How Microsoft mobile tags are killing QR codes

http://blog.getsharesquare.com/wild/how-microsoft-mobile-tag-and-att-are-killing-consumer-qr-code-scanning-in-utero/

by slay2k • 15 years ago

56 59 15 years ago

blog.getsharesquare.com

ghurlman• 15 years ago

I have not once ever felt the need to scan a QR code to "learn more" - and it's not because of incompatible code types.

rksprst• 15 years ago

While that's true, that might change and Sharesquare is betting on that. It's still too early to tell where this market might end up (in the US).

In Japan it's as common as putting your website on an ad or business card.

X-Istence5• 15 years ago

Or, you can put a QR Code on a business card that represents a valid vCard, such as what I have done:

http://i.imgur.com/HpbLO.png

This allows someone to grab their mobile phone, scan the QR code and save the information to their address book. Now if they lose the card they still have my information on their smartphone.

I handed out many such cards at Black Hat and DefCon and they were a huge success with people.

njharman• 15 years ago

A while aback people, like you, said very similar thing when displaying your www addresses started getting popular. "I have never felt the need to type in an URL to "learn more""

I'm real fucking glad those people were ignored. I hope you are too.

tedunangst• 15 years ago

A number of differences. 1) I don't recall all that many people complaining about URLs, not like people ignoring QR codes. 2) I don't actually type URLs in that frequently, I search. 3) I can see a URL and remember it to visit later. Good luck seeing a QR tag in the subway and reconstructing when you get home. 4) The kicker. Can you name a company that based their entire business model on putting URLs on posters?

jodrellblank3• 15 years ago

And? What kind of boast is that? Do you want applause for being superior because you don't try things, or aren't curious, or diss anything you don't already use?

I see HP's WebOS tablet is going to have a "touch your WebOS phone to your tablet to transfer information between them, such as your currently open web page".

Well, you can do that right now - add this bookmarklet to your browser: http://code.google.com/p/qrbookmarklet/ and click it to get a QR code popping up encoding the URL of the page you are on. Scan it on your phone and you can quickly take the page you are on to your mobile in a cross platform way, without needing to dropbox or email the URL to yourself.

Just like HP is advertising with their WebOS tablet and WebOS phones, only without being WebOS only.

(The bookmarklet works in mobile safari so you could go the other way, if you could find a desktop reader).

I'd also really like it if there was a way to walk up to a bus stop, point my phone at it and have my phone know which precise bus stop I am at and then check on the net and say which busses are due next. Also trains.

Also, anything with a phone number such as a taxi or pizza place flyer could have a useful QR code with a vcard contact on it.

QR codes are not just a "learn more" marketing scam for URLs on adverts, it's a no-typing way of getting information into mobile devices.

mildweed• 15 years ago

if Android and Apple both integrate QR code scanning into their native camera apps, this problem would be solved.

jokermatt999• 15 years ago

It's not first party, but Barcode Scanner is very much a standard app for Android.

daleharvey• 15 years ago

the difference between first party and a popular app is pretty huge, I have always been confused at why they dont just bundle barcode scanner, it was originally built by google to be included

ENOTTY• 15 years ago

QR code scanning is also available in Google Goggles.

calloc• 15 years ago

Quickmark does an amazing job as a QR Code scanner on the iOS platform. Would being built in be awesome? Sure, but this app is the next best thing.

thinkcomp2• 15 years ago

We chose to use Code 128-C one-dimensional barcodes--the same kind the United States Postal Service uses for Media Mail ZIP+4 routing--for our payment system (http://www.facecash.com) because they're cheap and easy to read. I can't imagine why anyone would want to use Microsoft Tag. Normal barcodes have done quite well since their introduction in the 1960s.

mayank• 15 years ago

Out of curiosity, have you had any legal trouble with Facebook, given that they've trademarked "Face" and associated common nouns?

thinkcomp2• 15 years ago

http://www.facebook.com/press/releases.php?p=102338

dfox• 15 years ago

Microsoft Tag is complete application built on top of their proprietary symbology, which is part of the problem, because the tag itself does not bear information, it's only reference into some "highly scalable and flexible architecture". And for that, Code 128 might be better solution than their proprietary colorful triangles :)

