Magic Leap CEO Rony Abovitz Is Out

https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/28/magic-leap-ceo-rony-abovitz-is-out/

107 84 6 years ago

baybal2• 6 years ago

An interesting persona, you can check web archive for articles he deleted from his weblog.

You can only guess why he decided to delete them one decade after he stopped blogging. I believe, he didn't want to be seen as too much "new age hippie" type.

jondubois3• 6 years ago

The tech culture of investing gigantic sums of money in a handful of hyped up projects is sick IMO. Especially when these investors already know perfectly well that only 1 out of 10 startup makes it and that it's almost impossible to predict which ones will succeed. Even Y Combinator, which is top of the top, doesn't have that high success rate in terms of number of companies.

Instead of giving this one company $2.6 billion, the investors could have invested $100k in 26k different startups. They could have literally scrolled through the list of the top 26k open source projects on GitHub and invested 100K in each of their teams to come up with any kind of business related to their expertise.

Their success rate is bound to have been better. This money was just wasted. Investors are just too lazy to interact with so many companies. Too fat and lazy to make an impact.

marcinzm• 6 years ago

There is a non-trivial cost to investing money into a venture. Investing into 26k projects means you're going to lose a large percentage of money in overhead, legal fees, communication, etc. Then there's the continuing overhead of monitoring the investment which will cost even more.

skrebbel• 6 years ago

giving

This is not at all how investing works. It sounds like you're talking about some kind of charity.

sokoloff• 6 years ago

I think that's a pretty uncharitable reading of deep meaning into a single word (that isn't even wrong).

amitutk• 6 years ago

Instead of giving this one company $2.6 billion, the investors could have invested $100k in 26k different startups.

This already happens, its called angel or accelerator funding. YC gives $150K to 200+ company every year. Some of these companies then raise more, then some more.

For founder with successful exits or other outstanding achievement, they can effectively start with series C and raise 50 million as the first round.

Thereafter everyone wants to bet on the winning horse.

jondubois3• 6 years ago

It doesn't happen enough. Nowhere near enough. The number of companies which apply to YC versus the number which are actually accepted is a very bad ratio. YC and all other incubators combined do not represent a free market by any stretch of the imagination. They're picking winners based on some selection criteria which worked at one point in history... This funnel has been so thoroughly gamed and hacked that at this stage, they might as well invest in random companies. Does anyone realize just how hard it is to get even $20k in funding for a hard working honest founder who is not a psychopathic manipulator. IMO, anybody who can't setup a functional profitable business with $20k funding is unfit to run any company. You've got to give a first chance to more people and fewer second, third and fourth chances to charming psychos.

valachio2• 6 years ago

Look up "power law". Peter Thiel talks about this in detail in his book

ArtWomb2• 6 years ago

If the "virtual" space is a zero-sum game, then Oculus is beginning to expand on an already formidable burgeoning empire ;)

The strategic points that have paid off are the laser commitment to consumer electronics and gaming. Ceaseless technical product innovation and release cycles. And the stellar relations with the indie game dev community.

I think looking at something like Echo VR, which is basically the Battle Arena from Ender's Game. I always loved the zero-G levels in Unreal Tournament and Quake Arena. But this an environment where "which way is up" is truly relative. It represents a new "VR-native" style of game play.

kbumsik• 6 years ago

If the "virtual" space is a zero-sum game, then Oculus is beginning to expand on an already formidable burgeoning empire ;)

Is it? I saw that Valve also is getting much attention with Half-Life Alyx and Valve Index.

darkerside• 6 years ago

No technology impactful enough to be worth investing over $100k is operating in a zero sum market

sgift• 6 years ago

Alyx I would agree, but for Index the reaction I usually saw was more of "yeah, okay, nice, but far too expensive. Let's wait a few years for an affordable solution" while Quest is praised all the time.

ArtWomb2• 6 years ago

Alyx is remarkable. You are in the Black Mesa universe. And it's appropriately horrifying.

But in a perverse way, and this is probably a generational thing, I found the original PC-era Half-Life more immersive. Just could not stop playing until I reached the end. And was always rewarded with a narrative that got weirder by degrees. I think it was the novelty of getting stuck and seeking out trustworthy walkthroughs from some anonymous dial-up era phpBB forums ;)

criddell2• 6 years ago

What was ML showing investors and reporters before their first product release? Was it all smoke-and-mirrors, or do they have something interesting that they haven't been able to make into a product?

