Employee accused of skipping work for 15 years

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56822571

87 83 5 years ago

bbc.co.uk

patates• 5 years ago

That made me vaguely remember the story someone once upon a time posted somewhere about his position being obsolete and going to work doing nothing... It's been so long, I don't remember enough details to search for it. Maybe someone here would help me out.

Edit: I meant exactly what Tomte posted (see below), thanks!

Tomte• 5 years ago

https://sites.google.com/site/forgottenemployee/

nicolas_t• 5 years ago

This could rather easily be turned into a decent movie.

boxfoxdox• 5 years ago

That was a good one thanks :)

codethief• 5 years ago

Slightly nicer format for reading, along with some background info: https://github.com/bibanon/bibanon/wiki/American-Dream

bori5• 5 years ago

https://youtu.be/bU6m5UqLx9M

dukeofharen• 5 years ago

Reading this also reminded me of this: https://web.archive.org/web/20160523114950/https://www.reddi...

Joeri• 5 years ago

Reminds me of this story of a civil servant who was told to stay home until called, fired 5 years later when they discovered he had been paid all that time without working, ordered to pay back those 5 years of wages, fought it in court for another 6 years, and in the end won 11 years of wages.

https://www.hln.be/binnenland/ambtenaar-krijgt-211-000-euro-...

adamors• 5 years ago

So a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-show_job ?

yosito• 5 years ago

The employee was a civil servant [in southern Italy], and was assigned to a job in the hospital in 2005. It was at this point he stopped going into work, the police said.
The police have also accused him of threatening his manager to stop her from filing a disciplinary report against him.

The article gives a much different impression than the headline. Corrupt civil servant using threats of violence to siphon money under the cover of "employment" is much different than some rando playing hookey and getting away with it.

ulzeraj• 5 years ago

I thought it was going to be one of those fun stories about a sysadmin automating his work and it takes years to for their employers to realize that he've been doing nothing.

This one however I feel no sympathy. I hope the public funds parasite gets punished.

s_dev• 5 years ago

Reading between the lines -- is this Mafia related?

bobthechef3• 5 years ago

Not an unreasonable suspicion. How often do you get to threaten your manager like that unless you have something to back it up with? And Italy, especially the south, is notorious for Mafia presence. Heck, they bombed a church when Francis condemned them.

throwaway0a5e8• 5 years ago

This kind of thing is rampant in Italy's public sector (and other nations as well). They basically just found one of the worst offenders (i.e. the guy that half the public sector employees aim to be) and are making an example out of him.

The timing relative to other government misconduct in Italy is suspiciously convenient I might add.

If this wasn't broadly considered ok he wouldn't have gotten away with it for 15yr and they wouldn't be going back 15yr to find "alleged threats" he made. Based on my experience the threat was something less like "imma bust a cap in yo ass" and more likely along the lines of "you know everyone does this and if you take a hard stance on this misconduct your career progression is dead" which is something that not everyone has to be explicitly told but a situation that damn near every career public servant (not just in Italy) will have to deal with at some point.

toyg4• 5 years ago

See my other response about why you’re wrong about threats. This was beyond normal, it’s part of proceedings against 57 people involved in a scheme in the same hospital. Between this and the threats, chances are that “somebody” was managing the hospital as their personal cash machine.

jakub_g2• 5 years ago

This was already on HN yesterday (108 points, 107 comments)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26889281

lifeisstillgood• 5 years ago

Oh I did not catch that.

jakub_g2• 5 years ago

Since it got points, it means other missed it too :) No worries.

JI00912• 5 years ago

The employee was a civil servant

Apparently he wasn't. :)

andoli2• 5 years ago

As an italian, i'm a bit amazed that BBC wrote an article about this, and also that someone posted here on HN. As someone already pointed out, reminds me of the forgotten employee tale, except this guy is probably mafia.

camillomiller• 5 years ago

Came to say this. A random employee threat to a manager isn’t normally swept under the carpet. A threat from someone from a ‘ndrangheta background (the Calabrian mafia) on the other hand...

This would explain also why a lot of the other managers involved were happy to forget about him for so long.

Udik3• 5 years ago

A random employee threat to a manager isn’t normally swept under the carpet

Do you think that managers in Calabria actually check if the threat came from an actual 'ndrangheta affiliate or not? I think it's simply a matter of "looking dangerous" and the idea (probably correct) that reporting to the police is much more risky than just doing nothing. Anyone who has little to lose can behave in the same threatening way where there is no repercussion to be feared.

throwaway0a5e8• 5 years ago

Everyone in these comments is naively assuming the guy threatened to actually harm someone and it's absolutely infuriating. Has nobody here ever seen the kind of deviance that goes on in a large administrative organization or bureaucracy before?!

It's almost certainly a not a "imma bust a cap in yo ass" threat and more along the lines of a "people higher than you and me in the org chart tacitly condone this behavior and your career is gonna be a dead end if you narc on me" type of threat.

