Is This the End of the Repairable iPhone?

https://www.ifixit.com/News/45921/is-this-the-end-of-the-repairable-iphone

by pabs3 • 6 years ago

170 135 6 years ago

But the main camera module is not a security component.

I wonder if this is related to the fact that iOS now shows an indicator light when the camera is active? If your phone ended up with a modified camera, perhaps it could spy on you without you knowing.

fouc2• 6 years ago

The article is arguing that it shouldn't be treated like a security component, but I'd probably disagree with that.

manmal• 6 years ago

The indicator is purely software driven though. But, I could imagine that a complete spying device could be inserted instead of the camera module.

speedgoose• 6 years ago

The light is not very useful anyway.

Source: http://xlab.berkeley.edu/connect/Portnoff%20-%20WebcamPaper....

supernova87a5• 6 years ago

I think the story isn't the end of the repairable iPhone. It's about the end of the consumer (or consumer segment) who cares enough to vote with their dollars for repairability more than new functionality and price.

We are all free to vote with our money what we want. We collectively choose not to, on average.

simongr3dal• 6 years ago

How would the consumer ever get to "vote" tho?

There never was a year where Apple released a mediocre repairable phone and a slicker unrepairable phone, so the vote has never happened.

gear54rus2• 6 years ago

The first step of the process is to not buy anything apple recognizing there hardly ever was a company more hostile to user freedom both on software and hardware side.

blihp• 6 years ago

You vote every time you choose to buy a product from company X or one of their competitors instead.

Remember back when Apple made phones with smaller screens? They took notice when millions of consumers were buying Samsung/whatever devices instead with a key reason given being 'bigger screen'. Apple then started producing devices with bigger screens.

everly• 6 years ago

I realize we're talking about voting with dollars here but it's also possible that consumers could literally vote on (or push their representative to draft) legislation to address the issue. I'm not up-to-date on the John Deere right-to-repair litigation but seems like the concept is the same.

OrwellianChild3• 6 years ago

I think this assumes a level of savvy in the average smartphone customer (aka the entire world)... Most people don't understand "repairability" in the context of less complicated systems (their cars, refrigerators, etc.). They can't vote for what they don't understand.

This can be seen in product faults that remain fixed for many years in other consumer products. (see Samsung washing machines, GM ignition systems, etc.) Folks don't know how to evaluate design considerations at this level, I think this supports robust right-to-repair regulation as a counter-veiling force.

jhanschoo• 6 years ago

It's about the end of the consumer (or consumer segment) who cares enough to vote with their dollars

Is it though? Many competitor smartphones are still repairable, and they still control a good share of the market.

tonyedgecombe2• 6 years ago

Actually I think most users would vote for a more reliable device over a repairable one. If using more glue means getting the phone wet is less likely to damage it or stops it breaking when dropped then that's a good tradoff. The fact my aging phone is still getting updates is more important than being able to replace the camera.

I tend to buy my devices second hand so knowing it's difficult for a repairer to use sub standard parts is also good.

nerbert• 6 years ago

Wait until the EU commission hears about it. I have a feeling that they’re not going to let this fly.

pedro2• 6 years ago

I hope so. But we have to be vigilant: “Big Tech's aggressive EU lobby caused a shift in power” [1]

[1] https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/News/Data-news/Big-Tec...

supernova87a5• 6 years ago

I am actually a little puzzled by this, and maybe you can explain the position.

Suppose that there is a consumer market for something, and people have shown their preferences, and are actually demonstrating that they actually don't want something (issue, feature, functionality).

Are you saying that regulators should come in and force rules that satisfy the desires of say, 5% of users (if even that), to the detriment of the rest?

Who are they to contradict the choices of the rest of the people? I mean, this is not like carbon regulation or pollution where someone's individual action has a negative shared cost on everyone else. What principle are we to apply then? There are tons of other 5% issues too -- which ones will be put into regulation?

I think it's important to differentiate when your desire for something is personal and you want a company to do something despite others not caring about it, versus when there is actually harm being done and needs to be regulated.

vladvasiliu• 6 years ago

We are all free to vote with our money what we want. We collectively choose not to, on average.

While I agree with this on principle, to me it looks like it gives the collective us an agency which I would argue isn't really there in that not enough people consider it as a factor.

