Dyslexie: A typeface for dyslexics

http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2011/06/30/dyslexie-a-typeface-for-dyslexics/

by pvilchez • 15 years ago

201 65 15 years ago

wccrawford2• 15 years ago

In the video is says that dyslexic readers made fewer errors when reading the text than normal readers, and they think that means that it helps dyslexics read easier.

What kind of experiment is that? If you want to know if it helps dyslexics, you don't change out the dyslexics... You change out the font!

It sounds like they either don't understand experimentation at all, or they borrowed someone else's results and tried to read things into them.

Edit: As noted below, they apparently actually did test whether dyslexics could read that font better or not. They just also happened to test normal people as well, to see if they were affected. The video confuses this.

starwed• 15 years ago

The video contained a lot of weird phrasings, probably due to translation... I'd assume that this is more of that.

Fester2• 15 years ago

Well, it is a nice solution to make someone's life easier when there are no signs of a cure coming. For example, this font could be set up as a system's default (or even it could be enforced as the 'one and only' typeface) and thus it will make dyslexic's life better. IMO it's a win.

Also you should note, that this font was created by a dyslexic, so I think he knows what he is doing.

wccrawford2• 15 years ago

He probably knows how to help himself, but that doesn't necessarily mean he knows how to help others.

However, I did find some ideas that I thought might be helpful. In particular, making each letter bottom-heavy and making each letter different than other letters, so that if you rotate them, they aren't identical.

Sadly, it appears that either doesn't work, or he didn't make drastic enough changes.

I actually like the look of the font, though, when it's large enough.

rgjvanderdussen• 15 years ago

According to the master's thesis there are no significant main effects: http://www.ilo.gw.utwente.nl/ilo/attachments/032_Masterthesi...

I could imagine that this works well for specific kinds of dyslexia.

gus_massa• 15 years ago

I agree.

I read the tables in the thesis. There are 12 comparations between the Arial and the Dyslexie fonts, but only 2 of then have p<.1 and none of them has p<.05. So it is very difficult to know if the differences between the fonts are real or come from random noise.

They made a font that they think is better for people with dyslexia, they tried it, but they found almost no difference. This work is only a master thesis, so perhaps they are planning to continue working on this. But for now it is not a "cure" for dyslexia.

---

I think that the problem is that they didn’t do enough "beta"-testing. (Perhaps they did it, but it is not in the thesis.) With infinity time, money and resources, they should:

* Find a small group people with dyslexia.

* Do some A/B testing on them for one year. Compare two fonts with very little difference. For example in one font the dot of the i has the normal size and in the other font the dot is bigger.

* Perhaps, from time to time, change the group of people, to be sure that the font is good for "normal" people with dyslexia, not only for the trained group that is in the laboratory.

* Perhaps, from time to time, try some bigger changes, but measure the improvement.

* Find a new bigger group people with dyslexia.

* Compare with this people the difference between the original and the final font.

lloeki3• 15 years ago

The approach is weird because it focuses on shapes:

"many of the letters look similar – such as v/w, i/j and m/n – thus people with dyslexia often confuse these letters"

Dyslexic people usually don't confuse letters M and N, they confuse M and P. Notice how they don't relate in any sort of way. This shows how much of a brainfuck (no offense) it is to live with dyslexia, and how hard it is for non-dyslexic to understand the disability.

To make an object-oriented parallel, dyslexic people know very well the difference between two classes (concepts), but when seeing or creating instances (realisation), they can't seem to make heads or tails of which one belongs to which class. So the instances m of class M and p of class P will get processed as some mashup M/P. The only way out is to work around the mashup by tying M class and P class each to another unrelated concept, but related to the instances.

So as an example, the letter 'm' is linked to the word 'marmalade' (which is an instance of the concept of 'Marmalade') and p to the word peanut (itself an instance of Peanut). 'Marmalade' and 'Peanut' being hopefully[0] unrelated, the person can find a solution by linking concepts (not instances) 'M' to 'Marmalade' and 'P' to 'Peanut', so that when the person tries to process the word 'motor', instead of being faced with a dreadful (M/P).O.T.O.R. they will be able work around the issue by thinking (Marmalade).O.T.O.R.

I took the 'm' shape which is present in both 'marmalade' and 'motor' as a link vector, but really any vector will do, and people use an extremely diverse array of vectors and associations. One can end up linking 'm' to 'Green' just because for some reason seeing a 'm' makes him thing of the color (hence concept) 'Green' whereas 'p' will be tied to 'Red'. Being able to break the M/P mashup is the key, and whatever association will do, so it just happens that M/P+Green == M for someone.