Do NDAs (like the one Kevin Kelly had to sign) ever expire? I'd love to hear the story one day of what was going on in that company that allowed them to raise so much money.

sbarre• 6 years ago

They have a product, it's out in the market now.

It's just not relevant or interesting to the mass market in the way that Magic Leap was able to lead investors to believe it would be.

I think it might actually be that simple.

Cactus20182• 6 years ago

They have a product, it's out in the market now.

Sure enough! (image link) https://images.ctfassets.net/wzcrdezk3u3k/4BYPBt61B2XnAsY3ys...

https://shop.magicleap.com/#/

> $2,295
> What’s included? Magic Leap 1 (Lightwear, Lightpack and Control), Lightpack Charger, Control Charger, 2 USB-C Cables, ...

torben-friis• 6 years ago

Back when I was working in a small VR company (about 4 years ago?) ML was granted a bajillion of very abstract vr related patents (in the vein of apple's famous "square device with rounded corners" one). I remember one about mapping physical objects to virtual ones in position, with an example of selecting a random object on a table and being able to use it as a mouse, and another about interacting with virtual creatures through AR that was obviously inspired by the (then) popular pokemon go.

Given the suspicious lack of demos except for closed doors events and silly CGI trailers, our guess back then was that the whole thing was somehow going to be a scheme to become some sort of patent troll of the emerging field - which would make giants like google want to be in - coupled with using the hype of getting investment by the big guys to increase it's value.

Nowadays, I still have no idea what happened in there.

nikanj• 6 years ago

Those patents are going to haunt us for the next two decades. They'll be auctioned off after ML goes under, and patent trolls are keen to jump on them.

jimhi• 6 years ago

I was lucky enough to in contact with one of the founders of OpenCV right before Magic Leap publicly announced. Between Rony Abovitz, Adrian Kaehler, and Gary Bradski - the executive team had some of the top vision experts in the world. Each with their own multiple million (and billion for Rony) dollar exits. They likely raised money on this alone.

mnutt• 6 years ago

There's already somewhat of an explanation: https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/26/tragic-leap/

(they had a mind-blowing cart-sized prototype called "The Beast" which is what wowed everyone, which they failed to shrink to wearable form factor)

criddell2• 6 years ago

That's exactly what I was hoping somebody would point me to. Thanks!

It sounds like ML essentially failed to turn their technology into a product. I'd love to see a demo of what the beast could do.

alangibson2• 6 years ago

In my office there are several sets from Oculus, ML, etc. Every time one shows up, it goes like this: everyone stands around and has a go at it, then it is never touched again.

That's basically the state of VR and AR as it exists today.

capableweb• 6 years ago

For some. For others, it bring them lots of joy. I'm a huge flight nerd and VR has made my experience flying simulators waaaay better. Beat Saber also got me to move a lot more, while listening to my favorite music and it's fun.

But in general I think you're right, most VR stuff is gimmicky. But for us niche nerds, it's a cool addition to our stuff.

tosers4• 6 years ago

Beat Saber. That is the VR seller right now.

whatch• 6 years ago

Can confirm. I have fallen in love with VR when I tried this game on my friend's Oculus Quest. Now during lockdown Beat Saber and BoxVR (another great title, with issues though) on my own headset account for, I guess, 90-95% of my physical activity.

tashoecraft• 6 years ago

Because who sits around at work on a vr headset? Vr is inherently anti (local) social. Vr is fantastic for certain things right now, sim racing being the one I’m familiar with, that it completely blows away any alternative.

The big issue I’ve found is the UX and software is atrocious. Things are not intuitive, there’s walled gardens (f you oculus). I’ve had so many moments of knowing what I want to do, but being totally unable to figure out how to do it.

I’ll be excited once Apple enters space to figure out a bunch of this stuff and the rest of the field can just copy them.

asciident• 6 years ago

Isn't Apple just going to do a walled garden as well? I'm skipping this platform as well until there are open standards and we don't have to develop one version of each app for each platform.

sornaensis4• 6 years ago

Comments like these make me feel like VR proponents are just people who don't know TrackIR exists.

I'm not sure VR can really compete with a device that for ~200$ allows you proper view directed freelook in loads of games without having to seal your eyes off under a visor. With a modestly sized panel I didn't notice any less immersion using head tracking versus a (for me, highly annoying) head-encasing visor.

