Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-taiwan-surveillanc-idUSKBN2170SK

by imartin2k • 6 years ago

221 171 6 years ago

Good thing phones are embedded into us and can't simply be left at home.

Joking aside, and I suppose privacy concerns aside, this measure is better than nothing and is also less draconian than the physical enforcement by police that was seen in mainland China.

lanewinfield• 6 years ago

Fifth paragraph: "Officials also call twice a day to ensure people don’t avoid tracking by leaving their phones at home."

jiveturkey2• 6 years ago

good thing phone forwarding isn't a thing

notRobot2• 6 years ago

The system monitors phone signals to alert police and local officials if those in home quarantine move away from their address or turn off their phones. Jyan said authorities will contact or visit those who trigger an alert within 15 minutes.
Officials also call twice a day to ensure people don’t avoid tracking by leaving their phones at home.

I'd hate this so much. I get why they feel it's necessary, I do. But I still absolutely hate this.

I hope stuff like this doesn't get nomralized. Especially in other non-first-world countries

RivieraKid3• 6 years ago

I would be ok with this variation: lower physical check frequency, bigger fines.

Noumenon72• 6 years ago

That approach doesn't comport with human psychology. A higher probability of getting caught is far more deterrent than a higher punishment. This is why the parole system needs to be reformed to be "swift, certain, and fair". https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2015-09-09/-swift...

ShorsHammer2• 6 years ago

People love it. The amazing shift in online rhetoric that praises authoritarianism is scary.

Imagine this being rolled out for the flu.

vkou3• 6 years ago

If the flu caused the kind of havoc to our medical systems that COVID is causing, I'd want this rolled out for the flu, too.

RivieraKid3• 6 years ago

Of course they love it, the inconvenience it causes is nothing compared to the economic and health impacts of the virus.

jschwartzi• 6 years ago

Authoritarianism is occasionally useful when collective action is necessary to prevent a major disaster. Individual people have a tendency to take everything they can, like in cases where entire stores have been bought out of meat or toilet paper or cleaning supplies. An authoritarian approach of dictating what a person can and cannot do at a very fine-grained level can prevent these things from happening. For example, rationing is currently very popular as a way to maintain stocks of toilet paper for people who need it.

The key here is that we understand it to be for the common good. Whereas most authoritarianism is to force people to fit the same mold, here it has an application in keeping people from hurting each other by their actions.

dekhn5• 6 years ago

Generally, in the case of truly existential risk (IE, "everybody in the world will die if we don't do this thing") people accept the idea that authoritarianism (or rather, strong political powers overriding normal privacy concerns) are generally considered acceptable. covid itself is not an existential risk (nobody believes it will kill everybody, or kill enough people to make it impossible for the surivors to live), but the effects of long-term economic shutdown could pose a very serious risk.

What we want to avoid is stupid responses; for example, for all the people complaining that you needed an ID to travel on an airplane domestically in the US after 9/11, the real problems were the increased security theater- unnecessary changes that mainly existed to make people feel confident while travelling.

BurningFrog2• 6 years ago

Using force in the protection of the public good is the legitimate reason for forming a government in the first place.

Even strict libertarians believe in having a government to deal with crime, war and epidemics.

"Authoritarianism" is something else.

serf• 6 years ago

the worst is yet to come : living with all the authoritarian legislation that's attempted to be shoe-horned in with any emergency efforts.

robocat• 6 years ago

other non-first-world countries

Taiwan has been first world since the 1950’s (just to clarify to others reading the thread).

cycrutchfield• 6 years ago

Yeah, what the hell? Maybe the guy got Taiwan confused with Thailand?

gruez• 6 years ago

Taiwan has been first world since the 1950’s (just to clarify to others reading the thread).

