Severe brain injury and paralysis temporarily reversed with a sleeping pill

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0010945220303130

by ptbello • 6 years ago

313 179 6 years ago

sciencedirect.com

kneel• 6 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kWKvDj3jD4

pcurve• 6 years ago

Update

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUnBPOO9Qmw

TedDoesntTalk• 6 years ago

What happens when the sleeping pill wears off? Does the patient revert to his previous state until administered another dose, or does a single dose permanently change the patient?

ve55• 6 years ago

It would seem they revert back to their previous state, since it mentions 'temporary'

teej• 6 years ago

They revert when it wears off.

xwdv2• 6 years ago

Essentially they come back to life for a bit and then slither back to their vegetative state.

getlawgdon2• 6 years ago

You could phrase this much more kindly.

mikeyouse• 6 years ago

After consultation with his family, a single dose of zolpidem (10 mg) was administered by the nursing home physician. This dose is frequently used for patients with persistent hyporesponsive disorders (Bomalaski et al., 2017). Within 20 min, the patient started communicating spontaneously, asking the nurse how his wheelchair was to be operated, and requesting fast food. He managed to walk while being supported by the staff and phoned his father, who had not heard his son's voice for years. Despite evident retrograde amnesia, going back three years before the brain injury, and an apparent hearing deficit, he was cheerful, alert, and showing interest in the people and objects surrounding him.
Two hours after zolpidem administration, he gradually fell back into his diminished motivational state.

yellow_lead• 6 years ago

It's great that he's able to "come back" for a little while, but it must be so sad for his loved ones to see him revert to the diminished state.

ComputerGuru• 6 years ago

Zolpidem is famous for this, although it’s raised more questions than answers. This particular phenomenon has been known since the early 2000s; NYT has a good write up about it: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/04/magazine/can-ambien-wake-...

ianai2• 6 years ago

After taking it for sleep, I think it should be researched for way more. It’s clearly rewiring things.

shakezula• 6 years ago

Can you elaborate on your experience with it? I’m super curious about that.

crispyporkbites3• 6 years ago

I should hope not- there are no wires in your brain!

tantalor• 6 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zolpidem#Research

treatment effective in the short term, but only in a small proportion of cases (estimated at around 5%)

feanaro• 6 years ago

Indeed, there was even a Dr House episode featuring it.

sho• 6 years ago

This is way better. I think the "sciencedirect" article is based on this. Re-link? @dang

jessriedel• 6 years ago

Is this a joke? Sciencedirect is a database hosting academic journal articles. This particular article is from the joural Cortex and reports novel research results. It is obviously not based on a NYTimes article! The NYTimes could of course be more accessible or have a broader perspective.

madcow00• 6 years ago

Things like these makes me realize how little we know about the functioning of brain. Manipulating brain digitally would be perhaps one of the biggest technological revolution after industrial revolution.

numpad0• 6 years ago

That’s basically singularity

monkeydreams• 6 years ago

I saw a paper describing a clinical trial of a device which electrically stimulates the median nerve to reduce the severity of tourette's symptoms.

This would be game changing to the Tourette's community. It is so much more than just a speech or tic disorder, and to give the worst affected sufferers their lives back (by reducing the impact of disinhibition, etc) is a fucking miracle.

the_only_law2• 6 years ago

Sometimes I wish I was smart enough to have gotten involved with things like neuroscience. I watched part of a lecture on certain brain functions a good while back, regarding the mechanics of various mental illnesses, and it was incredibly fascinating. Such a powerful organ that we simply can't understand well enough.

crispyporkbites3• 6 years ago

You probably are smart enough. It’s never to late to learn and contribute.

