India heatwave temperatures pass 50 Celsius

Btw, I was kind of impressed, when visiting India and speaking to a few locals, that they don't see climate change to be a real thing, or at least to be such a big problem, and much overrated. The claim was basically that it was always very warm, and it is just normal that way, and they don't expect it to become much warmer. I'm not sure if that is just anecdotal or if that is the major opinion by locals.

feiss• 7 years ago

Maybe

LASR• 7 years ago

It is now.

sametmax• 7 years ago

No but expected.

puranjay• 7 years ago

Last year, May was very benevolent with cool weather. June was absolutely brutal with temperatures close to 40C even at 8pm in the evening. All in Delhi.

This year, May has been brutal already and I dread to think what June has in store. This is coming after a very long and very cold winter.

fiblye• 7 years ago

In dry climates with such hot temperatures, staying hydrated and sweating will keep you cool (or rather, keep you cool enough to not die).

What happens when temperatures like these are reached in high humidity zones where sweat just sticks? Will we simply have entire communities that lack air conditioning dying off?

Tepix• 7 years ago

They will turn into refugees. That's part of why we expect hundreds of millions of climate refugees in the coming decades.

noir_lord5• 7 years ago

Yep I think mass migration is inevitable.

Given the absolute mess migration was out of Syria into Europe (and that was comparatively minor) I think it's going to be unpleasant.

Once it starts it'll snowball as well instead of an orderly evacuation it'll be pell-mell.

Sometimes think it would be nice to have a single rational world government so that we could deal with these things on a species level.

Of course if we had a single rational world government for any length of time we wouldn't be in this mess.

inflatableDodo10• 7 years ago

Been telling people for a while, if we think the amount of refugees from our wars is bad, just wait till you see the number arriving due to the fuel we burn.

Though given our reaction to the current wave of refugees, we will blame the refugees for their own predicament and probably George Soros, as is tradition, long before we accept any blame ourselves.

Eric_WVGG2• 7 years ago

The wall our president wants to build has nothing to do with current immigration trends. They’re banking on this future.

Steve Bannon has this book he’s always talking about, The Camp of the Saints. It’s the clearest and most concise guide for how they see the climate future rolling out. (This is also why I bristle when they get called climate change deniers. They’re not, they just reached different conclusions.)

https://observer.com/2018/05/the-insanity-of-alt-right-banno...

(Apologies, I know everyone wants to keep this a politics-light zone; this isn’t off topic.)

fouc• 7 years ago

That's 122 F in americanese.

yakubin• 7 years ago

And 323.15 Kelvin, and 581.67 Rankine.

narnianal2• 7 years ago

Why did nobody add the Vulkan or Klingon measurements yet?

Isinlor• 7 years ago

These temperatures in high humidity can be deadly even to healthy and fit humans as our bodies are left without a way to cool down. Currently, they have humidity around 10-20% so it affects the most vulnerable, but global warming may lead to making parts of the world literally deadly to every human being...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_temperature

The wet-bulb temperature (WBT) is the temperature read by a thermometer covered in water-soaked cloth (wet-bulb thermometer) over which air is passed.

Sustained wet-bulb temperature exceeding 35 °C (95 °F) is likely to be fatal even to fit and healthy people, unclothed in the shade next to a fan; at this temperature our bodies switch from shedding heat to the environment, to gaining heat from it.[8] Thus 35 °C (95 °F) is the threshold beyond which the body is no longer able to adequately cool itself. A study by NOAA from 2013 concluded that heat stress will reduce labor capacity considerably under current emissions scenarios.[9]

A 2010 study concluded that under a worst-case scenario for global warming with temperatures 12 °C (22 °F) higher than 2007, the wet-bulb temperature limit for humans could be exceeded around much of the world in future centuries.[10] A 2015 study concluded that parts of the globe could become uninhabitable.[11] An example of the threshold at which the human body is no longer able to cool itself and begins to overheat is a humidity level of 50% and a high heat of 46 °C (115 °F), as this would indicate a wet-bulb temperature of 35 °C (95 °F).

The 2015 Indian heat wave saw wet-bulb temperatures in Andhra Pradesh reach 30 °C (86 °F). A similar wet-bulb temperature was reached during the 1995 Chicago heat wave.

ramraj072• 7 years ago

What caused Chicago of all places to reach that temperature?

joezydeco• 7 years ago

Chicago regularly gets heat waves in that range, but moisture coming from the plains via heavy rains and/or agricultural crops contributes to the humidity levels which really are the killer.