In the technical sense, yes. By the same token, Ireland and Sweden are also "third world".

mmhsieh2• 6 years ago

more like the 1910s. Taiwan was fully electrified with flush toilets everywhere even before the U.S.

blululu• 6 years ago

Taiwan has been a well run country for a while, but the 50's were still difficult times for Taiwan. The civil war concluded in '49 and there were a lot of refugees. Based on the opinions of relatives, Taiwan really only hit 1st world status (good sewage, garbage and drinking water) in the 80's.

notRobot2• 6 years ago

Ah, yeah. Not sure why I put "other" in there.

shadowgovt• 6 years ago

We also hope the kind of isolation we're currently living under to avoid COVID-19 spreading doesn't become normalized. These two special circumstances could probably remain tied together.

bilal4hmed2• 6 years ago

Tracking like this has been one of the reasons for Singapores success to curbing the virus.

https://www.therakyatpost.com/2020/03/23/what-malaysia-can-l...

""If people don’t have symptoms, they’re put in home quarantine. And home quarantine is very strict. A couple times a day, you’ll get an SMS and you have to click on a link that will show where your phone is.

In case you cheat and leave your phone at home with someone else, the government has people knocking on doors now and then. The penalties are pretty harsh. ""

refurb3• 6 years ago

There was a Chinese person in Singapore who had PR and refused to follow the quarantine order.

They took away his PR status.

cma• 6 years ago

PR?

ValentineC• 6 years ago

Not only was the person's Permanent Residency revoked, but he was barred from re-entering Singapore even as a tourist: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid19-coron...

daveFNbuck2• 6 years ago

They send people door to door to interact face-to-face with known carriers? That sounds like a bad idea.

dylz• 6 years ago

They have PPE, if anything more PPE than hospitals in the US, and carriers should have surgical masks on.

mmhsieh2• 6 years ago

Taiwan doing this = effective. china doing this = creepy. however, probably necessary in both cases. perhaps a rhetorical cease-fire globally would benefit us all.

perennate• 6 years ago

It is probably both effective and creepy in both countries. The article even talks about how some find it creepy:

Taiwan’s electronic fence has drawn some complaints for its intrusiveness.
“It’s creepy that the government is teaming up with telecommunications companies to track our phones,” said a flight attendant in Taipei who was put under 14-day quarantine after returning from Europe in mid-March.
The woman, who identified herself as Xiaomei, said she was scolded by a local administrator after failing to pick up a check-in phone call in the morning when she was asleep.
“They said the police will come to me if I missed another phone call,” she said. “I’m treated like a prisoner.”

twomoretime2• 6 years ago

One of those countries is an authoritarian "communist" state with a well oiled dissent suppression machine.

dang• 6 years ago

Please don't take HN threads further into nationalistic or ideological flamewar.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

alkonaut3• 6 years ago

Taiwan doing this = effective. china doing this = creepy

That's the difference between a dictatorship and a democracy. You can have at least a little trust in a democracy to do the right thing when it does the necessary evil.

This pandemic isn't a reason to take the pressure of china when it comes to human rights. Quite the opposite.

nerdponx• 6 years ago

It's creepy in Taiwan too. Maybe necessary in the short term, but how do you get the government to willingly relinquish this kind of control once the need has passed? They will just keep making up reasons to keep it going, and eventually it will just become normalized and nobody will care that the government is literally tracking them 24/7 like Big Brother.

huangc10• 6 years ago

Like other people are saying, there's definitely ways around this. The only reason why Taiwan has been so successful in battling Coronavirus is that there is national pride in acting as a whole and doing what's best for society. There is huge shame to the family for people who defy. Taiwanese people generally know what helps society and when to listen. It is the cultural influence/mix of Chinese and Japanese governments which are deeply ingrained. Source, I am Taiwanese.

impendia• 6 years ago

I envy you.

I am American. I live near, and teach at, a large state university -- which has closed for the spring semester and moved to online instruction.

This past Friday there was a house party across the street -- presumably all students. Usually I am very chill, but this time I called the cops.

yongjik• 6 years ago

As a resident of the USA, thank you for your service.

landryraccoon• 6 years ago

I don’t think it’s only culture and this just happened by itself. The leadership of President Tsai Ing-wen (蔡英文) surely was a factor as well.

