Intel ends 5G modem alliance with Beijing-backed chipmaker

https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/Trade-war/Intel-ends-5G-modem-alliance-with-Beijing-backed-chipmaker

by ishikawa • 7 years ago

161 76 7 years ago

asia.nikkei.com

smaili• 7 years ago

Has anyone else been experiencing horrendous data speeds with their iPhone XS? I only ask because this was the first model shipped with an Intel modem, amd compared to my 6S this is nowhere near as fast or reliable over 4G and LTE.

jak922• 7 years ago

actually, most of the carrier locked iphone x's were also shipped with intel chips.

swozey• 7 years ago

Yeah I've been heavily following phones the last few weeks as I was considering switch to an iPhone (just ordered the s10 5 minutes ago) and the XR modem is a constant complaint on reddit and in reviews. I'd send links but I'm walking through to work. I can't remember if the non XR phones have the same complaint off the top of my head. I feel like they did and the XR was just way more common to hear about (probably due to far more people with XRs).

It was a very common complaint in youtube and reddit comments anytime a review was posted.

ksec4• 7 years ago

I only ask because this was the first model shipped with an Intel modem

7, 8 / X All had a version with Intel Modem. XS is, however the first model to ship only with Intel Modem.

I don't think it has horrendous Data Speed. But it is certainly has a different characteristics to Qualcomm Modem. XS is generally weaker with signals, and we are not quite sure if it was the 4x4 MIMO or the Intel Modem. XR doesn't seems to be as bad so a guess would be due to Apple's implementation of 4x4 Antenna. While ALL phones had problems with 4x4 Antenna in their first generation, that includes Samsung and Huawei, you generally expect Apple, being a year late to the tech would have ironed out most of it.

But generally speaking, a Qualcomm Modem would still get better signal than Intel. This is especially a problem in US where the Cell Tower Density is lower as compared to Asia / EU counterpart.

There has also been 3 to 4 Modem Firmware revision since launch, and likely more to come in iOS 12.2, let just hope ( pray ) Intel's next Modem 7660 is actually better. And Apple could actually put a rounding error budget into their Antenna Design, because as far as Flagship Smartphone is concerned, iPhone has the worst one.

Or Qualcomm will relent and work with Apple again, but judging from the Court testimony this seems highly unlikely.

dmix• 7 years ago

This is interesting. Do you work in a field where you get to test phone modems?

izend• 7 years ago

I've noticed my iPhone 8 (confirmed Intel modem) has a terrible time with weaker signals compared to my wife's Samsung 6.

I am surprised there hasn't been more buzz about the degraded antenna performance by the public.

roneythomas6• 7 years ago

When i went from Pixel 2 to iPhone XR, the signal drop is noticeable also i find LTE speeds are faster on Pixel 2 than on XR.

hermitdev• 7 years ago

Trying to be just mildly sarcastic here, but do you think this will be a case of "you're holding it wrong"?

I know where the attenaes are placed versus where your hand is placed can block signal. But is this a similar case, or just a limitation of the tech? I mean 5G uses higher wavelengths, which inherently penetrate weeker into structures, etc. So: what's the problem? I only briefly studied antennae theory in college and have never practiced in theory, so I hope its viewed as an honest question.

phyalow• 7 years ago

My XS has given me mindblowing performance on Vodafone UK, certainly better than my iPhone 7. I guess your mileage may vary.

mtgx2• 7 years ago

I assume Intel realized this "partnership" was not worth China stealing all of its IP and designs only to come up with a competing product that 90% as good and half the price a couple of years later?

If only more companies realized the same. Not that this means they won't have to protect themselves against China's relentless IP stealing.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/30/tech/samsung-china-tech-t...

azinman2• 7 years ago

They largely won’t because they’re all short term motivated.

52-6F-623• 7 years ago

Don't forget the Nortel situation...

https://outline.com/879RCq

ishikawa• 7 years ago

also worth reading: https://www.wired.com/story/ai-cold-war-china-could-doom-us-...

Dahoon3• 7 years ago

Holy shit, that picture at the top is the most propaganda-brainwashed-picture I have seen since looking at old cold war pictures. As if the US is in a good vs. evil fight. Well it might be, but on which side?

coldtea• 7 years ago

I assume Intel realized this "partnership" was not worth China stealing all of its IP and designs only to come up with a competing product that 90% as good and half the price a couple of years later?

No, the US realized they're in a trade war with China, and companies follow suit on their master's orders on both sides.

Dahoon3• 7 years ago

Not saying anything for or against, but whose laws are being broken since it is considered theft?

__m• 7 years ago

Patent laws which the US happily ignored while its economy was developing and collecting IP. China will also soon be at a point where they’ll be more interested in protecting their IP against developing countries

reaperducer• 7 years ago

I assume Intel realized this "partnership" was not worth China stealing all of its IP and designs only to come up with a competing product that 90% as good and half the price a couple of years later?

Not a couple of years later. A couple of hours later.

http://www.unisoc.com/unisoc-launches-5g-technology-platform...

entity3452• 7 years ago

Incidently Unisoc has launched its 5G modem today:

http://www.unisoc.com/unisoc-launches-5g-technology-platform...

ksec4• 7 years ago

So they manage to launch a 2G - 5G MultiMode Modem inline with other Industry leaders ( Comparatively Speaking ) Like Intel and Qualcomm.

