Consumer DNA tests revealing misattributed parentage

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/07/dna-test-misattributed-paternity/562928/?single_page=true

by prostoalex • 8 years ago

87 126 8 years ago

Some countries, like for example France, make DNA tests pretty much illegal to prevent discovering painful truths like this.

rjdagost• 8 years ago

The French government claims that fatherhood is determined by society, and not biology. That is a very unscientific law.

jacobush• 8 years ago

How is it unscientific?

Randin• 8 years ago

It doesn't have to be scientific.

bayesian_horse2• 8 years ago

It's not unscientific to define fatherhood in a way that doesn't involve genetic or copulative parentage.

crumbshot3• 8 years ago

The French government claims that fatherhood is determined by society

It is. A child does not need to be genetically related to their parents. Adoption is a common practice.

vkou• 8 years ago

What makes it unscientific? Because it makes it difficult to access information?

There's a lot of information access to which is, by law, forbidden, or restricted.

s_kilk• 8 years ago

That is a very unscientific law.

And yours is an extraordinarily myopic view. It should be obvious that fatherhood is more about kinship bond, duty, and obligation than it is about genetics.

baud1472582• 8 years ago

It's a claim that the legal relationship between father and children will not rely on DNA relationship, but on the father acknowledging the child as his own.

simula67• 8 years ago

I think it a grave offense to the dignity of men and women to deprive them if vital truths like this. The French really have fallen

toomanybeersies5• 8 years ago

I don't think that the French have fallen at all, but rather that attitude has been part of French culture for a long time.

As an example, it has been illegal since Napoleonic times for the French government to collect data on ancestry or ethnicity.

kukx4• 8 years ago

That's terribly oppressive. Honestly no one should be forced to directly support other person child. It must be a voluntary process to be just. The biological parents should be financially responsible by default. It seems obvious to me.

zavi• 8 years ago

They ship to France: https://eu.customercare.23andme.com/hc/en-us/articles/204712...

dm8• 8 years ago

There was an interesting thread on reddit where people were sharing their experiences with DNA tests and their parentage/ancestry. I was surprised with sheer number of them being listed/shared there. I never considered DNA tests will have such a weird side effects. It's a fascinating to see how much science or scientific tests in future can lead to weird results (not that I'm condoning cheating or anything) -

Thread for the interested - https://np.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/comments/7mu9zn/there...

EDIT: And every now and then you see these threads - https://np.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/8iq8hu/my_parents_a...

More meta questions - will DNA testing result in fidelity of relationships or some sort of regulation where you are not allowed to tell these uncomfortable truths?

Regardless, I'm fascinated by DNA and how much it can reveal about ourselves. Not to mention emerging trends like CRISPR.

tanbog• 8 years ago

Maybe part of the issue is an over-emphasis on "fidelity". People have always played around - or to be frank, many women have been assaulted and had to keep it quiet - maybe the best outcome would be more open communication and understanding between couples rather than even more prescriptive social norms about how relationships should work.

mirimir5• 8 years ago

It's not so much about fidelity as honesty.

kukx4• 8 years ago

No. If one was raped it should be reported and the perpetrator should be prosecuted. You cannot let these people go unpunished and potentially rape others.

1000units4• 8 years ago

You word this as if married women being inseminated by other men isn't in the vast majority of cases an unintended consequence of completely intentional behavior. Your "being frank" is framing an incredibly rare situation as primary.

paidleaf8• 8 years ago

People have always played around

Most people don't "play around". We have statistic proof about it.

or to be frank, many women have been assaulted and had to keep it quiet

I'm pretty sure most of the 23andme customers are in the US and not in the congo. By "many" women, you mean almost no women right?

maybe the best outcome would be more open communication and understanding between couples rather than even more prescriptive social norms about how relationships should work.

Opening communication and understanding are the prescriptive social norm. You make it seem like cheating and rape is the norm. Also, most people agree on how relationships should work. That's how we got "prescriptive social norms".

starpilot• 8 years ago

Also in /r/23andme, lots of people finding out they have no Cherokee/Native American heritage after all.

oh_sigh2• 8 years ago

Wait, high cheek bones doesn't automatically mean you have Cherokee heritage?

dahdum• 8 years ago

My mother used to say that she was part, despite us being able to trace our entire tree back to Western Europe.

I always figured it was a popular fad to claim in the 70's.

1337biz• 8 years ago

Do these people happen to be coming from Massachusetts?

burfog• 8 years ago

I'd prefer some sort of regulation where you are required to tell these uncomfortable truths.

Bromskloss5• 8 years ago

I'm fascinated by DNA and how much it can reveal about ourselves. Not to mention emerging trends like CRISPR.