Culture works in conjunction with good policy and leadership. I would be wary of attributing too much to the relatively immutable and hand-wavy notion of culture.

autojoechen• 6 years ago

Their VP is also an epidemiologist by training, a public health researcher, and was the health minister during the SARS epidemic [0] so definitely seems like the right person in the right job at the right time.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chen_Chien-jen

unityByFreedom2• 6 years ago

Absolutely, the opposing candidate was very pro-unification with China. With Tsai they got sensibility and a former health minister as VP.

unityByFreedom2• 6 years ago

The only reason why Taiwan has been so successful in battling Coronavirus is that there is national pride in acting as a whole and doing what's best for society

I disagree. There are idiots in Taiwan that can ruin it just like anywhere. One nightclubber violating quarantine was just fined the amount cited in this article ($30k USD).

Taiwan has been able to control the virus as a direct result of electing Tsai Ing-wen in January 2020. Her Vice President managed the SARS outbreak for Taiwan in 2002-2004, and since Taiwan was not allowed to participate in the WHO, they had to figure out for themselves how to deal with that outbreak. They are now better prepared.

Tsai Ing-wen's opposing candidate, Han Kuo-yu, wanted to unify with China. He appeared to have momentum from winning the mayoral election in Kaohsiung, which is the 2nd largest city in Taiwan. Prior to his win there in 2018, Kaohsiung had always had a DPP mayor, DPP having been founded by people who fought for an end to martial law and the beginning of elections.

In fact, the elections in Taiwan were on January 11 and may have played a role in China's delay in notifying the world community about the outbreak. The doctor who wanted to share the news (and has since died due to contracting the virus) was detained on January 1st, and China did not announce the outbreak until January 20th.

Chinese-backed media was pushing Han Kuo-yu very hard during this election, spreading lots of fake news, and it was not clear whether or not he would pull an out-of-nowhere win like the other right-wing nuts who've been elected all over the world. Had he been elected, things would be different. I doubt he would have shut down flights to China. Fortunately, the Taiwanese people gave Tsai Ing-wen the biggest margin of victory Taiwan has ever seen in a presidential election.

jordwest• 6 years ago

Yuval Noah Harari (author of Sapiens) wrote a piece [1] on how we're now facing a choice between authoritarian surveillance and citizen empowerment, and how a decision made in this crisis could set the standard for the future.

[1] https://www.ft.com/content/19d90308-6858-11ea-a3c9-1fe6fedcc...

twomoretime2• 6 years ago

and how a decision made in this crisis could set the standard for the future

This here is really the problem, none of these emergency changes should necessarily become permanent. Income tax started out as a war fund some one or two hundred years ago...

But I sense we are fighting human nature.

state_less2• 6 years ago

And if not permanent, more common. Authorities might say, "We did it before and this flu is half as dangerous, so just to be safe, let's put everyone on the digital leash again." This sort control comes with its own costs.

Personally, I'd rather take my risks and live free.

wahern• 6 years ago

Income tax started out as a war fund some one or two hundred years ago...

Prior to industrialization almost all profit surpluses accrued to the elite, who always were taxed quite heavily. Industrialization meant the rise of the wage-earning middle-class and a shift in wealth (not to mention expenditures), thus the income tax.

mirimir• 6 years ago

No, income taxes in the US replaced taxes on alcohol after Prohibition. And they stayed after Repeal.

https://www.alcoholproblemsandsolutions.org/taxes-and-prohib...

endymi0n• 6 years ago

A fascinating counterpoint to this is the German government, who not just as probably the first country did something distinctly different to quarantine (it's called contact prohibition and you can go anywhere you like as long as you don't meet with more than one person not from your household), but also rejected mass cell phone surveillance plans by a large margin.