I think that many people don't really care. As another commenter said, people seem to care more about "specs" (like in the commenter's example with people preferring Samsung phones because of the bigger screens) and about having the latest phone.

This makes me wonder what percentage of people actually have to repair their phones, and of those, how many would have opted to do it themselves with off-brand components.

While I understand the philosophical concerns around repairability and mostly like my laptops to be repairable, I also get the feeling that for phones it only now may become important, if at all, because of their usable life.

My previous phone was a Galaxy S5, with a user replaceable battery. A new Samsung battery from a reputable store (not Amazon) costed 50-60 €. A battery replacement for the iphone costs 70 € at an authorised shop (I'm in Paris, France). I know I could have used an "alternative brand" battery in the GS5, but after a terrible experience with such a battery for a camera, I wouldn't go through that again.

Now I understand that this or that model may have design issues which would have random components fail prematurely. But I doubt that replacing the component with an off-brand one would be that great. I'd consider that model a lemon and avoid it. Even if it would be simple, I'd hate to have to replace my phone's [x] every two weeks.

supernova87a5• 6 years ago

We live within many systems where what the majority wants determines what we get. Some things, if you can't build up enough support, you either live with or create your own environment where it is possible.

If I live in a neighborhood where it takes 7/10 households to vote to improve the paved road, or install fiber internet, if only 3 of them want it, we're not getting any of those things. I can move to a different neighborhood, or pay for my own solution.

This is life.

emsy• 6 years ago

Voting with money doesn’t work, regulations do.

threatofrain2• 6 years ago

IMO it’s more direct to ask companies to be responsible for their externalities than it is to ask for repairability.

adrianN2• 6 years ago

It's infinitely harder to accurately put a dollar cost on externalities than to check whether a piece of hardware can be repaired.

ashtonkem• 6 years ago

It’s tricky in some cases, but consumer electronics are actually pretty easy because most of the harm done is during manufacture (Apple estimates that more than 75% of an iPhone’s emissions come from manufacture). You could either expect Apple to pay for the externalities at production, or mandate that they’re required to accept back all dead Apple electronics and recycle them at a specific standard.

fouc2• 6 years ago

I have mixed feelings about this. I can see the need for security but at same time I can see why the big companies love to pursue "security", it gives them an incredible opportunity to exert even more control.

tonyedgecombe2• 6 years ago

I'm going to guess that spare parts and repairs are a net loss for Apple. It's a cost of doing business.

What they don't want is shody spares and repairs sullying their image.

jmnicolas• 6 years ago

And it can avoid bad actors replacing parts in your phone to spy on you but I don't think it's Apple's main motivation.

yoz-y• 6 years ago

I think image is the important thing. The one time I bought a used iPhone from a shop (reputable one), I received a device sold as "refurbished as new" with a clearly subpar third party display (protruding, wrong colors). Had I not known how the phone is supposed to look like I wouldn't have a great opinion of Apple's build quality.

Now, Apple does have authorized and official repair shops. Clearly they don't have enough of them and they treat them quite poorly too. When I called one that I needed replacement AirPods Pro (already with a ticket from apple), they told me the wait time is 3 weeks because they can only source 1 part per week (and the two earpieces and the box are counted separately).

Apple is fine if you live in a country with Apple stores, but outside of that it's a big risk.

OrwellianChild3• 6 years ago

Apple's choice of "buggy behavior without notification" over interoperability of parts with a permanent "non-Apple part" notice is a clear signal of intent. This is not a security issue - this is locking out 3rd party repair in a way that sows doubt in people who attempt these repairs (with "buggy" behavior present after replacement).

buildbot• 6 years ago

I feel like it’s exactly the opposite - buggy behavior is very anti apple, having a phone say “this part is unauthorized” is very clear and tells you that apple is invalidating 3rd party repairs, vs adding something that requires tuning/training via a software tool and fails sorta later. I feel like locking out 3rd party camera repairs via buggy behaviors is very...roundabout.

OrwellianChild3• 6 years ago

I think we agree on the optics. I conclude that this is underhanded on Apple's part.

bitwize• 6 years ago

If you had a pirated copy of Autodesk 3D Studio (before MAX, for DOS), everything would work and appear normal. But eventually, the geometry of your models would become corrupted -- subtly at first, then with continued use each model would become a spiky mess, like a fruit fly with an unfortunate hedgehog gene mutation.

