In Silicon Valley, some men say cosmetic procedures are essential to a career

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/01/09/silicon-valley-some-men-say-cosmetic-procedures-are-essential-career/

by lxm • 7 years ago

91 174 7 years ago

washingtonpost.com

thatfrenchguy2• 7 years ago

Only the previous week, he says, he returned from a 10-day trip to Italy’s Amalfi Coast

We really need to start CO2 emissions from flying / day of vacation, because 10 days to Italy is really ridiculous.

mistrial9• 7 years ago

How about four days in Nepal for a wedding, from California, because "status"

selimthegrim4• 7 years ago

Some of us have families that can’t get visas to the States trivially. Lighten up, Francis.

scarejunba2• 7 years ago

Wouldn't you prefer _longer_ vacations? With shorter vacations you're incurring the carbon cost for flights for less value. Unless that's what you were implying.

longerthoughts2• 7 years ago

They were making a joke about the phrasing because it sounds like it was 10 days of travel to reach Italy.

sjg007• 7 years ago

Sounds relaxing... wish I could relax.

maximente• 7 years ago

assuming you plan to return does it matter if the trip is 1 day, 10 days, 100 days? you still have two flights.

longerthoughts2• 7 years ago

They were making a joke about the phrasing because it sounds like it was 10 days of travel to reach Italy.

truculent• 7 years ago

you can fit a lot more 10-day trips into 365 days than 100-day trips

thatfrenchguy2• 7 years ago

Personal benefit versus cost to the planet ? You’re emitting 10x less CO2 per day if you stay there 10x as long :-)

bdcravens2• 7 years ago

This just in: there's bias based on appearance. Outside of SV, being the wrong skin tone, wrong gender, not pretty enough, too pretty, not tall enough, etc are all attributes that have been unfairly affecting workers, since, well, forever.

gnulinux• 7 years ago

You would have thought when you're engineer you'd only be judged based on your technical skills, your work output, performance, efficiency, ideas, design etc. Most of my team is remote so for all I know they're just those things I listed above, and a voice and a pixelated set of images Google hangouts show me. It's devastating that people still need to be discriminated in this industry.

0xff00ffee2• 7 years ago

Your list has one glaring exclusion: social skills.

If you're a brilliant programmer, but an asshole and proud of it (or unaware of it), then yes, you will not get far on your skills alone.

Whether we like it or not, we are all part of a society, and those who choose to rebel against that, well, that's thier choice and accept the consequences. (Follow up: you can't really hide behind remote work if you lack social skills. Possibly, but not very likely.)

EDIT: Snark removal.

catalogia5• 7 years ago

"You would have thought when you're engineer you'd only be judged based on your technical skills [...]"

I'd not think that unless I was working with Vulcans from Star Trek. It's foolish to expect engineers to be immune from the messier irrational aspects of human interaction. I think perhaps some 'engineer types' confuse the concepts of how something should be and how it actually is. They think they should be judged solely on the quality of their work, so they mistakenly believe they will be judged so. Confusing that which should be and that which is.

threatofrain• 7 years ago

You would have thought when you're engineer you'd only be judged based on your technical skills, your work output, performance, efficiency, ideas, design etc.

The same could be said about most non-customer facing jobs. But I would expect beauty and age-based bigotry to be relevant everywhere in the world.

bdcravens2• 7 years ago

Keep in mind we're talking about SV jobs here, and particularly in the context of the article, where meatspace apparently still matters. In today's world, as you alluded to, it's not necessary to work that way.

sukilot• 7 years ago

What a weasel-worded title!

Better title: "In some places, some people say some things"

pc86• 7 years ago

That's not what a weasel word is. Weasel words are things like "potentially" and "possibly" that you can put into otherwise declaratory statements so that when you're shown to be wrong you can fall back on "well I said possibly!" or similar.

QuercusMax• 7 years ago

Saying "some men" is a pretty weasely phrasing. "Some" could mean 2. It could mean millions!