A temperature inversion also happened that July, so no wind and pollution stagnated over the city.

gonzo41• 7 years ago

Thanks for posting this. It's something that's really hard to communicate about climate change to people. It's also super depressing. I went down with heat stroke once and I get know what this is like. I was in hospital for 4 days after a close brush with kidney failure. So many people just think it'll be just a bit hotter in the future.

theli0nheart• 7 years ago

Your comment includes footnote references but none of the footnotes themselves.

tryptophan• 7 years ago

I think its a copy paste from the linked wikipedia page, with links from there too.

jobigoud• 7 years ago

fatal even to fit and healthy people, unclothed in the shade next to a fan;

This is scary, what's a good way to survive for someone that doesn't have access to a bunker or AC? Immersing oneself in water in a bathtub?

wrong_variable• 7 years ago

Yes, the global poor living in high humid areas have always done that. So have Elephants and Hippos.

ajross2• 7 years ago

A tub will work, sure, as long as it's pulled from a large body of water that hasn't warmed up with the air. Hopping in the local lake is an obvious choice.

But in a detached demographic sense: effectively everyone lives in a city in the modern world, and while their housing might not be air conditioned most of the major buildings are. In an emergency like this everyone would just crowd into office buildings and shopping malls.

That's not to say this wouldn't be horrifying, but it's not the kind of existential social crisis people tend to imagine. Cooling ourselves down in a heat wave, in the modern world, is a solved problem at least as far as keeping ourselves alive goes.

myself2482• 7 years ago

The water is only cooler because it's evaporating, meaning the wet-bulb temperature also describes the water's own limit.

35°C is slightly cooler than body temperature, so it would work just a little bit as a heatsink, but another degree or two and even that becomes ineffective.

wongarsu9• 7 years ago

Large bodies of water, mine shafts or just holes in the ground. Just a few meters below the ground temperatures are effectively constant, barely effected by weather. Ocean temperatures are similiarly stable.

Of course you can't start digging while dying of heat stroke and you can't crowd people into any places (people are great space heaters). With education about proper measures a few days should be survivable for rural populations. In cities you just need air conditioning, there's no other viable way to cool large amounts of people.

phonypc• 7 years ago

I credit drinking copious amounts of ice water and frequent urination for helping me avoid hyperthermia for 10+ hours working in a kitchen where the air temperature read 52C + radiative heat from various equipment and high perceived humidity.

Granted I don't know the wet-bulb temp actually exceeded 35C

vishnugupta2• 7 years ago

I've experienced this heat wave in various degrees and in different situations (long distance cycling, shopping, trekking, etc.,) and places (Bangalore, Bombay, and Delhi).

The most effective preventive measure, in my experience, is to drink (~200ml of) mineral-filled water once every half an hour. The body's heat regulation mechanism works best when provided with sufficient amount of water. The problem only begins to manifest once the body water levels aren't good enough to dispose of heat as well as maintain blood circulation in which case the body prefers to give up heat regulation over fluid circulation.

Under normal circumstances, we are used to drinking water only when we get thirsty. Under extreme heat, however, by the time thirst signal kicks in it could be too late. I learned this the hard way during long-distance cycling. Since then I've followed cyclists' mantra of eat-before-hungry and drink-before-thirsty.

Another thing to keep in mind is to drink mineralized water (such as Gatorade, juices, tender coconut water, etc.,). When you sweat you also lose a lot of minerals so replenishing just water isn't good enough.

Most of the heat wave death in India doesn't occur in an urban setting as people have access to water within walking distance. It is the farmers who are in the most danger as a) They are directly exposed to sun b) They are engaged in strenuous physical activity. By the time they realize the danger they are in it'd be too late and they lose consciousness with no one around them to help out in vast agricultural fields.

amai2• 7 years ago

How are https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_temperature and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_index related?

freehunter• 7 years ago

They're two attempts to measure the same thing, but with different results. Heat index is measured assuming a human walking at 3mph in the shade and attempts to show how hot the air feels when you take into account the humidity (and associated lack of cooling from perspiration).

Wet-bulb is the measurement of the lowest possible temperature a human body can achieve under current ambient temperatures and humidity (taking into account current wind speed). Basically the air temperature minus the ability to cool yourself by sweating given the current wind speed.

They're both designed to show how hot the air feels to your body rather than just air temperature, just with different calculations and assumptions.

Shorel• 7 years ago

How long can we stay in a sauna before it is deadly?

elorant• 7 years ago

Most saunas have relatively low levels of humidity, between 20% and 30%. It's hard to keep high humidity levels when temperature rises. Other than that, it's generally suggested to not exceed 20 minutes in a sauna. Steam rooms on the other hand have higher humidity levels but lower temperature and it's not allowed to stay more than 15 minutes inside.

