I would never work for Jason Calacanis - There, I said it

http://marcgayle.com/i-would-never-work-for-jason-calacanis

by marcamillion • 16 years ago

79 114 16 years ago

maxklein2• 16 years ago

But he's very successful. Who's viewpoint are we supposed to champion here - the employee or the employer? Should we not be happy when an employer is successful and can get a lot from his employees with minimal expense? Does the process of building a startup not put us squarely in the side of the employer?

marcamillion20• 16 years ago

Max...he has made a bunch of money. I wouldn't say he is 'very successful'.

Show me the engineers fighting to go work for him.

I give Mahalo 3 - 5 years before shutting their doors.

Hopefully that will humble him a bit.

samd• 16 years ago

You are characterizing the relationship between employers and employees as zero-sum. Does that need to be the case? Should that be the case?

ahi2• 16 years ago

Depends on your definition of successful. I don't consider him particularly successful.

thirdstation• 16 years ago

"Does the process of building a startup not put us squarely in the side of the employer?"

I guess that depends on your motivation. Being your own boss is one reason to launch a startup.

But, being a boss doesn't give you the right to impose your value system on your employees.

heliodor• 16 years ago

in my mind, success is not primarily measured in money. happiness is much more important. it's a broader representation of life's needs, including money. also, success is not a zero-sum game. on the contrary, a lot of the more successful startups treat their employees better than average.

neworbit2• 16 years ago

This is a general question and not specifically to you: how successful is he? I have him mentally associated with netscape.com and a bad digg clone, and some time on the VC side of the table - so for people like me who don't know the background there, what did he do entrepreneurially and how well did he do for himself and his investors?

jasonmcalacanis18• 16 years ago

Actually, in startups everyone is aligned in their interest due to stock options. Anyone who looks at it as employer/employee just doesn't get the startup dynamic. As an investor in 20 startups I'm constantly pushing to give more stock options to employees, and as the founder of three companies with over 100 f/t employees and 250 part-time folks, I'm constantly pushing to increase stock compensation over cash comp. Why

maxklein2• 16 years ago

Why what? Don't leave with that cliffhanger!?

iphoneedbot3• 16 years ago

its not necessarily true that increasing stock-options to employees align their collective interest. for a startup; it only really works if everyone has close to equal shares

Its sorta like paying disney employees with disney-bux for their bonuses.

praptak• 16 years ago

Also, sky is blue. Check http://www.bnet.com/blog/entry-level/jason-calacanis-gen-y-j...

Says Calacanis: "... the majority of Gen Y seem to operating under the bizarre rallying cry of: More money! Less responsibility! Shorter hours! No stress! More freedom! It’s all about me!"

Yeah, shame on the employees for wanting better job conditions and admitting they actually care about own interest.

alnayyir5• 16 years ago

Rational self-interest is a right afforded only to the C-level executives, landlords, and entrepreneurs of the world apparently.

marcamillion20• 16 years ago

Jason wonders why people 'job hop' at Mahalo. Are you kidding me right now?

alnayyir5• 16 years ago

Oh man, don't get me started on that job-hoppers fiasco from a couple/few months ago.

That thread put people into hysterics.

You had people rallying behind the opposing flags of "work like damn dirty apes and love us for it!" and "we want our paternity leave and paid vacation!".

Blood was spilt. :(

jasonmcalacanis18• 16 years ago

Actually, we haven't had any (volentary) turnover in about a year. Ever since we did our "culture document" and started hiring based on it, we've had an almost flawless hiring process. I'm going to write a newsletter on building a culture document, so you might want to signup for my newsletter at www.jasonnation.com.

jasonmcalacanis18• 16 years ago

Not exactly my point.

a) We have amazing job conditions: organic food cooked all day by our chefs, laundry service, car washing, personal trainers, unlimited monitors, killer espresso machine, developer-driven product design, etc.

b) My point is it is fine to care about your own interests--but not more than the mission and success of the company. There is no 'i' in team, and you either succeed as a team or you fail as a team.

That's the reality of startups, so the players who are concerned with their stat line are not the players you want on your team.

About 2/3rds of the Gen Y folks I meet at thinking of themselves first and the company 2nd or 3rd--if at all in some cases.The other 1/3rd are hard working, dedicated and have a sense of Giri.

marcamillion20• 16 years ago

Jason, I have a theory, based on what I view as the most optimal way that labor markets work.

Based on the system that we live in, everybody tends to benefit, when (in aggregate) everybody looks out for their self-interest. If they are not allowed to, there are distortions which actually impairs the benefits to both parties.

For instance, if employees look out for their own self-interest, they will do everything to get the best benefits. Likewise, if the company looks out for its own self-interest, it will aggressively try to attract the best talent. By doing that, they force existing employees to look out for their own self-interest by being the best they can be (i.e. as good as, or better than, incoming employees). Also, when companies aggressively try to attract the best talent, they tend to do things like listen to what the talents want and employ those things (more paid sick time, cafeterias, the best development machines, reasonable working hours, etc.).