TaupeRanger2• 6 years ago

You are definitely smart enough. The problem is that most neuroscience is extremely incremental and often boring/useless. People like the idea of "working with the brain", but since we have no idea what we're doing, they just end up doing the 237th paper on the regions whose activity is "modulated" by the hippocampus, etc., etc.

tbugrara• 6 years ago

Do you happen to have a link to that video? Sounds really interesting.

doitLP• 6 years ago

We know very little about how the body as a whole functions, especially from a systems perspective. Sure doctors can set bones and give you drugs that are in many cases the physiological equivalent of a sledgehammer, but try asking them what the mechanism of action is of those drugs, or you have Crohn’s or rheumatoid arthritis or insomnia or pinched nerve pain in your back. They have no effing idea.

crispyporkbites3• 6 years ago

You’re talking to a general practitioner in that case, they won’t know the specific details, just in general. If you speak to researchers or specialists they do have a clue. But we still have a long long way to go

neuronic3• 6 years ago

Confirmed. I worked in immunology and people were attempting to model gene expressions and how genes influence each other's expression to finally determine T-cell plasticity.

New cell types or pathways to become cell types are observed more often than you would think and it feels like we are still at the very foundation of understanding <insert field of biology>. It's scary how much we don't know while publically acting as if we figured out 99.98% of biology.

Explaining allergies and their origin is a good example here. It's just people throwing guesses around.

TaupeRanger2• 6 years ago

We know little about many biological processes. The brain/CNS, cancer, and genetic disorders are among the most pressing medically.

Nextgrid3• 6 years ago

Sci-Hub link: https://sci-hub.do/10.1016/j.cortex.2020.08.011

mariopt3• 6 years ago

Zolpidem, I use this pill to sleep and works fantastic for me. My MD told me that regular use could lead to dementia and the risk for addiction is considerable. I've tried antidepressants to sleep but always wake up with a headache, the feeling of it it's not great either. But with this one, never had an issue.

ed25519FUUU• 6 years ago

Dementia as a side effect? Aren’t you scared of that?

leetrout• 6 years ago

Check this out:

Zolpidem may cause serious or possibly life-threatening sleep behaviors. Some people who took zolpidem got out of bed and drove their cars, prepared and ate food, had sex, made phone calls, sleep-walked, or were involved in other activities while not fully awake. After they woke up, these people were unable to remember what they had done. Tell your doctor if you have ever had an unusual sleep behavior while taking zolpidem. Be sure that your family or caregiver are aware that these symptoms are serious and to call your doctor if they occur. Stop taking zolpidem and call your doctor right away if you find out that you have been driving or doing anything else unusual while you were sleeping.

https://medlineplus.gov/druginfo/meds/a693025.html

ianai2• 6 years ago

It’s a crap calculation but dementia years away is better than a life without proper sleep. You might not make it to those dementia years or skip it through some other process-like not triggering it. I’ve accepted similar trade offs with medication for chronic migraine (as in literally every day sometimes multiples per day). Functioning today definitely matters more than decades down the road if that’s what it truly takes.

hellotomyrars• 6 years ago

I take medication that results in Parkinsonism Syndrome to some extent. It sucks, and it's very frustrating when it manifests.

That said, without the medication I'd be miserable and might not even be alive.

One of these is better than the other, so it's the choice I make.

DoreenMichele2• 6 years ago

People making choices of that sort are almost always much more afraid of something else, that "something else" being what happens if they don't treat for X. If they had better options, they would be all over them.

mariopt3• 6 years ago

Of course, that is why I only take it strictly when I need it.

uberduper• 6 years ago

Ever tried Hydroxyzine for sleep? It's an anti-anxiety med that was prescribed to me for insomnia after zolpidem and the other popular non-benzo hypnotics had the opposite effects on me.

Hydroxyzine works ok for me. Not great. Flexirol + hydrocodone work fantastic for me, but that's not a viable option.

goldenkey• 6 years ago

Hydroxyzine aka Atarax aka Vistaril is an anti-histamine. Off-label used for other things. Habitual anti-histamine use causes Parkinsons...

mariopt3• 6 years ago

The only one I tried was trazodone, half a pill is enough to induce sleep but falling asleep and waking up doesn't fells nice. 15 minutes after taking the pill I get a sensation that I can only describe as "being poisoned", in the morning I get a long lasting headache for 4+ hours. Antidepressants are prescribed as a "safer" alternative to zolpidem/dangerous medication but there is some controversy in the medical community about it. Some people developed a zolpidem addiction up to the point where they need it or won't sleep at all.

smabie6• 6 years ago

Take seroquel instead. Less risky, at least mentally. Also more powerful and effective.

skissane• 6 years ago

I would be very hesitant about taking antipsychotics (of which Seroquel, quetiapine is one). There is research suggesting they may cause brain atrophy (reduction in brain volumes over time).

