Thanks HN: Goodbye, Golden Handcuffs

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1960437

by jriley • 16 years ago

347 115 16 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I'm a YC '08 Reject underwhelmed by my safe, boring corporate gig. Regular scans of HN remind me of the excellent things happening elsewhere. I was particularly struck by the theory that the best example you can set for your kids (0 so far) is to pursue your dreams, not an income.

I quit today, bought the supportive girlfriend a ring, and will start January 2011 as my own boss. I'm giving myself six months to bootstrap. Thought you should be the first to know.

Let the fun begin.

arianb• 16 years ago

It'll be a tough and long road, but if you're really set on it, you'll be happier than ever. Good luck, man.

danielson• 16 years ago

Godspeed!

kaffeinecoma• 16 years ago

What are you planning to work on?

jriley5• 16 years ago

The original project exists in working order and my partners agreed to let me buy their share. I'll be building out v2 as we designed. We all took 2 weeks off in 2007 to build it, launched it, and hardly ever touched it again. v2 carries it to iPhone, iPad and starts marketing it.

If I have ambition after that I've got a few quick ideas (a short e-book on an area I've developed expertise, an obscure niche how-to site, fixing up my rental property, etc).

tapiwa• 16 years ago

Well, good luck.

Do not necessarily do one project at a time though. Keep a list of things you want to work on. Whenever you find yourself needing to take a break from the main project, chip away at one of the secondary projects.

You might be surprised to find the idea you deem least important actually giving you the biggest payoff.

doublez• 16 years ago

Semiapies2• 16 years ago

You took a few downvotes from a faux pas; don't worry about it, but keep in mind that here, we just upvote the original post for a direct "+1".

jey• 16 years ago

Relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwG_qR6XmDQ

Rumor is that the "boss" was actually David E. Shaw himself.

hasenj2• 16 years ago

I already regret not learning serious hacking in high school and university.

I got lots of A's (and B's), mind you, and I did work on projects of my own and everything, but I really saw it as just a hobby. I was always on windows, mostly dependent an IDEs, and I always thought I gotta be doing something more serious, like gasp oil and gas.

Good thing I'm still 25.

But I really feel like I should've started thinking about doing a startup when I was 18 or 20.

gregpilling• 16 years ago

I am 41 with a product to be launched soon. It is never too late.

earle• 16 years ago

It's not a rumor, Jeff Bezos did indeed work at D.E. Shaw & Co. So did quite a few well known people in technology.

skbach• 16 years ago

6 mos ain't enough, but otherwise, great idea.

sachitgupta• 16 years ago

How much do you think is enough?

nostrademons5• 16 years ago

3 years.

http://friendfeed.com/paul/0268007b/how-long-does-it-take-to...

Xuzz2• 16 years ago

Then again, no matter how much time you give yourself, you will find a way to fill it up. Maybe an unrealistic goal is for the best: it might increase productivity, even if it slips.

mtholking• 16 years ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_Law

lrm2422• 16 years ago

6 months isn't enough for what? To build a product and start selling it? To raise venture money? To put together a presentation and pitch 10 customers?

6 months is plenty of time to accomplish a lot. It's enough time to build a product and get non-trivial revenue. It's certainly enough time to prove to himself that he made the right decision.

cmer• 16 years ago

I completely agree with this. 6 months is definitely not enough runway to iterate a few times and find a winning combination. I've seen too many people fail because of the lack of runway.

I suggest that you do a few consulting gigs on the side to keep you afloat...

Congrats on your big move!

noelchurchill• 16 years ago

Your account is less than an hour old. Did you create a new one since applying to YC in 08?

jriley5• 16 years ago

Yes, just created this account. I never posted on the old account, just read.

dorkitude• 16 years ago

Congrats :)

If you're in SF, let me know

We have a sweet co-working space for hackers with all of the three C's: coffee, camaraderie, and a fast connection

jriley5• 16 years ago

Appreciate it. I'm actually in Austin though, and eager to meet some like-minded folks. I'll be checking out the local bootstrap chapter to start.

lrm2422• 16 years ago

Love to meet Austin entrepreneurs. Send me a note and let's get coffee: LinkedIn is in my profile or marascio at gmail.

jcsalterego• 16 years ago

You should hit up http://cafebedouins.com and http://opencoffeeaustin.org.

malbiniak• 16 years ago

Congratulations, good luck, and reach out often and always if you need a nudge or support. Full disclosure: I've been in the same boat and have been threatening to jump. If you're open to it, I'd love to exchange a few emails.

ps, wasn't there a new incubator recently announced in Austin?

codypo2• 16 years ago

I can speak from experience when I say that Austin's entrepreneurial community is welcoming, supportive, and full of very sharp folks. You should definitely check out the Lean Startup group (http://www.meetup.com/Austin-Lean-Startup-Circle/). Our next meetup is a joint holiday mixer with a lot of other Austin groups (like Austin on Rails), and it promises to be a great way to meet a ton of folks.