[0] I said 'hopefully', because concepts of any level can result in a mashup. If for some reason the mashup Marmalade/Peanut exists, it will be of no help to map m to Marmalade.

skrebbel• 15 years ago

Please blame the messenger. See http://www.ilo.gw.utwente.nl/ilo/index.php?option=com_conten... for the M.Sc. thesis' conclusions.

Notably:

Students read the reading tests EMT and Klepel twice. Once printed in the font Arial and once in the font “Dyslexie”. The order was randomly assigned and in-between the reading tests an auditory task was fulfilled.

Thus, the study measured whether Dyslexie reads better than Arial. Maybe Georgia reads even better.

george_morgan• 15 years ago

Related, the Read Regular project: http://www.readregular.com/english/background.html

pygy_• 15 years ago

> The Read Regular typeface is not available for purchase.

... and of course, neither to download for free.

What's the point of this font? Is it used beyond the promotional web site?

I didn't try to contact the creator because I don't have any specific need for the font right now, but I think that she's doning a disservice to dyslexic people by not publishing it under a Creative Commons license.

manveru• 15 years ago

  No part of this site may be reproduced, stored in any form,
  electronically, mechanically, by photocopying, recording or
  any other way without written permission from
  Natascha Frensch.

Does that include the URL and what i just quoted?

Some people really don't understand the web.

kaddar• 15 years ago

Does the kindle support custom fonts? It would be cool if one could experiment with this and other modern fonts focusing on readibility

tarkin22• 15 years ago

Exactly what I was thinking. They'd be a good market for this kind of thing.

inconditus• 15 years ago

If you jailbreak it and install a Chinese firmware (Duokan) it supports custom fonts.

JeanPierre• 15 years ago

Interestingly, the much hated font Comic Sans is another good font for dyslexics because the letters look more different from each other than e.g. Times New Roman. Therefore, if you're making invitations to your son's 7-year old birthday, Comic Sans is a great font for the text.

spinchange• 15 years ago

I was wondering if some of these same principles didn't apply to Comic Sans while watching this.

Unrelated to dyslexia, I noticed watching some old Mac world videos that Jobs used to use Comic Sans a lot.

ams61103• 15 years ago

The dyslexie font did remind me of Comic Sans right away.

ignifero• 15 years ago

Anecdotally, I set my linux theme fonts to Comic Sans because i find it fun and easy to read, and I 'm not dyslexic.

antihero4• 15 years ago

Anecdotal, but the dyslexics I know say that Comic Sans is utterly awful to read, especially in something like a PowerPoint presentation.

petercooper• 15 years ago

I admit I know little about this area so I'm just throwing this out there for wiser people to comment on. I heard on a reasonably authoritative radio show/podcast (can't remember what, but something like a BBC Radio 4) that the incidence of dyslexia in countries with simpler relationships between letters and phonemes (sounds) had significantly lower reported levels of dyslexia. Italy and Spain, for example. They were trying to make the point that languages with more consistent phonetics are less likely to bring up issues that would identify someone as dyslexic.

kls• 15 years ago

As a dyslexic and with only a little knowledge of Spanish I would say that it is probably true. When I was learning the little bit of Spanish I know it did seem easier to infer the correct word and spelling. In the end that is what a lot of dyslexics learn to do to cope. They infer the word. Many times they get them wrong but with certain fonts it is easier than trying to read it.

One thing about this issue that never really gets covered is that with repetition dyslexics can improve their condition. One of the main reasons I read and post it to ensure that I am constantly working to improve my ability to do so. Many times kids become discouraged and end up abandoning written language due to difficulties with their condition. It only serves to worsen their condition. I for example was given a computer at an early age to help with my dyslexia, I was allowed to submit all papers typed and I was excused from handwriting assignments due to being deemed to have a learning disability. This was both a blessing and a curse, it was a blessing because I became exposed to computers but a curse in the fact that to this day I am functionally illiterate when it comes to handwriting. My handwriting looks more akin to sandscript than English. I can read it and understand it, but to someone else it is an entirely different language. Fortunately they have better policies for learning disabilities now days and use a combined approach.

On an unrelated note, there are a lot of dyslexics (the ones that don't get discouraged or use their condition as a crutch) that end up in the math and science fields. It has been theorized that these people's ability to see textual items as 3D objects some how aids in their ability to visualize abstract concepts.