Mauricebranagh• 5 years ago

When I read the bit about threats that was my thoughts "play nice or uncle tony will pay you a visit"

roel_v• 5 years ago

It's all over all sorts of EU media, I think in no small part fueled by 'remind me why we're giving Italy 222 BILLION euros in Covid recovery money when they spend it like this?' thinking. Which on the one hand is fair enough; on the other, articles like this coming out shows that you're trying to improve things. The general idea in the rest of Europe is that this sort of thing is rampant in the South, I don't know to what extent that is correct. Anecdotes online suggest that it's not a completely isolated incident, at the least.

mxxc• 5 years ago

not sure if you're italian but to add insult to injury italians themselves complain about EU fund usage in the south :)

it is true however that between arrest and initial prosecution the justice system in italy is very trigger happy (whether people stay in jail is a different story) and it makes a good story for the press. there are examples elsewhere where law enforcement is a lot more magnanimous. not defending this case at all but in general this might partially explain why italy is more on the spotlight than other places.

andoli2• 5 years ago

Ah! Thanks for pointing this out, i didn't know the news was under such attention on EU media. Corruption and criminal infiltration is indeed very common expecially in southern regions. the worries of mafia getting hands on those money are very real unfortunately...

jrochkind12• 5 years ago

Different countries have different ways of wasting money, but glass houses.

In the USA, wasted money mostly goes to execs and shareholders rather than workers, but I doubt the scale is less. From today's news...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/21/us/politics/emergent-john...

Federal Inspectors Fear More Vaccines Were Exposed to Contamination
Last month, up to 15 million doses of Johnson & Johnson’s vaccine had to be discarded at Emergent’s factory in Baltimore. A new report says problems were not fully investigated and other doses may be compromised.
…Though the government gave Emergent a $163 million contract in 2012 to ready the Baltimore plant for mass production in a pandemic, the site remained largely untested, and the company did not meet a requirement for demonstrating its rapid-response capabilities… Nonetheless, the government went on to award Emergent a $628 million contract last June…
… In another finding, the F.D.A. regulators wrote that the Bayview building “is not maintained in a clean and sanitary condition.” Nor is it “of suitable size, design and location to facilitate cleaning, maintenance and proper operations,” they said.
…Throughout 2020, its founder and chairman, Fuad El-Hibri, cashed in shares and options worth over $42 million, and the company’s chief executive, Robert Kramer, was recently awarded a $1.2 million cash bonus.

miohtama• 5 years ago

Reminds me of the Greek island of blind where 10% of population claimed blindness benefits

https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2012/0430/Greek-islan...

pbhjpbhj2• 5 years ago

That's a great fluff piece to bury the PM having just been caught in corruption ... can you see that story in the top 10 "most read" ...

The story is there, it's hidden in a "top 5 things about Covid today".

When something random and unimportant hits the top of BBC news in recent years that seems to mean there's a story on Tory failure/corruption being buried.

switch007• 5 years ago

This, so much this. It's top 5 most read (#5) for me.

estaseuropano• 5 years ago

I don't see any corruption article on the BBC page.

pessimizer• 5 years ago

It was very difficult to find: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56839459

bobthechef3• 5 years ago

The BBC a Tory newspaper?

Wow, that's a new one. Is the NYTimes a Republic rag then?

dijit• 5 years ago

Real talk, so please read charitably:

1) BBC has a policy of not going hard against the sitting government, this seems to be true regardless of who's in charge.

2) BBC is a large organisation, they have parts which are more pro-tory and others which are more anti-tory, but overall the anti-tory stuff will be a bit more curbed due to point 1.

3) David Cameron stacked the board with pro-tory people, this has little effect on the actual stories since the board has no direct involvement, but this could lead to a tory bias in some cases.

citation on point 3: https://www.ft.com/content/7ba884c2-176d-11e6-b197-a4af20d55...

easytiger2• 5 years ago

You have to be in possession of a particularly warped mind to believe that this story is published to bury another story. That is conspiratorial nonsense.

pbhjpbhj2• 5 years ago

What do you think is the most important news today in the UK?

Why do you suppose BBC have published this news story (front page, as of now for me) about how brilliant Dyson is but without any information on the corruption case? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46149743

apples_oranges• 5 years ago

Massive HR fail or fraud..

rvba• 5 years ago

Mafia?

jcims• 5 years ago

Peak psychological safety.

leroy_masochist• 5 years ago

Nice, a real-life case of "Quo Vado" (check it out on Netflix)

forinti• 5 years ago

Reminds me of the Spanish bloke who studied Spinoza while he should have been working.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/12/long-lunch-spa...

KoftaBob• 5 years ago

New York LIRR employees: "he didn't get overtime pay for the fake hours? what a rookie".

bobthechef3• 5 years ago

No joke. If you work "too hard", apparently fellow MTA employees will kindly as you to "slow down".

nullifidian• 5 years ago

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2012/09/07/160748725/epis...

This Planet Money podcast pretty much explains it.

