Why PHP is better than Ruby

http://najafali.com/php-is-better-than-ruby.html

by kgutteridge • 15 years ago

53 36 15 years ago

petercooper2• 15 years ago

PHP allows me to practice my typing skills, ruby doesn't. As a touch-typing enthusiast, I like to practice typing. The problem with ruby is that it allows me to do the same things that I can do in PHP, but with much less typing. [..] If I could create classes with public getters/setters that easily in my day-job, my fingers would atrophe and I'd get no exercise at all. I want my keyboard smoking after typing out a class definition, and a paltry three lines of ruby fails to satisfy.

This is certainly the best designed troll blog post I've seen but far from the most subtle..

bad_user2• 15 years ago

When the sarcasm is so clear, you can't call it a "troll".

Real trolling is an art :)

petercooper2• 15 years ago

You're right - I guess that's what I was trying to get at with the lack of subtlety. Or my standards have slipped.. ;-)

dexen4• 15 years ago

[[off-topic warning]]

``trolling is a art'' ;-)

djhworld• 15 years ago

He's played this one well, I'd imagine 90% of the readers would read the first paragraph and then run to HN/Reddit to lambast such a post.

jessedhillon• 15 years ago

Awesome. I think he could have picked some better criticisms of PHP though -- there's a truckload of them: http://www.quora.com/What-are-the-crawling-horrors-of-PHP

It really is the worst of all the in-demand languages these days.

kenver• 15 years ago

Read the article and there are a few times he compares php to rails - I didn't realise php was a web framework.

There are certainly things to dislike about PHP. but I think he's trying too hard in a few of the ones he cites.

callumjones• 15 years ago

I'm all for hating on PHP, but this article really does a lot to help the popular view that Ruby programmers are arrogant language elitists.

artpop• 15 years ago

Really? Hating? Sweeping generalisations? Attempt at spreading said "popular view"? Misappropriations of words? All in a single sentence? On HN? With upvotes?

This place is going downhill...

olalonde2• 15 years ago

I'm a Ruby programmer and totally agree with you.

kayoone2• 15 years ago

I am a long-time PHP programmer. I have first dabbled with PHP in 2000 when making a Page for my Quake2 gaming clans and i still love it. (yeah boo-hoo) That said, the syntax and language inconsistencies that are already described in this post (which come from its origin as a website toolkit) are really laughable. However, i got used to it over time. I can still produce results much faster than say with Java.

Also PHP has matured alot. I use the symfony framework for all the projects i do and its awesome, i think in some respects its even better than ROR and the upcoming 2.0 version will raise the bar even further. If this awesome framework wouldnt exist i would probably have switched to Python and Django by now, but as things are now i have never really felt the need to.

bad_user2• 15 years ago

Things you don't have when working with PHP:

     http://www.nltk.org/
     http://www.scipy.org/
     http://www.pygame.org/ :-)

I also worked with Symfony on a project. IMHO it's far, far away from being a match to ROR.

Though at the end of the day, you're most productive with the tools you know.

lukifer• 15 years ago

Symfony is a labyrinthine nightmare. CodeIgniter and CakePHP are much closer to Rails in usefulness and ease.

xiongchiamiov2• 15 years ago

When have you needed to use PyGame in a web application?

Different tools for different things. Use 'em when appropriate.

As a sidenote: from my extremely limited experience with PyGame and (Lua) Love, Love kicks PyGame's ass all over the map.

gurraman• 15 years ago

2005 called; they want their blog post back.

code177• 15 years ago

I am tired of the never ceasing language wars. It's true that some languages are more elegant than others, but at the end of the day the only thing that really matters to any person other than the programmer is whether or not they create something inspiring and/or useful.

All this time railing against other languages could be spent making awesome things, rather getting the proverbial tape measure out (yet again).

yuvadam• 15 years ago

Trolling or not, I cannot read these "my language is better" posts anymore.

izendejas• 15 years ago

I agree. The article I link below (and which I believe I first saw here on HN) should be closer to the model of what I would hope to see more of around here.