I bet "some men in Silicon Valley" are doing all kinds of things. Some men in Silicon Valley enjoy eating Durian. Some men in Silicon Valley enjoy being punched in the testicles. That doesn't mean anything, though.

mrec• 7 years ago

I haven't read TFA because the title alone is horrific enough, but it sounds awfully like a what PG calls a "submarine".

http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html

anon90016• 7 years ago

I'm pretty convinced that the most important thing you can do for your career after achieving basic technical competence is to be more attractive, both physically and socially.

The reality is that you're going to have an easier time making connections and getting access to opportunities if you're well-mannered, sociable, and attractive.

opportune• 7 years ago

This is absolutely true and applies to more than just your career. When I was fatter vs when I was in shape I’ve noticed huge differences in how strangers treat me and how much acquaintances want to get to know me.

mmanfrin• 7 years ago

I've been big most of my life, for a few years I managed to drop 100lbs and unfortunately gained it all back. It's staggering how differently people treat you, whether they realize it or not.

LargeWu• 7 years ago

Also, be tall, that doesn't hurt.

bb884• 7 years ago

Interesting story about China and leg lengthening procedures.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&obj...

anon90016• 7 years ago

It's also not a bad idea to be rich, and whatever the most desirable gender and ethnicity are for your area, but those things are less actionable than social skills, fitness, and beauty.

heyheyhey• 7 years ago

Well, these days, being attractive conflates with being already tall.

jelliclesfarm17• 7 years ago

https://news.yahoo.com/men-paying-76-000-limb-155514396.html : just read this..what a coincidence!

[..] Some men and a few women are getting plastic surgery to lengthen their limbs and grow up to six inches taller.

Dr. Kevin Debiparshad, founding surgeon at The LimbplastX Institute in Las Vegas, Nevada, has performed this procedure on more than 30 people since opening his practice in 2018.

The two-hour, $76,000 procedure involves minor breaks in the leg bones, nails and screws, and physical therapy. It takes a full year to see the end results.

Some patients may lose some athletic ability, and a psychologist previously told Insider "cosmetic procedures don't have a lasting effect on people's positive body images nor their general well-being." [..]

yters5• 7 years ago

Yes, totally. I notice a significant difference in how I'm treated, and even perceived technical proficiency, based on whether I'm in shape or not. Being well groomed also helps, but being in shape with sharply defined facial features seems the most significant thing. Losing the glasses and wearing contacts helps, too.

OTOH, if I want to get by based on actual technical merits instead of outward attractiveness, then best to optimize technical and communication skills. Physical appearance comes and goes, but the latter have more staying power.

malux85• 7 years ago

It not totally superficial - a good haircut, shaved face, groomed nose hair, groomed ear hair, nice, clean ironed clothes and good shoes is signalling - it’s saying “All the little things have been dealt with and I have attention to detail - and I am also wise enough to acknowledge that this is signalling and I’m willing to play the game”

virtuous_signal• 7 years ago

I wonder how this all fits in with the recent trend towards Stoicism in Silicon Valley:

From Epictetus, a father of Stoicism

1. Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions.
The things in our control are by nature free, unrestrained, unhindered; but those not in our control are weak, slavish, restrained, belonging to others. Remember, then, that if you suppose that things which are slavish by nature are also free, and that what belongs to others is your own, then you will be hindered. You will lament, you will be disturbed, and you will find fault both with gods and men. But if you suppose that only to be your own which is your own, and what belongs to others such as it really is, then no one will ever compel you or restrain you.
23. If you ever happen to turn your attention to externals, so as to wish to please anyone, be assured that you have ruined your scheme of life.

sharadov3• 7 years ago

The Stoicism is being dished out by the billionaires(Jack Dorsey comes to mind), who have already made it, and want to somehow appear above all worldly things to the masses.

teh_infallible• 7 years ago

It seems rather disempowering to include “body” in the list of things not under your control. That control is not complete, but it exists to an extent.

sdinsn2• 7 years ago

recent trend towards Stoicism in Silicon Valley

What trend? I haven't noticed this at all

wongarsu• 7 years ago

It follows that in any group of people equally advanced in their career, the worst dressed most socially awkward person likely has the highest skill. After all they need to balance the deficit with something to get equally far.

sbierwagen• 7 years ago

https://brilliant.org/wiki/berksons-paradox/

wincy• 7 years ago

If you're choosing a doctor, choose the one who looks like a butcher instead of the one that looks like a doctor. He's more likely to be good at what he does.