By the way, we use Code 128-A with base32 encoding for our convention registration system as to simplify the situation when code cannot be read by reader and has to be typed in manually (on the basis that it is less error prone to type two five character blocks of base32 than significantly longer decimal number).

wazoox• 15 years ago

Don't worry, QR Code took over the rest of the world already.

gcb• 15 years ago

great analogy about the codes being like URLs.

those tags are like the AOL keywords of yesterday. No matter how much they advertise it on TNT, it's dead.

juiceandjuice• 15 years ago

Microsoft - Rebranding the wheel

marshray• 15 years ago

This claim that Microsoft's custom tags are "killing" other codes seems a little weird to me when I don't recall ever having seen one in the wild.

mgalica2• 15 years ago

"Trying to kill" would have been more apt I suppose. They're pouring tons of money into getting placements in women's mags. Which would also explain why most of us haven't yet seen one.

X-Istence5• 15 years ago

The biggest issue I see with the Microsoft tags is that the colours are blindingly annoying. For some reason my eyes try to blend the colours together and it gives me a headache. I don't have any such problems with QR Codes.

ja27• 15 years ago

I've never seen a Microsoft tag in the wild either. I've seen QR codes in almost a dozen places. Most of those were a Google Places link, but a local history museum uses them for links to an audio tour at each exhibit.

wccrawford• 15 years ago

I used QR codes to get data (usually text or URLs) onto my phone all the time. I've never once thought about using a 'ms mobile tag' instead. And I don't know anyone who has.

The death of QR is being greatly exagerated.

kenjackson5• 15 years ago

But if you saw an MS tag, or Mobile Tag, or ATT Tag would you say, "Screw that, where's the QR Tag?". Probably not. You'd just scan it too. No one really cares what the tag technology is as long as it works.

cgranade• 15 years ago

That's just the point: it doesn't just work. My phone has Zebra Crossing (Google's open-source barcode reader), which scans everything from UPCs to QR Codes to Data Matrix... but not Microsoft Tag or AT&T's mobile tag format. Given that I am not keen on the idea of installing three new apps for these various proprietary tag formats, it doesn't just work. Instead, I have to recognize it's in a non-standard format, find/download the right app, etc. That's a big pain for something that already works quite well.

albertsun• 15 years ago

I really don't understand at all. What's Microsoft's interest in pursuing an alternative format to the QR code? What could they possibly gain from it?

Joakal• 15 years ago

The same reason they tried to establish MSN as the only Internet there is.

shadowfox• 15 years ago

And what was that reason?

pedalpete2• 15 years ago

I suspect that there are business infrastructure tools with custom capabilities associated with the tags. Creating the tags may be free, but it doesn't say that getting the available features is.

X-Istence5• 15 years ago

All of the tags are pointing towards a URL they control, and it is a 301 redirect ... you get massive amounts of data for future ad campaigns that way.

JamieEi• 15 years ago

Here's what Microsoft says:

Microsoft Tag vs. Other 2D Codes

Linking real-world objects to deeper experiences on mobile phones started in Japan with QR Codes. Microsoft Tag provides a next-generation solution that offers many useful improvements. Tag is an end-to-end system that provides many capabilities beyond simply opening a URL, and is built upon a highly scalable and flexible architecture.

The Tag system uses a cloud-based back-end that provides access to data that just isn’t possible with earlier QR codes, such as reporting on how frequently and where your Tags are being scanned. In addition, Tags allow you to dynamically change your data source – unlike other 2D codes that are associated with a single, permanent URL, Tags can be updated as frequently as you like to point to new websites, allowing you to reuse campaign materials.

Tags can be created in a much smaller size and can be read faster and under a wider range of lighting conditions. Tags can also be customized to your brand’s specific look and feel, creating visually exciting codes that enhance your message and brand. Learn more about creating Custom Tags.

