Bribing maitre d' to skip the line

http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/2000s/2000/10/pocketful?printable=true

by howard_yeh • 16 years ago

529 177 16 years ago

gourmet.com

juanito• 16 years ago

Despite how effective this generally is, I feel dirty every time and I hate doing it.

drivingmenuts• 16 years ago

Seems unethical to me, strictly speaking.

Sure, everyone's doing it. Doesn't mean cheating someone else out of their fair share is right, though.

forensic• 16 years ago

it's not unethical. It's the market economy.

helmut_hed• 16 years ago

It's an interesting question, and to me a real ethical gray area. At my favorite bar, I usually tip very generously, and all the bartenders know me. I tend to get my first drink free, and if I stay for a while, often a shot with the bartender later. For those, I tip extra big - not quite, but almost, the cost of the drink. For a while I felt bad about "taking advantage" of the system. But in fact I think this is part of the system, because every bar needs regulars, and since people like me and I don't cause trouble, my patronage is useful even to the owners (though they may get less revenue from my drinks). I also think this may constitute a sort of perk for the bartenders - to be able to give free drinks to a limited number of friends probably makes them enjoy their job more. I do notice that after I get a free one the bartender makes some sort of note on a piece of paper near the register, so maybe this is an official part of the system.

I'm not sure if the restaurant business is the same, but I can imagine that the owners anticipate this sort of thing, and maybe even encourage it, since it means their employees get more money and might be happier as a result.

But yeah, it doesn't seem particularly fair, at least the way I was raised to think of it.

sp3323• 16 years ago

"Fair share"? As if each person deserves to be served? Talk about a sense of entitlement. The restaurant will serve whomever it likes. You wouldn't think it unethical for the restaurant to give regulars a friendlier smile, or a specific table they like? If you have a personal relationship with someone, no matter how tenuous, they will give you better service. It's not "cheating." Especially for busy restaurants, there is no reason for them to serve an "average" customer and ignore a "good" customer.

scott_s9• 16 years ago

Why do you find it unethical? I'm not being glib. You can see why I don't find it unethical in posts below.

BrandonM• 16 years ago

Everyone else waits a few extra minutes, but meanwhile the maitre d's work income is vastly improved while you get a quick seat for a fee. In the end, the net effect on society is probably neutral at worst. At best, no one else even notices and both you and the maitre d' have a great night.

btmorex• 16 years ago

The effect on society can be much, much worse than neutral. If it happens enough, all of sudden it's expected and then people will start intentionally delaying service/making it difficult unless you pay them. (for reference, see any country with petty corruption/bribery problems)

What's the difference between this and say slipping the building inspector a hundred dollars to "not have any problems"?

chailatte• 16 years ago

the article is from October 2000. The restaurant business is so bad right now that there is absolutely no need to bribe.

I am traveling to Chicago and NY on Jetblue's all you can fly. Alinea had a few openings that I was able to squeeze in over the phone. I was changing Daniel and Jean Georges's appointments many times with no problem.

aditya• 16 years ago

Take the same advice, and apply it to clubs/lounges. Or, anywhere there is more demand than supply.

e1ven• 16 years ago

http://nymag.com/nymetro/shopping/features/9939/

http://www.chow.com/food-news/54576/will-this-20-change-your...

http://www.esquire.com/features/ESQ0303-MAR_20DOLLARS

driverdan• 16 years ago

I remember reading the Esquire article when it was first published. A little money can go a long way when timed correctly.

Elite• 16 years ago

I read the esquire articles and the chow.com, and neither of these authors really perfected the art. Although the self-titled $20 millionaire occassionally got serviced, he was often punked because he had no style, no swagger.

And when he DID get service, he did it openly & brazenly without the required discretion. Publicly announcing in a first class airplane section that he wanted to trade seats?! Tacky. Cutting the line at a cab stand, only to end up having to pay not only the front customer, but also the 2 cab stand guys? Buddy, that just cost you sixty bucks and a half cup of coffee thrown at your cab.

The demeanor and style in which you execute the handoff matters just as much, if not more than the actual note you've got in your hand.

lionhearted• 16 years ago

I was reading Aristotle's Nichomachean Ethics, and he talks about being liberal and magnificent with money. I'm in Vietnam now, things are cheap-ish anyways, so I decided I'm make the transition towards doing that. I wrote up my first experiences here -

http://www.sebastianmarshall.com/?p=161

Since then, it's been even more crazy. I was just trying to be gracious - I wasn't trying to bribe for favors like the author of the gourmet.com piece. Just either before or after I get service, tipping more. Result is staggering to me - people start working for you. I wasn't asking anything in return, but I'm now getting informed on all sorts of little details, recommendations, little extra services here and there. In the changing room of the place I go to get a massage, the guy there is like my intelligence agent now. As I was getting changed back into street clothes after getting a massage, he says, "Psst - hey, next time... go with locker #1." He taps the locker. He explains, "Very pretty, young girl. Best girl here." Apparently the experience is streamlined by number the whole way through - locker number, who you are massage therapist is, and billing for tips/coffee/extra food or drink you order is all tied together. He also shined my boots and he's super friendly helping me put a robe.