Nassim Taleb talks about this concept in his books.[0]

Edit: Here it is – https://medium.com/incerto/surgeons-should-notlook-like-surg...

shrimpx• 7 years ago

Maybe on average across many fields and job positions? But I definitely don't believe this as a universalism. The "catalog chic", gym culture and dieting trend in SV is fairly new. 20 years ago it was graybeard chic. Alan Cox was an icon. Pictures of the Google team from the 2000s are a bunch of poorly kempt nerds. And into today lots of engineering teams don't give a shit about looks and look squarely for competence. Honestly if I see an engineering team of sexy well groomed people it raises at least a bit of skepticism that these people, in addition to driving a culture of being good looking and we'll groomed, might also care about technical excellence. That's not to say that I discriminate. But whole eng teams self selecting to be sexy (and I have company profile links I could post here but I won't) raises questions about where the core emphasis is when hiring.

monocularvision• 7 years ago

https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/tv-funhouse-se...

rayiner• 7 years ago

Only the previous week, he says, he returned from a 10-day trip to Italy’s Amalfi Coast. Before that, he boasts, he journeyed to a yoga retreat and juice cleanse in Bali, the perfect setting to unload the stress he absorbs working at a well-known tech company in Silicon Valley. After ending a five-year marriage and shedding 10 pounds of subcutaneous fat several years back — his sun-kissed body now carb- and toxin-free — Daniel has reemerged a new, seemingly younger man.

This must be fake. This does not describe any software developer I’ve ever met. (Maybe because I’m on the east coast but engineering culture can’t be that different, can it?)

Bahamut• 7 years ago

Tech worker doesn't necessarily mean software engineer.

thrav2• 7 years ago

At 48, it seems highly likely that he's in leadership.

closeparen2• 7 years ago

Yeah. It does sound like a number of product managers I know.

andrei_says_2• 7 years ago

I’ve worked both on the east coast and in Cali and California is a very different place.

JumpCrisscross• 7 years ago

in Cali and California

What's this?

ratsimihah• 7 years ago

What do you mean? Which part of it does not concur with your idea of a software developer?

DubiousPusher2• 7 years ago

I'd guess this is a bit of a West coast thing. I've known quite a few health obsessed engineers here.

I myself was very fit and usually tan, at least in summer, until I found myself a lot more other serious life responsibilities.

hutzlibu2• 7 years ago

Children?

Thats the case with me at least ... not much time for sport anymore.

bb884• 7 years ago

One theory is that good looking software engineers aren't software engineers for very long.

Why would you get paid shit wages when you can be a VP of telling people what to do?

Call it the "jock-ification" of the tech world. It was bad enough when they were in high school, now they've infiltrated the tech world.

catalogia5• 7 years ago

"Call it the "jock-ification" of the tech world. It was bad enough when they were in high school, now they've infiltrated the tech world."

The "jock/nerd dichotomy" is a dumb harmful stereotype used by lazy hollywood and television writers. Many of the smartest people I've ever known were also the most athletic. There is NO inverse relationship between physical fitness and intelligence. If anything, there is a positive correlation between the two, as being healthy and well nourished makes you more likely to realize both your physical and intellectual potential.

thfuran• 7 years ago

Why would you get paid shit wages

I'm not sure we're working in the same industry / living in the same world.

natalyarostova• 7 years ago

East coast journalism has a fetish for hating and describing SV engineers in the worst possible ways.

sigstoat• 7 years ago

journalists compete with tech organizations for advertising dollars, so it isn't surprising they demonize their competitors.

jelliclesfarm17• 7 years ago

Yes, it can.

dx87• 7 years ago

I work on the East coast, and I've had multiple managers complain about having to work with developers on the West coast. They said it's like working with divas because they frequently refuse to attend customer meetings or keep anyone in the loop with what they're doing because they think it's beneath them.

rchaud3• 7 years ago

This sounds less like a developer and more like an Adam Neumann type. So, not the worker drones who do the unsexy job of putting stuff together and making it work, but the charismatic Don Draper type who goes to pitch billionaires on the "vision".

frandroid• 7 years ago

It's California... A friend of mine who is quite attractive and _maybe_ had an extra 10 pounds moved to Southern California for grad school, and immediately felt like she was fat and started going to the gym, whereas I had never her mention her weight before. The social environment is just that different.