IHVs and ISVs can have subtle ways of punishing you for using their products in a manner not explicitly authorized. If you do not like the terms, do not buy the product.

deadbunny• 6 years ago

How is pirating software and repairing a device you have purchased comparable?

whytaka7• 6 years ago

Not too long ago, I went to the Apple store to get my MacBook Pro looked at for a faulty key and degraded trackpad. As I had a Genius diagnose the issue, the screen brightness of my iPhone 7 had dropped nearly completely.

While it was true that the glass of the screen had cracked due to a fall, the phone had operated just fine for many months since. The Genius told me it was likely a display issue while I told him it's much more likely a software issue. The Genius gave me the unfortunate advice of restarting the phone by holding down the power button and the lower volume button. The phone restarted, with the Apple logo in full brightness but would turn black when it came to logging in. Pity, since my password is too long to type it in without visual aide.

The Genius told me that to repair the display was $200+. I scoffed at the price and told him it's not the display, and it was unacceptable as I planned on buying the iPhone 12 next month. The manager came by and made it clear there's no room to budge on the price. I resigned and left the device with them.

When I was called in to pick up my phone, they told me that replacing the display did not work, so now my option was either to upgrade or to buy another iPhone 7 for $400+. I told them that's unacceptable and that it's clear it's not the hardware. I told them I am immersed in their ecosystem and I would easily spent another $2000 this year and to cut me a break. They told me, take it or leave it.

I took the phone back and started making my way home. Descending into the metro, I walked past an ill-lit part of the platform. I looked at my phone again and realized I could faintly make out the log in screen. I typed in my password, logged in, went to control center and raised the brightness back up. Perfect. Now, even if I lower the brightness to its lowest setting, it works as normal.

Not only is Apple's moves to cut out 3rd party repairs egregious, their own solutions and staff are rife with incompetence and their offer to you once you've immersed yourself into their ecosystem is, "Money now or go away".

I am not buying the iPhone 12 and my next machine will run Linux.

sdfhbdf• 6 years ago

I had the same issue with iPhone 7 this August. I ended up letting the battery deplete leaving it for some time and then recharging it and that helped. I couldnt brighten the screen :( because of the Apple logo being at full Brightness i was also positive its software not hardware

sebmellen• 6 years ago

The iPhone 7 is a mess. I had the same issue with my screen, and now the iPhone's camera has stopped working, only a few months past Apple's warranty (I bought the phone recently). I go in to the "Genius Bar", and they tell me it's a $150 repair. I brought up that the issue had only started 2 months out of warranty and that I could buy a new iPhone 7 on eBay for $200. No budge, they offered me a $100 trade-in value for an iPhone 11.

$100 trade-in value and they want to charge me $150 for repairs??? What?

I am going to iFixIt as the issue seems common, it's just a ribbon that is attached weakly that pops off of the attachment. The camera is still working.

alisonkisk5• 6 years ago

It's a 4 years old phone. A non Apple phone that told doesn't even have a supported OS with security updates.

Mass production is cheaper than custom repair labor. You're spending more than $150 on your own time fix it (which is great, you have that skill).

est31• 6 years ago

I understand and am sympathetic with your experience, but note that Apple targets the part of the market which is affluent and also ready to spend money. That's why they can turn a profit for so few units sold vs the rest of the market which sells phones that have far more "bang for the buck". If you own apple shares in any reasonable quantity, the increases of this year alone should reward you for it 3 times over.

harlanji• 6 years ago

I have gotten pretty comfortable fixing stuff myself. I almost want to stock replacement everything for my ‘16 SE. I don’t break it much, and I’ve got some razor’s edge stories. Super cheap, come with all the tools. Done screen w/ full sensor transfer, battery.

I’m with parent on the price point thing, and no doubt if aftermarket goes away then hackers will too. I keep a separate work phone anyway, employers have never had a problem issuing one if I need to be reachable. iPhone from employer, bunnie or something for me.

qz2• 6 years ago

Honestly the bit that kills me is being thoroughly buggered for cash. And that is being forced down your neck even more regularly these days, particularly on the back of failures.