I know when I do higher level math I do not see numbers. I see objects that are represented by the numbers. I think for many just starting out in higher maths, variables are a difficult concept, but when you see each items as a object it helps one to look at all items in a equation as a variable some just have known values. I think dyslexics grasp this concept earlier because it is inherently how their mind works. Unfortunately many dyslexics never make it that far due to years of failing in academics.

gte910h2• 15 years ago

Where do you get the font?

shoesfullofdust2• 15 years ago

It appears to be licensed through http://www.lexima.nl/school-en-behandelaar/categorie/lettert...

google translate: http://translate.google.ca/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl...

SebMortelmans• 15 years ago

insane expensive, anyone has another source?

norova• 15 years ago

I appreciate the work they have done and have a great respect for the amount of research and effort behind this, but I really wish it was more affordable.

My girlfriend is dyslexic and is struggling (even with reading lessons, etc.) through college because of it. I had her read the example in the video and some of the text on their site and she was able to do so much more efficiently. I'd love to be able to purchase this font for her so she can use it when reading/writing documents for her classes, but the amount they are asking is simply too much for me.

I wonder if we'd be able to convince her health insurance to reimburse us for the cost? I can dream. :)

shoesfullofdust2• 15 years ago

Additional information can be found on the designer's website: http://www.studiostudio.nl/en/project-dyslexie/

hammmatt• 15 years ago

This is very anecdotal naturally. But I am a dyslexic and it was really a struggle for me as a little kid. I don't like reading very much because it is a frustrating endeavor. I like information, I like thinking, and I guess I have favored smaller condensed pieces when reading. Perhaps why I love this website

I can attest though that upon seeing the paragraph written at the end of the video that the text was much easier to read. I was really quite blown away with it. I'm all for this, and really hope it can get spread around.

I don't think you can make someone who is not a reader become one. But I think like anyone who can't do something by a limitation when it is removed you have a new found respect for what you didn't have. It may not be a big market, but trust me there is a market here.

I'm going to download all of these on every part of my system that I can tonight.

ams61103• 15 years ago

I don't have much trouble with reading text but I am prone to transposing digits when I read numbers (particularly long numbers such as phone numbers, credit card numbers, account numbers). I wonder if there is a sub-type of dyslexia that is limited to numbers?

seabee• 15 years ago

Dyscalculia. I've known other people have that same problem too; thankfully it's more annoying than demoralising like dyslexia can be.

ebiester• 15 years ago

As a non-dyslexic, I was surprised how much easier this font was to read. Do you see a link to the typeface?

VladRussian2• 15 years ago

it felt very natural, and, being non-dyslexic as well, i caught myself waiting for it to become dyslexic distorted...

pavel_lishin• 15 years ago

Do you find it easier or harder to read under fluorescent lamps?

baddox• 15 years ago

I don't understand why/how some of the changes they've made would help dyslexics immediately. Perhaps you could explain.

It seems like most of the changes were arbitrary (e.g. rotation, making the lower parts bolder) and designed to make two otherwise similar characters distinct. Wouldn't that require a learning period, to figure out which characters were changed in which ways? If you don't know (reflexively from memory) whether they rotated the `i` or the `j`, the rotation won't help anything.

eavc• 15 years ago

In the video, they explain it as embracing the conception of the letters as being 3d objects. The added weight in the lower parts would intuitively anchor that letter in that orientation. Perhaps a 'j' should be tilted due to its asymmetry.

As for my $.02, I think the mix-ups often occur in real-time due to proximity. Making the symbols distinct would perhaps lessen the likelihood that the brain will try to identify those conceptual objects as a unity when they are near one another.

dholowiski• 15 years ago

I know it's totally off topic but did anyone else read thar article on an iPad? The theme they're using is a bad attempt at making the site work like an ebook and it sucks.

giberson• 15 years ago

A few questions for dyslexics:

1) Is it consistent? Do you have have trouble with the same letters/letter pairings? Or do different words tend to have different effects?

2) Normal readers tend to read the "word" and not the individual letters. Do/Can dyslexics do the same? As an example, if for instance dyslexics commonly were to transpose the "o" and "u" combination "ou" to "uo" I'm wondering if dyslexics read the jumbled "yuo" immediately as "you" or, does dyslexia prevent you from even recognizing the pattern and you have to laboriously read "y" "u" "o", transpose "o" and "u" and recognize "you".

The reason I ask is because I'm curious if such a typeface might actually be hurtful to dyslexic readers. While the typeface is easier to read for dyslexics I wonder if using such a type face for initial reading education would have a side effect. When the reader switches to non dyslexic type faces, %99.99 the rest of all digital type, they will have diminished capacity for reading those texts (more so than having learned to cope with the frequent errors of those type faces)?