JetSetWilly• 5 years ago

About a decade ago (or more) I knew a chap who had worked for a bank in Gran Canaria. He resigned, in order to leave for the mainland, but to his surprise his salary kept being deposited in his account.

Rather than report this, he spent the next year "on holiday" at full pay, until eventually someone realised and the money stopped appearing. He said he felt a bit aggrieved by this - as though he was entitled to it.

There was no follow up action by the bank. I expect that it is a bit embarrassing for a bank to make such a mistake and so they just decided to sweep it under the rug.

thret• 5 years ago

There's three phases to any ongoing favour: 1. Gratitude 2. Taking it for granted 3. Expecting it as a right

bob332122• 5 years ago

At least he wasn't slowing anyone down. I have been in several meetings with "Project Managers" who waste everyone's time asking for dates and estimates for their spreadsheet even after I have explained that this is an iterative process and we cannot expect to know in detail what tasks will be complete on which days and that we should give general updates with a rough ETA of completion every 2 weeks instead.

ABeeSea• 5 years ago

No one expects the date to be right. But you have to have a plan to iterate on and learn from. “Plans are useless, but planning is indispensable.”

marcosdumay• 5 years ago

No one expects the date to be right.

I have never seen this in practice. On my experience, every single person that pushes for estimations expects your date to be right.

bob332122• 5 years ago

Then don't write any dates down. It is a basic communication skill to avoid sending out a spreadsheet with dates on it when you know those dates are not expected to be met. Someone reading it is going to assume that there is a problem if tasks are not completed by the date on the spreadsheet.

datavirtue2• 5 years ago

Just give them a date so they shut up. Whatever date, is fine.

rootusrootus• 5 years ago

I have an acquaintance who goes to work at a pretty boring 9-5 IT job for a local insurance company. Sits down at his desk for a bit in the morning, then gets a cup of coffee, puts it on his desk, hangs his coat on the back of his chair, and leaves. Heads over to his real day job as a salesman for a local Mercedes dealer. Towards the end of the workday he heads back to the office, cleans up his work area, and goes home. Every day, like clockwork.

Sometimes I wonder how often stuff like that happens and we don't hear about it.

It isn't lost on me that I can (and sometimes do) accomplish a completely satisfactory amount of work for my job in a couple hours each morning. Now that we're remote, if I were so inclined I bet I could hold down a second job and not go over 40 hours of total work time.

Rendello• 5 years ago

Although the body of the story was quite different, the headline reminded me of this, "Forgotten Employee" (also mentioned in yesterday's thread):

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17332440

SaltyBackendGuy• 5 years ago

Now that we're remote, if I were so inclined I bet I could hold down a second job and not go over 40 hours of total work time.

We had a guy do exactly that recently. He was working another full time job for several months before being terminated. Funny thing is, he got caught because he updated his LinkedIn.

y-c-o-m-b• 5 years ago

Now that we're remote, if I were so inclined I bet I could hold down a second job and not go over 40 hours of total work time.

It can totally be done... BUT I would not recommend it because the stress load can be extremely high. For one, you're constantly in fear of getting caught (even though many places have a friendly moonlighting clause now). You may have to juggle two meetings at the same time - which can also be done - though there's always that chance you'll be asked to participate actively in both. The money is nice, but the stress sucks

KingOfCoders• 5 years ago

I thought that was only a thing in the Sopranos :-)

rurban• 5 years ago

I am under the impression that this more of the regular case in Greece. There is no need to threaten your manager, because the manager also would have a second job elsewhere.

Cosmin_C• 5 years ago

This is an obligatory watch with this thread - https://youtu.be/WDiB4rtp1qw

tpoacher• 5 years ago

I have a counterexample to this story.

I was once paid an extra £20k pounds by the NHS. I promptly contacted payroll, but just got canned responses. This continued for another 2 months, with me sending repeated emails informing of the mistake. The overpayments stopped eventually, but my constant emails trying to arrange a repayment continued for 1 year. I even went to payroll in person, and they basically asked me to go back home and send a letter.

The whole thing ended abruptly when I sent a "final" email to inform them my contract was coming to an end, and most likely I would be leaving the country after that. I promptly received a letter from payroll saying in angry red letters something along the lines of: "IT HAS COME TO OUR ATTENTION THAT YOU OWE THE NHS MONEY. IF YOU DO NOT MAKE ARRANGEMENTS TO PAY WITHIN 14 DAYS PROCEEDINGS WILL BE STARTED AGAINST YOU". So after one year of pestering them to get their act together, they gave me 14 days to arrange payment. Great.

At least this letter meant someone finally opened a formal case, which meant there was now an actual human assigned to the case who I could arrange payment with.

Since the money had temporarily put me at a higher tax bracket, I lost money from tax after repayment. I then spent another 2 years dealing with HMRC Tax Office applying for a refund. I managed to claim some, but not all the extra tax. In the end this whole incompetence parade cost me personally about £1k (not including time and money wasted chasing this up).

Employee accused of skipping work for 15 years

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