When employees are the best they can be, and their employer is not doing everything they can to retain them, they can leave. That forces the employer to become better at retaining employees - which forces other employers to do the same and creates a perpetuating cycle.

So when a company undermines that, by for instance cancelling sick leave, or forcing 80-hour work weeks into perpetuity, the short term effects are that employees will leave (if they are the best they can be at what they do, which we can assume they are otherwise they wouldn't be at the company) to greener pastures and if the company self corrects, they will once again attract and retain the best talent. If they don't self-correct, they will die. Perhaps a slow, long, death. Or just exist in limbo with lots of D class employees providing mediocre service.

We see this phenomena playing itself out in the Valley now between Google and Facebook. But it's not new. Before it was Yahoo and Google, Google and Microsoft, Microsoft and IBM, Apple and Microsoft, etc.

That's one of the reasons that I think that unions are a bad idea - because they distort this mechanism and allow employees to get lazy and not make sure they are the best at what they do (or add significant value in some other way).

Based on my theory, I think you are missing the idea. Forcing your employees to live through hell, but spraying their face with mist every now and then (with chefs, and laundry service - which were, quite ironically, forced on you by your other successful competitors) and telling them they are cool, doesn't make hell any cooler. At the end of the day, it's still hell. And they know it.

I don't believe that you would have a chef, laundry service, car washing, etc. if Google, Facebook, et al. didn't have similar services and you weren't competing with them. That, however, is just based on what I have deduced from public statements that you have made - so that could be wrong.

rexreed• 16 years ago

Am I the only person that read a) and thought "who cares?" I've been an entrepreneur for almost 2 decades, and none of that stuff really mattered to me. Give me crap food, old clothes, beat up equipment, and an exciting project to work on and I'll be fine. Yeah, Swedish masseuses would be nice, but I don't understand how that can make up for a tough work environment. People are motivated by what they're working on, not the stuff around the edges that dresses it up.

anthonycerra2• 16 years ago

I stopped watching TWiST for a while and almost unsubscribed from his newsletter because the Arrington drama was very Jersey Shore - minus the fake boobs.

Despite his personality flaws, which we all have, the guy gives incredible advice that is actionable. And he does it consistently.

Most popular speakers that we admire give far less valuable advice. The usefulness of "Be passionate, do less" pales in comparison to "Be consistent, plan out segments, publish on the same day at the same time".

marcamillion20• 16 years ago

Anthony...I have to agree with you that he gives a lot of great actionable advice. Sometimes, he also spouts something of value (e.g. warning startups not to build their company on top of Facebook).

But he goes off on so many topics and said such crap some times, that it fully discounts all the great stuff he has said.

This is one of those things.

Besides, he doesn't just have 'personality' flaws. He seems to be such a genuine dick. Not the good type that produces insane quality stuff (a la Steve Jobs). The type that have gotten lucky, and think they are God's gift to everybody else, and are yet to keep producing. The fiasco surrounding him berating a now ex-exmployee and his falling out with Arrington and TechCrunch do nothing but confirm the prick that I think he is.

Time will tell how he fares.

If I were looking for Angel money, I would never take money from him either.

Can you imagine someone like that having leverage over you in any shape or form? Either a boss or an investor? Hell no!

anthonycerra2• 16 years ago

I agree that I wouldn't want him to have leverage over my business - no argument there.

But I wouldn't excuse Jobs, or anyone else, of having that kind of personality because it does trickle down into the business. Apple makes incredible products, but their customer support is miserable. I think it's so bad because the culture has become "We know better". That comes from the top.

matchesmalone• 16 years ago

Well, Arrington has his own problems, and I wouldn't take that as an example of Jason's dickdom.

birken• 16 years ago

You also just wrote a story about Jason Calacanis... The only thing you forgot to do was link to Mahalo.

You might not want to work for him, but you should at least respect his shtick is genius and very effective at getting coverage and links, which works nicely since his company is an SEO play.

marcamillion20• 16 years ago

Birken, he is a lightning rod for sure. But controversy isn't always good.

Just ask Mike Tyson.

FiddlerClamp• 16 years ago

But does DecorMyEyes agree?

jasonmcalacanis18• 16 years ago

Thank you God!!!please include the following links when link-baiting me OR I WILL NOT tweet you back or link to you from my high page-rank blog: www.mahalo.com www.calacanis.com www.launch.is www.openangelforum.com

aresant• 16 years ago

I can't help but post the perfect "villain" picture of Calacanis to accompany this story:

[edit working link]: http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT7wjPbXig0o_I76bh4g...

ahi2• 16 years ago

That link doesn't seem to be working so either this one:

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRw83HRP_QZgcqkBkSLU...

or this one:

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT7wjPbXig0o_I76bh4g...

sudont• 16 years ago

It's actually blocking based on the referrer.

jasonmcalacanis18• 16 years ago

I love that photo.

prs• 16 years ago

Surely there has been lots of debate about his statements in the past. Rather than spending time on his polarizing way of gaining attention, the best solution is to let him do business his way and channel our energies into more productive directions. The last time I checked, no one is forced to work for Jason.