Now, if one is dealing with something really serious like psychosis or acute mania, maybe it is a preventing a short-term harm which outweighs the risk of this long-term harm. But if it is just trouble sleeping, considering this risk, I think one should explore other options first.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3476840/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09249...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30191724/

(I used to take Seroquel for insomnia and anxiety myself. I stopped when I discovered this research. It also contributed to our decision to get our son off risperidone.)

jetrink• 6 years ago

Reading the HN title, I was immediately reminded of the Oliver Sacks book Awakenings[1]. He discovered that the drug L-DOPA could temporarily awaken encephalitis patients from a coma-like state. I wonder if the article's title "Awakening after a sleeping pill" is a reference to that book.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awakenings_(book)

mdoms• 6 years ago

There's a House M.D. episode about this. It's one of my favourite episodes, but if you weren't already following the show it wouldn't be the best one to start on, as it involved Wilson doing a lot of analysis on House's way of thinking which you'd lack context on.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_Coma_Guy

b1122• 6 years ago

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099077/

Two incredible actors, and one very touching movie.

DoreenMichele2• 6 years ago

Excerpt:

A man, 29-year old, with a history of alcohol abuse suffered from hypoxic-ischemic brain injury after choking on a piece of meat. After an initial, though slow neurological recovery, spontaneous movement and speech disappeared. The patient developed such a severe impairment of arousal that he required intensive auditory and tactile stimulation to maintain a wakeful state. No structural lesions were found using a computerized tomography (CT) scan to explain this secondary deterioration, and conventional EEG-recordings showed no evidence of epilepsy. After a stay in the ICU and neurology department, the patient was transferred to a nursing home without a formal diagnosis explaining his hyporesponsive state. A structural MRI at follow-up showed signs of diffuse atrophy without hydrocephalus.

Eight years passed without any further improvement and neurological follow-up. Eventually, a new nursing home physician with experience in hyporesponsive disorders took over the patient's treatment and performed a new neurological examination to find directions to improve his care. Upon clinical assessment, the now 37-year old patient seemed awake, but showed a complete lack of voluntary movement (akinesia) and absence of speech (mutism). More specifically, the patient showed no affective reactions, initiation of eating or drinking, and remained incontinent. Although the patient showed no signs of spontaneous speech or vocalization on request, he was able to respond to questions or commands with movements with a significant delay (usually a couple of seconds) and with evident ataxia and muscle rigidity. Despite his intact awareness, the patient's initiative was so severely impaired that he remained wheelchair-bound and entirely dependent on nursing care for all daily activities, including the need for enteral tube feeding.

It's incredible how little we still know about some things. They couldn't pin down a cause and this is apparently a significant detail as to why this patient was basically warehoused in a nursing home with no real treatment for literally years until they tried this new thing, which had some short-lived effects.

centimeter3• 6 years ago

Several years ago I experienced a (thankfully temporary) severe reduction in brain function, for several weeks. I was shocked by the truly abysmal diagnostic capability of modern neuromedicine for anything less than large-scale physical trauma. In my case, they couldn't pin down a cause at all, except to say that the symptoms were consistent with a viral infection of the CNS. What virus? Who knows, we can only test for a handful of them.

raincom• 6 years ago

When neurologists just postulate virus to explain the problems like you had, they are just BSing. Oliver Sacks described many cases of neurosyphilis in his books. These doctors are just extrapolating based on that.

tomcam2• 6 years ago

Man, I would like to hear any details on the situation at all that you are willing to provide. When it happened, what you felt like during the experience, what happened upon recovery… The whole thing.

neuronic3• 6 years ago

Despite the overly inflated ego of many neurosurgeons, neurologists and neuroscientists we have no conclusive picture about the brain as a working system.

We just have a few pieces of a puzzle and no idea what the overall image actually is. Neuroplasticity and adaptivity make this even harder because often you can't just take a part away like in a car and pinpoint issues due to the absence or disturbance of these parts.