SamReidHughes• 7 years ago

But that's SoCal, which is a bit different in that respect.

I'm not sure how exactly... maybe in NorCal she'd go rock climbing or something.

fortran772• 7 years ago

I'm 57 years old and work about 8 months/year in Silicon Valley (the rest in Tel Aviv) I dye my beard (my head is shaved) and I've had work done on my face. I'm careful to stay in shape, and not be overweight. It makes a big difference in how I'm perceived.

TrueGeek• 7 years ago

Is your username accurate or have you moved on from Fortran?

fortran772• 7 years ago

We do CUDA/C++ mostly

jacquesm4• 7 years ago

The day I have to dye my beard or get plastic surgery to stay relevant in tech is the day I'll happily retire.

aaron6952• 7 years ago

What you miss is you'll find it harder to prove you are relevant as you age.

On things people fresh in the industry are up on, you'll will be behind on. You might still be 100% relevant to the job at hand but you will find it harder to show.

This exists today, the only thing that will change is it will apply to you.

If you're happy to let age beat you, then it's up to you. If you are morally unhappy tech does this you should really retire today. I get plastic surgery might be considered a large step, although I think that's cultural, but it's hard to argue dying a beard is a huge price to pay.

oppositelock4• 7 years ago

Other commenters may be dismissing this article as obvious, but silicon valley does have a problem, particularly in young, hip startups. These companies want to hire young, hip people, and when products being produced are very vague with no clear market, then things like image matter a lot. Juicero, comes to mind. That's fine, you don't have to work there.

However, as you get older, develop wrinkles and grey hair, that appearance of being older far outweighs your experience in initial impressions that you make. I've personally been a software engineer since 1995, quite a while now. My hair is grey, my face has wrinkles, and I'm an expert in several domains. When I go interview for a new job, it's typically by people younger and less experienced than me, since I'm definitely past the median age in this industry. I get asked questions like, "do you feel you still have relevant knowledge", or "we do things differently than in your day", or "do you think you can work in a fast paced environment", etc.

Tech is arrogant and judgmental and image matters a lot. I can understand how people might resort to plastic surgery to buy themselves a few non-judgmental years.

j7ake• 7 years ago

Sounds like an opportunity for start ups to pick up undervalues talent through some “moneyball “ approach

3fe9a03ccd14ca5• 7 years ago

Good engineers are smart enough not to work at “hip” places unless it comes with a hip paycheck as well.

thrav2• 7 years ago

Not only do they only want to hire those types, but I've been in plenty of rooms where the stereotypical young engineer outright refuses to acknowledge the older people in the room, as if they're beneath him/her. They have no respect for that person's opinion, and therefore show zero respect to that person.

We've all been in rooms where someone misses the point, or says something that proves they're not keeping up with the conversation -- it happens. What's unique about people in the bay is how unforgiving and judgmental they can be about those errors, and it's only heightened if the person is above a certain age.

oppositelock4• 7 years ago

Yes, and this happens to women too. For those among us who are engineers, imagine your typical design review or technical meeting. When your average, male engineer who is young enough presents an idea, he is generally given the benefit of the doubt. An older engineer, or a female engineer, is not given the benefit of the doubt and must overcome an additional level of skepticism before their ideas are accepted. Having done this for a while, I've seen a lot of this. I've worked at two of the FAANG companies, and it was particularly bad there. Things actually seemed more egalitarian in the 90's, I don't think we're making progress in this area.

anon90016• 7 years ago

I think this cuts both ways. I'm getting older, but I get along really well with the fresh meat.

What works for me is to come across as an OG hacker and stay up to date on whatever the hot tech is. I'm also as immature as ever and have a pretty good command of dank memes, which I think helps more than people want to admit. I'll follow the culture wherever it goes, the same as I have since I was a teenager.