On a minor side note: Am I the only one to notice that he seems to move quite a lot with his body during the interview?

Clarity1992• 16 years ago

Yeah, I found the swaying funny too. Seemed like maybe he needed the loo the entire interview :)

jasonmcalacanis18• 16 years ago

ding! ding! ding! why waste the time hating on me

jammons4• 16 years ago

Yeah, as an employee at Mahalo, I can confirm that no one is being forced to work here.

marcamillion20• 16 years ago

Lol Jammons. Don't mean to call you out on that...but it's ironic that the positive comment you could muster was that 'no one is being forced to work here'.

btipling• 16 years ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmWiYx3qL2U&feature=playe... Is when the relevant part starts.

Some of the words he uses like 'lame' and 'weak' kind of is dickish, but I don't think it's that crazy.

dasil0032• 16 years ago

Neither would I, but does that mean he has a hiring problem? His advice is not necessarily bad advice for a business. Granted, he'll never create a great product, but neither will most businesses. If he can drive people to turn a profit that way, then he'll be doing better than most entrepreneurs. Wanting people who are willing to work 80 hours a week is probably one of the less ethically questionable things in his business plan.

marcamillion20• 16 years ago

dasil...I agree with you. If he was just a 'regular' entrepreneur...but by his own words he is a "Great CEO", and an "abnormal" worker.

So he thinks he is creating the next Google.

God help us if he is not wrong.

strlen2• 16 years ago

False dichotomy: either it's working eighty hours a week or working nine to five.

It's true that employees in a startup should be flexible: being willing to work late some days, work from home in an emergency, travel with a laptop (in return, startups are also more flexible: no one cares that you're not in your desk at 0930 or if you're working from home or a cafe).

However, eighty hour weeks usually happen for very specific reasons and are followed by less intense periods: it's not a generally applicable way of doing more with less. If you want to do more with less, hire better people (who frequently have other options available to them and won't work on a team that demands eight hour weeks as a matter of routine).

dasil0032• 16 years ago

Absolutely true. And if Calacanis meant people who are passionate enough about what they are working on to pull some late nighters when necessary, vs someone who punches the clock every day at 5pm and says "that's not in my job description", then he would find a lot more people in agreement.

p206• 16 years ago

This is more a comment on the video interview than the marcgayle.com post. I don't think Mr Calacanis' statements are incendiary. He explains eloquently what kind of people and attitude he is looking for, and doesn't seem to have a problem with people that don't match his requirements. I really don't see the problem with that.

marcamillion20• 16 years ago

I never said they were incendiary. I was simply pointing out that I would never want to have anything to do with him.

I wouldn't work for him. I wouldn't want him investing in my company. I would never partner with him.

There is no business relationship, that I can think of, that I would do with him.

But that's just my preference :)

jasonmcalacanis18• 16 years ago

sir, please don't introduce a fair and logical argument to a bash-Calacanis-on-HN thread or we will vote you down!

dangrossman• 16 years ago

I really need to write a filter to keep him off my screen, since just about everything Jason writes or says ends up getting me a bit riled. Just yesterday he sent out an e-mail saying that if you can't drop $10,000 on a premium domain name for your unfunded startup, you're not worth investing in... and proves how easy it is by listing the $133,000 he's spent on domains himself.

jasonmcalacanis18• 16 years ago

Actually, I would re-read the post.

I say clearly that you can start with a good domain that might cost only $10 to $2,000 and THEN use your VC/angel money to upgrade the domain later (like delicious did, for example).

$133k on domain names is insignificant. Don't be impressed by it... CNET owns $20M in domains, AOL owns $50m in domain names and there are many individuals who own millions.

My point in listing the domains I've gotten and how much I've spent for them is that it is a) not that expensive compared to the value they provide and b) that I've got some experience in this space and you might want to listen and read what I'm saying.

Please go back and a) re-read the piece and b) don't be so obsessed with big number.

jcal

http://launch.is/blog/2010/12/3/how-to-name-your-startup-and...

lenley• 16 years ago

You are missing the most mysterious domainer of all time. Google "Yun Ye"

dedward• 16 years ago

Why would one post something like this publicly? Don't burn your bridges and all that.

I swear, sometimes it seems like HN lives in this weird alternate universe where the rules of normal jobs don't apply....