Heh, DNA tests to reveal what we are, and CRISPR to put an end to it.

tathougies2• 8 years ago

You mean misattributed paternity. Misattributed parentage happens mainly to men. It's a much more involved process to defraud a woman of her child than a man.

waterhouse• 8 years ago

I guess the two mechanisms that come to mind:

1. Drug and kidnap the woman, implant an embryo that isn't hers, and bring her back home without her finding out.

2. Switch the baby with another plausible-looking one in the hospital. (I have heard this happens more than one might expect. http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1998-08-16/features/1998228... says "About 28,000 babies get switched in hospitals every year, temporarily or permanently, out of four million births", though "most mistakes are fixed before the baby leaves the hospital".)

bangonkeyboard• 8 years ago

3. The mother is a genetic chimera whose womb has differing DNA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lydia_Fairchild

mbreese• 8 years ago

An IVF mixup is another...

Or a kid who was unknowingly raised by their grandparents is an example where you’d see both parents misattributed.

dragonwriter• 8 years ago

It's a much more involved process to defraud a woman of her child than a man.

Misattributed parentage here is misinforming (intentionally or not) children about their parents. Misinforming supposed or actual parents (what you seem to be concerned about) may or may not be involved.

dang• 8 years ago

We went with the phrase used in the article.

Since some people don't know that they were adopted, it's not just about paternity.

tathougies2• 8 years ago

I didn't say it was just about paternity, just that it is mainly about paternity. Similar to how breast cancer is mainly a women's issue, despite some men getting it as well. The article makes something that is not equal seem equal. That was my one nit.

toomanybeersies5• 8 years ago

It's not unknown for women to come home from hospital with the wrong baby. Here's an example from earlier this year: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/wrong-newbor...

andygcook2• 8 years ago

When I was born in 1988 the hospital gave the wrong baby to my mother to bring home. She realized pretty quickly and they corrected the mistake. I’m sure this doesn’t happen much anymore, but had she not realized she probably wouldn’t have ever known. Obviously that mixup would affect my dad too.

RyJones3• 8 years ago

I found an older half sister via one of these tests. The demotion from oldest to second oldest has been a bitter pill, but having a new older sister is pretty neat!

technofiend• 8 years ago

I found my father through one, sadly he never had any other children. It would have been fun to instantly gain some new siblings. Because I first met him well into my adulthood it was interesting to learn his likes and dislikes since there's no question he didn't directly influence anything I did or didn't do.

We're both avid readers, we both like to live clutter-free lifestyles, we both like to travel. I learned to fly as a hobby and seriously considered it as a career, he was a pilot in the armed services and then professionally until he retired. We both like to go fast: I drove a late 60's Mustang in college, he had a Porsche speedster. Really the only thing we're opposed on is politics as he says "he's slightly to the right of Genghis Khan."

RyJones3• 8 years ago

Talking with my new sister certainly has changed my opinions on nature versus nurture and freewill.

techpenguin549• 8 years ago

But you’re still the oldest male! And what a great older sister you gained. :)

RyJones3• 8 years ago

My older sister, folks :)

apo• 8 years ago

... “This generation right now and maybe the next 15 years or so, there’s going to be a lot of shocking results coming out. I’d say in 20 years’ time it’s going to dissipate,” she predicted. By then, our expectations of privacy will have caught up with the new reality created by the rise of consumer DNA tests.

This reminds me of a discussion in which people were speculating about things that would not exist in the future.

There were many candidates: cancer; hunger; racism; and so on.

By far the most insightful comment came from the person who said "privacy." I don't think most people are ready for that future; it's almost unimaginable.

ap3• 8 years ago

The youtube/fb/ig/snapchat generations might not even expect it

syshum4• 8 years ago

One can not have freedom with out privacy. As we destroy the concept of privacy we also destroy the concept of freedom.

It will be interesting how civilization handles it. We are starting to see some signs of push back, but unfortunely people are turning to governments and authoritarianism as a "solution".

IMO we are at at fork in civilization, and it seems we are choosing the less free, less private path

mirimir5• 8 years ago

Yes, pervasive DNA testing, sequencing even, poses some extremely serious privacy risks. Everyone certainly has the right to know the results of their own tests. But arguably, everyone also has the right to keep those results private. Both from commercial third parties, and from the general public.

icelancer• 8 years ago

> One can not have freedom with out privacy. As we destroy the concept of privacy we also destroy the concept of freedom.

People increasingly do not care about freedom / liberty. This is evident by the people we elect and the things we care about. We celebrate gaining civil rights at the expense of liberty and no one cares about Snowden's revelations or anyone other exposure of government overreach.

Freedom is rapidly dying along with privacy.

baud1472582• 8 years ago

Brave New World is winning over 1984.

Bromskloss5• 8 years ago

One can not have freedom with out privacy.

Why is that? I want both, but I think they are different things.

hugh4life2• 8 years ago

A little OT and most here probably already know, but genetic genealogy(GEDmatch basically) is starting to be used to solve rape and murder cases.

