operation today (another 5).

conradev• 4 years ago

there are "four C's" currently driving the investor citizenship industry: COVID-19, climate change, cryptocurrency, and conflict

One of these is not like the others – is someone able to legally avoid US taxes from selling cryptocurrency by holding another citizenship?

dubswithus• 4 years ago

One of these is not like the others – is someone able to legally avoid US taxes from selling cryptocurrency by holding another citizenship?

Not unless they renounce their US citizenship and pay the exit tax.

cm2187• 4 years ago

Hum, not sure you can avoid climate change or covid by moving either. You might escape climate change and covid policies though.

hedora6• 4 years ago

You could look at climate projections and figure out which areas are less screwed than the US.

I wouldn't bet on Europe; the Atlantic currents are near a tipping point where they shut down. That'll cover most of Western Europe in a glacier if it happens. (Go look up European cities' latitudes; the fossil record also backs up this concern.)

Moving to avoid covid policies seems secondary vs. what the Supreme Court is likely to do in the next decade (especially after more justices are appointed by minority-elected presidents and senates).

qgin• 4 years ago

Not a lot of overlap between people concerned with legality and crypto-wealthy seeking multiple passports.

fredgrott• 4 years ago

Nope, the only way to avoid US taxes is to give up US citizenship

TrackerFF• 4 years ago

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesfinancecouncil/2021/11/03...

To renounce, you first have to meet several criteria:

• You must hold citizenship of another country, so you don’t become stateless.

• You have to be up-to-date with your U.S. tax filing, with the past five years submitted.

• You have to attend an exit interview at your nearest U.S. consulate or embassy.

• You have to pay a $2,350 renunciation fee.

• If you have financial assets worth over $2 million, you may have to pay a one-off exit tax calculated as a capital gains tax as if you sold all of your assets on the day you renounced.

---

At least two of those points seem to be pretty prohibitive, if your goal is to avoid taxes on money already earned...

immigrantheart7• 4 years ago

What if your assets are less than $2 million?

sgjohnson9• 4 years ago

• You must hold citizenship of another country, so you don’t become stateless.

This is not actually true for the US. The United States will let you renounce your citizenship even if it leaves you stateless.

RspecMAuthortah• 4 years ago

For my own curiosity.

If you have financial assets worth over $2 million, you may have to pay a one-off exit tax calculated as a capital gains tax as if you sold all of your assets on the day you renounced.

Do you have to pay capital gains taxes on anything over $2 million or wholesale all capital gain?

You have to attend an exit interview at your nearest U.S. consulate or embassy.

Can they reject your exit?

nullc2• 4 years ago

If you have financial assets worth over $2 million, you may have to pay a one-off exit tax calculated as a capital gains tax as if you sold all of your assets on the day you renounced.

Enforcement on that appears to be about zero.

A fair amount of the increase this article is discussing is likely cryptobros inspired by Roger Ver's success-- he renounced US citizenship while owning >40k bitcoin (potentially much more than 40k, that is just what was in his publicly identified wallet) at a near zero cost basis worth over $20 million at the time while paying only about $200k in exit taxes (he tweeted a picture of the exit taxes check), presumably for his non-bitcoin properties.

He even setup a company to help other people get st. kitts passports that promoted evading US taxes as a top level feature.

HWR_143• 4 years ago

If you have enough money that you are renouncing US citizenship to avoid your taxes, then the fee is a rounding error. And I'm quite happy with US citizens who make their money as US citizens paying their taxes on cap gains before they go. Morally it seems superior, and practically it keeps everyone from renouncing their citizenship right before their startup sells.

pzh2• 4 years ago

Not legally, but presumably it’s harder to get caught if you have another citizenship in a country that doesn’t tax crypto.

mypastself4• 4 years ago

The article defines 300% increase in the requests made to a particular company as “skyrocketing”, but I see no base value that this change is measured against. If four dudes got themselves an extra passport as opposed to one in 2019, the numbers start sounding far less impressive.

DeathArrow2• 4 years ago

If three dudes got themselves an extra passport as opposed to one in 2019, the numbers start sounding far less impressive.

If those "dudes" are multi billionaires is still impressive.

mypastself4• 4 years ago

Should we really be drawing any kinds of conclusions based on such a small, statistically insignificant dataset?

sanxiyn• 4 years ago

After a brief search, I checked statistics from Portuguese Immigration and Borders Service. https://www.sef.pt/en/pages/conteudo-detalhe.aspx?nID=51

Residence permit for investment activity. USA. 2019: 65. 2020: 75. 2021 numbers don't seem up yet.