If you knockout an area and a patient loses smell, will you say that you found the "center" of smell? We are still poking at the brain and figuring out its responses.

kgc• 6 years ago

What were the symptoms?

nucleardog• 6 years ago

We have the technology, it's just... not widely available yet.

There's a lab at UCSF[1] that actually specializes in doing genome sequencing of cerebrospinal fluid specifically for cases like this. They're talked about pretty extensively in Adam Savage's "Still Untitled" podcast[2] and all the crazy weird things they managed to diagnose this way.

We all have the impression that medicine is a solved problem, but we've still got a way to go. We're still making progress though.

[1] https://nextgendiagnostics.ucsf.edu/

[2] https://www.tested.com/podcasts/adam-savage-project/854328-s...

jitendrac• 6 years ago

I had similar experience but it was for sudden-sensorineural hearing loss(high frequency) and tinnitus, I consulted a doctor with in 2 days of first signs and he was unable to point me to urgent treatments like steroid or hbot. in next week I consulted well known highly experienced(one 25+years other 30+years) doctors,none tried it. I found about possible options from another doctor after 6 months and it was too late.

andrewem• 6 years ago

Thanks for that excerpt. The part I found most terrifying is that not only was the patient given no real treatment, but "Eight years passed without...neurological follow-up", meaning even an examination to see what his status was.

canada_dry• 6 years ago

This reminded me of the treatment of Encephalitis lethargica [i] and the temporary effect of L-dopa (as made famous in the movie Awakenings).

[i] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encephalitis_lethargica

tedd4u• 6 years ago

Ah, the video at the bottom of the paper is really emotional! I hope they can figure out how to prolong the effects. Still, an hour of lucidity and verbal communication and a stroll every few weeks and a visit with the family is infinitely better than nothing at all.

casefields2• 6 years ago

I'm glad you pointed that out. It was great to see video of him.

Nextgrid3• 6 years ago

I wonder how does he feel when he's not under zolpidem. We can clearly see him being slow and mostly non-responsive, but I wonder what the experience for him is like - is it like sleep where he doesn't feel/remember anything about it (notice how once under zolpidem he does not think he has health problems), does he feel normal, and if so what is he thinking about, etc?

GordonS2• 6 years ago

Same here, I don't expect to find videos attached to papers, so would never think to look.

It's absolutely incredible! You can read as much in the paper of course, but seeing it with your own eyes is somehow very different.

muzika• 6 years ago

Thank you

madarco• 6 years ago

thank you

bxtt2• 6 years ago

I’ve been taking Zolpidem for about 13 years now and suffer from addiction. I’ve sought treatment for this but it doesn’t work as now I cannot sleep without taking something. If you haven’t taken Z-type sleeping aids, I would definitely suggest not to start, as from experience the consequences outweigh the benefits. I’ve lost a considerable amount of friends/reputation/etc. from the abuse. Every experience that you hear about from sleeping aids, I’ve been through it (from the loopy fun to binge eating to weird sex to psychosis to crashing my car)

grecy• 6 years ago

(Genuinely curious and not trying to downplay the seriousness at all)

What would happen if you took a month off work and all your obligations and stayed home and didn't take anything for a whole month? My understanding is the human body can't go more than about 10 days without sleep [1].

So I assume at that point you would fall asleep, and then over the coming ~20 days hopefully you could normalize it and get back to some kind of unassisted "regular" sleeping.... ?

[1] https://www.healthline.com/health/healthy-sleep/how-long-can...

Pfhreak• 6 years ago

According to Wikipedia, withdrawal symptoms can be severe including seizures, vomiting, etc. To do nothing of the discomfort from a lack of sleep. It would take incredible will power to overcome something like that.

It also sounds like there are some treatments that can help fight an auction, including other medications that bind to some of the same receptors. Or very slowly weaning someone off (but then you have to figure out something else for the insomnia.)

bxtt2• 6 years ago

I've actually decided to take some time off work because of my addiction issues. It's more so the cycle. I'll stop taking Zolpidem/Zopiclone for several weeks/month (the first several days -- terrible shakes, chills, nightmares, several days without sleeping etc. Zopiclone/Benzo withdrawal is far worse) After a while, I'll eventually adjust but I have insomnia/poor sleep so I'll eventually cave in due to sleep deprivation then I'll pick back up.