From personal experience I've never used a sauna for more than 10 minutes and I always carry a bottle of water with me inside.

Gibbon1• 7 years ago

I've been in some rooms that are kept at 120 degrees and 80% humidity. You can work for about an 45 minutes to an hour at most (Adult male). Working being monkeying with stuff in an electrical cabinet.

I think you'd be in serious trouble after 2-3 hours.

modzu• 7 years ago

here in my part of canada temperatures are regularly deadly, ie below 0°C. its a legitimate problem for homeless and otherwise vulnerable people.

while some parts of the world warm to become uninhabitable, others will warm to the opposite.

selimthegrim3• 7 years ago

Where is this? N Alberta?

jessriedel3• 7 years ago

The 50 C number was observed in a desert. Death Valley, California, also a desert, spend 5 consecutive days above 54 C in 1913, the year it set the temperature record of 56.7 C.

gingabriska2• 7 years ago

Actually it's also bad in densely populated areas where the bitumin starts melting and sticks to your car tyres and shoes.

I traveled there.

arnaudsm• 7 years ago

"The thermometer hit 50.6 degrees [...] in the Rajasthan desert city of Churu."

Churu has 120k inhabitants, you can call that a population center.

jessriedel3• 7 years ago

Thanks, you're right. Edited.

ramraj072• 7 years ago

Just as a note, you can put a pin in Any random location in India and it'll be 80% a village or town with a good amount of people living. A train ride through the nation in any non-national park route would show that you very rarelt see a stretch of land go more than a few miles without a couple houses.

inapis• 7 years ago

Nopes. Churu is a population center. It's a district headquarter. And population centers are not faraway from 50C at 46-47C being pretty frequent.

selimthegrim3• 7 years ago

Agreed. Jacobabad, Nawabshah, Guddu (where my mom grew up), Kashmore are all substantial cities in Sindh not too far away where the mercury usually gets this high in summer.

jessriedel3• 7 years ago

Yes, you're right. Edited.

hedora3• 7 years ago

For people that don’t know, Death Valley’s name is no exaggeration, even in modern times.

Going outside there even for short periods of time is extremely dangerous for some fraction of each year.

They shut the park down when this happens.

A few years ago, some tourists that didn’t heed the warning ended up dead after rental van overheated.

I don’t see how the populated areas already hitting comparable temperatures will be habitable at all in ten years.

leereeves2• 7 years ago

I don’t see how the populated areas already hitting comparable temperatures will be habitable at all in ten years.

Phoenix, AZ, where nearly 5 million people live, hit 50C in 1990 and has come close many times.

myself2482• 7 years ago

http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hun...

^ This absolutely riveted me. It's a long read, but mindblowing for someone who's accustomed to a much more hospitable place.

marktangotango2• 7 years ago

I was at NTC (south of Death Valley in the Mohave) one summer when the temp was 125-130F for a week. We were in the box the entire time. We used ice filled camel backs, sucking water all day (and rarely urinating) First sgt would bring out pallets of bagged ice that would be half melted by the time they got to us. As a side note; 125 feels cool after spending all day in, and then climbing out if a M1A1! Really odd thing was shivering at night when the temp dropped to 85-90. And urinating all day when it was only 100, but you were still drinking like it was 130.

newnewpdro4• 7 years ago

I don’t see how the populated areas already hitting comparable temperatures will be habitable at all in ten years.

California desert dwellers simply spend time indoors when it's too hot outside. They use energy-efficient swamp coolers currently in otherwise conventional above-grade homes. If those cease working because the desert air becomes persistently humid even when scorching hot (this strikes me as unlikely) I expect deep basements and underground earthdomes will become more common.

z3phyr4• 7 years ago

New Delhi, the capital, recorded 47 C. Its a population center is it not?

yantrams• 7 years ago

This has been the case almost every year this decade in India.

Also, it is quite common for the government departments to fudge data and report temperatures > 50 Celsius as 49.x to avoid halting work / paying extra to those working under the Sun because there are regulations concerning this.

Edit: I got to know about this practice being rampant through an activist in the South who is well versed with the labour laws.

harias• 7 years ago

regulations concerning this

Never heard of this. Do you have a source?

sn412• 7 years ago

I have never heard of this. In my experience, in central India, the district officials in many places are overactive in declaring daytime curfews when the temperature passes 45.

nonamechicken• 7 years ago

I am not sure if this is true. This is from my state (which is in South India) this year (March-April) when the temperature was in the 35-40 degrees range. Highest recorded was 42 degrees I think in a border district. I don't think South India crosses 40 most of the time. One place reached 47 in 2016 [3].