Also, I'm not sure if you're looking for a workspace with a lot of people in the same position, but we've really benefited from participation in the Austin Technology Incubator.

Edit: why do I say folks so much?

edash• 16 years ago

I'm in Austin, have a company that's tiny but growing and have a few friends doing startups. I'd love to help any way I can.

Email me! It's in my profile...

dannyr• 16 years ago

In the Bay Area here.

Where/what is your coworking space in SF?

PStamatiou2• 16 years ago

Another SF-based startup here - I would love to know as well. We usually work out of my apartment (don't tell my landlord!) but getting a change of scenery from time to time would be nice.

staunch• 16 years ago

> Thought you should be the first to know.

Good and good luck. Now please tell your fiancée!

suhail• 16 years ago

jriley: Email me suhail@mixpanel.com -- You just got free Mixpanel, good luck when you launch we're here to help.

DanielN• 16 years ago

This is some of the best and most simplistic advertising and pr I've seen in a while. I've heard of mix panel probably 50 times but this was the first time I clicked through your website to see what you guys are all about.

Nice product by the way.

bueller• 16 years ago

ha me too

jacquesm2• 16 years ago

Classy!

Semiapies2• 16 years ago

Good luck!

patio11• 16 years ago

Congratulations on making the most important decision of your life and, secondarily, on opening the business. Words cannot express how much better self-employment is than what I used to do for a living.

stavros• 16 years ago

Well, it's only good if it's making you money...

Ixiaus• 16 years ago

Not always true...

thenbrent2• 16 years ago

It's only sustainable if it's making you money. It's always good, even when it's bad.

daeken3• 16 years ago

I disagree. I spent 3.5 years doing the startup thing. I made effectively no money. Knowing what I know now, I'd do it again in a heartbeat, no questions asked. I learned more and grew up more in that time than in the rest of my life.

jasonkester2• 16 years ago

Not necessarily. Neither of the sites that have done the most for my quality of life have ever brought in much in the way of direct income. They have, however, put me out there as a guy who's capable of building products like that, which have led to some really good consulting gigs, thus allowing me to keep traveling the world and doing my thing from a laptop.

So even though it was years before I hit on the first product that generated significant income on its own, there was still a net benefit from having put out my shingle right from the start.

jeromec3• 16 years ago

Let the [work] begin.

FTFY I hope you're prepared to work at least five times harder than you did at your safe job, and for little to no guaranteed reward. Actually, if you're only giving yourself six months, make that ten times harder. I would say good luck, but considering around 90% of startups fail, work hard, be persistent and expect difficulty, seems more helpful to say. The success stories appearing on HN can give a skewed impression on how hard it is to succeed. Congratulations, though, for bucking a potential path of regrets.

Edit: A bit more advice is release early, and often. The trick is finding the balance between minimum viability and having enough value for traction. Iterating on an idea is almost always necessary, so be on the lookout for how that can help and possibly even save your endeavor. A six month deadline to succeed means you're really going to be up against it.

rewind• 16 years ago

The comments and/or advice you're giving (and the tone you're using) are the type of things you say to someone before they decide to make the jump if you want them to think long and hard before making a tough decision. When you say it like this to someone who is announcing that his decision is made, you just sound condescending. It doesn't help that you throw in a bunch of advice when you don't even know who he is, what his company/product is about, or what his plan is.

jeromec3• 16 years ago

I don't mean to sound condescending. I can't help the timing of the decision, either. I'm also guessing he's read HN enough to have more than my comments to weigh for various perceptions of a startup. To my knowledge the failure rate of startups is around 90% (not my doing). In light of that, I felt the best thing I could do if I wanted to truly help, which I do, is try and foster a tough, ready for battle mental mindset. His announcement seemed a bit cheery and optimistic, and I wanted to suggest that, realistically, the road to startup success is not usually a cakewalk. HN is largely a startup community, so I figured others might find value in my comments as well, and if such comments harm his enthusiasm, and are more destructive than constructive then, IMO, he's quite likely to end up in the 90%.

c2• 16 years ago

There's nothing wrong with a bit of honesty.

You need to be mentality prepared for the difficulties inherent in starting a business all by yourself. It is a different set of challenges then corporate life and the more you understand that ahead of time the better off you'll be.

I appreciate advice like that over a superfluous "good luck", "you made the right choice"< etc.

toast763• 16 years ago

Wow. The Thanksgiving parade was last week Mr. Raincloud.

Here's some positive thoughts for you!