It's fine if people want more money for less hours and less responsibility - but they'll be competing with those who are willing to work more hours and take on more responsibility for more money. If you were the employer, who would you hire?

marcamillion20• 16 years ago

I had been debating on whether or not I should post this, for this very reason.

However, I think it speaks more volumes about me and who I want to work with, if I do.

I might not be as rich as Jason Calacanis just yet, but I do have beliefs.

Why should Jason be able to say anything he wants, and not be publicly criticized for them?

If he doesn't want to do business with me, then that's fine by me.

If someone doesn't want to do business with me because I said I would never work for him, or do business with him, then that tells me more about that person - than it does me.

roschdal• 16 years ago

Q: "How would you describe your management style, because you have a pretty unique management style?"

Jason Calacanis: "Yeah, I would say I like people to be able to keep up with me. Uuuhm. And I don't get tired - I have only experienced being tired a couple of times in my life, it's typically from running the marathon and so I need people who are indefatigable, people who have pretty high stamina. I need people who are intense. I need people who can perform at a high level on a pretty regular basis. And I need people who are able to engage in debate. And so I need pretty strong people. I decided I am not going to work for people who are weak and who are maybe looking for balance in their lives. I do view doing a startup company like an Olympic sport. You have to qualify for it. If you don't qualify for it, then you can't be on the team. And if all of a sudden you get slower, and can't keep up, then you have to leave the team, and be replaced by somebody who can. And if you have a team of people who are all Olympic caliber, and who all are running very fast, it doesn't feel like everybody is running fast, it's just how we run, we are fast runners, or hard runners. And you just have to hire the right people. So I think I'm intolerant of average people. I am infuriated by people who make excuses. And so depending on who comes to work for me, and if you interview 100 people who have worked for me, if the person was ambitious and hard-working, they would tell you that it's the best experience of their lives, and that they learned more working for me, got more opportunity, tripled their salary. I have had people literally come in, work for me, 30 or 40 thousand dollars out of school, and then two or three years later would be making 100 thousand dollars. That's my value proposition. If you come work for me, you are going to work very hard, not harder than I do, maybe equal, but no harder than I expect of myself. But you will learn everything, and I will teach you everything I know. Calacanis MBA in 3 or 4 years. And if you do, then I will get you a job anywhere you want to work. If you have done 3 or 4 years for me, I will invest in your company if you come up with a good idea. I will come on your board, if you come up with a good idea. I will introduce you to anybody I know, give you recommendation and support you in any way I can. Take the other half of people, who maybe I've fought with, or fired. or they quit, they tended to be people who were lame, not hard-working, looking for balance, not intense, not winners, not looking to succeed, and they would say "Well, I'm just a normal person". I would say: "Correct, you are a normal person. I am an abnormal person. You normal person came to work for an abnormal person. I have abnormal expectations, that are high. You have normal expectations." It's nothing wrong with that, but that person should have gone to work at the post office, or Starbucks, or IBM, or whatever place where average people can exist without having some insane maniac like me say: "Why didn't you figure this out? Why didn't you work harder? Why did you make all these mistakes?" At a big company, no one would ever confront them. They would just hide under their desk, and maybe 9 months later somebody would say: "What do you do here? Oh cool." And for people who just want to duck down and disappear, there are plenty of jobs out there. I don't want those. I want samurai. People who come in and fight, and cut arms off and crash through stuff. If there is a barrier and a problem, I want people who can just hack their way through it, and not stop until they are dead or they have killed whatever is in front of them. And that is a different philosophy than maybe most people have about business."

hugh34• 16 years ago

Wow. Okay. I've read people complaining about this Calcanis guy a whole lot and never understood why. To me it was just a name, I never really knew precisely what he had done or what he was doing now, and I'm still not sure what this Mahalo thing does if it's not a shoe company.

Anyway, now I understand. He's a jerk. Not some kind of unique and interesting jerk, fascinating in his jerkiness, but just a regular garden-variety jerk. I know those guys. They exist all over academia.

iphoneedbot3• 16 years ago

Well to be fair, it is his company. jerk or not; you cant hate on the guy for running his business the way he wants to.

btw,

"Not some kind of unique and interesting jerk, fascinating in his jerkiness, but just a regular garden-variety jerk. I know those guys. "

I think that deserves to be on a tshirt or something

verysimple2• 16 years ago

I can very well imagine Calacanis in the shores of Africa 400 years ago giving the same speech.

mh_• 16 years ago

I know it's fashionable to hate Calacanis, but must confess to not finding too much wrong with the paragraph. I have worked with quite a few people who wondered "is my name in lights yet?", while wanting work/life balance at the same time. My personal thought on it was: "we are trying to make a dent in the world, and it takes something extra, and you have to really want it, cause it's hard (and tiring), and if you would rather have work/life balance now, then maybe another job would be better".

hugh34• 16 years ago

It's not the gist of what he says that's unreasonable, it's the details and the phrasing which reveal a lot about the dude's personality.