In other words, might the best solution to be educating dyslexics by recognizing they may see different or multiple letter patterns for certain words and simply train them to recognize each possible version of those letter patterns?

IE. Here's a vocabulary sheet for Johny, a non dyslexic child:

    "mouse" - a small four legged mammal.
    "house" - a building you live in.

The same vocabulary sheet for Mikey, a dyslexic child.

    "mouse", "muose" - a small four legged mammal.
    "house", "huose" - a building you live in.

Granted I'm very ignorant of this disorder and I may be over simplifying it. But my ultimate question and I don't mean it to sound cold or callous, but might it be better to focus efforts on teaching dyslexics to deal with it?

TechNewb• 15 years ago

As a dyslexic, what you say is interesting. I think this font is a step in the right direction, for at least causing greater awareness. But I would like to try and read a short story in it, and see if it helps.

A dyslexic does not necessarily know that they are reading something wrong, and spelling can be extremely difficult. Words like 'pleasant', are still extremely hard words for me to spell. So I don't think teaching Mikey multiple spellings would make it any easier for him to spell, but at least he would have a greater understanding of what's going on.

I use text-to-speech technology to read most material on the internet, and find that that helps the most for me right now.

l0c0b0x2• 15 years ago

My dyslexia becomes more noticeable when reading large paragraphs. I love to read, even though I have to re-read paragraphs (sometimes more than 3 times). Some font types, of course, do help so this is something that I look for every time I have to read something.

I've been reading like this since I can remember. I feel my brain is working double-time TRYING to decipher whats in a text, and while making sense of it... it's a bit annoying if you think about it, but you learn to live with it.

Now, the experience in reading is the same experience I get when I go to watch a movie in 3D, which I hate! (with a passion)

rickmode• 15 years ago

Question 1

I find the font easier to read, but I became and avid reader after getting diagnosed and given private reading lessons in the 2nd grade (circa 1977). I suspect I retrained by brain with constant reading from that point onward.

By contrast, my sister who is 11 years older didn't get diagnosed young, and still struggles to read. Though she can read these days, she has a strong preference for audiobooks. When studying, she listens at 3x to 4x speed. Crazy fast. For personal reading she uses 1x to 2x.

Today here's what I can see (and since this is self reported, take it with a grain of salt):

a. I'm a slow reader compared to other avid readers. I read much faster than people that don't read often; I read about half as fast (or less) as my college friends that are avid readers.

b. For sentences or paragraphs displayed briefly (as happens in movies or TV shows), I get so worried about finishing the sentence, I often can't finish in the time the wording is shown. (So in this case I'm guessing I'm much slower than average.) I'd guess this is "test anxiety" [1]. Taking tests as a kid was torture. Example, I was relaxed taking my SATs and got 1250 (did it in one shot), for my ACTs, I was distracted and buzzing around in my head, and scored below the 50 percentile.

c. Answer "right / left" question is not automatic. I always have to think. I imagine pointing from my shoulder through my arm in the direction I'm thinking. (Perhaps every one does this.) I just know there's a small mental pause.

d. I struggle with unfamiliar but initial concepts or names. For example, when learning object-oriented programming, it took a bit for me to grok class vs object. Usually this forces a deep understanding, which in the end is great, but can be a slow learning process.

Question 2

I certainly read by whole words today. The problem (major difference) with dyslexics is the process of learning to read. When learning to read, dyslexics read in "chunks" and by word shape - basically seeing the word as whole, not the individual letters. I recall the uneven scanning. I also recall thinking "who the heck are these other kids learning this?" because I could see no rhyme or reason. AFAIK, kids normally clearly see the letters making up the words. I needed intense phonics training to "get" this.

Education (phonics training) is absolutely critical. Your "mouse"/"house" examples are exactly the kinds of intense flashcard things I went through. Day after day, card after card.

The Dyslexie font should be complimentary. I seriously doubt it would be a substitute. Many fonts explicitly emphasis readability - Dyslexie attempts to increase legibility for a non-standard brain type.

I think the font rocks, and I've love to get my hands on the font to live with it for a while.

[1] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Test_anxiety

jerf• 15 years ago

"When learning to read, dyslexics read in "chunks" and by word shape - basically seeing the word as whole, not the individual letters. I recall the uneven scanning."