The Tag Reader application runs on all major phone platforms, and unlike older formats, every Microsoft Tag can be read by every Tag Reader, so there is no consumer confusion from incompatible solutions. Tags just work.

http://tag.microsoft.com/overview.aspx

slay2k2• 15 years ago

"every Microsoft Tag can be read by every Tag Reader, so there is no consumer confusion"

Hah, yes, much like every ActiveX-enhanced website could have been viewed by every IE6 browser. There certainly won't be any consumer confusion, what with none of the top barcode scanning apps supporting MS Tag and all.

gvb• 15 years ago

...and like "Plays For Sure."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_PlaysForSure

nlawalker3• 15 years ago

Amusing aside - on iPhone, Tag Reader will automatically detect and scan the tag when you hold it in front of the lens. On Windows Phone 7, you have to press the "Scan" button to open the camera, turn off the flash (because it's on Auto by default, and unless the surroundings are very bright, taking a photo of something that close will trigger the flash and the tag will be washed out), snap a picture, and then wait a couple seconds to see if the app can read the tag. If it can't, you have to press "try again," where you get to go back to the camera, turn the flash off again, and try once more.

kenjackson5• 15 years ago

From the lock screen what are the steps from each device? From your description I can't tell really what is going on.

pedalpete2• 15 years ago

That feature list in paragraph two is pretty weak.

Put google analytics on the page being retrieved by the tag, and you've got frequency and macro-location.

'Dynamically changing data-source?', I assume they are suggesting that the content retrieved is dynamic. Yet if the code is static, than the variables for the dynamic content aren't coming from the tag. So, again, this can be accomplished with any webpage.

The 'customized look' of the microsoft tag is probably its greatest weakness. If you look at the examples they provide, they aren't instantly recognizable as scannable tags, and they look horrible.

joshu2• 15 years ago

There is no way what they are talking about is a function of the tag. It is more akin to a physical URL shortened, I imagine.

naner• 15 years ago

So if QR codes are URLs, then MS Tags are bit.ly.

ChuckMcM• 15 years ago

Yes, where you give up traffic data to M$ and AT&T. I'm astonished that given that QR codes are royalty free that someone hasn't said "Oh gee, that is like a 10 minute web app", and blam.

jodrellblank3• 15 years ago

The Tag system uses a cloud-based back-end that provides access to data that just isn’t possible with earlier QR codes, such as reporting on how frequently and where your Tags are being scanned.

Translation: spyware.

joshu2• 15 years ago

More like URL shorteners.

mkramlich• 15 years ago

> The Tag system uses a cloud-based back-end that provides access to data that just isn’t possible with earlier QR codes, such as reporting on how frequently and where your Tags are being scanned. In addition, Tags allow you to dynamically change your data source – unlike other 2D codes that are associated with a single, permanent URL, Tags can be updated as frequently as you like to point to new websites, allowing you to reuse campaign materials.

These statements range anywhere from lie to falsehood to sly twisting of the truth. In reality, a QR Code-based system can do all of this as well. What they're trying to confuse with is the distinction between the printed code format and a supplementary service backend that can do, well, whatever one wants it to do, with the data scanned. Microsoft has obviously arranged for one particular service to be created, presumeably to monetize in some way.

I happen to have done some personal R&D in this area in recent months. One of the things that stuck out the most about QR Codes is that they are effectively an open format, not necessarily tied to one app or vendor. Well, more of a format framework for whatever app-specific format and processing system you choose to devise. Think bar codes raised to the power of two.

lambda• 15 years ago

Ha. So, they're saying that you can't use a URL shortener with analytics on a QR code? They're saying that their own system is more flexible than the URL, which anyone can put any dynamic service they want behind, rather than having to go through Microsoft? They think that you can't re-use a URL with a redirect for later campaigns?

Or maybe they're just lying through their teeth to try and sell a crappy proprietary product that will harm the entire mobile tag ecosystem for their own profit, or will fail like so many other attempts to control a market that they don't really understand just like PlaysForSure did, but probably causing some confusion and harm in the meantime.

motters• 15 years ago

As far as I know the Microsoft tags are patented, but the patents on the datamatrix codes lapsed in 2007, so that they can be freely used for any purpose without battles over royalties.

ivan_ah• 15 years ago

Though I agree that proprietary bar-codes are a no-no, I am not sure why QR codes are to be picked as the basis of a universal standard as opposed to datamatrix.