For the past year, I would roughly take 90mg of either Zolpidem/Zopiclone in a single night. On average, I roughly go through 100 pills a week (I have pharmacies that sell to me...I know sketch).

It wasn't always like this, when I first started taking medication after going to Stanford Sleep Clinic, I would just take a pill or two a night and have fantastic sleep. It was like this for several years but eventually my tolerance increased and my work stress/insomnia got worse with age.

I want to reiterate that I've destroyed/damaged every meaningful relationship in my life. I state this all out because I've realized that people have a strange fascination with Ambien.

Griffinsauce• 6 years ago

10 days without sleep is a great recipe for an epileptic seizure. Don't experiment with this kind of stuff without consulting a neurologist / sleep expert.

InfiniteRand• 6 years ago

I periodically used to periodically take a day off work and sleep pretty much the entire day to refresh myself during periods when I was having trouble sleeping at night. I found getting yourself back to sleep when you never get to 100% awake is a lot easier than getting to your initial sleep, of course this was with rather mild sleep issues related to stress and anxiety.

This isn’t really an option anymore as a father of young kids

jeron• 6 years ago

that's horrifying, so sorry for the situation you're in right now.

smabie6• 6 years ago

Try getting prescribed seroquel instead. A lot more powerful, and will help you sleep. Less (known?) downsides as well. I guarantee you that you will be able to sleep with it.

7839284023• 6 years ago

I am happy that this works for you, but you can't really compare a Z-Drug with an atypical antipsychotic. That's some dangerous medical advice.

Also (from wikipedia) on Seroquel / Quetiapine: "Despite being widely used as a sleep aid due its sedating effect, the benefits of such use do not appear to generally outweigh the side effects."

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/8812/afd4bc713c03435b68f2bb...

Personally I would only take antipsychotics when absolutley necessary. Nasty stuff.

jokowueu• 6 years ago

Non z drugs that make u sleep exist too such as the new OX Based sleep meds such as Lemborexant

apache99• 6 years ago

Seroquel makes you wake up. at night and wanna eat chocolate. Too much of it makes you feel like a zombie the next day. SCAREQUEL should be the name. Ive sleep walked on that stuff

mickelsen2• 6 years ago

I've been here too! Took zopiclone for a bout of insomnia but after two weeks I was dependent, either I wasn't sleeping without it or the quality of sleep was terrible if I tried going natural. Got prescribed Quetiapine at 25mg, which at that dose is not for psychosis but sleep (or an adjunct for people with bipolar, which is not my case either) Only needed 3-4 days of it and I could reset myself, back to normal sleep. Was already scared that I'd become dependent on this, but atypical neuroleptics in low doses are less associated with tardive dyskinesia. Do seriously consider it. Otherwise you could try an antidepressant with sedative qualities, like trazodone or mirtazapine, both very effective too. Best of luck to all, insomnia sucks.

BuzzwordBingo2• 6 years ago

Use for sleep is off label but some psychiatrists still do it. Don’t expect anyone to offer it as a replacement without a very good reason.

domano• 6 years ago

I got a subscription for 1 package when I had major sleep issues as a young adult and i immediately wanted more. Best 2 weeks of sleep i ever had. Luckily the doctor did not allow another subscription

odiroot• 6 years ago

Same here. Got like 2 weeks' worth once, a few years ago. Never had a better sleep than on the Z-s.

raducu• 6 years ago

I really like zolpidem and other substances. I almost never took them for more than 3 consecutive days. I still have a lot of zolpidem laying around and don't take it, because I know the brain gets uses to them and the magic is gone. Amazing how people react differently to addicting substances.

Back when I used zolpidem, I found that it is best to use it as a reset button, not as a daily crutch.

I do take 300mcg melatonin but I found it has no diminishing returns and in fact it has a negative feedback -- after 3 days of melatonin, I don't need it for at least another week. I keep the zolpidem for "recreational" usage, but I don't want to use it with my wife and daughter in the house in the remote possibility I get sleepwalking(never actually happened, I just get amazing auditory hallucinations before I fall asleep).

downrightmike• 6 years ago

When you immediately want more of something is a REALLY good sign to walk away.