It's the self-obsession inherent in the way he keeps referring to his own (self-perceived) good qualities as the ideals to which others should try to live up to.

It's the pointless bragging. "Oh, I've only been tired a few times in my life, usually after a marathon". Cool story, bro!

It's the way he gives the impression that the only thing he seems to value in his employees is how much they're willing to kill themselves for the sake of the company.

Above all, it's this apparent feeling of entitlement that he deserves to have the best people in the world working for him. This might be justified if he'd sold his last two companies for ten billion dollars a piece and made all his employees rich. But according to wikipedia he's sold one company for the $30 million range; presumably enough to make the founders rich but only to give a modest payoff to the employees. If the best he can say is that some of his employees make $100K after getting $30K for the first few years (compared to a big company where they'd instead make $100K after getting $75K for the first few years...) then I'm really not sure where this sense of entitlement is coming from.

jasonmcalacanis18• 16 years ago

ding, ding, ding!

alnayyir5• 16 years ago

> I have only experienced being tired a couple of times in my life

I would love to impart my congenitally low blood sugar to him so that he can know what it's like to have to battle chronic fatigue 24/7 with diet and exercise just so you can function and not feel depressed all the time.

Managing that is probably 50-75% of my personal effort in being a productive programmer.

neworbit2• 16 years ago

With the caveat that Mike Arrington is not an objective third party as regards Jason these days, I recall him mentioning that Calacanis was regularly taking modafinil so as to not need sleep. c.f. http://techcrunch.com/2010/11/03/at-my-wits-end-jason-calaca...

I realize this may result in "I don't get tired" but for my two cents, chemical augmentation isn't really the same thing.

Or maybe that's a more accurate description of Olympic athletes than I'd like to admit.

phlux3• 16 years ago

So.... what if I already make more than 100K? Is he going to bring his value proposition and triple my salary?

badwetter• 16 years ago

Interesting; next time please put some paragraphs breaks in to make it easier to read. ;)

verysimple2• 16 years ago

You clearly aren't knocking him. lol.

marcamillion20• 16 years ago

The truth is, I didn't intend to.

But the more I thought about him, and wrote the post and started commenting here...the more difficult it is for me to find something positive to say.

alain94040• 16 years ago

I flagged this post because it provides no information. If you were an ex-employee of Jason, then your viewpoint could be interesting.

As it is, this is an attack based on a video interview. You have never even met the person and have zero first-hand knowledge.

uurayan• 16 years ago

The irony of this post is that Jason would most definitely not want you in his company.

In a startup, which his companies are, there really is no room for people want normal jobs and want to work normal hours. Startup life is a very fast paced constant swim upstream. You're trying to cram years worth of work into months to create enormous value as quickly as possible. ALL startups want "rockstar" employees as they help this process exponentially. What he's stating is not really anything different than any other start up founder would say he/she wants, its just he says it in a very inflammatory way.

iamgoat• 16 years ago

His company is over 3 years old. It is no longer a startup.

marcamillion20• 16 years ago

Firstly, how do you know he would never want me? I consider myself the perfect startup employee.

I actually have worked for one startup before and am doing my own right now.

I know about long nights, tight deadlines, and no money.

I know about creativity due to constraints and responding quickly.

I also know about abusive bosses and unproductive labor practices.

I would be hard pressed to find ANY software developer that agrees that they perform best under a boss like Jason.

jasonmcalacanis18• 16 years ago

Well, I don't know you Marc, so until you come in for an coffee I can't make a decision on your hire-ability.

Pros: you know how to get attention for yourself by using the classic Calacanis-HN link-baiting technique; you're not afraid to mix it up in the comments.

Cons: you seem like a whinny, entitled kid--I'm guessing you complain about a bunch of tiny things and you'll probably be a rice picker and not a samurai due to this; your writing is weak, and doesn't show much logical.

Of course, these are superficial judgements.... come to Mahalo for launch next time you're in Santa Monica, meet the team, see what we're doing and then write another blog post....

or maybe that would take actual effort as opposed to just firing off a blog post slamming someone you don't know

mikerhoads• 16 years ago

I worked for him for the first 2.5 years of Mahalo. I got hired right after dropping out of college. During my time there I was promoted twice, got to spend 3 months paid to live over seas and went to a party at the playboy mansion.

Say what you will about him or his style but my experience was was a net positive and if you turn the clock back and I'd do it again.

jasonmcalacanis18• 16 years ago

Watching you go from drop out to samurai/killer/jedi has been thrilling. Some day you'll start your own company, present at the Open Angel Forum and launch at the LAUNCH conference (www.launch.is), and I'll be lucky enough to invest!!! Keep rocking Mike!

plnewman• 16 years ago

"Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking Jason personally, I just think his work values are wack. Correction, I think his values (or those that I can see by his public persona) are wack."