It also leaves room for having sim-appropriate peripherals that you can actually use because they aren't obscured by the screen.

Just my experience having tried both and being a big simulation enthusiast (flight sim, driving, arma milsim, all that stuff).

perseusprime11• 6 years ago

Anti-socials are a big market and that is their target audience.

castlecrasher2• 6 years ago

That's basically the state of VR and AR as it exists today

Eh, that's the state of it at your work. The VR headset I have and others have is a temporary ticket to a visual entertainment experience.

For me, the only experience I found absolutely amazing was Half Life: Alyx, though I'll play Hotdogs, Horseshoes, and Hand grenades a couple hours a week. I would never do it at the office, though.

Jdam• 6 years ago

Reminds me of 3D TV

Lewton• 6 years ago

I organized a vr party recently with my old beat up vive and people played keep talking and nobody explodes for 6 hours in a row

That’s the state of VR today.

Whenever I do VR as a social activity there’s never anyone leaving unsatisfied. And I’ve “sold” plenty of headsets that I hear reports about still getting regular use several years later

And now with oculus quest it’s an even easier sell

Every time there’s any vr related post on HN, the most upvoted comment is about VR being dead tech, all the while oculus and valve have their headsets on constant back-order

Maybe consider that you’re not the target audience

alangibson2• 6 years ago

I organized a vr party

I'll bet people were responding to the party, not the Vive. It's exactly the effect I reported: it's cool once when everyone is doing it.

I hear reports about still getting regular use several years later

Yes, a percentage of the population is no doubt into it. My point is that it's honestly surprising at this point, given how good the tech truly is, how uncompelling the overall experience is. The vast majority of people just don't feel the need to come back.

VR being dead tech

The tech is great and getting better all the time. But that's not enough for it to be transformative the way smartphones were.

And yes, I know, there's no requirement for AR or VR to be the next smartphone. But we do at some point need another paradigm shift in hardware to enable another wave of software innovation. This I think is why there is such animosity between VR proponents and skeptics: one wants to play some sweet games and the other wants a massive world-changing wave to ride.

justin66• 6 years ago

VR as a social activity

How are you sanitizing the equipment these days? Just curious.

nobody explodes for 6 hours in a row

I shudder to think of what happens when the party ends.

luckydata• 6 years ago

I organized a vr party recently with my old beat up vive and people played keep talking and nobody explodes for 6 hours in a row

I've been hanging out in real life with a lot of people and nobody ever exploded. That seems to be par for the course, not something to brag about.

ebg134• 6 years ago

In my office

Two of those words are extremely important to your experience, "my" and "office".

whywhywhywhy2• 6 years ago

In my office they bought a Nintendo Switch. Everyone stood around and has a go at it, then it is never touched again.

That's basically the state of Nintendo as it exists today.

See? Means nothing and it's just as true as your statement, the thing is collecting dust.

rodiger• 6 years ago

I mean that is the state of Nintendo as a productivity tool, which is likely the point OP was trying to convey.

messick• 6 years ago

Wow, your totally true story and real story flies in the face of the fact that Switches are practically completely sold out worldwide.

ChicagoBoy112• 6 years ago

That's really not giving credit at all to the current state of a lot of this tech, but especially VR. VR has absolutely gone mainstream with tons of people producing different headsets and making more and more investment into it. The new Half-Life game is now VR only, and in certain circles, like simulation experiences like racing or flight simulation, VR is constantly growing more and more market share.

mdonahoe• 6 years ago

Reminds me of a joke about AR apps

“Every AR app is used three times:

when you first download it, when you show it to your friend, And when you show it to your other friend. “

keenmaster2• 6 years ago

That is a very misleading impression of VR, especially for developers who are assessing whether or not it's all hype. It's not just hype. VR will explode in popularity in the future as the headsets become lighter, cheaper, and better with high resolution, full peripheral vision FOV, built-in wireless, micro LED, foveated rendering (for better than 2D graphics, ya seriously), innovative tracking technology, and a much bigger developer community.

It's telling that with all the limitations of first gen VR, I still sank tens of hours into Pavlov (a low res VR counterstrike) and had an absolute blast. I was also blown away by Half Life: Alyx. I would have abandoned VR if it weren't for the Vive deluxe audio kit and the wireless conversion kit, which shows that comfort alone can make all the difference.