TMWNN• 4 years ago

The article defines 300% increase in the requests made to a particular company as “skyrocketing”, but I see no base value that this change is measured against. If four dudes got themselves an extra passport as opposed to one in 2019, the numbers start sounding far less impressive.

You may be interested in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25367731 , in which @bildung and I discuss German migration to the US over the past 30 years (including 2019 data) as compared to US migration to Germany, and how the German government's statistical office blatantly manipulates data to make Germany look good. As is so often in such cases lately, Trump is involved.

DeathArrow2• 4 years ago

He said his US clients often work in tech, real estate, or crypto, and are worth between $50 million and $20 billion.
The one thing they all have in common: deep-rooted fear about the future of American society, he said.

That tells a lot about the changes that happened in the American society in the recent years.

I wonder if they also try to fight against those changes or they will wait for the situation to degrade more and then leave.

_fat_santa• 4 years ago

Personally I look at it in a much more benign way: Billionaires that are bored and spending their money.

It's not that they genuinely fear the future of American society, it's that they've run out of ideas to protect their wealth and getting a "golden passport" is the next logical step. It's a bit like a regular joe buying one of those "seed backup" (hunk of metal that you write your bitcoin seed phrase on) devices on Amazon.

What are the chances your house will burn down, leaving nothing except this indestructible seed phrase device? I'd say very low. The same can be said for the fears of these billionaires buying foreign passports. The chances of American "turning" is vanishingly small, but when you have money to burn, why not prepare for that scenario too.

setgree• 4 years ago

Conventionally, insurance is a financial instrument designed to hedge against unlikely events, like a house fire. In the US, it’s easy to lose sight of this because we use a product called ‘insurance’ to pay for a bunch of regularly occurring expenses, like medical checkups, but that’s not really insurance, it’s a healthcare plan.

Even if I thought the US was 99.5% likely to remain politically stable in my lifetime, I might still think a second passport is a good idea.

orange_joe• 4 years ago

its possible that what's bad for the billionaire is good for the rest of us. They could just maintain these backups in to evade something like a wealth tax.

peyton• 4 years ago

I’m not aware of any time when capital flight was a good thing for the people left behind.

solenoidalslide• 4 years ago

They have a deep rooted fear for their own interests. What do you think they are going to do?

lazide• 4 years ago

Generally, the more you have (above the mean), the more you worry about losing it.

searchableguy9• 4 years ago

I think this is the right move for most upper middle class folks.

Many big developed and developing countries are increasing their taxes on young people to fund unsustainable pension systems. They are introducing exit taxes, world wide citizen obligations, compulsory reporting overseas, and restricting ease of moving your business elsewhere.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pensions_crisis

Look up pension bombs. If you predict population will stop growing, who will pay for elderly pension and healthcare where majority of funding goes in developed countries?

In times of covid, countries like Australia had greater restriction than China.

immigrantheart7• 4 years ago

Your first and second paragraph seems contradictory or unrelated. Could you explain a bit more?

searchableguy9• 4 years ago

If you are a citizen of a single country and they turn authoritarian like Australia in the period of covid, you are at the mercy of them.

They may restrict your capital flows, shut off your local bank accounts, make it impossible to get out of the country, and a lot more. Every action they take will impact you directly as the passport holder.

So having more passports allow greater freedom and stability in the long run.

Nobody would have thought a highly developed western country would refuse citizen entry before covid.

lostmsu2• 4 years ago

Does not make sense for holders of US passports. Population is still growing quickly.

searchableguy9• 4 years ago

Pension and healthcare system is still unsustainable though. Even if population is growing, it doesn't always mean you can repay the debt back and keep promises. Someone will get taxed unreasonably in future to fund it.

UnpossibleJim4• 4 years ago

The US population, while not declining, has stopped is quick expansion and is headed towards a break even. It grew at 0.1% last year, a record low.

https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/12/us-population...

jollybean• 4 years ago

Wealthy people everywhere do that and it's just one of the things about 'new globalism' that is actually slightly problematic.

ilrwbwrkhv2• 4 years ago

With abortion being made illegal, senile presidents, Capitol invasions, rampant poverty, homelessness, crumbling infrastructure it has become clear that the US is on its way to becoming a failed state like Afghanistan. I think a lot of smart people are seeing the writing on the wall and making escape plans for themselves as well as for their future generations. When Rome falls, not all the wealthy Romans do.

usrn9• 4 years ago

Abortion hasn't been (and won't be) made illegal. It's been "delegated^" back to the states where the decision belongs. There are always going to be liberal states where it's legal. The structure of the US as independent states coordinated by the federal government means people can hold mutually exclusive ideas about law and morality without having to live in separate nations.