I just always try to expose myself to everything so I know what's going on, from 4chan to reddit to HN to NPR to Fox News. IMO cultural awareness is the key to appearing "young", even if your physical appearance is older.

oppositelock4• 7 years ago

The other way experience helps is that you don't really need to interview at unknown places if you want to work somewhere. Over time, you've built up a professional network, and you can generally switch jobs via that network, instead of walking in the front door. Having a deep specialty in something allows you to work with other such specialists.

sharadov3• 7 years ago

Am similar to you in a lot of ways, you gotta be the cool kid and in the know. I know too many friends who've gone the other way, always dissing Millenials and have grown prematurely old.

ASalazarMX• 7 years ago

TL;DR "Hello, fellow kids!"

I'm sorry, if this works for you, more power to you. I agree that you have to make an effort to keep up with the field, but keeping up with the teen culture on top of that would take a significant toll in my sanity.

nojvek• 7 years ago

I past 30 now. Most of my friends are managers but I love building things and chose to be an IC.

I think tech is very fast paced. You gotta constantly be learning. Terraform, k8s, docker, rust, js frameworks, other language paradigms, deeplearning etc

It’s a lot to learn on your own.

Places you interview may ask “have you used React / Some X tool”, the best response you can give is “yes, I’ve dabbled myself and built X prototype”. Or for core things “yes, I’ve had my fair share of experiences and contributed Y to their open source repos”

ncr100• 7 years ago

"do you feel you still have relevant knowledge", or "we do things differently than in your day", or "do you think you can work in a fast paced environment",

This is illegal age discrimination, in my opinion. Consider suing them.

oppositelock4• 7 years ago

Suing is expensive, and time consuming, and stressful. It's best to move on to someplace without their attitude problem.

throw0x1away• 7 years ago

Nothing new here? It's just a basic human factor? Not only essential for the career, even interviews go a lot smoother if you are a pleasant to look at, deal with. It's the first impression that gets you ahead. If you are competent enough not to ruin it by talking, you are golden!

Still, surgeries is kind of extreme, but lets be honest, even some basic things like a shower and deodorant can help a lot of devs.

S_A_P2• 7 years ago

I will provide a bit of anecdata. I went from not really fat, but kinda just mushy to my high school weight when I was ~30 and started working out and did a lot of running. The way I was treated be everyone was drastically different(better). I then had a severe foot fracture that required surgery and 12-18 month recovery. Running has proven difficult even 5 years later. I am regaining some pudge, and notice that royal treatment I used to get is not there anymore. I will also say that my mind is nowhere near as sharp. 2020 is the year I get back in shape, and will see if that makes a difference again...

wikibob• 7 years ago

Can you swim instead?

S_A_P2• 7 years ago

I can- but I generally dislike it. Running was a meditation for me, and I loved how I would 1) count my steps for a while until I got in the zone and then 2) time and problems would fall away.

Ive not experienced that while swimming...

jm202• 7 years ago

Attractiveness has always affected opportunities afforded to people and other people’s perceptions of you. This is not just in tech. Hell, it influences elections! This is just human nature and has been studied extensively. It’s just trendy to bash Silicon Valley for this, because, you know, everyone on Wall Street is wearing suits for the comfort factor...

However, I think there’s an upper bounds on where that matters, and I think it mostly matters when climbing the corporate ladder. If you look at the richest men in the world, most are not supermodels.

The moral of the story - if you want to play the game you have to play by the game’s rules. Otherwise, play a different game.

catalogia5• 7 years ago

Of course conformity is the reason for the suits, but I'd like to point out that if you're wearing suits 5 days a week it would be foolish to not buy a comfortable one. Good materials and a good fit can make for a very comfortable suit.

More comfortable, I dare say, than the casual attire I must wear when working for west coast tech companies, lest I not conform to west coast tech company expectations. T-shirts and hoodies lose their charm when they start to feel like a requirement. Nice silk suit trousers feel nicer than blue-jeans, if they fit well they feel as nice as pajamas, but the looks you get in a west coast tech offices when you wear such clothing are withering.

sokoloff2• 7 years ago

The (somewhat) new stretch denim (with 1-3% elastane) makes for amazingly comfortable jeans. If you haven't tried a pair, give them a shot.

