Microsoft cofounder Paul Allen tries again with patent megasuit

http://feeds.arstechnica.com/~r/arstechnica/index/~3/3yNGXNL3rSo/microsoft-cofounder-paul-allen-tries-again-with-patent-megasuit.ars

by blhack • 16 years ago

55 56 16 years ago

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blhack4• 16 years ago

These are some of the most absurdly vague patents I've ever heard. Very, very bad form.

tkeller4• 16 years ago

Have you actually read them? Read the claims? They're software patents, so plenty of folk will hate them just based on that... but they really are not poorly drafted patents.

blhack4• 16 years ago

No. As I am not a patent attorney and do not speak legalese, I had to concern myself with the abstract descriptions only. Have you? These appear to cover what is essentially the * symbol appearing over your "notifications" icon after a timeout on facebook, or the (1) appearing on twitter if you leave it idle for long enough and a new tweet appears in your stream.

Do you think that this is unique enough an idea that others should have to pay Paul Allen's company for the rights to use it? This was something that I was going to implement on thingist. Should I not do this because I would be infringing on a legitimate (legitimate in the spirit of patent law) bit of intellectual property?

This is why patent trolling is so damaging to the community. I'm not a lawyer, I have no idea. The best I can do is read the abstract of a patent (if I can even find it) and try not to step on anybody's toes. For somebody like me, a lowly 23 year old kid making side projects in his spare time and day-dreaming about someday moving to San Francisco and getting to hang out at the cool kids table, this stuff is terrifying. Paul Allen, a multi-billionaire with a fleet of private jets and private yachts and private submarines and private multi-million-dollar-per-year-retainer lawyers might SUE ME.

SO I have a couple of choices. I can implement what seems like a completely obvious feature and risk being sued by the largest Goliath in the industry, or I can follow the written law and not.

What should I do? What would you do?

joe_the_user• 16 years ago

So they're some of the best-drafted, absurdly vague patents out there?

EGreg3• 16 years ago

Even if they were not vague. Even if he described in intricate detail exactly how a newsfeed works, or a search engine works in 1990, say. And you look at the patent and go WOW, HE TOTALLY DESCRIBED WHAT GOOGLE DOES. If he didn't build any technology to implement it, if he didn't struggle with the development, with scaling, attracting users, building a market, then do you think it's fair for Google to just pay him for merely describing something to the US Patent Office and then keeping it secret? This hampers competition. This is not good.

It's not Paul Allen we should be complaining about. After all, the patent law makes Intellectual Ventures and Interval Licensing very good ideas as companies. Their business plan is exactly that -- describe some things, then wait a few years, and go litigate.

motters• 16 years ago

Whatever tech industry reputation Paul Allen may have previously enjoyed, he's really destroying it now.

S_A_P• 16 years ago

I guess he sees his fortune in MS stock declining over the next few years and needs a new revenue stream...

msg• 16 years ago

It's been flat for a decade, so why now?

The Seahawks are in trouble, so he's turning to other interests?

WildUtah• 16 years ago

Hey, the Seahawks are hosting a playoff game if they can top the Rams next week. Of course, they're still 6-9.

coderdude• 16 years ago

>>Also, Mueller said, "[s]hould Google be served an injunction as a result of Interval's suit, owners of Android phones would experience a very significant degradation of the user experience."

Well that sucks. It would be terrible if I had my phone's services greatly impaired so this guy can go through his little patent suit.

sp3323• 16 years ago

I think the point would be to use the threat of an injunction to get Google to settle for lots of money out-of-court.

berntb• 16 years ago

Anyone really believes this is not coordinated with Microsoft?

So the next phase will be when e.g. Wozniak put up a software patent company and sues Microsoft, Google and Nokia? And then some investors in Google will finance a patent troll company which...

Patent Armageddon, here we come. :-(

Devilboy2• 16 years ago

Patent Armageddon is a GOOD thing!

sorbus• 16 years ago

If you object to software patents, then it's a good thing - but only when it's over.

During Patent Armageddon, software is going to suck. There will be injunctions on the import and sale of all sorts of products (read: you won't be able to buy shiny new technology, or perhaps even old technology), technological progress will slow down, and being a start up will suck because it will be incredibly beneficial for companies to sue start-ups to build up precedent for their patents. (Note that if this doesn't happen - if there isn't an epic battle over patents - it isn't Armageddon, it's just an apocalypse, being the wide-spread revelation that software patents are horrible things).

Yes, there will be reform, probably large-scale reform. However, it won't come until things get rather bad.

CamperBob• 16 years ago

Patent Armageddon already happened, back in the days when radio technology was being developed at a pace that makes the software industry's progress look slow and boring.