People here are mostly calm, cautious and despite a few outliers have largely high compliance rates from everything I see on the streets.

More authoritarian governments have the clear upper hand in fighting COVID-19, but I'm very curious how this will play out and if we can weather this situation just as well as a free and privacy-sensitive liberal democracy.

jlokier6• 6 years ago

Thanks! I wasn't aware of the German approach.

It would be very heartening if the German strategy works.

And I really like the way Germany remains consistently conscious of personal values, things like rejecting mass surveillance and looking for another way. It's one of the things I like best about Germany.

But it really depends how people behave next.

In the UK, the government has announcement a bigger lockdown with strong rules and enforcement, because at the weekend masses of people were simply ignoring requests to socially distance. Too many people were using the "time off" to go on holidays and cluster in high density situations, completely ignoring all health advice for the protection of themselves and others.

The German approach of "you're free to go around, but don't meet with more than one person" will only work if people actually comply.

onetimemanytime2• 6 years ago

>People here are mostly calm, cautious and despite a few outliers have largely high compliance rates from everything I see on the streets.

Shouldn't the virus spread little by little so people gain immunity and the hospitals can manage the number of patients? I doubt we can continue this shutdown for 12-18 months (vaccine) and who knows if meds cure it.

kwhitefoot• 6 years ago

Roughly similar here in Norway. We are just encouraged to stay at home, work from home, go out shopping only when necessary and stay at least a metre away from people and we are forbidden from shaking hands. Not a lot of enforcement on an individual level. but it seems to be working.

It works well here partly I suppose because the local culture doesn't expect you to get very close even at the best of times. One metre of separation is pretty normal so now we cross the road to get out of each other's way.

Not everyone gets it of course and bars are now closed by edict in Oslo because they would not enforce the one metre separation rule.

Shops are open and have signs saying keep a metre apart and places where you queue have marks on the floor to show how much distance this is. Most also have alcohol gels and single use gloves available for those who want to use them.

There are also signs saying please pay by contactless card or mobile app if you can.

I go out for a walk for about an hour every day as usual and now it feels like Sunday every day.

friedman23• 6 years ago

which has reported only reported 108 cases of the virus

absolutely amazing

martinpw• 6 years ago

According to this site it is 215 now (March 23):

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

This is just 3 days after the publication of the Reuters article, so it seems like it may be growing at similar rates to elsewhere (doubling every 3 days), just from a low base?

lifeformed5• 6 years ago

I'm in Taiwan in day 6 of home quarantine right now. We get a call every morning to check up on our health. I don't mind it, it's a simple and effective method and it gives me confidence in the government and society, knowing that everyone is taking the situation seriously. Once I'm out of quarantine, I can feel comfortable being outside living a normal life, knowing that all known potential carriers are contained.

bobbyd34• 6 years ago

How did they get your information for the daily call? Just curious. Is everyone required to submit contact information? Or did they already have the required contact info for daily health checkups?

RJIb8RBYxzAMX9u• 6 years ago

When you enter, you're required to fill out a health declaration form, which asks for your contact info. IIRC, it's not cross-referenced with immigration database. Naturally, some were not filled out correctly, maliciously or not.

Of the reported cases, police got involved to track down said persons, and they were fined depending on the severity of the infraction. I don't know if the form DB is now cross-checked with the immigration DB.

barkingcat3• 6 years ago

There is a national registry - if you have a birth certificate, if you have a passport, if you file taxes, if you've used a government service (ever), if you visited dentist/doctor at any point in your life, they have linked those records.

If you are visitor and if they need to, within a few hours of landing at an airport and arriving at your destination, you will get a phone call at your destination location/hotel, etc if the government needs to find you -

Have you ever wondered why you fill out those landing / immigration cards that they give you on the plane? For the US and Canada, those are only formalities. For Taiwan, the cards get scanned in and then the authorities will call the number you put on that card to see if you're there or if you've checked into the hotel, for example.