^The states really delegate a small number of powers to the federal government, things like murder and abortion aren't among those. This is really the way it was supposed to be and Roe vs Wade was a mistake that undermined the legitimacy of the Supreme Court. So delegation is really the wrong word for this but a surprising number of people here seem to have almost no understanding of American civics.

EDIT, I'm out of quota, here's my reply to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31304544 :

How do you know it won't be made illegal?

This ruling says the federal government has no say in abortion rights. That prevents the federal government from legislating on it. It actually protects your rights from populist right wing mobs on the other side of the continent.

Why do you assert that it was never under the mandate of the federal government? Obviously it's a contended issue.

All of the powers the federal government has are delegated to it in the Constitution. Show me where this one is.

- why do you assert anyone who disagree with you is ignorant? Perhaps they listen to the very loud lobby of anti abortion goals, and view this milestone as part of a trend and extrapolate?

Regardless of how they got confused it's not an accurate view of how American government works and thinking that way is harmful to both sides

EDIT 2, my reply to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31304674:

Here are 13 states that have "trigger laws"

Right, the population there wants it banned, the population in California does not. Now both groups get what they want. It won't be banned in California and, in fact, this ruling makes it harder for republicans to ban it in states like California. This protects your rights if you live in a liberal state.

ilrwbwrkhv2• 4 years ago

Two dozen states and territories would ban it immediately, and 13 have “trigger laws” waiting for the ruling.

mola• 4 years ago

- How do you know it won't be made illegal?

- Why do you assert that it was never under the mandate of the federal government? Obviously it's a contended issue.

- why do you assert anyone who disagree with you is ignorant? Perhaps they listen to the very loud lobby of anti abortion goals, and view this milestone as part of a trend and extrapolate?

cronix• 4 years ago

Abortion hasn't been (and won't be) made illegal.

Here are 13 states that have "trigger laws" that get enacted the instant upon Roe being overruled.

Idaho’s trigger law, for example, would make performing an abortion a felony 30 days after the “issuance of the judgment in any decision of the United States supreme court that restores to the states their authority to prohibit abortion.” The law states that the offense would be punishable by a prison sentence of 2 to 5 years in prison.

https://www.nbcnews.com/data-graphics/map-trigger-law-states...

kevin_b_er• 4 years ago

Here's an open declaration that it would be if they get the chance: https://www.businessinsider.com/mitch-mcconnell-national-abo...

Your view that the Republicans will follow the constitution is flawed. They follow power.

Right, the population there wants it banned, the population in California does not.

This is an incorrect statement. Gerrymandering ensures those populations do not get what they want. They do not have real representation.

UnpossibleJim4• 4 years ago

Here's the problem, Roe v. Wade isn't just about abortion. Birth control legality, gay sex being legal and gay marriage being legal all henge on decisions based on Roe v. Wade. In one fell swoop, the religious right has thrown their religious ideology into the face of a nation that some 80% (I'm not sure of the exact number) of a population doesn't want enforced on the whole of the rest of the population, whether they agree with it or not. We're sliding back towards some back water theocracy that bans books and spies on our population.

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/05/1096732347/roe-v-wade-implica...

Nextgrid• 4 years ago

Unfortunately the breakdown of the political discourse and the factors (including - but not limited to - stupidity) that causes it appears to be spreading to other English-speaking countries too, and I'm sure it's only a matter of time (if it hasn't happened already) that non-English-speaking countries are affected as well.

justin662• 4 years ago

Unfortunately the breakdown of the political discourse and the stupidity that causes it appears to be spreading to other English-speaking countries too, and I'm sure it's only a matter of time (if it hasn't happened already) that non-English-speaking countries are affected as well.

Thank God that kind of thing is currently limited to English-speaking countries.

allthecybers• 4 years ago

Unfortunately the breakdown of the political discourse and the stupidity that causes it appears to be spreading to other English-speaking countries too

This is a good point. I hold passports to the USA and Canada. I have considered moving to Canada over the last five-seven years and I don’t feel like it would be much of an improvement. Taxes, housing and COL are significantly higher and the political climate seems to similarly polarized. And these people seeking greener political pastures are probably taking some political dysfunction with them.

xcambar• 4 years ago

Any european passport is a golden ticket. I was born in Europe and only as an adult with friends from around the world did I realise that.