I've wondered if dyslexia could be mitigated/cured by modifying a text reader to pulse the letters in sequence, thus giving the brain something to latch on to. Perhaps tie it in with an eye tracker. Gradually, you could reduce the strength of the pulse until they are reading normally, perhaps maybe. This idea was based on a theory that I heard that dyslexia may fundamentally stem from a timing issue in the brain; well, perhaps we could train that directly.

I have nobody to try this on, though, so I haven't done anything with it.

ams61103• 15 years ago

Answer "right / left" question is not automatic. I always have to think. I imagine pointing from my shoulder through my arm in the direction I'm thinking. (Perhaps every one does this.) I just know there's a small mental pause.

Interesting, I have that problem as well, also with compass directions (I often have to visualize a map to be sure I know whether I want to go "east" or "west" on a road. Also mentioned elsewhere on this page I transpose numbers a lot. I have no trouble reading though, and was a fairly avid reader when I was younger (don't have time for pure reading for pleasure much these days).

wizard_2• 15 years ago

I'm going to say no. I'm dyslexic and dysgraphic and I deal with it, but it's only after many years of practice and by doing most of my writing on a keyboard. (I'm still not so good with written numbers.)

The best way I've heard it explained is that the word CAT doesn't look like a cat. A quick google search found this. http://dyslexiavictoria.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/dyslexic-pr...

"Also the alphabet is a type of abstract concept that Dyslexics have a frustrating time trying to learn because unless the letters are part of a word they don’t mean anything other than sounds. Dyslexics need concrete real images that can be connected to symbols such as words and numerals. “C – A – T” are sounds but do not bring up any images of real things. The word “CAT” however can be imagined."

Showing a kid the wrong spelling will only confuse them. (Writing was already confusing.) I was told growing up that my mind was trying really hard to find a cat in the letters, it flipped them around, held them upside down, put them on top of each other, and nothing looks like a cat. You don't actually see anything move (common question) but I used to stare at words trying to make sense of them. I don't know enough about cognition to tell you actually how it works.

I think if you can short circuit some of these wasted cycles it might help dyslexic kids pick up on what reading and writing actually is a bit faster. I'd give the font a try but they're using some sort of vector JS based font rendering (Cufon) and I don't know how to get that back to a ttf. But I doubt it would have much of an effect on myself anyway as I've learned how to read and write a long time ago.

Just my 2c

quicksilver03• 15 years ago

That resembles what I, as a colorblind person, feel about colors. For me "yellow" or "green" are just definitions that other people make up, and they change the definition all the time. I cannot see any relation between an object and its "color" property.

mike_ivanov• 15 years ago

I really want a fixed-width version of this font.

VladRussian2• 15 years ago

emphasizing the differences between letters reminded about the hand writing recognition on Palm.

tarkin22• 15 years ago

The font is rendered via HTML5's canvas, incidentally.

bauchidgw• 15 years ago

warning: dont visit the nextweb.com with an ipad, they use some horrible horrible swipe/touch/die suckware, go to the source instead http://www.studiostudio.nl/en/project-dyslexie/

cpeterso• 15 years ago

A similar idea is DPCustomMono2, a font adapted by "Distributed Proofreaders" project to make proofreading for mistakes easier. It's not the prettiest font, but it is effective.

http://www.pgdp.net/c/faq/font_sample.php

tokenadult• 15 years ago

The statement in the video "dyslexics rotate the letters" is largely untrue. For some really cool details on reading research, see Reading in the Brain: The New Science of How We Read

http://www.amazon.com/Reading-Brain-New-Science-Read/dp/B004...

by a neuroscientist who has studied these issues for years and who is familiar with the difference that different scripts make in reading difficulties.

antihero4• 15 years ago

Can anyone find a TTF/OTF on that site? Incidentally, the text on this page looks like utter shit:

http://www.studiostudio.nl/en/project-dyslexie/ http://i.imgur.com/xhjKI.png

At least in comparison to the video.

tagnu_2• 15 years ago

Regarding the font. If you are on Windows XP, enable Font Smoothing.

Desktop properties > Appearances > Effects > [x] Use the following methods to smooth edges of screen fonts: Select [Standard]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YITsgCuHhUk/TgnPnR-FzUI/AAAAAAAAAB...

antihero4• 15 years ago

I'm on Ubuntu, font smoothing is fine for anything that doesn't use some weird JS to render it as opposed to something rational and sane like @font-face. Thanks for trying to help, though.

pasbesoin• 15 years ago

For those who are not color blind, what about varying the colors? For different letters. Or, working from the presented idea of letter shapes to reinforce orientation,changing color within a letter (e.g., "blue = bottom")?

Dyslexie: A typeface for dyslexics

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