- Running your own business is quite simply the most rewarding thing you can ever do (professionally at least). - Succeed or fail, you'll come out of it better off than you started. - Don't measure your success by whether TechCrunch writes about you. Measure it by being proud of what you achieve. - Even your biggest failures are at worst just one learning step to your first success. - If nobody has heard of you in 10 years time, but you're happy, enjoying your work, have a happy and healthy family and you're still your own boss...then you've succeeded. Congratulations.

Most importantly - Ignore "minimum viability", "traction", "iteration", "deadline" and all the other things a dozen different "5 steps to success" books might tell you.... if you have the confidence to go it alone, then do what works for you, YOUR product and YOUR dream.

roel_v3• 16 years ago

"Succeed or fail, you'll come out of it better off than you started."

About half of the comments I read so far have said something to this effect so far, there's only so much a man can take before he needs to speak up ;) : this is bullshit. I know many (as in, 10+) people who started a company and got utterly fucked for the next decade, maybe two, because of its failure; and all they have to show for it is a period on their CV that they have to make excuses for at any interview they go to.

Sometimes, failing can bring you valuable experiences that you can apply afterward, and only if you go into a specific direction as an employee after your business has failed. This hippy bullshit 'all is great, even if your wife leaves you, you're 100k in debt and you've spend the best decade of your life not even in an office but in a spare bedroom hunched over a desk made of an old door' needs to go and be replaced with realism: spending 5 to 10 years in abject poverty, rebuilding a life at an age where most of your peers are living a happy life with their families sucks.

The potential upside is huge, and yes if you just manage to sustain your company you've been successful, but don't make it sound like it's going to be great no matter what the outcome, because it's not.

jasonkester2• 16 years ago

This is what everybody says, but I just haven't found it to be true.

I work 40 hour weeks sometimes, 20 hour weeks other times, and often go entire months not doing much at all on the startup. The ball is always moving forward though, and things are always getting better.

It really doesn't take a huge amount of effort to get your first version out the door. And it doesn't take much effort beyond that to get to the point where money is coming in. Once that happens, there's no particular reason I can think of to work 60 hour weeks, unless that is something you want to do.

Naturally, it depends on what you're building. If you're a single founder though, it pays to build something straightforward that solves problems for people with money. There's lots of things like that that need building. Build one and you'll (hopefully) find it doesn't monopolize your life.

jeromec3• 16 years ago

I certainly agree that's possible, but not everyone finds the road rosy. See here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1961429. Better to overestimate the difficulty and be pleasantly surprised than vice versa IMO (especially in the context of a 6 month deadline).

donaq• 16 years ago

Good luck!

sreitshamer• 16 years ago

You might need a lot more than 6 months. But, like my wife always tells me, you don't fail as an entrepreneur until you quit. And the ride is sure worth it. Life is short.

kadavy• 16 years ago

Amen on that. I figured I'd need 6 months starting about 3 years ago. Things are really starting to come together now though.

pbhjpbhj2• 16 years ago

>you don't fail as an entrepreneur until you quit.

I'm not experienced in it, but I imagine that one can fail as an entrepreneur because you didn't quit.

Flogging dead horses and all.

rrrhys• 16 years ago

Best of luck, very envious over here!

Do you have a blog?

jriley5• 16 years ago

Thanks, no blog yet. Plan to start and post as I learn (Austin places to work/meet, local grants and SBA loans, best library for tech books, etc).

middlegeek• 16 years ago

Good deal, I am happy for you! Get some stuff done.

toast763• 16 years ago

If I have two pieces of advice I can share,

1. Pick up some contract work - you can easily turn 6 mths into 12 mths, and then 2 years, then 3...no matter how many projects fail to get off the ground, if you have a bit of side income, it'll help in the long run.

2. Don't ever forget why you quit - if that is to "pursue your dreams, not an income". Write it on a wall above your monitors and don't ever forget it.

EDIT: Oh, and good luck! :)

gommm• 16 years ago

Be careful with contract work though, it's very easy to fall into the trap of taking on too much and pushing back your own project...

Contract work can be worse golden handcuffs than a job in corporate

jacquesm2• 16 years ago

It beats personal bankruptcy hands down though.

nerd_in_rage• 16 years ago

how much cash do you have in savings? i'm thinking of doing the same thing.

jriley5• 16 years ago

Living Fat = 3 months, Living Lean = 12+ months. I'll use my 401k but not Roth IRA. Also have some equity/cashflow from a duplex that helps. FWIW, I woke up this morning feeling great on 4 hrs sleep and not worried about money at all - the prior six months mornings were filled with worry and dread.

volandovengo• 16 years ago

Good for you man, I did the same about a month ago. Amazing how hard I found getting rid of the golden handcuffs.

checoivan• 16 years ago

Glad to hear this kind of stuff. Your words encourage me to do the exact same thing.

gshannon• 16 years ago

This is the best thing you will ever do.