AuryGlenz• 6 years ago

That bums me out. I’ve tried two different z-types for very occasional days where I need to get up early - maybe 4 days a year. Anyways, I feel like I’ve had 2 hours of sleep on them even when I get a full 8 or 9 hours. They must really disrupt my sleep patterns.

peteretep• 6 years ago

Ah geez dude, I’m sorry to hear this. Getting over benzos was a huge, year-long drag. But you’re going to need to do that at some point...

in3d• 6 years ago

Take this with all the weight a message board advice from a non-doctor is worth but have you tried Trazodone instead? It’s used widely for sleep issues and it’s effective for many. And have you looked at something like Ketamine for a possible long-lasting solution?

Perceval• 6 years ago

I had a good experience with Trazadone. Very easy to get to sleep, eliminated anxiety about going to sleep, and got restful sleep, with only a little grogginess in the morning. No withdrawal when I stopped cold turkey after 2 years. Nowadays I just have valerian tea or magnesium before bed.

jdkee• 6 years ago

Seconding Trazodone. It is not addictive but does have a rebound effect if you discontinue it without weaning yourself down.

stordoff• 6 years ago

I've had some weird side effects from Zopiclone. They're effective, even when benzodiazepines haven't been, but the side-effects are concerning. On multiple occasions, I've woken up and the room appears to bathed in a yellow light (even though no lights were on and it was still dark outside), and on a few occasions I've been looking at the time on my phone, blinked, and it's suddenly four hours later. I've no idea whether I just fell back asleep and checked the time again, four hours passed and I did _something_, or it just made me misremember the first time. They're not drugs I would use lightly.

Benzodiazepines on the other hand I've had no issues with (no desire/need to increase the dose, no withdrawal even when I've been taking them for prolonged periods, no side effects), but I don't find them as effective. I have seen the destructive effects they can have though - a family member had to taper off them over six months, and at the end she was cutting the smallest dose tablets into quarters as she still couldn't quite get off them.

intricatedetail3• 6 years ago

I had a week course of Zolpidem and it only worked first two nights. The rest was what some describe as the visit of a walrus. I thought I was sleeping but I was doing things.

mancerayder• 6 years ago

Is it possible to very very slowly taper over a long period of time? Like take a 5 pct lower dose every week by scraping off some and using a scale?

BuzzwordBingo2• 6 years ago

Seriously, tell your doctor. They will stop prescribing these and help you find an alternative that works and has less potential for misuse.

therealx5• 6 years ago

Op should work with their doctor to taper off.

PIKAL• 6 years ago

Mainstream medical doctors have been ignoring this for more than a decade. It’s absolutely shameful.

jb7752• 6 years ago

My sister suffered severe TBI from a car accident for 15 years before she eventually passed last year. It was pretty shocking to witness the lack of knowledge in regards to how the human brain works, and more specifically lacking in how to heal/treat an injured brain.

Immediately following the accident, we saw other patients in the same condition as her and tracked their progress for comparison sake. The common theme was that patients either made significant progress (with motor skills, talking, etc) within the first 0-3 weeks, or not really at all. It seemed like once scar-tissue started forming in the brain, critical brain connectivity began to get blocked (not necessarily broken). If we can better understand the underlying mechanism behind the "signal blocking" vs "signal un-blocking" aspect seen using this drug in TBI patients, it would be a huge win for all brain related conditions.

cblconfederate• 6 years ago

The underlying mechanism is well known: it activates GABA (inhibitory) receptors causing cells to hyperpolarize. We have all kinds of receptor activators/deactivator drugs, the problem is the brain is complex and we don't know where/when/how to use them to achieve desired effects.

AllegedAlec• 6 years ago

Trapped inside this Octavarium...

apatheticonion• 6 years ago

Found out promethazine (over the counter antihistamine) can make me sleepy after trying to use it to help with virtual reality sickness.

I've recently started taking it a few times a month to help out when I am having poor sleep, in an attempt to kick me back into a decent rhythm.