WWLink3• 7 years ago

Yeah, in an ideal world, I really don't give a damn what my coworkers wear. Seriously.

In a less ideal world: As long as management doesn't get the idea to mandate dress clothes or GOD FORBID business casual, I'm fine.

Fuck business casual. I will never ever ever ever wear a polo shirt. Polo shirts are for old hairy guys that play golf.

hadiz5• 7 years ago

Also, unattractive people would feel like shit in this environment.

rchaud3• 7 years ago

The richest men in the world didn't get rich as an employee of someone else, which is the case for most people in the article and on this board. They either created a company, inherited or married into wealth, or simply looted and pillaged it from other people.

These people make up an infinitesimally small proportion of the general population, and as such don't make for a good counter-example.

jm202• 7 years ago

They make a good counter-example to the point of playing a different game. If you want to get rich, there are other ways to get there without having the worry about the attractiveness factor.

jelliclesfarm17• 7 years ago

I am very pro-body modification. And it’s affordable to the masses now and safer with non invasive medtech.

One day...I hope in my lifetime..we will be able to have implants to download our thoughts, memories and feelings..dare I say..consciousness..or soul..into a chip.

Looking at the physical body as a vessel and getting used to the idea that it is merely necessary hardware to our mind is important.

I don’t want to create children for immortality. I want to be immortal as myself.

It’s not about hacking biology. It’s about hacking immortality. This is the first step. Tiny one. But crucial one.

19965• 7 years ago

Count me in! I don't want to squander my resources on anyone but myself.

As I often say, give me death or give me immortality!

I am hopeful some crypto billionaires will share the same mindset, and pour resources into anti aging research at the cellular level.

jacquesm4• 7 years ago

I've got bad news for both of you: you're going to die, and you won't be resurrected. So better live your lives as if every day matters.

jelliclesfarm17• 7 years ago

you could start with intermittent fasting. Can’t guarantee immortality but hey! It’s free.

lifeisstillgood• 7 years ago

So SV is slowly becoming like other large industries - you win less in value created than on internal politics - on impressing a VC instead of amazing a customer, on impressing the boss not actually managing a SLA.

Perhaps it is how SV eventually fizzles out- it must happen sometime.

rchaud3• 7 years ago

SV has already fizzled out. The two biggest SV successes of recent times (Google and FB) sell advertisements and surveillance services under the guise of "connecting people" or "information discovery".

Its hot new bets are in food delivery and e-bike sharing. And even after sinking in billions there, they can't figure out how to turn a profit.

jchw• 7 years ago

Really? I’m ugly as hell and I’m doing great. I also wouldn’t say my colleagues are unusually attractive or anything. Silicon Valley feels like a place where appearance matters less than many places to me. Am I out of touch?

sharadov3• 7 years ago

Really? I moved to the Bay area from LA and all I see are out of shape, badly dressed tech workers. Blame it on all the free food and high-stress lifestyle.

oarabbus_• 7 years ago

Be tall and attractive is _literally_ the advice people are giving in this thread, and it doesn't even seem that tongue-in-cheek.

sdinsn2• 7 years ago

It's not tougue-in-cheek. Data shows that attractive people have better careers.

newnewpdro• 7 years ago

Appearing fit and healthy, especially for your age, is like activating easy mode for life in general.

I've yet to see a down side, other than losing the short-lived pleasures of eating garbage food constantly. But the novelty of that wore off long ago, it pales in comparison to an active and healthy lifestyle.

- Formerly overweight/borderline obese person enjoying an ideal BMI for over a decade now.

jcomis• 7 years ago

I'm being a bit hyperbolic I'm sure, but this seems to go hand in hand with the "culture fit" obsession with most interview processes. It's really just a gauge of how "cool" and "likable" the person seems. Speaking from witnessing it on both sides of the table.

40acres• 7 years ago

Really tired of the lazy trend in journalism where you find 2-3 "eccentric" software developers and label their lifestyle as a SV trend.

Diederich3• 7 years ago

I'm older than the person mentioned at the top of this article, and I've made no efforts to hide it.

I've been in the tech industry for about 27 years now, and silicon valley for the last 11. In silicon valley, I've worked at multiple startups, as well as two 'FAANG' companies.