I feel so blessed.

javert4• 4 years ago

I would happily trade my US citizenship for an EU one. You are lucky.

dorchadas• 4 years ago

Yep. I'm glad I took a masters program in Ireland when I did. Now just to find a job where I can actually live in Dublin and not squeak by... which sadly isn't likely give Irish salaries and how ridiculous Dublin is.

was_a_dev• 4 years ago

Same thing happened with Brexit. Many British citizens looked for applying for second citizenship by descent to maintain EU status.

I myself applied for a Irish passport since my gradparents are Irish citizens.

reom_tobit• 4 years ago

How long did the application take if you don’t mind me asking? (Foreign birth register + passport application)

I looked into it a few years ago but they had such a massive backlog to deal with I was told 24 months, so I put it off.

mardifoufs• 4 years ago

Funnily enough that's the complete opposite for me. I'd trade my canadian passport for an American one anytime

mariojv2• 4 years ago

In my anecdotal experience, it is not just ultra wealthy Americans trying to get second passports.

We can't afford these investment visas, but because of our fear that gay marriage rights may be repealed [0], my husband and I are exploring the possibility of Spanish citizenship via descent. It's unclear if we can even apply before my dad gets it or become citizens without at least a year of residency, but when my dad emailed a major consulate recently, they had an automated message saying there's a 5 day wait for return emails. Their listed phone number also had no response and went to voicemail with no automated message. My in laws are also looking into Mexican citizenship by descent.

I am curious how many folks are fleeing states or looking into it, also. We've checked with our workplaces about relocating out of state (Texas). That seems a lot easier than figuring out visas, but we are really dreading about how far things are going to go.

We're hoping for the best, preparing for the worst. I am sure it is not just UHNW individuals who are preparing.

[0] See:

https://nitter.net/NoLieWithBTC/status/1521912691824148482

https://nitter.net/BrynnTannehill/status/1521481078376181760

and Google around for some op-eds. There's a lot of debate around this and whether stare decisis will outweigh the court's extreme views, but ultimately there's a lot of uncertainty.

toomuchtodo3• 4 years ago

Your in laws might be better served with Mexican permanent residency. The economic solvency requirements are reasonable (about $120k in a savings/investment/retirement account seasoned for a year), and once approved by a Mexican consulate in the US, the process moves very fast once you get to Mexico. There is no upkeep cost, you have it for life once obtained. The only downside is that if you bring a vehicle to Mexico from the US, even temporarily, you’re paying duty on the vehicle’s value.

samstave4• 4 years ago

Serious question, can you drive a rental car to Mexico and not pay duty?

For example, could you have a car here in the us and owned by your llc, or even a friends, and “rent it from them” and drive it around Mexico?

AtlasBarfed2• 4 years ago

Seriously where in Mexico is it safe to live? Especially if you scream "rich kidnappable Americans"?

Anecdotal: Mt friend had two housekeepete from Mexico who were saving to buy air BNB so they could go back to Mexico.

They visited Mexico and were found dead executed on the side of the road.

jhugo5• 4 years ago

There are many countries with investment visas with much lower requirements, it may be worth broadening the search a little.

giantg2• 4 years ago

"I am curious how many folks are fleeing states or looking into it, also."

I'm curious about this too. Are there any past examples or studies about similar situations and migration (segregation, interracial marriage, "legal" pot, gun laws, etc)? I couldn't find anything in a quick search. Just in my personal experience it seems very few people actually move and just talk about it, especially if they talk about leaving the country, like with a specific president winning an election.

gehwartzen• 4 years ago

I am sorry you are going through this. I have dual citizenship in Germany/US which certainly gives me a certain feeling of comfort as having a way out should I feel I need it. For me personally its not gay rights, though those are still very important to me. I would cast your net as wide as possible in looking at various countries that have laws/cultures that are more aligned with your own; some might have much more lax citizenship requirements than others. But as with everything there is usually a trade off.

Moving out of state might also work of course, and it will hopefully over time send a strong message to states like Texas.

Good Luck one way or the other.

PS: btw if you do leave the state, send a quick email to all your reps and perhaps those on the other side of the isle to let them know why you are leaving and how much you contributed to the local economy in order to send a strong message. Might help those left behind in Texas who are in a similar situation to you but have less means to move.

samstave4• 4 years ago

What are the costs and restrictions of getting a passport in another country?

Taxes? Annual reporting of some such?

What happens if your American passport expires, can you fly on whatever foreign one you have only? Or do you need to present your US passport when leaving the US and your foreign one when arriving some place?