You will look back at this moment and realize it is the defining moment in your life.

kj12345• 16 years ago

Good luck! One odd piece of advice I have is to recommend limiting the amount of startup advice you read online. It's too generic now that you've committed. Focus on what you're creating, not on making your venture look like the internet's current concept of "startup". Look, for example, at the popular phrase "Minimum Viable Product". You'll find a lot of excitement around the "minimum" part, but the "viable" part matters also and is fully dependent on what you're doing. There are many things that are unique about individual businesses, but generic online advice by necessity exaggerates the shared aspects.

dstein• 16 years ago

  Once you have mastered time, you will understand how
  true it is that most people overestimate what they can
  accomplish in a year - and underestimate what they can
  achieve in a decade.

  -Tony Robbins

dmoney• 16 years ago

How do you master time?

bobf• 16 years ago

The same thing is true on smaller scales as well, for example: 1 day versus 10.

narsimham• 16 years ago

this is a great way to go.

i left my job with no savings and intending to do the same thing, because i was just not happy with my position at my new employer.

within three months i was completely broke, but with a github account with hundreds of commits.. and then my old boss from my second-to-last job called, and offered me job back, at a huge raise, and allowing me to work remotely, and pursue my own codebase/startup dream on the side.

quitting for the right reasons can have wonderful side benefits. :)

keeptrying• 16 years ago

Congrats! Reread pg's essays on how to startup etc ... As u read them this time around, the words will prtain to your immediate situation and will help unwhen things look bleak.

Best of luck.

PStamatiou2• 16 years ago

jriley: Email me paul@notifo.com Would love to intro you to someone you should meet in Austin.

csomar2• 16 years ago

I still a student but I'm building my small Internet Empire, so that I don't need to apply for a job when I finish studies (or better, don't think about it). I completed around 35% of my studies and yet, this month, made (around $400) what an Engineer would make in my area.

I'm enthusiastic about the future, especially the next month, when I'll release my Wordpress Premium plugin (and estimate $1K in sales in one month).

Even if you have a nice job, make sure you always have an alternative, in case of... you don't get sucked, by anyone.

ncarroll• 16 years ago

Congratulations, jriley on not one, but two monumental decisions. The ring for your girlfriend should turn out to be a contribution to your success equal to your decision to leave your job. Good luck to you both!

whiletruefork• 16 years ago

I just did the same thing, albeit - I only gave myself 6 weeks to make acceptable progress on something (anything) before I start working full time again. It's my mental safeguard against procrastination.

raghava• 16 years ago

Wonderful! Wish you a ton of good luck!

  >>underwhelmed by my safe, boring corporate gig
  I know how it feels! :( And am yet to break those handcuffs.

seejay• 16 years ago

Dear fellow HNer,

This is to help you when you visit this page again in a difficult time...

Shit happens... thats completely normal. Awesome things will definitely come your way. You only gotta do one simple thing...

Keep swinging!.. Don't ever give up!

Tattoo this on the back of your hand if you want... it's totally worth the trouble.

With the very best of luck,

SeeJay

PS: And thank me on that day when you read this post again with joy... Oh just for the record, No! I don't have it tattooed on the back of my hand... I make sure I have it on my mind instead. ;-)

tomrod• 16 years ago

Best of luck! If things look grim, don't give in.

gawker2• 16 years ago

Good luck and do let us know how it goes!!

marcamillion• 16 years ago

Firstly...let me say...Congrats.

Secondly, brilliant that you made sure to lock in the girlfriend at the beginning of the journey, not after you started when she realizes what a crazy person you are - and how crappy the emotional roller coaster will be. :)

Thirdly, I wish you all the best. I would recommend that you quickly setup a landing page to ride the support you are getting from the community - collecting emails from people interested in what you are doing. You have to take advantage of all of these opportunities right now, because you officially have a clock strapped to your back (i.e. before you run out of money). So leverage every opportunity to the most you can. On the landing page, put something about the project that people can figure out if they would be interested or not.

Fourthly, definitely keep us posted - even those that might not be interested in your product, will be inspired by your story.

efsavage• 16 years ago

"the best example you can set for your kids ... is to pursue your dreams, not an income"

My father did this, in several ways, and failed massively at all of them, and yet for reasons I can't really articulate I 100% agree with this.

eande• 16 years ago

When I kicked off my startup in Jan 2010 I thought in 6 months the bootstrap period will come to an end. Now 12 months into it and still some more time needed. My advice check on the six month bootstrap timing you plan, might be a little short.

d8niel• 16 years ago

You only live once!

Thanks HN: Goodbye, Golden Handcuffs

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