It gives you easy to read data which I believe is often more helpful than any opinions because at the end of the day you want to know, what are the trade-offs between performance and development time*, among other things. And it's also careful to point out many relevant caveats.

http://faves.eapen.in/performance-comparison-c-java-python-r...

dexen4• 15 years ago

The points the blogger touches are mostly three-fold:

* backward compatibility: a valid issue. Some of the APIs PHP exposes come from different backgrounds than others, and to serve the (un)holy cow of the backward compatibility, argument order is preserved. Regretably the PHP lang designers did not choose to deal with the issue, and instead fell for the trap of backward compatibility :-(

* syntax: conventions were carried from C and derivatives. Not a valid issue -- the syntax is perfectly OK for a language without macro capability. (should there be macro facilities like in LISP, complex syntax would be a no-no, but that's not the case in PHP).

* Java-isms like countless getter/setter methods: not a valid issue; nothing in PHP suggests that way of use. Merely bad habits on the part of the blogger. Get over it :-)

For the once-in-a-blue-moon need of real getter/setter, use __get(), __set(), _call() etc. methods.

[EDIT: style]

masklinn2• 15 years ago

> For the once-in-a-blue-moon need of real getter/setter, use __get(), __set()

Unless I am mistaken, __get and __set in PHP are similar to Python's __getattr__ and __setattr__: they are global to the instance and the dispatching has to be performed manually.

It can be used for properties, but it looks like shit, it feels like shit and you'll likely fail to match the language's own semantics when it's invoked with the "wrong" field name.

As far as I can see, the PHP convention on "static" getter and setters follows that of Java indeed, just as PHP's object system was lifted from Java.

dexen4• 15 years ago

Yes and no :)

Indeed, PHP's __get()/__set() behave the way you describe.

And if you have numerous getter/setters, it will feel and look like shit indeed -- in any language, no matter how terse the syntax. However, in that case the problem is with program design, not with the language itself. Ask your co-workers kindly not to carry over Java thinking into PHP world. Really, each language performs best when used in its default way.

Second, the PHP's ``own semantics when it's invoked with the "wrong" field name'' is simple: issue a warning with E_NOTICE level on read access. You implement that exactly with trigger_error("some msg", E_NOTICE). Same semantics, end of the story. Will be reported, or not reported, depending on error_reporting configuration.

Also, you have __call() in similar vein, which lets you do pretty neat results: http://scriptor.github.com/pharen/index.html

mkramlich• 15 years ago

Many of the positive points he cited for Ruby are true of Python as well. Except you don't have to type end end end end end end end end everywhere.

Now I'll get myself-self-self-self-self off to bed...

kingofspain• 15 years ago

I long ago gave up trying to justify why I still use PHP as there will always be a counterargument (usually a long one) about how wrong I am. Once you get to that stage, there's a kind of serenity to be achieved :)

robryan2• 15 years ago

One I think is libraries for API's, sure this might not be the case among the latest breed of startups but I think overall your most likely to come across a PHP library and example code than Ruby.

xiongchiamiov2• 15 years ago

The only issue is that at least 80% of PHP code you'll find on the net is utter crap.

smokestack• 15 years ago

"Oh, look! An opinion that goes against the mainstream on the news.yc frontpage."

"Oh, got baited into another anti-PHP rant."

I know that PHP has tons of suckage but it's a point that's been made ad nauseum. No need to point out that Hitler wasn't that nice of a guy. We all know.

tintin2• 15 years ago

Did he never hear about CTRL + Space? Anyway. If you don't like PHP just don't use it.

olalonde2• 15 years ago

Mind explaining the ctrl+space reference? (I assume it's a Windows thing?)

tintin2• 15 years ago

Most IDE's use this for auto-completion.

Newky• 15 years ago

I use php in my part time work every day, and I can honestly say this hilarious post made me consider using ruby. Unfortunately, I am the sole developer/maintainer on a huge project which languages don't stretch beyond php.

I came to this project in this state and I must say that clean code like demonstrated in this post, would have made the cleanup job I've attempted a heck of a lot easier.

Php is easy, but messy php code is not only extremely unsecure but also extremely hard for a new developer to adapt to.

robryan2• 15 years ago

My own PHP work where I have been the sole developer for most is great for me to work with. Having to mod a zen cart over the past week though makes me agree with you, that thing most be the kind of messy and obscure PHP open source projects.

baggachipz• 15 years ago

I see what you did there.

eik3_de• 15 years ago

Even more reasons: http://www.bitcetera.com/en/techblog/2009/04/07/10-reasons-w...

My favorite: DRY won’t Pay your Bills

Why PHP is better than Ruby

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