Sounds like he actually is knocking him.

dshankar• 16 years ago

I don't know Jason Calacanis, his personality or anything. His "I'm never tired, keep up with me" is.... odd to say the least.

Nevertheless, I do agree with his "I want to surround myself with people who can work at my pace, work 80 hours a week not caring about life balance." Maybe not at a large company, but at an early stage startup I WANT people around me who are working hard and determined to make their product successful because they care about it.

What's so bad about what Calacanis said? 70-80 hour weeks are not unheard of in the startup world...

hugh34• 16 years ago

If you're gonna expect me to work eighty hours a week, there'd better be a seriously large payoff. In particular, it'd have to be much more than twice what I could get by working forty hours a week; it'd have to be at least four times as much.

I don't get the impression that he's offering that much extra value to his employees.

jasonmcalacanis18• 16 years ago

Please don't introduce a fair and logical argument in this thread or you will be voted down by the SEOs who have 20 astroturf accounts designed to slam me.

marcamillion20• 16 years ago

Jason, I think you need to get over yourself.

When you say the types of things you say, and behave the way you do, the internet will react in a very predictable fashion.

It's nothing personal. It's a reality that I think you need to accept, and it's clear that you haven't because you still say things like 'keep hating on me...I love it'.

You don't. You are just saying that.

Saying things like that, makes you look like the kid on the playground that bullies everybody and when one day he gets kicked in the balls pretends like it doesn't hurt and goes above and beyond to show that it didn't hurt, but goes behind the locker and cries.

Not cool.

gobongo• 16 years ago

The only evidence of SEOing I see in this thread so far is your 4 completely unsubtle mentions of dubdubdub launch is.

randall• 16 years ago

So being one of the few people in this thread that has worked with Jason, I wanted to chime in for a second.

Jason is totally demanding and pushes everyone around him to their limits. Yes. True.

But, underneath all the bulldog, seriously the guy has a heart of gold. Sometimes he doesn't show it, and even he'd admit some level of narcissism, but from personal experience, I can fully say that working with Jason changed my career for the better in every way.

I originally worked with Jason at Weblogs, Inc., and as we were acquired by AOL, worked with him on the relaunch of Netscape. I went through a personal tragedy during the launch of the site, and Jason / the team were instrumental in me coming out of that with my wits about me.

To be clear: Jason is hard to work with. He does joust publicly, which I would attribute to his form of marketing.

I have absolutely no inside knowledge of his actual tactics, but my guess is he takes on someone who he knows people don't like, then points out their flaws over time, figuring eventually he'll come out on top since his side of the story looks so rosy by comparison. Oh, and he does this by being fairly hyperbolic. (Mainstream media, junkets in journalism, Gawker, Pay-to-play angels, SEOs, off the top of my head.)

That all aside, I think working with Jason set me up to have a wide-eyed view of startups. I treasured the experience, and while I think everyone should evaluate their personal limits carefully before embarking on a career with someone who will literally push all of them, I don't think anyone who's worked with him has regret the time they spent with Jason. That doesn't mean all of them want to work with him again... but I heartily encourage anyone who wants to be pushed to work with him. It will be a hugely rewarding experience professionally. It was for me, anyway.

jasonmcalacanis18• 16 years ago

It was a blast to watch you grow from an outsider in the industry with some raw skills, into an in-demand Jedi Randall! Continued success and I can't wait until you start your own company and pitch at the Open Angel Forum!

marcamillion20• 16 years ago

Randall...well said. I don't doubt that Jason has a 'heart of gold'. I tend to find that people that are extremely passionate about things, do/say incendiary things that tend to attract attention (both good and bad).

I respect him for having the balls to say what he really thinks. Not many people do. However, I don't believe that he really believes everything he says. I think he has reached the point where he realizes the pay off (lots of attention), that it becomes naturally for everything he says to come out like that.

I am sure that many people would be pushed, but you can push people (and get the most out of them) without being a tyrant.

For instance, I played the violin for many years (save the 'he is a pussy for playing the violin' comments...kthnxbi) and had several teachers. I had a mix...some that were clearly doing it for just a paycheck (not pushing me enough), others that pushed me tyranically (a la Calacanis style) that I rebelled against and didn't perform like I knew I could, and my last one that was absolutely amazing at pushing me to leaps and bounds in a much shorter time than I had ever thought I could reach. So much so, that even though I spent an aggregate of 6 or 7 years with the first 2 or 3 and only progressed let's say '2 or 3' levels, with the last, in the space of 2 years, I progressed 6 or 7 levels and actually became a teacher myself - learning those same techniques of learning how people learn and how to get the best out of each individual and pushing them to achieve their best using a mechanism that will work with them.