My comp has always been very good, and I've not detected even one little hint of 'ageism' at work. In fact, my career and current work environment has never been better.

“In Silicon Valley, it’s commonly believed that if you’re over the age of 35, you’re seen as over the hill,” said Fan, who touts himself as an expert in penile enhancement and Botox injections. “People here value the young for their passion and their ability to look at things in new ways."

These sentences cause my jaw to drop for several different reasons. Penile injections? Really?

I will say that keeping myself mentally 'fresh' in perspective and outlook takes real work, but that's just part of necessary continuing education.

In my career, I've generally targeted a 45 (on average) work week. A lot more is fine, from time to time. And I will say that I've seen quite a few of my co-workers who seemed to enjoy working way more hours than that. Some of them young, some of them older than me.

What matters at work is results.

What also matters to web sites is clicks and emotionally driven attention.

jelliclesfarm17• 7 years ago

Are you saying penile enhancement and size and performance doesn’t have an affect on males? Curious female minds want to know..

I have always wanted to objectify men. I struggle to choose between their looks or bank balance or penis size. That’s why men in the past wore cod pieces. I would like it back please..

sokoloff2• 7 years ago

If my penis ever makes an appearance in the workplace, something has gone terrifically wrong.

Diederich3• 7 years ago

Curious female minds want to know..

Well, my wife has been quite happy with my unmodified parts for 21 years now, so I don't really know one way or another. (:

justinzollars• 7 years ago

I’m going to call bull shit. Im old by sv standards (38) and the only things I worry about is the quality of my code and quality of my ideas.

nishantvyas• 7 years ago

"Daniel, who spoke on the condition that only his first name be published for fear of being outed as old.."

Daniel, I am no genius but if you are reading this, WashingtonPost story with your details hardly makes you anonymous.

- Daniel

- in his late 30s, but he’s 48 years old

- returned from a 10-day trip to Italy’s Amalfi Coast

- journeyed to a yoga retreat and juice cleanse in Bali

- ending a five-year marriage

- shedding 10 pounds of subcutaneous fat several years back

19965• 7 years ago

Based on my experience, the headline is right. The money I spent was dwarfed by the extra money I made afterwards. It is just my own experience, but I think it is a cool hack: look the part to get more money.

To give more details, after having studied skin care a bit with the help of google scholar and reddit, I came to the conclusion that wrinkles are multifactorial and due to: - facial fat depletion : https://www.patelplasticsurgery.com/uploads/5/2/8/8/52880409... - change in the collagen structure, with less elasticity, likely purely due to sun damage - gravity pulling the damaged tissue down

For facial fat depletion, there is fat transfer. For the effect of gravity, there is facelifts. Both work wonder.

For changes in the skin structure however, I have tried non fractional CO2 resurfacing, which is said to be much more effective than fraxel. But it did not give drastic results unlike the 2 others.

The article talks about RF microneedling. I wonder if someone here on HN tried, and could comment about the procedure.

I'm thinking about doing that myself next time I travel. Other alternatives are "vampire microneedling", where basically PRP is put on the skin then microneedling is done in the hope that some growth factors will seep though.

The reddit skincare community is wonderful - lots of crazy smart people digging article and testing on themselves, a genuine hacker spirit. I tried one of their suggestions that seemed crazy at the time: acetylsalycilic acid to reduce skin oilyness. It was so simple, so cheap, yet so efficient!

Now I am going to test a skin routine to fix my skin texture: niacin serum in the morning, then sunscreen, and retinol at night, then moisturizer.

It's fun to consider the body has a computer than you can upgrad with surgeries or hack with chemicals applied on the skin!

jelliclesfarm17• 7 years ago

PRP has good reviews. A friend tried it recently and said it actually started baby hair growth near hairline..so I guess it basically increases blood flow.. If I had some spare change laying around, I would invest in cosmetic start ups. Especially those that are non invasive. Ways to determine which procedure is best suited for each person. AI to customize treatments. Etc. Phone apps too esp with the really nifty cameras that come with smart phones these days.