It's strange, I came from pretty humble origins so this is all very new for me. I just thought I should start being good to people and taking care of people, and I'm kind of taken aback by how gracious people are. It's still against my nature to over-tip, I came up pretty frugal and had literally no money for large portions of my life, but I'm starting to see the value of really taking care of people. There's a security guard near where I live who I'm friendly with, I'm going to go buy him a tuna sandwich next time I'm buying stuff at the bakery. I think, just like that, I'll go from having a friendly acquaintance to having a guide and intelligence agent.

That's not even why I do it. I thought - give back, spread money around a little bit, take care of people. But people seem to really want to take care of you when you do. It's like you're signalling that you're a person who takes good care of people or some such. I don't know, still very new to me. It's interesting though.

diN0bot• 16 years ago

i think what you're doing is great, so don't take my hypothesis the wrong way:

i have a dog and i live with 8 other people, so i have a bit of data on 8 different dog-human relationships. it boils dog to the dog treating everyone differently depending on who gives him food. P always give dog his sandwich crusts without asking anything in return, so when P walks in the door with a subway, dog goes grazy. in fact, P started giving more when dog wimpered, so for a little while dog whimpered until i made P not be such a sucker. A always lets dog lick his plates, so dog gets excited when A finishes eating. L requires dog to lie down in a neighboring room, so dog beg's from neighboring room when L eats. it's not love or care, it's simple causation and reward. dog constantly tries different tactics on those people who give him food. often, the amount of food escalates.

btw, dog goes crazy when the (human) dinner bell is rung.

edit: also, in restaurants, bribing before is a bit like tipping afterwards. the wait staff is constantly evaluating how much effort to expand on incoming parties (among other things) in order to maximize tips. in light of that, treatin an apparently wealthy couple well in hopes of a good tip isn't unreasonable. as for accepting bribes...depending on the place it's not that different from a tip except that it comes before not after the service (some places split tips with the whole staff, including say back waiters, etc, so then it might be immoral if the people keep the bribe for themselves. as for the immorallity of "jumping" the queue--for all i know, the wait staff does that anyway when they evaluate how much people can tip....)

whatusername3• 16 years ago

Can I just warn you that our dog always ate the scraps (and too much of them) and ended up with Diabetes. (Such a first world problem I know). Having to give her 2 insulin injections a day was not very fun (or cheap).

stonemetal• 16 years ago

Kind of reminds me of a friend who worked in sales. Whenever he was going to take a client to a restaurant he would always go to the restaurant the day before find a waiter who was going to be there during the lunch meeting and tip heavily so as to be sure of good service during the working lunch.

noodle2• 16 years ago

its surprising how quickly people go out of their way to be friendly and helpful to you when you're a model customer. and i mean model as someone who is easy, friendly, regular, and consistently tips.

most service industry people can't outright reject customers without a really good reason, so if you can make someone's day easier, they'll typically reciprocate it.

megablast2• 16 years ago

Yes, a model customer is also someone who never complains no matter how bad the service is, and how bad the staff screw up.

That is not the best way to go about things.

I have also seen the best service going to those who make the most amount of noise, who shout the loudest, and cause the most amount of trouble, since no one wants to upset that person. And I have seen model customers ignored over this person, since they will not complain.

It is not as simple and gracious a system as you suggest.

Yzupnick2• 16 years ago

The truth is I'm not sure how the financial markets work in Vietnam, but in most Western Countries your dollar probably goes further when it comes to helping people out sitting in the bank than over-tipping and being kind to people.

Granted it is probably good for you psychologically to form these relationships of mutual kindness, and to see yourself putting a smile on someones face on a daily basis. But in terms of "Giving back" and "spreading the money around", keeping your money in the bank is probably a better move.

Again this is based on my limited understanding of the financial system in western countries and of economies. It is very likely that my understanding of economics is flawed and/or my comparison of Vietnam to the US is a bad comparison. If so, ignore everything I said.

nl2• 16 years ago

I assume you are talking about the credit creation cycle (if not, then please explain your logic?)