So I say that to say, that every manager/leader wants the best out of their people. Some take a blanket approach (like Jason seems to have done) that, in my opinion, don't work in the long-run and in aggregate...and more importantly would never work for me. Hence the reason for my blog post.

HectorRamos2• 16 years ago

I wouldn't want anyone who doesn't want to work for Jason Calacanis, working for me, either.

We're small and we need to crush it, or die trying. Weak people can go work for a big corporation and be comfy.

daimyoyo• 16 years ago

There seems to be a theme here. "Jason is a jerk because he's overly confident and brags and expects people to work hard." So? That's the exact type of person who should be running a startup. When you're facing long odds against you, only someone who's completely confident in themselves and their idea will get over the hurdle. Frankly there's almost nothing worse than working for a meek, type-b manager who doesn't have a clear vision. Believe me, I've done it. As a side note: I'd work for Jason in a heartbeat, work as many hours as necessary and do whatever I could to help his company succeed. And I'd relocate to LA tomorrow if there was a spot for me. Because working there is worth more than the money you'd make. After you invest your time with him he'll invest with you. He said as much in the video. Will your boss do that?

jasonmcalacanis18• 16 years ago

Come by Mahalo for a tour any time! jason AT mahalo.com to set it up!

alexlmiller• 16 years ago

Chiming in one more voice from someone who has worked for Jason: Yes, it's a grind, but he is completely up front about what you're getting yourself into (and if its not something you're interested in, I'd suggest avoiding it). However, if it is something you vibe on, it's overall an amazing experience that gives you many X the experience as you would in most other jobs. There was some hard stuff to deal with, but don't regret my decision to go work for him at all and would absolutely do it again given the chance.

jasonmcalacanis18• 16 years ago

Alex, Man do I wish I could have kept you for three years!!! You're a true Jedi and I can't wait until you start your own company... please make sure you save some room for me as an angel investor!!! :-)

marcamillion20• 16 years ago

Alex...the problem I have with his shtick, is not that he gives you upfront what you will get. Or that he is abrasive.

It is this notion that, if you like the way he leads, then you are the best. If you don't, then you are 'normal'. i.e. bad, and you don't what to succeed.

That's a false dichotomy and it's highly annoying to hear him re-iterate many, many times.

If he just said, working for me is hell. But, you will get these benefits (all of which might be very valuable in their own right - I am not degrading the quality of his network, and his ability to convince other angels to invest in your next venture).

It's just this 'I am better than everyone' aura that he espouses - in public anyway.

And as I said in my post, I don't think he has earned the right to be like that.

Steve Jobs has. Bill Gates has. Bezos has. Larry & Sergey have. But I am yet to see any of them acting like that. I am sure that all of those guys demand the most out of their employees and push them to give more than they give.

It's just the abrasive - "I am the best entrepreneur in the Valley" attitude that I am talking about here.

It's about time we call a spade a spade.

surfrat2• 16 years ago

Wow Marc, now I see why you are so upset about Jason. As I mentioned before I do not agree with his tyrannical leadership methodology, but it seems to have worked for him in the past and others have testified to its effectiveness(sometime).

But truth be told we are all adults here and have the choice to work with or without Mr. Calacanis. That said, your whole point boils down to "he shouldn't say he, or his way, is the best cause it is making me sick to hear it over and over again". That, my friend is just juvenile. How old are you again?

Again, if you don't like to hear Jason spout then stop watching his network or his shows, simple as that. This kind of Jayting is just juvenile and unproductive. Why does he need to be compared to Bezos et al....what have you done? The best revenge against people like Jason is to do what you do and crush it your way. If you are not doing that then find another place to displace your jealous rage.

All the best.

SudarshanP• 16 years ago

Think about this... Jason needs visibility. People who spend so much energy hating him, provide him the visibility he needs. Some people will hate him just like some people hate Steve Jobs. Now when an Apple fanboy fights a naysayer, Apple benefits even if both sides are equally adamant. If a Jason hater argues with Jason's padawans ;-) with equal enthusiasm, probably Jason gains. Anyway jason's gains are non measurable but somehow it looks like a gain to my possibly naive eyes.

But all this has a good side for the entrepreneur... If Arrington and Jason keep fighting each other the entrepreneur benefits coz no single superpower rules tech media. They will both need to treat the entrepreneur with more respect than if they could "collude with each other" ;-).

Jason is notorious enough in the HN circles that if you choose to work for him after hearing all you have heard, you are either an idiot or a genius. Do the math of creating ur startup v/s joining him as an employee and if the math doesn't work out, don't bother to apply :-).

I remember reading a pg essay that each successive employee brings in less and less value... something like 1:1/4:1/9:...1/n^2

that is not hours of work but value. As the nth employee if you do not get what u deserve, for creating 1/n^2 of the value, just move on, else stay back.