In regular times, this system is mostly used for things like catching overseas males dodging conscription for example, but the system is active already for times like these when it's critical to know where a person has gone after they leave the airport.

x0ul2• 6 years ago

My Taiwanese friends told me about this a few weeks ago, they said that the cell phone is issued by the government.

lifeformed5• 6 years ago

I had to do quarantine since I briefly left the country. When I came back, there was a quarantine line for everyone, where we gave them our contact info. After that, they sprayed us down and we got into a special quarantine taxi. The taxi ensures we only go home. We're not allowed to go anywhere else except to make a bathroom stop. If that happens, they call a number and a special janitor comes over to disinfect the bathroom.

crispyambulance• 6 years ago

The information problem is one thing, but having enough staff on hand to make thousands of regular phone calls and then even being able to respond to excursions (or phone power-off) in a matter of minutes... that's unimaginable for those of us in the USA.

Are these civil servants that have been re-purposed from other jobs? Are they telco company employees?

bobbyd34• 6 years ago

For instance... do you need a government issued ID to get a SIM card for a cell phone?

RaoulP5• 6 years ago

No, you don’t. As a tourist I could get a 30 day (unlimited data) SIM card with a phone number, over the counter.

I detailed my experience in another comment.

RaoulP5• 6 years ago

Once I'm out of quarantine, I can feel comfortable being outside living a normal life, knowing that all known potential carriers are contained.

I feel mostly the same. That’s what I’m looking forward to after this quarantine. I’m on day 6 as well - The lack of exercise or movement is the worst part.

agumonkey• 6 years ago

I personally am in the set of people that prefer proactive measures like that rather than waiting. I think confinement anxiety would become zero in your context.

beefok• 6 years ago

That sounds like the way forward, I wish things were working out that way here! (USA)

Off-topic but, I just discovered your music on spotify a few weeks ago and can't stop listening to your albums, amazing stuff man!

virtue3• 6 years ago

... Their music is legit good. Thanks for pointing that out!

CliffStoll• 6 years ago

Yes!

lifeformed5• 6 years ago

What a coincidence! Thank you, glad you like it :)

onetimemanytime2• 6 years ago

>That sounds like the way forward, I wish things were working out that way here! (USA)

The virus will go soon enough, one way or another, the surveillance state built for it, will not.

bobbylarrybobby• 6 years ago

Just want to say the Dustforce soundtrack is one my favorite video game soundtracks of all time

lifeformed5• 6 years ago

Thank you! :)

lifeformed5• 6 years ago

Regarding the privacy aspect: I think it's a valid concern but this seems like the right pragmatic approach for this situation. I would be more comfortable if they made us use a tracking app on my phone instead, since the app has an express purpose and I can remove it afterwards. But the phone tracking method they are using instead is more robust and tried and true, so it makes since to use that.

I guess the issue is not how they do it but if they should do it at all. I think freedom is a balance of what we want and what society needs. If we're living in a society, there's a degree of sacrifice in our personal freedom we must make sometimes. Things like vaccines, limits to speech, and taxes are examples of things that we agree are necessary to run a society that's better for everyone, at a personal cost to our own freedoms or resources. Finding that balance is tricky but I don't think that "maximize personal freedom always" is an approach that always leaves you better off.

The other thing is how much trust you put in your society and the government. Taiwan's government had a rocky past, but it's on a good trajectory of strong personal freedom and democracy now. I can forgive them for using this power in this extreme circumstance, but after all this is done, I'd like to see them review this process and ensure there are the right safeguards and oversights in place.

chrisco2552• 6 years ago

I'm not doing it and tens of millions would balk at the Federal government tracking like this. Sorry, that is way past the slippery slope to tyranny.

raphlinus• 6 years ago

Thanks for the first-hand report. I've been somewhat obsessed recently about the topic of how we might use tracking data to control the spread of the virus, including the experiences such as China, Taiwan, and Singapore, but have found not much English-language material. It seems to be slightly taboo to talk about.