The two pictures shown on the right appear to be datamatrix barcodes....

nlawalker3• 15 years ago

For all of the "unique features" offered by each format, they all have the same primary feature in common, which is that they are primarily plastered on ads and take people with enough free time on their hands to scan them to yet more ads. Fragmentation isn't killing QR codes, businesses like ShareSquare are killing QR codes.

Mobile tags/QR codes/whatever will have more potential when people stop thinking of them as a way to take users to a webpage or show them something and start using them as a way to help users accomplish things. Show me a tag that adds a movie to my Netflix queue, adds a friend on Facebook or to a contact list, or puts a memo on my calendar.

mgalica2• 15 years ago

Here's an invite so you can make your own: bit.ly/ShareSquare. We're initially focused on allowing artists to better connect with their audience (by experiencing their music, downloading content, Liking on FB, etc) but I think you'll be inspired by some of the available functions, like running an Instant Win campaign. More on the way of course.

X-Istence5• 15 years ago

I've already posted this comment, and it seems apt to put it here as well since it helps the user accomplish something:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2261163

kenjackson5• 15 years ago

I can't imagine its hard to implement all of them on a device. Let the vendors decide which ones they want and the customers choose which they view as most valuable.

jzila• 15 years ago

While the article has a point, I don't like the misleading headline of this post. It went from what it should be, "Competing Implementations are Slowing 2D Barcode Adoption", to the blog post's slightly more sensational "How Microsoft, Mobile Tag, and AT&T are Killing Consumer QR Code Scanning In Utero", to this post's "How Microsoft mobile tags are killing QR codes".

Please try to phrase your headlines a little less sensationally, instead capturing the essence of the article.

corin_• 15 years ago

  Can you imagine an internet with hyperlinks that only work on Windows computers?

Nope, I love the internet just as it is, with all its hyperlinks that only work on Windows.

X-Istence5• 15 years ago

I decided to see what it would take for me to create a very simple "tag" that I could use to direct visitors to my personal website. Note I didn't adequately document my steps before writing this post, so it is from memory.

1. Go to the Microsoft tag website: http://tag.microsoft.com/ 2. Click the tag manager 3. Log in with your live id 4. Consent to a bunch of terms 5. Click create 6. Follow the steps to create 7. Click render 8. Accept more stuff: http://tag.microsoft.com/resources/implementationguide.aspx 9. Get a PDF of your new tag

The URL for managing your tags is called "ManageAds.aspx".

Then looking at the implementation guide we find this little gem:

"Because the idea of scanning bar codes with a mobile phone camera is fairly new to most people, Microsoft requires you to provide basic instructions near each Tag that explain to users how to download and use the Microsoft Tag Reader application. [...]"

Instead with QR codes I go to http://zxing.appspot.com/generator/ generate a tag, and place it where ever I want. None of my visitors first get redirected through a Microsoft website/URL which looks like this:

  http://rs.tag.microsoft.com/U5SS544JBBGQWZDY5SO3SJJIX346OUSE.aspx?Level=1&VID=5%2B0%2B0&afid=0&TH=_exokqW8DE19hOgWheA%24&CS=U8&PL=qqEVoS0iWnsgtvRRahUwDpOP3lT4xjm1ZQhbA1v%2B33Y_XTYDgevcIqCcZPkuEjELB_S2dmR7FAfr_dAU7ZpsqHgSe3FE77BcYAwWfau1zELNpxfdJk1Vein5v3cjXUd7%2BOHZPti%2BEtwgRV8TLufSDUotLWae4rA4wq5i1EErTH1B89lyMg%24%24

If I want to provide redirect features I can use a QR code that points to example.net/qr-code-poster and have it redirect anywhere in the world. I am still unsure as to why I would ever want to use Microsofts tagging stuff when clearly the user experience with QR codes is much simpler, AND I have more control over the content of the tag, and I can't just have a tag shutdown at the whim of a corporation if that is what it came down to.

How Microsoft mobile tags are killing QR codes

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