Deceim ..a Canadian cosmetic company has affordable products and I am a fan of many their basic products altho some are pretty hard core. I won’t use anything with retinol for example. I work in the farm and under the sun. So I have to be careful. Maybe when I retire from farming.

I agree. Body hacking is true hacker spirit. I encourage people to experiment and hack away.

adamch2• 7 years ago

80% of male attractiveness comes down having a good haircut and clothes that fit you.

Assuming you're in SF and have a high-paying software job. Find a hair stylist in a mid-range salon who you can actually talk to, show them some pictures of haircuts you like, and let them find something that works. If you find a professional and are OK paying them a bit extra, you'll get good results.

As for "clothes that fit", I have a terrible eye for that, so when I go shopping I just ask a more stylish friend to come with me, or I just ask the shop assistants a lot of questions. Again, they're professionals. They know what works.

sitkack• 7 years ago

Physical attractiveness.

The majority comes from personality and being genuinely nice of which being interested in other people is the key.

Even w/o being a hole, most dudes in tech don’t ask questions about other people. Self centered man babies.

hadiz5• 7 years ago

Sure, but attractive people with shitty personalities have to lose things, whereas unattractive people with good personalities need to earn. And when there are many attractive people around, there isn't much left to earn.

hadiz5• 7 years ago

This advice is throttled around here. There is an implication to this: if you're bald, you're fucking screwed as a man. Attractiveness would not be achievable.

kthejoker22• 7 years ago

So ..

The Rock? Jason Statham? Oscar de la Renta? Tom Ford's receding hairline?

I mean, your point is just not taken. Plenty of men wear baldness well, and plenty of men with hair do not.

adamch2• 7 years ago

This is simply untrue. The great thing about being bald is you can never have a bad haircut. Bald men, like men with long hair, or women with really short hair, appeal more to some people and less to others. But there's definitely no need to conclude you're screwed.

Physical attractiveness also matters way less for men in general. Personality and lifestyle are much more important.

nkzednan• 7 years ago

Also check out https://www.reddit.com/r/malefashionadvice/ - post some photos in the daily questions thread to get feedback.

WWLink3• 7 years ago

Why's it always gotta be a haircut? Fuck haircuts!

BrianB• 7 years ago

Maybe some 15 years ago I had a job interview. It went well and I was asked to meet the co-founders at a downtown bar. Being dressed rather casually I asked if it was appropriate attire for the bar. I was told "Actually, one of the reasons I want to hire you is because you look like what I would expect a computer geek to look like." (I'm paraphrasing, it was a long time...)

iamcasen• 7 years ago

When I lived and worked in SF it was hilarious to me how rapidly the culture shifted. In only 6 years, it went from a lot of competent, interesting, varied personalities, to an army of chrome backpacks, folding bikes, and brown leather boots.

Due to the vast wealth flooding there from VC coffers, people drank the Koolaid and drank it fast. I've watched people change their whole personality over night as if they constantly have their finger on the changing winds of cult personality.

Needless to say I ran for the hills. Best of luck Bay Area, you'll always have a place in my heart.

WWLink3• 7 years ago

That sucks. I grew up in the bay area and haven't been around much in.. almost a decade. DANG WTF?!

Did it really change that much? lol.

cc23• 7 years ago

I wonder if this depends on what language you develop in. I've been working on C++ teams for the past few years, and I don't witness any age bias. If there is an age bias, it's against younger engineers, because usually older engineers are much better at C++. The classical image of a programmer is still highly respected on every team I've worked on.

Also, I am an ex division 1 wrestler, and pretty muscular, and I always felt my physique actually worked to my detriment in interviews; I take a lot of steps to not come off as a jock/meathead. I wear glasses to make myself look more like a programmer, than an athlete. Maybe there is a difference though between being in shape, and being a division 1 wrestler.

Or maybe this is mostly a west coast/silicon valley thing. I've been working out of NYC mostly. Regardless though, this article really does not resonate with my experience as a software engineer.

aaron6952• 7 years ago

I find it interesting we know your name matters but we don't hear much about changing it.

I know people from overseas for instance will pick a local name, but often it's not optimised, just something picked slightly at random.

It's also fully reversible.

In Silicon Valley, some men say cosmetic procedures are essential to a career

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