I think this depends on your definition of "goes further"

While credit creation may create more value (measured in dollars) than tipping/gifts/charity, the opposite may be true if you measure in terms of numbers of people helped. Many people who are helped by tipping are service workers who don't have easy access to credit.

holdenc• 16 years ago

I live in Southeast Asia as well, and there is a strong sense of reciprocity here (and no expectation of tipping) so if you do decide to tip, the obligation to repay will be very apparent.

zackattack• 16 years ago

I would guess that it's due to the collectivist culture and value on collaboration that inspires active triggers of reciprocity circuits

afterburner• 16 years ago

They're motivated by future tips, and by the extra opportunities they'll get from forwarding your generous business to people they know. The incentive is your money.

dkarl• 16 years ago

I had already learned a number of lessons. First: Go. You’d be surprised at what you get just by showing up. Second: Dress decently. Third, and most important: Don’t be ashamed. They’re not, and neither should you be.

I see. If people go along with what you suggest, you don't have to feel ashamed about it. So this guy has no interest in right or wrong at all; he just doesn't want to feel embarrassed. I'm sure this guy will enjoy a lot of loyalty and support when the chips are down.

donohoe2• 16 years ago

Related, but unrelated - this is some advice for events like weddings or any open bar where there is a crowd (think SXSW).

Go to the bar early. Talk to the bartender, take $20 out of your pocket and tell him/her/them:

"Hey, this is for you. I don't have change and I want to tip, and I have no idea how much I'll actually drink... Thanks!"

I started doing this because I used to bartend and a lot of people skimp on tips at events or just don't have change at a cash-bar (who has a stack of $1 bills on-hand?). Its extra effective if there is a no-tipping policy.

The result: You'll always get a drink ahead of everyone else, especially when it gets a little crazy. They usually start pouring what you last ordered when they see you approaching.

Also, if there are more than one person it helps to have the conversation within ear-shot of any other bartenders. Feel free to introduce yourself too and give your name. Most 'drinkers' are meatheads so you stand out further.

RK2• 16 years ago

I was recently at a conference reception where each person was given two drink tickets. My friend and I went up for our first drink and my friend tipped the bar tender well. The rest of the night that same guy just kept handing him his tickets back...

leif• 16 years ago

I had a similar experience. I went to an open bar birthday party, where with a particular wristband you could get unlimited drinks. I ordered something simple, and tipped a dollar, came back once, and did the same thing. The next time I came over, the same bartender made a beeline for me and started pouring two drinks before I got all the way up to the bar. Another dollar. Now I had two drinks and only two hands, so I gave the second to a friend, and found myself with an order for four drinks from some friends who noticed my speed of service. Somehow she heard this, and had two of them mixed by the time I got back to her.

infinite8s• 16 years ago

What is considered a good tip for a drink?

eof2• 16 years ago

I played poker a lot for a couple years and would routinely drop 'quarters' (25 bucks) to runners on busy nights to skip the line. Considering my hourly rate was just under $100/hour saving an hour+ wait on a Friday night was a bargain.

note: Most casinos you would be tipping the 'floor' not the runners, but in this particular one the chip runners were doing the seating.

chevas• 16 years ago

Wildly entertaining read.

acabal• 16 years ago

Interestingly, this sometimes works the other way around too. I frequented a coffee shop in my town for a few months (I later moved house). The baristas came to recognize my face, even though I didn't make smalltalk or introduce myself. I would come in, order a coffee, and work on their wifi for a few hours before leaving, more or less every other day.

One day the barista recognized me and said, "this coffee's on the house." I was stunned--stuff like that usually doesn't happen to me because I'm usually fairly quiet when it comes to interacting with service people. Grateful, I put the money I would have spent on the coffee into the tip jar instead.

Over the course of the next month the barista would occasionally offer free coffee again. The cup of coffee costs them cents, but it brightened my day so much that I actually started tipping (for the first time at a coffee shop, ever) regularly.

So in effect, for the cost of a "bribe" (a few cups of coffee to me), the barista had established a relationship that made me feel like reciprocating with cash.

BobbyH2• 16 years ago

If you think about it, it is economically rational behavior for a barista/bartender to do this for regular customers. After all, she gives you a drink that is free to her and gets back real money as a tip. The only loser is the coffee shop or bar, who has trouble tracking the number of drinks served.

My friend runs a bar and this is a huge problem for him that he calls a "bribe back". The only solution he found is hiring good people, as monitoring the bartenders makes him look like he doesn't trust or respect them.

illumin8• 16 years ago

Yeah, this is a huge problem. I was on a business trip once and eating dinner at the bar of TGIFridays. I normally wouldn't eat at a chain restaurant like that, but I was in Virginia and there was nothing nearby.

In any case, these college kids were sitting at the bar next to me, and we started talking. They seemed to be friends with the bartender and one of the told me "give the bartender a $20 and you'll drink all night for free." This was a Friday and I was stuck in VA for the weekend, with my hotel across the street so I was like, OK. Anyway, I slipped the bartender a $20, and he proceeded to make all kinds of drinks for us. He was using the top shelf liquor, not the well drink stuff, and he was making all kinds of custom martinis, shots, etc. We literally finished well over $200 worth of drinks in the space of a few hours. When the check arrived, it only had my meal on there, and all the drinks were missing.