When it came to upgrade time this year I skipped buying a mid-range iMac, built a hefty Ryzen desktop instead and had enough spare change to buy a Lenovo T495s.

It’s phone upgrade time in January. I don’t know which way to turn yet.

sharken2• 6 years ago

In the same situation here, have an iPhone 11 that is due to be replaced.

The iPhone 12 is lighter but has worse battery life, so that one is out.

The Sony Xperia 5 II is the current favorite as it has very good battery life and no annoying notch.

And the recent Apple vs Epic case is making the switch easier.

shaicoleman• 6 years ago

I got the Xiaomi 9T Pro (variant of the K20 Pro) when it was released, it's one of the very few phones that fulfill my criteria for a phone that would last a long time

  * Repairable (modular design, pull-tabs for battery)
  * Good build quality (JerryRigEverything approved)
  * Rootable
  * Stable software, with long term vendor software updates
  * Active community for ROMs (if the vendor stops supporting the phone)
  * 3.5mm jack (with an excellent DAC)
  * Relatively compact
  * Flat screen, no notch/holepunch. Curved screens are more fragile and are more expensive to replace.
  * Good battery life
  * Spare parts available (e.g. main camera for $15 shipped)
  * Cheap
  * Decent processor, RAM and storage

There are some downsides, so not for everyone:

  * Comes with bloatware, some of it can only be disabled with root
  * Rooting is a pain
  * Spare parts in China, so might take a while to arrive
  * Launcher is not great, but can be easily replaced
  * Camera is not best in class

maccard7• 6 years ago

I moved from apple to android a few years ago, hoping the grass would be greener. I hoped I was leaving behind a locked in ecosystem with hard to repair devices for a more open ecosystem where competition would improve quality.

Android is a fat mess, with flagship phones from premium manufacturers being incompatible with various OS features, and devices from different manufacturers being incompatible in ways that never happened in the iOS ecosystem.

If you want a full blown "Android" experience, you end up buying all google devices, and in my experience google support are as bad if not worse than Apple. I have a pixel 3 phone from Google that is still under manufacturers warranty. The power button seems to have gotten stuck, and maybe once or twice a day it gets stuck in a reboot loop, and in that process the phone gets _hot_ and ends up running the battery to 0. It's happened when I'm driving too.

Google's advice has been a factory reset, or a replacement device for $300. They claim I must have dropped it, or otherwise mistreated it and as far as they're concerned that's that.

So here I am, 2 years later with a $700 android phone, contemplating an iPhone 12 because the situation is no different on the other side...

toper-centage• 6 years ago

I damaged the charging port on my android phone. I paid 20 euros plus shipping for a new bottom module and used the screw driver provided by the manufacturer to open the phone and replace it. If you care about repairable phones... Buy a repairable phone, instead of a "flagship".

yholio• 6 years ago

The Android ecosystem is great for low cost devices. I have a 5 year old Samsung that still serves me great for what I need it: quick web searches, mapping and Waze, communication etc. The screen is cracked in 200 pieces, I literally stepped on it on multiple occasions, the power button has fallen off but I figured I don't really need it anyway except the rare cases where I leave it to discharge completely. Otherwise the phone is still going strong and has acceptable battery life.

Best 150$ I ever spent, I was going to replace it this year for sheer embarrassment of using such a piece of junk, and then the coronavirus happened and I don't need to physically meet any of my tech-judgmental peers.

justinclift2• 6 years ago

The Pinephone seems like it's at a decent point now:

https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/

Lots of OSS (software) developers have been working with it since the earlier development hardware releases, though I've not bought one yet myself.

Probably will in the next few months though. :)

davidy1235• 6 years ago

Not sure what is going on with your power button, but if it's outside warranty repair $300 for a replacement device is pretty good.

On my fifth Android handset, I have really not found the incompatibility you point out to be an issue. Sure, some companies, like Samsung, try to offer some exclusive features. Just avoid them.

I have to use an iPhone for work, there are a lot of critical annoyances, like how poorly cursor selection works, and then some apps don't support the space bar cursor. Everyday things like changing settings are so much nicer in Android.