I hope someone creates a startup that computes a desirability of working with various startups, angel investors and the like. Something like seatgeek with parameters like how handsomely the employees are rewarded, how tolerable the workplace is and so on. I guess there is a smooth curve from being the first employee to being the millionth. Each person can choose his own sweet spot.

jammons4• 16 years ago

I've been at Mahalo for about 1 1/2 years now, and I can certainly appreciate what all of you are saying about how I'd have to be an idiot to work here. Luckily I had no idea who Jason was when I started, so I didn't know all of the lore surrounding his insanity. Most of it is exactly that. People get together and sensationalize his attitude and statements (he encourages this a bit with his public persona, I'll grant you that).

For the most part, working with him has been a pleasant experience. He can flip out from time to time, often there's a good reason, sometimes not. He's not much more crazy than any other boss I've ever had, and his contributions to Mahalo far outweigh any of this.

On the plus side, we get sweet perks, our internal culture is awesome (because we don't get slackers on the team), and we're doing some very cool stuff on the technical side of things. (Expect to see more of that in the future, and if you're ever in LA, stop by the ScaleLA or LA Django meetups we host.)

That said, I'm a little dismayed that hacker news spends so much time gossiping about Jason. Get over it guys. If you don't want to work for him, don't. If you do, send over a resume.

ddodge• 16 years ago

My son Darren works for Jason at Mahalo. He is too busy working to comment here...so I will for him :-)

Darren works 6 or 7 days a week because he loves what he is doing, and is learning a ton from Jason. Yes, he is tough and has high expectations. But, Jason is the best mentor and teacher around.

Jason isn't for everyone, but if you want to rise to the top really fast...a ride with Jason will get you there.

marcamillion20• 16 years ago

Don, I am assuming this is Don Dodge, I won't debate that he can teach you a lot, and be a great mentor and possibly an awesome angel.

It's the attitude that he has - which we could excuse if his accomplishments were as big as he makes them seem like they are.

I am not diminishing the fact that he built a company from scratch and sold it to AOL for $30M. That's not a small feat, so don't get me wrong.

But, that happens almost every day in many industries. There are countless stories like that, and we don't see all of those CEOs acting like they are God's gift to technology. Jason acts like that, and quite frankly, when you compare him to his peers (the YouTube guys, Andreesen, Joshua Schacter, Max Levchin, etc.) - he comes up short.

As has been said so many times, the only people that I think has the right to act like that are Jobs, Gates, Bezos, etc. And they don't.

WillPao• 16 years ago

I wrote my reply on your blog, but I'll re-post it here:

Well, I think you missed Jason's point frankly. He said people who work for him end up going on to achieve great things, and that is true. Sean Percival, for instance, worked at Mahalo two years ago, and now he's the VP of Online Marketing at MySpace. A huge jump in two years (Percival was not a well-known figure when he started at Mahalo). It seems that many people can use Jason as a springboard. He is a great connection to have, and if you own stock, you can probably make a lot of money. (Mahalo will be sold to Demand Media in 2011, so yes, the product is "great," as in, it will have a solid exit, which is the point).

Different people respond better to different leadership styles. Some people could not stand playing for Bobby Knight. Others liked his "I'm going to challenge you until you break" style. It's really a matter of personal preference.

fareastenders• 16 years ago

Having read the post and comments, the entire argument seems to be "Some don't want to work for a narcissistic, work-obsessed outspoken boss" and "narcissistic, work-obsessed outspoken people make it".

You know the single thing that every single successful entrepreneur, in any field, has in common? They're work-obsessed. They bust their balls. I'd rather work for someone like JC than a work-shy narcissist.

HectorRamos2• 16 years ago

Shhh, don't say that aloud here. You'll get down-voted. I thought Hacker News was about getting things done and kicking ass, not living the easy comfy life. Sheez.

rebooter• 16 years ago

If you have never started a business and suffered the consequences of having hired the wrong employees you lack the perspective necessary in order to voice an opinion on this matter. From my perspective, having started several businesses, succeeded and failed, I see no flaw whatsoever in what Jason is saying.

The consequences of hiring the wrong people can be dire, particularly when you need them to perform. I had a director of sales who was instrumental in killing one of my businesses.

When times got tough he did not have the "killer instinct" Jason talks about. Sales were down. Times were tough. I relied on him to go turn over rocks and find sales. Long story short, he just didn't have it in him. I had hired the wrong person. Funny thing is that there was another candidate that was rougher around the edges but definitely had the drive. I chose the more "refined" candidate (in my eyes) and made a huge mistake.

Jason is right.

If you don't understand it's because you lack the context. My favorite Mark Twain saying applies here:

"A man holding a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way".

Hold THAT cat by the tail first. Then you'll have an opinion worth considering.

I would never work for Jason Calacanis - There, I said it

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