Essentially, the bartenders gave us about $200 worth of drinks and we only paid for our meals, plus $20 each in tips (there were 4 of us).

If I owned that TGIFridays somewhere in VA, I'd be seriously worried about how much money my bartenders were stealing from me. It is literally stealing when a bartender can make an extra $100-200 a night just by slipping free drinks to his friends. I guess the markup is so much on alcohol that most people wouldn't notice.

dandelany• 16 years ago

Yes, it's economically rational for the barista/bartender, but it's not necessarily bad business for the bar/coffeeshop either. If the bartender is smart about when and how often she hands out these freebies, she can convert one-time or occasional customers into loyal, regular customers, which is much better for the bar in the long run.

It reminds me of the Apple store - 9 times out of 10, if you go in there with something broken that's out of warranty, you have to pay the full price to repair it. However, Apple geniuses are given a little bit of leeway, and often offer "unnecessary" free out-of-warrany replacements that, while costly to Apple in the short-term, generally pay handsome returns in the long run by encouraging loyalty.

jamesbritt• 16 years ago

'My friend runs a bar and this is a huge problem for him that he calls a "bribe back". The only solution he found is hiring good people, as monitoring the bartenders makes him look like he doesn't trust or respect them.'

Back in my bar-hopping days I learned about buy-backs. I was surprised the first time it happened, but it was explained that this was common thing (at least if you drink enough).

Given that it was apparently common knowledge in the bar culture, I'd have to believe that anyone running a bar knows this is happening and either makes some educated guesses on the amount, or simply has the bartenders do some tracking. It seems like just part of doing business and sales, nothing underhanded.

Broadly speaking, it seems a businesses will have trouble keeping customers if the owner or manage does not give the line people authority (within some bounds) to give stuff away. I've mainly seen this in the hotel business. You can keep a customer, and make them want to come back, by smoothing over a complaint with a comp'ed night or free meal, and the win to the hotel is terrific (it's expensive to get new customers vs. keeping them). But if the restaurant manager or front desk staff has to first get the OK from the head of F&B or the Front Office manager it tends to just not happen because people are afraid they'll get in trouble for doing what is arguably right and in the long-term interest of the business.

blhack3• 16 years ago

I hope your friend also understands how much this will get people like me to come back.

There is a bar in Phoenix that I used to go to all the time (when the weather calms down, I'll start going again [because I bike there]). One of the major reasons that I went back so often, is because I felt like a regular there. It was a very common occurrence for the bartenders to offer me a free drink. A lot of these free drinks were beer that had been poured wrong, or stuff that they would have had to pour down the drain, but not all of them.

This is something I think a lot of people don't understand (not saying your friend, just in general); when you own a business, you're not selling widgets, you're selling customer service. I wasn't going to the bar to buy beer, I was going because one of the bartenders looked at me one night (I was feeling down about something) and said "Dude, what's wrong?" and tried to cheer me up...or another night when another bartender didn't charge me the $10 that they usually charge for growlers (a glass chug that holds 1 gallon of beer and is for transporting it home [common at breweries that don't bottle their beer])...

All in all, that place has probably given me 10 beers for free; at most $20 worth of product. But that $20 has probably come back to them 10-100 fold in the last couple of years. I'd say about half of my family's birthdays now take place at that bar, (I've taken my sisters and my mom there, they all love it, it really really is truly unlike any other restaurant I've been to in Phoenix), as well as most of my friends. I've recommended it to literally hundreds of people.

Contrast this with a bar in Tempe where I took a visiting friend for drinks: the bartender didn't want to talk to us and, when we asked him why he was using a jigger to measure the mixed drink that my friend ordered (it was taking a long time and we said something to the effect of "We really don't care about the measurements being that exact") he explained how close of an eye the managers keep on the alcohol shrinkage.

Another story for me is dell: when I call dell, I talk to Lisa, who remembers my name, remembers where I live (Phoenix) and remembers the time that her and her husband came here to visit...and how nice the weather was. "Is that place on scottsdale road that sells the ice cream still there?"

Artificial as I'm sure all of this is (Lisa probably has a computer that remembers this stuff for her), I like it. I like going into a coffee shop and feeling like the owner of the shop is a friend of mine and I'm just coming over to his house to hang out (there was a coffee shop in Des Moines, IA; 3 years after I moved away, I came back to have to have the owner greet me with "RYAN!?! Where the hell have you been!? Has the band been on tour or something? [the first time I went into his shop I had a DW drums tshirt on. The joke from then on was that I was a famous drummer]).