My 3 year old Pixel 2 has been a fantastic daily handset, absolutely no complaints, before that my Note 2 was also excellent, though I was glad to get away from Samsung's attempts at exclusive features (the Pixel is "pure Android", albeit with some self-contained on-device "AI" features that are actually useful).

Although there are a lot of cheap Android devices to choose from that can drag down the brand reputation, I would really push back against the suggestion Androids are exclusively "cheap" in the pejorative sense. Most are Just Fine at least. Apple is generally much more conservative in rolling out features, and offers less configuration options, so I guess it's a safer choice, but if Apple weren't such a status symbol I think most people would be more than happy with the lower cost (3a, 4a) Pixel line.

groundCode• 6 years ago

The question is, do any of us actually need the flagship devices? The android phones I’ve bought for family members on the budget end of the spectrum seem to last just as long as the flagships and have decent enough feature sets for pretty much everything from what I can see. Granted none of us play a lot of games and we are more of the holiday snaps than artists when it comes to photos.

VBprogrammer• 6 years ago

It's probably faux pas to mention it in the current environment but my Huawei has easily been the best phone I've ever owned, it's nearly 2 years old and as good as the day I bought it.

hesarenu• 6 years ago

What kind of incompatibility? Base Android would be same. Pure Android you don't even require Google, you can buy Android one mobile.

ericpauley• 6 years ago

I also had google refuse to repair a Pixel 3 under warranty, claiming it must be drop damage. I had every pixel before and, while the hardware was full of issues, google was always willing to fix them. It was this instance of them refusing to honor their warranty that finally pushed me from buying any more Pixel phones. While I’ve had no fewer hardware issues on apple devices (my 2017 mbp has had nearly everything but the case replaced for defects), at least apple honored their warranty.

I can’t believe that after 5 google phones/tablets they were willing to lose a customer over a minor hardware problem.

csomar2• 6 years ago

I had the same issue with the Macbook Pro battery. The laptop is just a couple months beyond the 1-year warranty and Apple did not recognize it as their fault.

Needless to say, I'm happy now with Archlinux despite it took a while to set the whole thing up. I don't think I'll be buying any more Apple laptops but for phones, I don't think Android is doing any better.

cmckn• 6 years ago

Not sure when this happened, but many credit cards offer an additional year of warranty protection if you purchase electronics on them. I had a $750 motherboard replacement reimbursed on a MacBook recently when it was 2 months out of warranty. Worth looking into!

albertzeyer• 6 years ago

Interestingly, I had a very similar issue with my Pixel 3 in the past. The display was just black and it did not responded (I thought). Restarting it displayed the Google logo and then went black again. I was outside at the time, on a sunny day. I thought about this possibility of low brightness setting, but it was so dark that I could really not see anything (even when covering it with hands, getting in a dark corner somewhere), so I thought it must be some other problem. Later when I was back home, in a dark room, I noticed that I could barely see it again. Then just setting the display brightness higher again fixed it.

I'm still not sure though if the brightness was just at the minimal level, and that is just too low outside to see anything, or if it was even lower than usual, similarly as you describe.

johnchristopher• 6 years ago

If I understood the story correctly, you are out of 200 bucks because they replaced the screen instead of acknowledging the software glitch ?

whytaka7• 6 years ago

Actually no, they did me the favor of reinstalling my cracked screen before giving it back to me.

thebruce87m2• 6 years ago

Sounds to me like there were two issues:

1) Hardware problem with the light sensor that was fixed when they swapped the display (might be built in and therefore replaced too, or maybe the crack was obscuring it?)

2) After the hardware problem was fixed, they didn’t think to check the brightness, or forgot to do part of the procedure.

My guess is that the boot process ignores the light sensor and just sets full brightness, much like your fans going to full tilt (or at least a safe default) on your PC when you first boot.

Not defending apple here btw - but I don’t think it was purely a software issue at the beginning.

whytaka7• 6 years ago

They had actually reinstalled the cracked screen before giving it back to me.

neya• 6 years ago

Not speaking in support of Apple here, but just like any other manufacturer, their support quality varies with location. I was in Singapore, took my broken screen Macbook Pro for repair and I was quoted something that costed half the price of the machine for the replacement as they mentioned the motherboard also had to be replaced for some reason.