With mercury levels in Kerala rising this summer, the state’s Labour Department has issued an order allowing mandatory break time for labourers to avoid sunstroke. All labourers in the state who are exposed to sunlight which could potentially lead to a sunstroke have been ordered to rest indoors between 12 pm and 3 pm during the summer months.
“Those working in the morning shift will get a break from 12 pm to 3 pm. Their work timings have been fixed at 8 hours from 7 in the morning to 7 in the evening. For the other shifts which begin after morning and post noon will be rescheduled to end before 12 pm and begin after 3 pm,” read the order.
In 2018 too, the State Labour Department had issued a similar order to reschedule the shift timings of labourers during the months of February and April to avoid exposure to heat from 12 pm to 3 pm. [1]

[1] https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/kerala-govt-orders-man...

[2] https://english.manoramaonline.com/districts/thiruvananthapu...

[3] https://www.indiatoday.in/education-today/gk-current-affairs...

sateesh• 7 years ago

There are many places in South India where the temperature crosses 40 and above during months of Apr-May. For example see temperatures at these places in Karnataka, and AP. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raichur (avg. temperature of 45.0 C in May) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurnool (avg. temperature of 46.5 C in May)

rrrazdan• 7 years ago

Can you cite a source for this? This seems like an urban legend imported from Dubai or the UAE, where it may actually make sense. But I have never seen regulations or the 50 C mark being treated as some barometer of extreme heat in India.

AFascistWorld• 7 years ago

Imagine the ever-growing demand for ACs and the ever-decreasing amount of water.

Luckily for India, it has a long shoreline.

caymanjim3• 7 years ago

This sounds shocking to a lot of people, but it's not new or unexpected, and it's not even that uncomfortable if you have shade and water. I don't mean to downplay the risk to those who don't have shade or water, or who have to work exposed, but it's not as scary as you might think.

I lived in Tempe, AZ for years, and summer temperatures would regularly be over 45C/113F. I walked or biked four miles to work in that. There were a few days when it hit 50C/122F, and while you didn't want to be exposed to the sun for long, it was tolerable. Low humidity makes a huge difference in what you can put up with.

awakeasleep• 7 years ago

You're missing the effect of humidity.

Our bodies rely on evaporative cooling to reduce heat, which is why we sweat and why you need water.

When humidity is above 50% evaporative cooling stops working, so temperatures slightly above our body temperature become lethal.

bdcravens• 7 years ago

Low humidity makes a huge difference in what you can put up with.

caymanjim3• 7 years ago

Rajasthan is a desert. The city mentioned in the article, Churu, currently has a humidity of 11%. I mentioned Tempe because it's nearly an identical climate. I've spent time in Ajmer, India, which is pretty close to Churu. It was only about 45C/113F when I was there.

Obviously this is all anecdotal, but my anecdote here isn't off base.

mikhailfranco• 7 years ago

Agreed. Riyadh has daily maxima of >40C from May to October, and >45C June-August, peaking about 49C in a normal year. It has low humidity and a little altitude (700m), so it is rarely over 50C (shade), but is certainly over 50C in the city, on the street, in the sun.

It's relatively easy to walk or run up to 30 minutes on the commute, or after work, when temperatures are up to 43C, without carrying any water.

A few years ago, there was more danger from the religious police for wearing running shorts, than from the high temperatures.

enitihas2• 7 years ago

I think humidity is a big problem in a lot of places in India with high temperature. In my village in easter UP in India, summer was intolerable because of high humidity and shortage of electricity. (We used to have 8hours electricity per day, but sometimes outages would happen and would go unrepaired for week to month). It was impossible to do anything but take a hand fan and use it to cool yourself. A lot of the time thus went wasted in doing this completely un productive work.

Now that I live in a place with somewhat better weather and 24x7 electricity, I feel what a privilege it is. It pains me to see a large fraction of humanity has to spend a large portion of their time using a hand fan for survival.

aq3cn• 7 years ago

Now days, you can get 24x7 electricity in tier 1, 2 & 3 cities. I am not sure about villages. Our country is almost power surplus nation now.

enitihas2• 7 years ago

The amount of people living in tier 1,2,3 cities should still be less than people living in villages I think. Anyways my village still continues to get abysmal electricity.

eklavya• 7 years ago

That’s hard to believe, there are still power cuts (even if for 1-2 hours max) in summers.

wtmt2• 7 years ago

Get 24/7 electricity from what source? The state run power producers don’t provide this in many tier 2 cities (pick some names and check). I strongly doubt if all tier 1 cities (except probably Mumbai) get power 24/7 either.