I think it's important for business owners to remember this type of thing: you're absolutely not selling coffee, or beer, or dell computers, you're selling me a little temporary friend that makes me feel like they really and truly care about whatever problem I am coming to them to solve.

kevingadd• 16 years ago

Growing up, I rarely was in a situation to tip, but these days, living near Palo Alto, i've noticed something interesting:

out of the places I go to eat or get coffee, a few are small independent businesses owned by locals. At the ones where I was getting consistently good service, I started tipping 20%+. Within a few weeks of this, I was surprised to notice that they began discounting my food and drinks without mentioning it, and they were more likely to remember my name and what I usually order. The result is that other than the money I spent tipping more initially, this improved service doesn't cost me anything.

RK2• 16 years ago

I think a very common tip increasing strategy used by people serving food is to give discounts. If I'm selling you something for $10 and you'd normally tip $1 and I give it to you for $8, you are much more inclined to tip me $2-3, because you'd still pay the same or less and received "special" service.

This of course may be unethical for the employee, depending on store policy. My best friend falls for it every time, tipping back up to "full" price. I see it as a type of scam against the employer, though.

lotusleaf1987• 16 years ago

When I worked at a steakhouse the smart servers would never charge for sodas or extras like baked potatoes, rice etc. Because as soon as the person got the bill, whatever amount was discounted almost always was directly added onto the tip amount. It might be bad for the restaurant for their soda/potatoes/rice, but that stuff costs as close to nothing as you're going to get.

compay• 16 years ago

> I see it as a type of scam against the employer, though.

That's definitely sometimes true. But it depends - when I was in college I used to go to a bar (Redbones in Somerville, MA) where the owner had a policy of letting the bartenders offer a certain number of free drinks and appetizers to favored customers at their discretion. He did this because he said it meant more loyal customers, which helped both him and his employees. I definitely spent a lot of money in that bar and always tipped heavily because of the great service. Despite all the freebies I got, I'm sure they turned a well-deserved profit off my business.

sambe• 16 years ago

The danger with tactics like this is that the customers don't overthink tipping as much as the service staff, particularly if they are from a different country/culture. I tried to tip about $1/drink in New York, but when I got a free drink ("for being stuck" - volcano) I didn't know whether I was expected to tip the value, tip a little extra, or just take it as a favour. I would guess that on a bill, rather than a free drink, there's a good chance that people don't realise as well.

eof2• 16 years ago

This is officially sanctioned at the coffee shop I frequent. I used to often get free coffee because I am good friends with a lot of the employees, and when wasn't free it was usually someone new I didn't know or $1 (from 1.65).

The owners a couple years ago put a lock down on all the free coffee going out of the place but encouraged the employees to give discounts to their friends.

It actually works out quite well, as the place can't afford to really pay any type of decent wage. The owners recognized that many people (myself included) would simply stop going to said shop everyday if coffee went from free to 1.65 or 1 to 1.65. I would still go sometimes, but it's not like they are going to see an immediate 65% increase on that revenue if people stop giving away the coffee.

At the same time, it allows the workers to get a couple extra bucks an hour and allows them to retain a number of really good employees while paying a wage <$10 an hour.

kenver• 16 years ago

I used to do something similar when I was a student and getting my haircut! I'd ask for my student discount, then tip and make up the difference and give it straight to the girl who cut my hair. I got some good haircuts back then.

euroclydon4• 16 years ago

I guess this isn't quite like the experiences I've had, where you have a reputation of tipping well, and all of the sudden items are missing from your bill. That's just an illegal transfer of wealth from the owner to the employee.

rjett• 16 years ago

I have a friend who used to approach concession stands at sporting events and ask the teenager behind the counter if he'd give him a free x,y, or z if he put $2 in their tip jar. This usually worked.

cellularmitosis2• 16 years ago

For me this issue isn't so black and white. If an engineer being paid $100k/yr pulled something like this, yes I'd say he's stealing from his employer. When someone making $2.85/hr does this, I'm not sure it's stealing. The employer has the ability to hire someone at an insulting wage, and the employee has the ability to make the situation a little more favorable for themselves.

gyardley4• 16 years ago

I don't get the bribe terminology at all - offering better service to people willing to pay more is a pretty standard form of price differentiation.

We certainly don't call it a bribe when a webservice charges more for faster responses to support requests or access to a dedicated rep. We don't call it a bribe when an airline charges more for more leg room. Why should we call it a bribe when the restaurant's maitre d' charges more for priority access to tables?

jpwagner• 16 years ago

seriously?

gyardley4• 16 years ago

Seriously. The maitre d' isn't a public official in charge of a public or legal duty - this isn't a building inspector we're talking about.