Can you fly back into the US only using your Spanish passport?

Would you have to reveal at the border that you are a US citizen? Or just show your foreign one and not mention US citizenship?

codeofdusk• 4 years ago

Taxes? Annual reporting of some such?

US citizens are required to report all worldwide income for taxation. Elsewhere, requirements to pay tax generally depend on residing in the country for some number of days per year.

do you need to present your US passport when leaving the US and your foreign one when arriving some place?

Yes.

Would you have to reveal at the border that you are a US citizen?

At the US border, yes. If, say, you have a European passport and you're entering Europe, you present the European one.

dagw• 4 years ago

What happens if your American passport expires, can you fly on whatever foreign one you have only?

As long as you don't fly to the US. US citizens need a valid US passport to enter the US, even if they also have another passport[1]. Entering the US is literally the only thing I use my US passport for and the only reason I get it renewed.

[1] I guess you can try to lie on your visa/ESTA application and hope they don't notice, but I wouldn't recommend it.

gcanyon2• 4 years ago

I haven’t looked at Spain, but Portugal doesn’t require you to be wealthy — but you do have to live there most of the time for five years.

danielovichdk• 4 years ago

There shouldn't be a second passport option. There should be an always open option to move to another country, given you can provide for yourself.

The world should be open. But people must be able to provide for themselves.

pc862• 4 years ago

None of what you said supports the thesis that there shouldn't be an option to have multiple passports.

Why?

mdp20213• 4 years ago

OP means that "there should be no passports". Which still does not stand, because there where you have free movement that legal position can change and the citizen should inherit pertinence to some side; and even there where you have free movement it is realistically difficult to rule out the existence of some other entities which one may be interested in as document providers.

aiisjustanif2• 4 years ago

No borders would lead to some negative effects for societies and governments. Whether that be currency/economic instability, disease, sovereignty issues, cultural issues with human rights.

We have a long way to go before we even begin a discussion on an open world.

djohnston• 4 years ago

I've taken a paycut in the UK with the aim of getting a second passport. I'm not sure the UK will fare well in a scenario where the US goes full tilt bozo, but being an island surrounded by shitty weather has proven advantageous historically.

jmclnx• 4 years ago

I thought the US prohibited this by law, which to me means you can only have citizenship in the US. To me that means these people should be stripped of their citizenship and deported.

aaomidi2• 4 years ago

I have two citizenships ama.

Hendrikto2• 4 years ago

Which two countries?

Why? Are you spending time in both, or is it just a backup measure?

coffeefirst• 4 years ago

Not at all. Actually, dual citizenship US + Canada or US + European countries is pretty common.

midislack3• 4 years ago

Makes sense, America has been in decline for quite a while. If the violent anarchists which seemed to have the protection of our intelligence and law enforcement communities didn't scare you off, maybe an adjustment of what you thought were rights will. Alinsky will dominate American politics now that everybody knows how it works, and I think it's a good thing. We're all past pretending now.

hall0ween3• 4 years ago

Violent anarchists, who are these? Also, as I am interested to learn, sources would be helpful.

Hendrikto2• 4 years ago

I am guessing the violent MAGA crowd, and people looting and burning stores down.

midislack3• 4 years ago

Wow you forgot about the 2020 summer of terror already, fascinating.

Handytinge• 4 years ago

The fascinating thing is that depending on their politicial preference, you could get a number of answers, each based off their interpretation of real events.

sys_64738• 4 years ago

Irish passport is the golden ticket. Get access to the EU and CTA.

gcanyon2• 4 years ago

Portugal has been the retirement plan for my wife and me since we spent time there six years ago. We’re from Southern California, so the weather feels similar, it’s beautiful, and the people were super nice.

But the key differentiator was health care. We have issues that require multiple medications, and while there we needed refills. The person renting to us said to go to the ER, so we did. We were with a doctor in twenty minutes, who asked us why we had come. We said we had double-checked with the landlord and he insisted that was the right course to take. The doctor said they could have been busy and we would have had to wait, but in any case she was happy to write that refills. All up it took under half an hour and cost under $30.

We’ve been to the ER multiple times in the US and never seen a doctor in less than an hour (except when I had a motorcycle accident, but that’s a different circumstance entirely). And of course no ER visit in the US costs less than thousands of $$$.

And filling the prescriptions cost less than the copay in the US.

Retirement is some time away, so I hope the wealthy don’t screw it up for us :-/

Wealthy Americans are buying second passports as a 'plan B'

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