Off-topic, my son is a big fan. Neon Shore is one of his favorites, so I have that playing as I type.

uranusjr• 6 years ago

Can’t speak for China and Singapore, but it’s most definitely not taboo to yalk about this in Taiwan. There is not much compiled information in English (for various reasons I’m not getting into, but ultimately most are just not interested), but you can piece together the picture by following local news. I found taiwannews.com.tw a pretty good source in English.

batushka3• 6 years ago

Lot of western people admire and want efective containment like in far east. Thing is, the success of measures is driven by submisive asian sociaties. Tell italian, spaniard or any other european to stay at home - full streats and parks of 'feeling well it's not your business'. Now police catches and fines. Asians in the mean while put up their masks and done what instructed.

Taniwha• 6 years ago

We're ALL going into at least a month's quarantine here in NZ in 24 hrs - the government hasn't just sprung it on us, they've worked up to it over the past few weeks, they started putting people coming from some countries (China, Iran, Italy) into 2 weeks isolation, then everyone entering, now we're putting the entire country into at least a month's isolation.

At the same time they've been making changes to support people who's jobs are going away (tourism is big, it's collapsed) and to keep businesses running (last week), mortgage holidays (today).

It's not going to be easy, there's going to at least be a recession, and we're likely to be cut off in some form for far longer than a month.

So yes you can do what China and other Asian countries have done in the West, but you do need real leaders capable of framing an issue so that the whole society can get behind it

sailfast2• 6 years ago

Why would such a mechanism of control incentivize those that feel sick to report their symptoms? Why would one submit to control at this level?

This sound similar to ankle-bracelet-level Parole / house arrest structures. In fact, I'd prefer that because it would only be providing a single source of sensor data to the government instead of possibly making my entire phone and location history accessible.

alkonaut3• 6 years ago

It works well enough if everyone considers the best of their society as more important than their own freedoms. So it's pretty easy to extrapolate where this might work and where it would be fruitless.

rootusrootus3• 6 years ago

The libertarian types who think the gov't shouldn't exercise this kind of authoritarian power also think their plan is the best for society.

sailfast2• 6 years ago

"The best of society as more important than their own freedoms" is a false choice here. I believe very strongly in working for the best of society which is why I bring up this very point. This kind of effect is also borne out in safety literature. If you want this to succeed to you have to remove consequences for reporting (and this means ensuring you are not overreacting to initial reporting or concerns)

There is surely a compromise option here as well where the government does not get the data and/or you do not give everything up in order to achieve this outcome?

Even a strict agreement about what specific data goes to the government, for how long, or having private companies or a purposely formed non-profit entity handle this would be better than handing your phone to your government.

I'm hardly a libertarian but I do think it's important to consider how best to protect hard won freedoms before running toward the expedient, safe-feeling choice.

zajio1am• 6 years ago

Agreed, ankle-bracelet is less intrusive as one is not bothered by check-in phone calls.

alkonaut3• 6 years ago

It's good that everyone sees and learns what these systems are and what they can be used for. Hopefully everyone can figure out what they can be used for, if used for the wrong purposes.

RaoulP5• 6 years ago

I’m in precautionary quarantine in Taipei right now, after arriving from a Level 3 country some days ago.

As a tourist, I had to provide a phone number of a contact person in Taiwan upon my arrival. They call the number and confirm it works before you even leave the CDC checkpoint at the airport. You also self report your health condition. I then stood in line for 4 hours to get a special taxi to my place of quarantine. Taking public transport is forbidden. Before finally getting into the taxi, I was sprayed all over (including the bottom of my shoes) with with I presume was disinfectant.

I was later requested to add a police officer on the social media platform Line, through which I’m now asked daily how I’m feeling, and offered help if I need anything. However I don’t think they can track my position through it.