Reading the experiences in this thread of people using Seroquel or Zolpidem and their negative reactions - I am feeling a little sketchy about my crutch.

opiate_addict• 6 years ago

Careful with antihistamines. I've abused diphenhydramine in the past. Like crazy amounts each night. And I know at least 2 other addicts who have as well - one even claimed they shot it lol... so it can be addictive (and slightly physically addictive hard to get sleep until after 'withdrawals' end).

it helps 'slow down my thinking' and just kind of nod out to nothingness when taken alone. and combining with other drugs/alcohol amplifies

I feel like it has permanently worsened my memory. For sure brain fog is definitely noticeable for weeks after stopping.

There are also a few scary articles I've read linking to alzheimer's/dementia. It kind of makes sense from my limited wikipedia understanding of brain chemistry that blocking Acetylcholine would have long term effects. amped up version of this action is used to kill people vx seren etc

im sober from everything now. but every once and a blue moon i'll take diphenhydramine if i'm having serious insomnia.

one night feels restful. after that it just exasperates & continues the cycle. It also is hard to take just one, I literally have to buy a travel pack, take one, throw the rest away or i will keep taking them until they are gone. annnnd now i want one to zone out. don't abuse drugs kids!

tyingq• 6 years ago

Different drug and underlying affliction, but the film "Awakenings" is worth watching if this story piques your interest. It's a true (though highly dramatized) story. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099077/

copperx3• 6 years ago

The book (Awakenings by Oliver Sacks) might be a better resource if you're interested in specifics and don't care for dramatization.

layoutIfNeeded• 6 years ago

So at least some people who have been declared “brain-dead” and had their organs harvested could have been brought back (albeit temporarily) with a shot of Ambien? That’s... disturbing.

neuronic3• 6 years ago

Out of curiosity, I brought this up to a professor in 2009. Examples were circulating online back then regarding Ambien and lock-in syndrome with similar temporary reversal effect.

Got basically told off with denial and laughs.

Experts often get stuck on this point where their ego supercedes any notion of new science, exploration and potentially disruptive information.

artur_makly• 6 years ago

sleeping pills are going to be our next pandemic. these drugs need to be reclassified as “fucking dangerous”

here is just a list of shit to be prepared for when you take them for more than a few short weeks:

https://youtu.be/IKNzL-eU650

please be VERY careful. ive been on then for years and it is a nasty and very long detox process.

copperx3• 6 years ago

They can be a lifesaver for an informed patient, though. I suffer from occasional insomnia (about once a month -- if working too late, got too emotionally invested in something, or if accidentally drank too much coffee), and Ambien has been incredibly helpful. I wouldn't dare take it on even a weekly basis, though.

Even though I haven't had any side effects, I still hide my car keys before taking it after having read stories of people driving while asleep on Ambien.

loceng• 6 years ago

A really fascinating book is just waiting to be written taking into account the brain wave pattern understanding from research that's occurred over the last few years.

cobolcowboy2• 6 years ago

To the people in this thread advocating antipsychotic medication for anything other than treating psychosis and as an adjunct for severe depression, don't. These medications are serious things for serious situations and can have unexpected effects on you mentally.

I went on them in my early twenties due to a nervous breakdown, and while they stopped the endless loops of thought and insomnia (I ended up sleeping ten hours a night without breaking a sweat), they reduced my libido, made me gain weight, and worst of all, robbed me of my natural sharpness and creativity. It was as if my brain had been wrapped in a layer of bubble wrap, and my ability to come up with those sparks of inspiration that you need to do intellectual work was almost extinguished. I'm 100% now, fully recovered, but it took me about 3-4 years to get back where I was before it all happened. If your doctor thinks you're right for them, go for it, but only as a last resort.

They do work, but they're the last tool in the box that you only want to use when everything else has failed.

costcopizza• 6 years ago

What helped you in your 3-4 year recovery?

cobolcowboy2• 6 years ago

Honestly, learning to program. I was listless when I got into university, and couldn't cope with the fact I wasn't the smartest person I knew anymore. That hit me a lot harder than I expected, and cascaded into a complete loss of confidence.