There is a game variant in Pavlov that would not have worked very well on 2D screens. Basically most people are soldiers/police and a couple people picked at random are traitors. You have to guess who the traitors are. Since everyone has some degree of head and hand tracking, and microphones are on my default, it's a very social experience. You learn to use social cues to identify and kill the terrorists before they kill you. It's a thoroughly immersive social experience, and for a few hours the cartoon world becomes your real world, because you're playing with real people that kind of sort of look like real people. Everything else is literally out of sight and out of mind. VR's ability to teleport you anywhere with anyone will prove to be highly appealing to a great many people in the future. It will not just be a niche.

thefounder• 6 years ago

> VR will explode in popularity in the future as the headsets become lighter, cheaper, and better with high resolution,

Maybe 3d displays(e.g Looking Glass Factory)will explode and kill VR before the devices get slim enough.

ykevinator2• 6 years ago

I left VR in 2009 because of this phenomenon, I spent a decade in the field and it was a dead end

catacombs• 6 years ago

I feel like this has been a long-time coming, as the company continues to be shrouded in secrecy and not release anything of significant value.

ideals• 6 years ago

It sounds like he will still work there, just not as CEO. This article is a bit light on details. There's no reason given for this.

I'm surprised this didn't leak during the last couple rounds of headlines about laying off staff and more recently raising money. Is Magic Leap really good at keeping secrets or was this a last minute change to funding outline?

sebringj• 6 years ago

I would contrast Jerri Ellsworth of Tilt 5 as the exact opposite of Rony Abovitz. She is low-key, tech smart and made a product quickly with a relatively low budget while having that magic feel to it in the AR world although in a limited, clever and practical way for table top gaming.

ngngngng• 6 years ago

I only want one AR app and no ones made it yet as far as I know.

I just want to be able to walk around the Acropolis in Greece (or any site) and see it in AR as it would have been throughout history. Have little digital scenes play out with people from 2000 years ago, show me buildings as they were before they were destroyed.

stevofolife• 6 years ago

Same

r2champloo• 6 years ago

Funnily enough, the Carnegie Natural History Museum funded a project exactly like this at Carnegie Mellon University. An AR tour of their Architecture exhibit that placed exhibit objects back into their full construction. I wonder if that project went anywhere...

dhosek• 6 years ago

Jon Gruber's take is brutal: https://daringfireball.net/2020/05/abovitz_magic_leap_transl...

ebg134• 6 years ago

The bit that really stands out to me is where he says "We even convinced Google to invest. Google! Those guys are smart!"

This flavor of trope really needs to die. Some people at Google may be smart, but it's pretty clear time and again that many at Google are not, and that Google as a whole is not. "Google is smart and I should trust them to make smart choices" is the kind of cancer that gave ML almost 3 billion dollars.

qppo• 6 years ago

I don't want to downvote you because I assume you didn't write that, but this kind of vitriol is childish. We shouldn't point and laugh at people losing their jobs in this environment.

valachio2• 6 years ago

The hate that people have for ambitious people with ambitious projects, is quite sad.

flmlta• 6 years ago

It's really easy to make a comment and have it come off as dismissive or unsympathetic, I recognize that thousands of people put in tons of hard work on a product and tech stack that they believed in.

I keep reading my friends' goodbye messages to ML after being laid off and being amazed at how different they perceive their work than I do as a consumer. It's like the culture is closer to Jonestown than Cupertino.

I say that because I don't know how much koolaid you have to drink before the ML product that was released to consumers becomes impressive. The experiences available on their platform are not compelling. The headset is inferior and expensive.

Much of what I've seen exclaimed by ML employees as examples of their product and company's quality are things that I consider organizational bugs. Their tech stack is as deep as the Marianas Trench and they're too proud of it.

I don't think ML will be in business in 5 years unless they slim down, sell off IP, and relocate. They do have some really impressive tech and smart people, but I don't think the company as it exists today is viable.

psmithsfhn• 6 years ago

I worked at an AR startup that got rid of their very smart and charismatic CEO eventually.

Guess what happened?

ykevinator2• 6 years ago

Am I banned?

Gibbon1• 6 years ago

Not yet I guess.

Magic Leap CEO Rony Abovitz Is Out

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