The lawyers won, as usual. They'll win this time, too.

bretpiatt• 16 years ago

Putting my tinfoil hat on an Android injunction next year would do wonders to help Windows Phone 7 gain market share.

pierrefar3• 16 years ago

I did note that MS is not listed as one of the defendants.Odd as I'm sure a cursory look would find an infringement of some sort.

sp3323• 16 years ago

Allen has already got his money from Microsoft :-)

Athtar• 16 years ago

Even if MS did infringe on something, why would you sue the company you founded?

arvinjoar• 16 years ago

The man is dying, and he's really well off, what is he doing patent trolling?

fredoliveira• 16 years ago

He's certainly not the only one to profit from this particular move. There's other investors I'm sure. This is pretty sad, though.

y0ghur7_xxx• 16 years ago

If you mean he is dying from cancer, actually no, he is now free from cancer.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/297665

Devilboy2• 16 years ago

He strikes it rich with Microsoft, survives cancer and to repay the world he... turns to patent trolling.

EGreg3• 16 years ago

Paul Allen is taking advantage of the law. There is nothing really wrong with that. If you think the law is wrong, then let's work to try to change it. I personally find these intellectual property monopolies to be more menace than good. Especially the 17-year-long patents for SOFTWARE!

patrickaljord2• 16 years ago

> Paul Allen is taking advantage of the law. There is nothing really wrong with that.

Why? If a law is wrong, unfair or immoral, taking advantage of it is not right, it is actually wrong. That being said, it is legal, but being legal does not always imply rightness.

EGreg3• 16 years ago

Who says a law is wrong, unfair or immoral? Certainly not the legislators. Even if it is, taking advantage of the law might still not be unfair or immoral. If anything, it will highlight that the law needs to be changed.

extension• 16 years ago

While Apple's iTunes Store, App Store, and Apple TV are targeted in the lawsuit, iOS was notably not named as infringing Interval's patents.

Notification is an area in which iOS is conspicuously lagging behind Android. I wonder if this "peripheral attention" patent has something to do with that.

jws• 16 years ago

I hope he has all the success he did with "Paul Allen's Charter Communication™".

dansingerman• 16 years ago

I really hope what he is doing is deliberately launching a ridiculous large scale patent suit designed to fail on a massive scale that will undermine all future software patent suits, and therefore the whole software patent system.

If he is he's a hero.

If not he's a dick.

ez77• 16 years ago

I had a similar reaction. The good news is that, regardless of his true intentions, enough high-profile ridiculous suits like this will be the most powerful catalyst for severe reform.

jacquesm2• 16 years ago

> enough high-profile ridiculous suits like this will be the most powerful catalyst for severe reform.

The problem here is that as long as these suits are lost there is plenty of force behind those that say that 'the system works', so only if Paul Allen would actually win this suit would there be an incentive for such reform. There is no real penalty to bringing a suit like this (other than making a bunch of lawyers richer, but when you need 9 zeros before the comma to express your wealth that's no big deal).

guelo• 16 years ago

He should be using his money to launch a lobbying effort to eliminate software patents.

lotusleaf1987• 16 years ago

This is exactly what you do when you're a greedy scumbag.

meadhikari• 16 years ago

and this is how software patent ended. Is the best result we could expect from this.

jacquesm2• 16 years ago

Reputations take a lifetime to build and can be destroyed in a heartbeat. Paul Allen did a fantastic job of building his reputation, and barring a hidden agenda has done an equally impressive job of destroying it, not just with this 'retry' (abort or ignore?) but already with the first incarnation of it.

I'm hoping that there is a hidden side to this but I'm having a hard time dreaming up a scenario where this is not a 'win' for Paul Allen either way in retrospect ("I've done this to destroy the patent system" or "I just made a bunch of money"). Maybe he should state his goal? The worst case outcome for the rest of the world is that he wins this stupid suit, the best case outcome for the world is that he really is a greedy patent troll and triggers patent reform.

If he's doing it with that purpose then I'm all for it but since there is a chance that he will make a great deal of money from this I highly doubt it.

It's funny because over the years I lost patience with Microsoft, Gates and Ballmer with Paul Allen being the last hold-out in terms of being respectable. It's a pity to see that soiled in this way, apparently there is no such thing as 'enough' and abusing the system is just A-Ok.

gojomo• 16 years ago

Some tech zillionaires create private space programs… others create giant patent troll portfolios. Maybe the former can nuke the latter from orbit.

alexqgb• 16 years ago

At this stage, it's the only way to be sure.

alextgordon• 16 years ago

Patents are essentially a licence to write new laws. A list of millions of banned actions. The only difference is the people who write these new laws aren't elected, and the laws expire after 20 years. There is no way to tell if something is banned or not, except by getting sued.

I don't know how anyone thinks this is a good idea.

rdl• 16 years ago

If anyone settles with him, that company becomes the enemy as well.

mkramlich3• 16 years ago

Have zero in the bank: can't afford to be a patent troll.

Have a few million: can afford, might even make financial sense, assuming you are ok with it ethically.

Have a few billion: why be a patent troll? You have the world's biggest yacht -- do you need 1000 more?

Boggles my mind.

spicerunner• 16 years ago

The patent system needs an enema. Most of these are so broad it's like patenting water. Apple recently patented the 'slide to unlock' UI concept. If I'm not mistaken, the aliens in the Preditor movies had already established that as prior art and should probably go pay Apple's attorney's a visit.

Microsoft cofounder Paul Allen tries again with patent megasuit

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