There’s a stall selling cheap SIM cards for tourists at the airport, but it’s past the CDC checkpoint, so no tourist has a local number to provide. Perhaps they should move it upstream (and just provide the cards for free), if they want this “electronic fence” to be watertight. I’m not sure but I think I could technically go wherever I pleased right now.

bogomipz2• 6 years ago

I'm curious as a tourist what happens if you don't have a local contact? What happens if one has nothing but a hotel booking for accommodation instead of a home? I'm guessing that wasn't your case but were there others you heard or saw who were just regular tourists?

RaoulP5• 6 years ago

Actually my local contact was simply my Airbnb host. I had arranged the Airbnb only earlier that day, In response to the new travel restriction.

Other passengers provided the number of their hotel. The CDC called the hotel and (I believe) checked whether they were aware that these passengers were about to self-quarantine there.

Edit: even if you arrived without having anything booked at all, you can pay to stay at a designated quarantine hotel, though that is more expensive.

Also note that Taiwan doesn’t grant the “visa exemption” usually granted to tourists, when they now arrive from countries assessed as level 3 (requiring home quarantine). I was able to enter during a short window of time where home quarantine was instated but the new visa rules were not yet in effect. So I think it isn’t usual for the situation you described to occur.

dmix• 6 years ago

Quarantine violators can be fined up to T$1 million ($32,955).

Today Taiwan fined a guy $33k USD for breaking quarantine by going to a nightclub (not a positive COVID case just a mandatory isolation due to travelling):

https://asiatimes.com/2020/03/heavy-fine-for-taiwan-man-for-...

They aren't joking about the fines.

alainchabat• 6 years ago

small correction: NTD$100,000 (usd$32,955)

Taiwanese Dollars isn't that shitty (yet)

thatsnice2• 6 years ago

US$1 ~ 30.2NT so the original numbers seem correct.

futhey• 6 years ago

They also have a steep fine for failing to report symptoms when entering the country, and have fined at least one person from this rule as well.

To balance things out, they are paying a $466 stipend for those that complete the quarantine.

qwerty4561272• 6 years ago

I wouldn't feel comfortable being stripped of the right to have no phone.

flyt• 6 years ago

Then don't travel to Taiwan for a few months.

qwerty4561272• 6 years ago

What about the rest of the time? Is it easy to live without a phone in Taiwan? Can you buy a non-locked phone and a prepaid SIM card anonymously?

Animats• 6 years ago

I wish we had that in the US. We're about to begin the Great Dieoff.[1] That chart now updates every day at the URL, and is worth following.

[1] https://www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest

jb7753• 6 years ago

the system has drawn few [privacy] complaints in Taiwan

Yeah until after the coronavirus craziness is over and the (now tested) system is used by China to round up dissenters

knolax2• 6 years ago

You know this is an article about Taiwan right?

jb7753• 6 years ago

Look up the history of Taiwan and China.

bernardtapis• 6 years ago

Taiwan is trying really hard to attract foreign talents to boost their economy. If you're interested, check their Golden Card Permit. It's a visa+redisent card allowing you to stay and work for anyone there up to 3years. The only requirement is to justify of a an average salary of 160k NTD/month(~USD 5210/month), anywhere in the world. If you don't earn that, try the skills application[1]. I'll not talk about all the positive things about Taiwan, just read the other comments.

[1] https://foreigntalentact.ndc.gov.tw/en/cp.aspx?n=128B875DE9C...

darepublic• 6 years ago

Kind of incredulous seeing how many people are ready to forfeit all their freedoms so willingly. Simply can't wait for the government to keep us safe in our electric pens.

thatsnice2• 6 years ago

In Taiwan, shops / restaurants are open as normal and people are walking around freely, other than the tiny percent in quarantine. Meanwhile Europe and the US are increasingly locked down. So which one has more freedom?

RohitLakh• 6 years ago

I just want that this COVID-19 phase pass out and all the people to be cured. Doctors from all over the world are working for the cure and hope they find it!

jordache• 6 years ago

american exceptionalism! lol

Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

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