Here's a recent murder case solved a couple weeks ago they announced just on friday that they used genetic genealogy: http://providencejournal.com/news/20180727/how-dna-and-tatto...

And here's the first instance that I know of of a non-fatal rape case where the technology was used.

https://www.thespectrum.com/story/news/2018/07/28/79-year-ol...

bayesian_horse2• 8 years ago

It's a good way to work around privacy issues like offenders not wanting/bothering to have their DNA registered.

That's one of the reasons I believe people tend to be a little too protective of their genetic information. For one thing we spread it around, constantly. For another, all our relatives have some or most of that information too.

hugh4life2• 8 years ago

It's not really collection that's the big issue... the big issue is that the federal DNA database only stores a very small portion of the DNA so familial searches on it are only accurate up to 1st cousins. And there are privacy and disparate impact on minorities(everyone caught thus far with GEDMatch has been white IIRC) complaints with using the federal database for familial searches. With GED Match you can go much deeper(at least to 3rd cousins but IIRC potentially up to 5th) in the family tree than the federal DNA database would allow.

There are about 1 million law enforcement personnel in the US which is about how many samples are in the GEDMatch database... a pretty powerful database could be created just from the samples from law enforcement personnel.

logronoide6• 8 years ago

I dated a girl in the nineties that worked at a maternity ward in a very popular hospital. She said that just comparing blood types five to ten percent of the babies did not belong to the mother’s couple. And of course doctors and nurses never said a word.

qubex4• 8 years ago

Another reason to not want kids.

1000units4• 8 years ago

Or rather another reason to marry a woman of strong character.

logronoide6• 8 years ago

Kids have nothing to do with the honesty of your partner.

ionised• 8 years ago

You mean they mixed up the babies and gave them to the wrong parents?

logronoide6• 8 years ago

It’s almost impossible to mix up babies in a maternity ward nowadays with all tracking stuff they have. No, I mean the mother cheating her couple.

rezeroed• 8 years ago

"Los cornudos" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckold

logronoide6• 8 years ago

English is a very conciseness language too! ;-)

citizenkeen• 8 years ago

My highschool used to do blood typing as a science experiment in bio. Part of the homework was to find out what blood type your parents were. One girl went home (before I was there, the teacher shared the story during the genetics unit), asked her parents their blood types, and "Dad, that's not possible. You can't be that blood type."

One lawsuit from mom later, and the school doesn't do that lab any more.

555anon• 8 years ago

Regarding the misattributed paternity numbers/rates:

Obviously interviewing people isn't going to reveal the correct numbers: If a mother isn't going to tell her child, or doesn't know [switched in the maternity ward, chimera, multiple partners] chances are they aren't going to tell some random researcher either.

However, there was some interesting research at a hospital in the UK (maybe Bristol ?) which tested the men which were present at the birth of the child against the child, and the numbers are rather high - something above 1 in 20. And this is for the men that were present.

Something which should be more common knowledge.

dotancohen3• 8 years ago

There is every reason to believe that this is strongly influenced by culture.

Perhaps the Swedish have a higher incidence, and the Saudis lower. One should not look at a single study in a single place at a single time, that depends almost entirely on human behaviour, and extrapolate to humans as a whole.

marchenko2• 8 years ago

The actual rate of non-paternity in western societies is closer to 3%. The 10-20% figures that appear regularly on the internet are largely derived from rates of non-paternity in cases were paternity was questioned (i.e. pre-existing suspicions of infidelity). The higher ranges quoted (30% is the highest I have seen) are generally from small study populations with extended periods of partner absence, like central American itinerant laborers or African truck drivers.

andygcook2• 8 years ago

I had never heard of chimeraism in humans. Naturally was curious and looked it up. Found this article to be helpful for anyone else interested: http://www.vibrantgene.com/giving-birth-to-your-siblings-bab...

amelius• 8 years ago

Imagine that you are the one doing customer support at one of these companies ...

dotancohen3• 8 years ago

Best line of the fine article, in relation to the discovery by DNA testing of secret infidelity and rape:

It’s getting harder and harder to keep secrets in our society

That motif seems to be permeating deeper and deeper into every aspect of modern life.

sandworm1014• 8 years ago

I went to law school with a former ER doctor. When a teenager (<16) would show up in labor, he said there was a 30% chance her child's father was her father too. The doctors duty was to the patient(s) and breaking up the family by reporting was not in her best interests. The prevalence of DNA tests is going to make such coverups impossible.

swiley• 8 years ago

It would be best if we could decouple documentation from prosecution. The fact that it isn’t is how you end up with situations like that where people can’t talk about rape.

dotancohen3• 8 years ago

How could he know that? Was he DNA testing every infant? Did the teen mother disclose this information? Did the [grand-]father?

Consumer DNA tests revealing misattributed parentage

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