And Intel decide to end the partnership? Something doesn't sound right. Or did they get IP from other players?

dis-sys• 7 years ago

Unisoc bought Spreadtrum a few years ago and Spreadtrum has been in the modem business since 2010 with its 3/4G modems doing ok in many medrange to low end smartphones, e.g. Samsung J1, Samsung Z series.

entity3452• 7 years ago

Chinese companies have been working on multimode chips for 20 years and are leader in 5G.

40acres• 7 years ago

5G is the new space race and sooner than later we're going to have a Sputnik moment. Everything coming out of China needs to be taken with a grain of salt but it definitely seems likely that they will have a head start in 5G deployments, especially as Europeans seem resistant to US demands to boycott Huawei.

jak922• 7 years ago

no, 5g is hype. seriously, unless you want to live in a dystopian society where everything is "connected" it's not really a big deal

AlwaysRock• 7 years ago

We're getting closer and closer to that future regardless of what we want.

foolfoolz• 7 years ago

when 5g comes we will all:

- feel the internet on our phones is about the same speed as it is now

- pay the same amount each month on phone bill

- have same low coverage areas as we already do

- see a bigger number on the top row of the phone

nradov2• 7 years ago

Every previous "G" was a big deal in terms of opening up new applications and business opportunities by significantly improving latency, bandwidth, and power efficiency. Going from 4G to 5G will eventually have just as huge an impact as going from 3G to 4G did, although rolling out the technology worldwide will be a slow gradual process.

ghobs91• 7 years ago

Think about how many of the most popular apps right now would be unusable on a 3g connection. Uploading/viewing an entire feed of images and videos on social media, streaming shows and twitch, online shopping feeds that need to load tons of product images, etc. The speed bump from 3g to 4g was what allowed these entire industries to flourish.

In terms of the improvements from 4g to 5g, going from 40mbps to 400mbps may not yield super noticeable improvements right now, but you know what will? 5g's other big feature, wired internet levels of low latency. That means things that require instant feedback like remote controlling delivery drones or surgeons performing remote surgeries by controlling a DaVinci robot in the middle of africa from their office in the US.

So no 5g is not hype, the focus is just too much on the speed and not enough on the possibilities opened by 5ms latency on devices connecting miles away from a tower.

TorKlingberg• 7 years ago

I can add a bit of technical context here. High-end phones usually have a baseband chip separate from the main SoC. There is also an RF chip and some discrete components in front of the antennas. Qualcomm is quite dominant, but Apple has switched to Intel over the last few years.

In low- or mid-end phones the baseband is usually integrated in the main SoC. Taiwanese MediaTek is the biggest supplier. Unisoc clearly wants to compete with MediaTek, and Intels modem division has trouble getting into low-end phones as nobody wants complete Intel SoCs in phones. So they agreed to integrate Intels modem as an IP block in Unisoc chips.

In tablets and the few laptops that have mobile data the baseband + RF are usually on a modem module, M.2 or similar. The Librem 5 phone also takes this approach.

JustSomeNobody2• 7 years ago

I thought Qualcomm integrated all that onto the SOC after LTE. LTE was a huge battery drain at first because they weren't integrated.

Am I not understanding something here?

phonon5• 7 years ago

Qualcomm sells discrete modems as well. (Apple used to be their major customer for them).

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/modems

subway• 7 years ago

Apple devices (and a handful of android tablets) use separate baseband chips. Most android SoCs have the baseband on the same silicon as the arm cores.

newusertoday• 7 years ago

your understanding is correct except apple everyone else using qualcomm's soc in premium phones uses integrated baseband inside qc's soc. There is one difference though first launches at the time of "G" tansitions i.e. 3g to 4g,4g to 5g also use discrete modems because technology is generally not mature enough to be integrated into soc.

yaantc• 7 years ago

LTE was a huge battery drain at first because they weren't integrated

No, the modem/SoC integration is not a big factor. Having an internal communication inside a single SoC will always be a bit better than going through an external interface, but it's not a significant impact when compared to the total phone power consumption. As other have said, iPhones have an external modem and are fine. Qualcomm insisted on this because they had it, and they're good at marketing.

LTE was a drain at first for the same reason 3G was a drain at first. Cellular standards are designed to have a long life, and are over dimensioned initially. Then Moore law and other optimizations kicks in and make things more acceptable. This is intentional, otherwise the standard would not make the best use of technology over time. And this is something where we need to keep an eye for 5G: Moore law, strictly speaking (higher density for the least cost process. One can still get better, for a higher price) is over. Hopefully 5G will have properly taken this into account.

But then for 5G a big part of the power will be in the RF front-end, with all those antennas. Here too it'll be interesting to see how it evolves over time.

mtgx2• 7 years ago

Qualcomm's first 5G modems (the ones that will ship this year) will not be integrated into the SoC.

madengr• 7 years ago

I wonder if China has developed the mmWave in silicon that will be required for the beam steering front ends?

dspwizard• 7 years ago

Huawei is far ahead of others in mMIMO technology and have this implemented in their BTS boards, although right now it is done in FPGA not ASIC.

cowabungamann• 7 years ago

Where can I, a technical person, learn about 5G? I'm interested in what makes it better? What tradeoffs are being made? What are the implications of those tradeoffs? etc

Intel ends 5G modem alliance with Beijing-backed chipmaker

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