Learning a skill from the ground up I couldn't bullshit from random esoterica I'd picked up from high school forced me to confront my lifelong hubris and put aside my ego. Eventually I got decent enough at it that it became my career. It was a slow, grinding, painful process, but it taught me a lot about humility and the value of incremental progress.

kayodelycaon• 6 years ago

Agree with this. I’m on antipsychotic medication due to psychosis and insomnia. Works great but there are a lot of side effects, which I take additional medication to correct.

argella• 6 years ago

Fear of losing natural sharpness has had me avoiding antidepressants, which I should probably be on. Just too much fear about losing edge for math/programming.

intricatedetail3• 6 years ago

Have you tried CBT therapy or other talking therapies? This helped me more than any anti depressants.

mickelsen2• 6 years ago

Wellbutrin could fit here, it's energizing and doesn't make your feelings 'flat' but careful with the insomnia. I had to stop it because of that, and after a week or so of stopping it I started having tinnitus (the morning it started I woke up from a dream similar to EHS - exploding head syndrome) Could be related/unrelated, who knows.

jaijaihanuman2• 6 years ago

As said elsewhere in the thread, there are nuances even in pharmacology. Your situation sounds terrible, and I am very sorry you had to live through that. However, some anti-psychotics lack anti-psychotic properties in very low doses and are safe. But yes, as a general rule neither anti-psychotics nor z-drugs/bzo-drugs should be used for long-lasting sleep disorders.

milankragujevic• 6 years ago

Sadly, in a lot of places, antipsychotics from the 50s (i.e. Chlorpromazine) are the FIRST kind of therapy given, even to adolescent patients with "generic" depression, alongside SSRIs.

No consent given or asked for, let alone informed consent. You are told "take this".

This is not in circumstances of hospitalization, let alone involuntary hospitalization, but regular outpatient treatment.

People who are in a bad place generally don't research meds, and if they are not extremely uncooperative, or paranoid, will take them and the doctors' words at face value.

Consequences are severe and long-lasting.

Absolutely shameful and despicable. These doctors should be shamed by the scientific community for [almost] using prehistoric notions of "hysteria" to mistreat ilness by basically showing "see, he's not crying anymore! PROGRESS!" while pointing to a barely awake, sedated patient.

Any and all progress is usually SSRIs and psychotherapy, if available. Why do they give these antiquated meds that are not appropriate for the situation (i.e. CPZ) is beyond me. These are not psychoses, this is Episodium depressivum, gradus moderati .

Sorry, had to get that out. This is from personal experience.

intricatedetail3• 6 years ago

Here where I live doctors prescribe anti-depressants like candies. They robbed me of two years of my life. The worst for me was derealisation and strong hallucinations. I started strongly believing that life isn't real, that what I am seeing is just a dream or that other humans are just objects that happen to move and speak. Hallucinations were crazy scary, like I saw things as if atoms of objects got magnified hundreds of times or everything was constructed of polygons (like you would switch wire frame rendering). Absolutely crazy thoughts like I was convinced that if I cut myself with a knife it will give me pleasure like scratching an itch. I had a couple of suicidal episodes and ended up in hospital. Somehow nobody connected that this could be anti depressants. I then stopped them on my own and few weeks later started CBT therapy. That fortunately was the most I needed to "repair" my thought processes. I am okay, but I sometimes have the flashbacks of what happened. It's just a reminder to stay away from these things. I understand this may help other people but it didn't help me. When I talked about hallucinations with the doctor he just prescribed a different one. Every 4-6 months I had a different one.

elevenoh• 6 years ago

To the people in this thread advocating antipsychotic medication for anything other than treating psychosis and as an adjunct for severe depression, don't. These medications are serious things for serious situations and can have unexpected effects on you mentally.

The dose makes the poison. A small dose e.g. of seroquel, for a few days, has a great risk:reward profile for panic disorder

someperson• 6 years ago

Here's a human-interest story on this same medication: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9XeeVSRlYs

foxhop2• 6 years ago

My guess is the damage was primarily on the conscious parts of the head, my guess is the sleeping pill (I'd wager canibus may also work) allows the more unconscious "dream-like" side of the brian to temporarily fill-in on executive functions.

therealbilly• 6 years ago

So sad knowing the patient will always revert back to his original state.

Severe brain injury and paralysis temporarily reversed with a sleeping pill

Related Stories