That very month, I had to fly to India for some work and I decided to ask a local authorized Apple service outlet. The guy changed the display for me at no charge. The machine was out of warranty by atleast a year at that point. But still, Apple honored that warranty.

Six months later, I got a blue tint on my display and the guy did another replacement free of cost because the replacement display he gave me was faulty.

I spent $0.

Many Apple service outlets are pretty good, especially in Asia - Singapore has some good outlets too apart from the one I went to, HK, China all have very knowledgeable people running these outlets too.

Here's another one - I currently own a Samsung S10 phone. One of the speakers became bleak and service center A refused to honor the warranty because the phone had "water damage". It is an IP68 water proof rated phone. How the fuck can it have water damage? Especially when the phone is working just fine, except for the top speaker being bleak.

Service center B did the job of speaker replacement in under 2 hours.

This is the reality. My point is, service centers are like any other business, some people are knowledgeable, some people are spiteful, some people are stupid.

So how do you figure out which ones are good and bad? My simple rule of thumb is ask around your extended family, usually they will know someone who they can refer you to. Referral based jobs are the best, since there is an element of personal touch involved. If not, scan for google reviews of the place to find the ratio of positive and negative reviews. Read the negative reviews especially as its a good indicator of the center's competence.

shorts_theory• 6 years ago

I've had a good experience with Apple Singapore (Wheelock Place) as well. I was even able to get a loaner iPhone 6 for a week when I gave my OG SE in for repair due to a display issue causing the screen to slightly pop out of its frame. Quite understandably (but somewhat to my dismay), they wouldn't give me a loaner iPhone 8 instead.

oefrha• 6 years ago

In my experience Apple still has the most haggle-free support experience and offers full replacements often and quite willingly, but whether you land on a no-questions-asked-replacement issue is luck-based.

A few years ago I had an iPhone whose mute switch would flip off on its own after 1.5 years of use. Went to an Apple Store in U.S. Northeast, described the issue in a sentence, handed it over, and five seconds later the bro told me I was getting a full replacement, which was in my hands three minutes later.

Then, in early 2019, my iPad Pro was having this occasional touch-not-registering issue, which to this day I’m not sure if it’s software or hardware. It also had a tiny tiny strip of dead pixels tucked in a corner, which was only noticeable when using a video player. I brought it into the Apple Store, this time somewhere in Asia, mainly for the touch issue, but casually mentioned the dead pixels since I was already there. Ended up getting a full replacement, and the lady told me it was lucky that this minor display issue was present, otherwise it would be hard to fix and basically impossible to get a replacement for that hard to reproduce and hard to diagnose touch issue.

vaccinator2• 6 years ago

Did they still make you pay for the $200 for the screen?

I wish I could get a phone with plain Linux but I don't think that my carrier (Comcast Mobile) supports any of them. I once used an unsupported phone, and the 4G would work for only a few minutes after a reboot (so it probably is an artificial problem).

whytaka7• 6 years ago

In fact, they reinstalled the cracked screen before giving it back to me.

ece• 6 years ago

This seems curious, any unlocked phone regardless of OS should work on any network. Tech support should be able to help you with connection issues, and if not, I would try a different carrier.

avgcodemonkey• 6 years ago

The right speaker on my 2016 MacBook Pro blew out recently, and is the third time a speaker has blown out. Every time a speaker blew out, it was preceded by the exact same sequence of events: I open the lid of the computer, the machine starts making buzzing sounds as a notification sound starts playing, and one of the speakers blows out.

Note that Apple engineered the hardware so that the speakers are glued to the top case, so replacing either speaker entails replacing the whole top case, which includes the left and right speakers, the keyboard, the trackpad and the battery. An out-of-warranty top case replacement for the 2016 MacBook Pro costs $600.

My machine was now out of warranty, but the same exact thing happened just a little over three months prior and Apple did a repair by replacing the top case. I called to see if Apple would be willing to extend the 90-day warranty for repaired parts just a bit.

The call was transferred to a supervisor. The supervisor told me that it was the left speaker that was blown out last time, and it was the right speaker that was blown out this time, so they considered this to be a completely separate incident and there was no 90-day coverage at all for the right speaker to begin with. I would have to spend $600 to get this fixed, and the supervisor would not budge on the price, either.