I suspect any bad feelings around tipping the maitre d' for a table come from lack of knowledge of the custom - someone who doesn't go to good restaurants regularly or is from another country where customs are different.

scott_s9• 16 years ago

I was curious, so I checked the dictionary definition (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bribe):

Definition of BRIBE

1: money or favor given or promised in order to influence the judgment or conduct of a person in a position of trust

2: something that serves to induce or influence

I think it's important to distinguish between uses 1 and 2. You're describing, and I've defended, use 2. As far as I'm concerned, use 2 is indistinguishable from paying more for something better. I still consider use 1 unethical, assuming that the person in a position of trust is supposed to treat everyone equally with no favoritism of any kind. I don't consider a maitre d' at a restaurant to be in such a position of trust.

gabrielroth• 16 years ago

Obviously, it's a bribe because it's pocketed by the employee rather than passed up to the employer.

gyardley4• 16 years ago

That's how front-of-house restaurant employees are predominantly paid in America.

scott_s9• 16 years ago

Employees take home tips, too.

MichaelApproved3• 16 years ago

Great article but I wanted to discuss how the link is to the print page where there is no navigation, ads or ability to see other content. I suggest the ?printable=true be removed from the url out of respect for the content providers.

A lot of time and money goes into creating content. This is clearly a well written and interesting article since it's on top of hacker news right now. Why screw the website out of the extra traffic to it's other pages and possible ad revenue by linking to the printable version?

I can understand not liking ads but this site isn't a content farm with tons of ads. There is only a tiny, handful of ads on the right with plenty of room for the content.

Sure, people on hacker news know enough to change the url if they want to explore the rest of the site but articles that become popular here also get picked up by other services with less savvy users.

gojomo• 16 years ago

The site could easily prevent deep-links to print versions if they cared. If they don't care, why should we?

winthrowe• 16 years ago

If there's a 'display as single page' rather than a print option, I'll recieve an add impression for most sites posted here, and might like the nav tools, but if it's 'print version' or page through a half dozen pages, I'll take print every time.

MichaelApproved3• 16 years ago

Fair point. Paging through is a pain and annoying to the reader.

chunkbot• 16 years ago

If there's a "single page" option, I prefer that to "printable". I don't mind ads, but I hate to click through three pages just to read an article.

MichaelApproved3• 16 years ago

It's surprising the divide that exists within the HN community. You have a lot of entrepreneurs who try to make successful companies based on free content and another side that can't stand those people. Or at least it seems that way based on the way this article is submitted, downvoted comments and general comments posted on the site.

Someone creates good content and we're almost punishing them for it. Yes, paging is annoying but is it such an offense that we remove the ability for the site owner to monetize the content?

ay• 16 years ago

I would not mind paying some 15-20 cents for the experience of reading a good article in a single plain page, ad-free - if this was given as an option to tip the writer (as opposed to paywall).

If a mechanism existed to part with those 20 cents without a bigger pain than that of a click.

smoody• 16 years ago

someone posts this every six or eight months it seems. And every time it scores the poster hundreds of points. Still a good read. :-)

bryanh• 16 years ago

I thought the line "Bribing, it turns out, has as much effect on the briber as it does on the bribee" was particularly telling. I mean, bribing someone (successfully) touches on everything: a sense of exclusivity, an appearance of prominence, a seemingly meaningful interpersonal connection, and it streamlines the whole process. No wonder if feels so good...

mturmon• 16 years ago

It is an insightful line.

Partners in crime is the concept, though, I think. In this a very trivial "crime".

uxp• 16 years ago

The only "crime" that is broken is split between ethical and social.

Socially, if there is a line to get into a place or to receive something and you skip ahead of a hundred other people, then you're a jerk. Another point I can see is if by this article being published, more people start trying to bribe their way into restaurants, the people that already try to follow the standard rules get pushed further back in line. Bribing your way into some place shouldn't be the protocol for getting a seat. Only when "This is a really important night for me" is true should it be used. And if it successful, tip on the way out if the service was great. If you start acting like an ass, you're going to ruin it for the rest of us.

Ethically, its fairly weak. There might be rules and a code of conduct that the wait staff need to adhere to, and when offered cash to break them it may get them in trouble. Though, that is their problem for accepting it, but you should also respect those rules and not try to break them either.

_ouxp• 16 years ago

I first encountered this story when Steven Pinker retold it at an Authors@Google talk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBpetDxIEMU

About 40 minutes in, Pinker talks about the psychology, linguistics, and game theory of bribery and talks for a few minutes about the article.

zzzmarcus• 16 years ago

A common definition of intelligence, or at least part of the definition of intelligence, is "the general mental ability to learn and apply knowledge to manipulate your environment." I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that this type of tipping "hack" applies.

jon_dahl• 16 years ago

There is something similar with hotels, esp. in a place like Vegas: show $20/$50/$100 at check-in, and get an upgraded room. Google "twenty dollar trick".

Not that I've had the nerve to try it.

euroclydon4• 16 years ago

Saw it. I guess there is a disconnect between the rate charged and the room assigned in hotel management systems. I could fix that pretty quickly with a few queries.

nl2• 16 years ago

Your comment is a little unclear, but it appears you think room rates are fixed.