Power is cut during summers, during rains, and at other times very regularly. There are plenty of reasons and excuses for that to be happening.

vishnugupta2• 7 years ago

Now days, you can get 24x7 electricity in tier 1, 2 & 3 cities

Bangalore (supposedly a tier-1 city) has regular power cuts throughout the year. Apartment residents don't notice this thanks to the diesel generator.

ing33k• 7 years ago

Not really. There are way too many power cuts in Bengaluru.

amai2• 7 years ago

Iran can top this easily:

"the temperature was 53.7 degrees Celsius, which is 128.7 degrees Fahrenheit"

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/weather/2017/06/29/129-degrees...

The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_index, which also takes humidity into account, hit an incredible 142 degrees.

piyushpr1342• 7 years ago

Well before you guys start doomsday predictions, let me tell you that Churu is in Rajasthan which is in Thar desert. Temperatures like this, even though very high and uncomfortable, are not unheard of.

We are in midst of a very hot summer but it is not something out of ordinary and yearly cycle (we don't love our summers). We are eagerly awaiting monsoon to arrive in India (early june is when it hits our shores). After rains arrive, we expect our dams to fill and possible water scarcity to end

wongarsu9• 7 years ago

We are in midst of a very hot summer

That's the problem. No matter what you think about climate change, summers are undeniably getting hotter. This might not be a doomsday, but it's something that will become more common and eventually will affect more populated areas.

piyushpr1342• 7 years ago

That I agree with you.

And I believe that climate change is real. Definitely summers are getting hotter, and winters are getting colder and extreme weather events more frequent. Just that it is not yet a doomsday scenario

z3phyr4• 7 years ago

I just recovered from a stroke in my own locality. Drink water every 15 minutes guys. It is very painful if you don't and a dreadful time.

perfunctory• 7 years ago

A slightly redacted version of my earlier post.

Dear HN crowd, it might not feel like it but we are quite influential. We are rich and therefore have a non-negligible command over economy. Silicon Valley is cool and people look up to us (do they? I don't really know, but wasn't Steve Jobs a national hero?) and may follow our example.

Please, take the lead. Here are a few things an hornorable member of the HN community can do

- Stop flying to conferences. Go to a local meetup. It's fun. And cheaper. If you really need to get out of town, take a train. Don't think about it as not flying for the rest of your life. Rather, can we declare a moratorium on conferences for like three years? Let's hope by then Prometheus will give us carbon-neutral jet fuel https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19842240

- Shift your investments from fossil to green. If you can't find enough worthy greens, shift it to anything else. Some say it won't impact your returns http://www.lse.ac.uk/GranthamInstitute/news/the-mythical-per.... Move your deposits and savings to a more sustainable bank. This might be one of the most underappreciated yet simple and powerful tools https://fairfinanceguide.org

- Work less. Work part time, and part of that part time remotely. Reduce your commute. If your boss won't let you, find a job that will. In the current job market you can negotiate almost anything, and remote work must be the easiest thing to negotiate. http://cepr.net/documents/publications/climate-change-worksh.... A firm lets its employees work four days a week while being paid for five. Everyone is happy, lower electricity bills, fewer cars on the road https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/world/asia/four-day-workw....

- Reduce your meat consumption as much as you can. I noticed that this one is quite controversial but I am mentioning it anyway. It's fine to not go fully vegan, but make meat a special treat, something you are looking forward to, not an everyday snack. They say these new vega burgers are not too bad. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/30/dining/climat....

mayankkaizen• 7 years ago

India has population of over 1.2 billion people. And major part of this population is vegetarian (at least in the sense that they don't eat meat on daily basis twice a day).

What if India were meat consuming nation just like US?

wtdata2• 7 years ago

India is the country with biggest population density in the planet (barring some micro nation), why does everyone keep giving India a pass for having absolutely no regard for sustainability and keep exploding their population by having way more children than those they could actually provide with a good life (if not environmentaly, at least economically) ?

Should we really expect the same level of life for the children of couples that had 2 children and were able to properly provide for then, and for children of couples that had 6 children when they couldn't even provide properly for 2?

narnianal2• 7 years ago

flagged for lack of cookie policy

why is it bad to state the reason for flagging something? alright, then I don't explain it in the future. np.

India heatwave temperatures pass 50 Celsius

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