I am infuriated because even though they replaced the top case, which, to emphasize, includes all of the parts glued to it - the left and right speakers, as well as the keyboard, the trackpad, and the battery, they do not consider the right speaker to be a component in the same part as the left speaker. Even more infuriating is how Apple glues parts to the case so they can charge exorbitant amounts of money for out-of-warranty repairs.

It also allows their staff to suggest braindead quick-fix solutions equivalent to "pay to replace the whole thing or go away," without actually diagnosing the real problem. I say this because the fact that a speaker blowing out was always preceded by the exact same sequence of events suggests to me that something else may be faulty, but the Apple technicians have never bothered to diagnose what the real problem was.

I am also immersed in Apple's ecosystem and I was ready to trade this computer in and buy a new 16-inch MacBook Pro this year once a new one comes out, given the myriads of issues I've had with my machine (it has also needed three display replacements and one keyboard replacement). I was also ready to buy the new iPad Air.

Now I've decided I won't buy the new iPad Air, and my next computer will likely not run macOS.

m463• 6 years ago

I just watched this video

https://youtu.be/EATdYG7h9IQ

starting at ~ 11:35 it shows how a lot of track pad issues are resolved.

allarm• 6 years ago

I repaired 2 of my MacBooks during the last couple of years - one had a butterfly keyboard issue and another had a swallen battery. Both times it took 1-2 days and both times their support was amazing. The best part of it - both times I did not pay a cent for the repairs, it was all known issues. In the swallen battery case they replaced a keyboard and the touchpad module as well, and the laptop was not even under warranty anymore.

I guess my case is a bit different from yours, but I was very satisfied with their technical competence as well. I suppose it depends on the country in the end, in my case it was Singapore.

tinus_hn• 6 years ago

So how does this play out with the recently announced third party repair program?

MikusR• 6 years ago

That program makes the repair shop order each part individually based on serial numbers.

Kwpolska• 6 years ago

If you’ve got 16 minutes, listen to Louis Rossmann describe how much of a joke it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rCUF-V1esM

The short version is that Apple (a) does not let those stores order components in bulk, which means 2+ week turnaround on a repair that an independent store can do in 15 minutes, and (b) limits those stores to screens and batteries for iPhones. You can’t fix iPads, can’t fix Macs, can’t fix anything other than these two components.

tannhaeuser• 6 years ago

Just need to look at display replacement prices, with cracked displays being the most frequent damages (aka Spiderman app). Where these used to be around 60-80 EUR for iPhone 6 (third-party replacement parts), for the X and newer it's basically approaching the price of a new device. Samsung phones, or any other modern Android phone, are just as uneconomically to repair. It seems the only thing to stop the trend for extremely expensive throw-away phones is consumer-/eco-friendly legislation.

bartvk• 6 years ago

There are more options. Sometimes the vendor offers extended warranty, like AppleCare. Also, some creditcards offer additional insurance, up to two years. And finally if you reall want the ultimate in repairability, there are phones like the FairPhone, or the Librem or the PinePhone.

nbzso• 6 years ago

I hate to repeat my self but this articles keep piling up. Vote with your money first, then if you have a way search legislative measures. They will never stop to search a way to profit more. This is just a beginning. Fully closed macs are coming. I don't care anymore for iPhones, my professional problem is with apple desktops and laptops. If we follow Apple logic in near future I will have to Jailbreak my personal computer that costs arm and a leg and cannot do 3rd party repairs on it. I am filling now very good about the decision to invest in multi platform software and avoid mac only apps. On a phone side someone suggested Fairphone (https://www.fairphone.com/en/) as an alternative. I can see a lot a value in this proposition, after rooting and removing Google crap/spyware.

speeder• 6 years ago

I wish Fairphone and their german competitor existed in Brazil.

My last Android phones all of them failed in ways that were obvioous and simple to repair if it weren't for the fact they were glued shut.

e_proxus• 6 years ago

There aren’t many (if any) realistic options. It basically boils down to Apple, Android or some extremely niche third party special phone (Fairphone etc.) which are mostly Android anyway. So either you pay Apple for premium hardware and software quality but loose out on repairability. Or you get Android which is a potential or actual privacy nightmare. Or you get an obscure other phone which is less supported and usually not as good value for money.