They're not at all - they vary pretty much the same way airline tickets do. Hotels are a bit less obvious about it because the often have display rates.

(Varying rates is especially common in places like Vegas where there is usually a huge oversupply of rooms, but hotels make money from other things, ie, gambling)

jdietrich• 16 years ago

> Increasingly, I was struck by how much impact the experience was having on me. Surmounting this challenge night after night was actually giving me a certain self-assurance, a feeling of having grown up. Some might find this disillusioning: “You mean life is not first-come, first-served?” I found I had a different reaction: “You mean all it takes to crack one of New York’s most daunting thresholds is fifty bucks?” Even if I chose not to do it on a regular basis, just knowing how doable it is brought the whole puffery of New York restaurants into perspective. Bribing, it turns out, has as much effect on the briber as it does on the bribee.

If you ever wanted to know why corruption is so entrenched in many parts of the world, there is your answer.

mikeknoop2• 16 years ago

An excellent point. Besides the inherent scale, what makes this author's experience different from a senator or representative who takes money in exchange for preferential treatment? Both screw over a number of people who are playing by the rules.

gaius• 16 years ago

That is the flipside of this. I have a friend who when he's staying at a hotel with his girlfriend always says "it's our anniversary" or "it's her birthday". It usually works but... Maybe they're in the bridal suite and 5 minutes later a real couple on their anniversary show up.

jafran• 16 years ago

Actually, I think this article made me realize that in any situation it is important to ask "what are the rules?". It's not like there is a sign posted above the door saying "do not tip for better seating". Who says it's wrong to tip for priority seating?

tamersalama• 16 years ago

Came here to say just that.

zem• 16 years ago

yeah, coming from india and having railed against the entrenched culture of bribery all my life, i felt slightly greasy after having read this

jdvolz• 16 years ago

Protip: it doesn't always have to be money.

In college I lived across the street from a art house movie theater. I was invited to the Thursday night after party by a guy who worked at the theater and another local establishment I frequented. Instead of money, I brought a giant bottle of liquor. Because that theater had a "friends get in free" policy and because I was now well known as the "guy who brought the liquor to the party" I was everyone's friend. I would bring 2-3 people with me to the theater, we'd all get in, and we'd all get employee servings of popcorn and soda. Best $20 I ever spent.

ErrantX• 16 years ago

This works varyingly well over here in the UK (bearing in mind that we have a lot less tip-focused service industry).

Obviously it works in top-class London restaurants. Anywhere else it tends to vary, I've tried it once in a semi-nice place in Leeds and got an icy stare and an extra wait :) but then it worked great in a grill house when I was in a rush with friends.

By the way; this is fun to do if you are with a group of friends who have never done it before. Once we were trying to eat in one of the London hotels (it was the nearest place and pay day :)) and obviously got rebuffed. It's really shallow but saying "hold on, wait here" and 30s later gesturing them over is worth the looks on your friends faces :)

The best place this has worked for me is a restaurant in a nearby town - not top class but always full. A few £20 "tips" now gets use pretty instant service - because they know we will tip decently afterwards.

Is it immoral etc? I've always thought not, it's just that I value getting a table X much and, most of the time, X is a steal price :)

alexophile• 16 years ago

Back in college, a buddy of mine worked as a doorman at what had become a reasonably popular bar (with >30k undergrads, they're all pretty popular) with a line down the block every Friday and Saturday. As a friend of the doorman, I would rarely have to wait in said line, but on one peculiar condition.

On such days when he was going to be working, he'd give me a $10 bill some time during the day. Later that night, I would wait until the line was good and long, and walk confidently up to the door. Upon arrival, I would hand him his $10 bill back and cruise on through, making sure the gesture was noticed by passersby.

Without fail, every time we pulled this little stunt, he would manage to make a decent haul off of people that were inspired by my brazen (though contrived) bribery. As far as I know, there was no real policy on the matter of bribing the doorman - the only real problem is having to fudge the occupancy for a few minutes - and for every incidental person over the limit, there was at least one outside smoking, so this was never a very worrisome problem.

ohashi• 16 years ago

That's clever. Sends a great signal to the right audience. May I ask if that's a common thing or if he came up with it?

hnal9432• 16 years ago

It's just like the loose change in the street musician's instrument case. They always start with a little of their own money in there because it helps people understand what's expected.

cellularmitosis2• 16 years ago

I have a friend who valet parks at an up-scale hotel, and over the years he's become pretty good at sizing up whether someone isn't aware that a tip is expected. So he's come up with a little code between his fellow employees. While the newb who doesn't know he's supposed to tip is waiting for his car, my friend loudly announces to a fellow employee as he hands him the keys to fetch some other customer's car "hey, he's already tipped, so he's good to go...". Without fail, the newb promptly pulls a $5 out of his pocket a few moments later...

tyng• 16 years ago

I had a similar experience a few years ago in London where the night clubs were well known for their strict enforcement of "no collar no entry" policy. I did remember to wear a shirt that night but forgot to carry my passport, and I was blocked by a sumo-looking security guard at the club door. Upon suggestion by a friend who lived in London for many years I slipped a £10 note under a random business card I found in my wallet (pretend to be a valid ID) and approached the security guard.