The only thing that can really fix these problems is proper regulation. That’s the only language these companies understand.

alisonkisk5• 6 years ago

And how will you feel if after legislation phones cost even more TCO than they do now?

ryukafalz2• 6 years ago

Or you get an obscure other phone which is less supported and usually not as good value for money.

This is self-reinforcing though; non-iOS/Android phones aren’t going to be more widely supported unless people start buying them.

tartoran2• 6 years ago

Have you looked at the Pinephone? It’s not ready for primetime but it appears to become a nice option

meibo• 6 years ago

design choices so that products are easier to repair.

What's more fun to me is that people actually still buy that.

sudhirj• 6 years ago

Since no one else seems to be doing so, I’ll do devil’s advocate: this is a really good idea. The last thing I want with an expensive phone is to give it in for repair and find it’s been stripped for parts and replaced with low quality knockoffs. Apple doing this makes me more confident giving it in for repair, because I know that when I get my phone back all the parts in it are still real.

There are enough horror stories out there of cars and computers having their parts removed or replaced with older / cheaper ones when in the shop - if an article had been posted about this we’d all be asking why Apple didn’t do a crypto verification of all system components on boot.

deniska• 6 years ago

Apple effectively disallowed repair even if a shop uses genuine parts from another identical phone. The only thing you can now be confident in is that nobody will be able to fix your phone.

sschueller• 6 years ago

Stop buying Apple while you still can. It will not be long before you will not be able to install unsigned apps on your arm MacBook. Apple will have complete control of what you can and can not do which in effect gives a government full control of your device. It is extremely dangerous for democracy.

Security is hard but can be achieved to a reasonable degree without a complete lock down.

If Apple starts to loose market share other will stop copying these horrific practices.

rmrfrmrf• 6 years ago

I can't be the only one not shedding a single tear for the five 65-year-old tech retirees who have the time on their hands to perform manual repairs on their consumer devices.

barnacled• 6 years ago

It does somewhat amuse me to see the degree to which people rationalise Apple's ongoing, consistent control freakery with excuses and justifications. Every time a story like this comes up the amount of people defending what they do really shocks me.

I used to work for Imagination Technologies, whose GPU all Apple mobile devices are based upon. I was at the company when Apple announced that they would no longer require IMG and would be using their own entirely independently developed GPU (knocking 75% off the share value of the company and effectively bankrupting them).

Looking from the inside of the story, the degree to which people both here on HN and in the media at large including, amazingly, the BBC, a state-funded UK news organisation took Apple's side of the issue when they were very clearly talking complete nonsense shocked me.

Apple simply relied on the fact that a. they'd poached a ton of top people at IMG b. IMG could not afford to battle the decision in court (an aside - IMG and Apple have quietly signed a deal for IP again recently - hardly suggesting that Apple have gone entirely independent of IMG). We could get into the fact that the 'independent' GPU was bug-for-bug identical to IMG HW, or documentation for it literally referenced PowerVR enums but I don't want to dwell too much on that.

My point is that Apple have for years taken an approach of trying to vertically integrate EVERYTHING and gain independent control of EVERYTHING. Many suppliers went the way of IMG, and this lack of repairability is in my opinion simply the latest episode of Apple not wanting anybody else whatsoever involved in their products.

The trend continues with Apple moving to all-ARM chips (we'll see what happens with ARM IP, nvidia can fight longer in court so perhaps Apple will leave that alone) and will, in my opinion, continue in all areas for all of their products.

Whether you think it's right or wrong it surprises me that people seem to lose sight of or deny this ongoing trend.

tartoran2• 6 years ago

I agree with you but it doesn’t shock me at all, Apple knows very well what kind of users they are targeting and do enough to excite them every year with new toys. For a while they had taken the lead on many fronts but they seem to have lost that advantage due to their prevailing goal that isn’t likely to change anytime soon and for which they are doing better than anyone: money.

I am not enamored with the alternative either and would avoid google’s tentacles even with more vehemence so the only thing i’m hoping for is an opensource phone os that isn’t controlled by any corp. I’m looking at the PinePhone which is very promising for a linux phone but they still need to catch up with the competition. If we all supported these types of initiatives we’d have what we really want even sooner.

Is This the End of the Repairable iPhone?

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