"Here's my ID" I said, and showed a tip of the note under the card. "Show me," said the security guard and casually took both the card and the money from my hand. After pretending to check the birthday details for 10 seconds he returned the card (but not the money) to me and said "have a good night!"

mattmaroon• 16 years ago

Rule #11, don't write an article about it. After this dropped bribing your way into the New York restaurant scene got really tough. Managers were very unhappy.

Confusion2• 16 years ago

That'll probably last only a few weeks. People will redirect their attention to more pressing matters soon enough.

Ayjay• 16 years ago

Looking at it from a market perspective, there is a limited supply of something (ie. seats at a table at a reasonable time), and a demand. It's then not a surprise that getting a table costs you more. The only surprising thing is that it seems suprising!

When there's a limited supply of anything, naturally the price will rise. In every other market, there is no benefit to being "first in line" for the product - the price is the price.

Why not have an auction system for getting tables? Whenever a table becomes free, the maitre d' asks everyone to bid on the table. If no-one bids, then whoever is first in line gets it. That seems like the fairest system - no-one can game the system by bribing because it's all completely open and honest.

Why don't any restaurants do this? As a bonus side effect, you'd probably attract the people with more money to spend, as they figure they can guarantee themselves a quick table. Also, this allows the people that really want to go to a restaurant to splurge on getting the first available table, while someone who doesn't really care might leave and go somewhere else.

Basic market forces causing the most optimal distribution of a limited resource.

-- Ayjay on Fedang

lelele3• 16 years ago

This is one of the HN's best thread ever. Thanks, thanks, thanks to everyone for sharing.

As Gabriele D'Annunzio used to say: "I own what I've given away."

jefffoster• 16 years ago

Link to previous discussion

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=318827

raghava• 16 years ago

Many comments speak of 'establishing a relationship' and 'getting an inside man'. Would it also not work the other way, in certain cases? Person A moves into a locality. Couple of days later visits a nearby restaurant. He is asked to wait; and he witnesses Person B flashing some greens (or blues, if on the other side of the planet ;) and getting in jumping the wait-list. Person C follows suit and does the same. Person A finds it insulting, and leaves. The establishment just lost a potential regular considering that he resides nearby.

Also, would service providers prefer a person who tips modestly (but consistently) over someone who tips generously once?

Sebastian's comment above mentions an experience in Vietnam. From what I have seen, in certain establishments/places in regions where stronger currencies (e.g. $/£) trump the local currencies (e.g. INR), it is not uncommon to find the local populace being treated with mild neglect in spite of them being(equally if not more) friendly and respectful; while a great deal of preference would be given to those who stand out in the crowd and can afford to tip more. (I know; many can sense a hint of racism being dragged in. But as unfortunately sad it is, it indeed happens at times. I hope visits to Mysore/Goa/Hampi can relate to this)

And about dressing, it reminded me of http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/hodja.html#eatcoat

tl:dr; Money speaks; nay, screams. We just have to get over this fact.

pjscott• 16 years ago

In the restaurants the articles describes, they can afford to alienate a few people. There will always be more people to replace them. It was written in New York when the economy was booming.

alexyim• 16 years ago

Here's another thread on HN:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=318827

Confusion2• 16 years ago

  And it hadn’t cost me a dime, merely the willingness to indicate that I
  would tip for service.

This is an interesting line, because it indicates the author redefined, in his mind, what he was doing: he wasn't bribing anyone, he was merely tipping beforehand. Suddenly, the practice seems much more acceptable, to the point where I wonder why I'm instinctively against it.

I guess the answer is that we should consider a stark difference between bribing someone for 'services' that aren't at his discretion to provide, such as a police officer dropping a bill or a government employee granting a permit, versus bribing someone for services that really are at the discretion of the person being bribed. The rules for being seated at these restaurants are informal rules and no laws are broken in bending them a bit.

As a result of this article, I feel much less unfavorably about 'bribing' random personnel of companies. I wonder how long that will last.

SebMortelmans• 16 years ago

In Vegas where at check-in, if you slide a 20$ bill with your CC & passport and ask for "any complementary upgrades", you can get a free room upgrade. If you do a quick search you'll notice how common this trick is, and the success rate for most hotels is in the 80-90% region.

Aegean• 16 years ago

My girlfriend looks at me in a way she hasn’t since I surprised her by uncharacteristically demolishing a friend on the tennis court.

That should have been fun.

Bribing maitre d' to skip the line

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