Parents are exhausting their children. An eighth-grade boy explains how

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2017/10/20/parents-are-exhausting-their-children-an-eighth-grade-boy-explains-how/

by MilnerRoute • 9 years ago

81 92 9 years ago

washingtonpost.com

tyingq• 9 years ago

I don't get how this one anecdotal example of bad parenting is suddenly worthy of broad attention.

Is there a tie to this being common or widespread that I missed?

Knufen• 9 years ago

''While this scenario obviously doesn’t apply to all kids, it does to plenty of them, and Wiseman wants parents who see themselves in this to take note''

I think the pressure kids and teenagers feel in modern society is worthy of discussion

mjevans• 9 years ago

I think everyone feels pressured, and not in the same ways. Not just teens or adults.

My personal experience growing up and living in a 'Western' society is that we're collectively very bad at empathy and empathizing. It is not obvious that people understand each other; lacking the full context of knowing the ambitions, desires, loathings and fears an individual has. There is no time, common social etiquette, or polite way of limiting parts of interactions that are too sensitive in that moment.

It is so pervasive that many movies have these issues as critical dependencies that enable the actual plot. (Often in the form of; keep a secret from family/loved ones to protect them)

germinalphrase• 9 years ago

It's still anecdotal - but as a high school teacher I'm seeing/hearing increasing reports of anxiety in my district and neighboring districts. Other things seem to be on the decline (teen pregnancy, alcohol use) - but anxiety seems to be on a steady upswing, unfortunately.

yeukhon• 9 years ago

Oh very very very very common. I am being serious here. I can only vouch for HK and mainland China since I am familiar with them (I was born and raised in HK foe the first twelves years of my life). Since I left HK in 2003, the competitiveness is driving students hopeless. Since 2015, September 1 (first day of school), 74 students have committed suicide, many were just elementary school students. [1]

“贏在起跑線” is a popular phrase in HK, which means “win with a head start”. After primary school (elementary school), students can graduate into its primary school’s linked/sibling secondary (middle school) under the 一條龍學校 “through-train” policy without going through a lottery system. As you can guess, “through-train” [2] schools are extremely popular (many are considered the elite schools in HK), so popular they require interview for admission. For better chance, these little kids need to speak English, know a sport or two, and perhaps play an instrument. Parents also have to make themselves “good”, and perhaps will move the family close to the school for the zone bonus point (going to catholic school as catholic gets an extra point).

You think that’s insane? For the next 16, 17 years these poor kids will have multiple extracurricular classes (some reported they have ten...). Playtime is pretty much non-existent. Parents pay thousands of dollars to get their kids to join a NASA summer program, or go on a Japan/Korea summer exchange program.

That’s not it. More comprehensive exams all the way till high school. The final exam, known as DSE [3] is required for university admission. For the elite world renown schools: University of Hong Kong, Chinese University of Hong Kong, and the Polytechnic University of HK, you must have be the best, especially for engineering and science majors. To get into the medical program, oh, you need to be the best of the best of the best.... since not everyone will be admitted a university, students still have to compete for getting into a college for an associate degree program (I believe like UK, since HK education system was created based on UK’s, college and university are not synonym in HK). But seriously, getting into high education is just tough both academically and financially. Without a scholarship, most families will end up in a big debt (HK’s income equality is really bad.)

About a year ago or so, on a reality show, a mom said because one of the best kindergartens in her district would accept ten students born in January, so she had to coordinate with her husband when to have unprotected sex so that her child could become a January baby. This anecdotal created the phase “贏在射精前”, basically means to give your child advantage over others, you as parents now have to plan before getting pregnant (or in the literal term above, before ejaculation”. [4]

The truth is parents in the western countries are also beginning to plan ahead, since research suggests that playing music during pregnancy can help brain development in the unborn child. In Chinese, we called this phenomenon 贏在子宮裡（head start inside the womb).

What I have just told you is beyond tiger mom. It’s basically living in ancient Sparta. I am just happy I moved to US so I could avoid all the above. I did end up winning the lottery, and got admitted into a “specialized” secondary school with emphasis on English-based teaching (most core classes are taught in English rather in Cantonese).

[1] http://m.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/2049167/pr...

[2] http://www.edb.gov.hk/en/edu-system/primary-secondary/applic...

[3] http://www.scmp.com/comment/letters/article/2085360/dse-exam...

[4] http://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/1980857/...

subwayclub2• 9 years ago

The Silicon Valley Suicides - Why are so many kids with bright prospects killing themselves in Palo Alto? (2015)

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/12/the-sil...

Contemporary schooling in the US can vary from school-to-prison in poorer neighborhoods, to academic pressure cookers that appeal to demanding parents by promising that their boy or girl will "be successful".

mquander• 9 years ago

Of course our kids need to do their chores and homework.

Citation needed.

coreyp_1• 9 years ago

I upvoted this comment because it was the first thing today ( a stressful day, I might add) that has made me laugh.

ramy_d• 9 years ago

I think it's also a legit question.

zzalpha2• 9 years ago

Seriously?

Yes, kids need to learn that responsibility sometimes means doing what we don't want to do, often as part of caring for others.

That's called growing up.

Then again, given the number of "adults" I've met that don't know how to cook or do laundry for themselves, or gripe if they have to sacrifice their own time or energy in service of others, perhaps I shouldn't be surprised by this comment...

osrec• 9 years ago

The language used in the letter seems to be written by an exceptionally gifted 8th grader. I'm from the UK, so I'm not sure what the standards are like in the US, but I would be surprised if many 14 year olds in the UK could write a letter of that quality - it makes me a little suspicious as to whether the letter is in fact genuine. Either way, pushy parents are creating unreasonable expectations and anxiety for their children. Kids in large developing countries seem to get the worst of it, where competition and expectations are both off the charts.

cosarara97• 9 years ago

The boy really spends all day studying, so in the end he got good at writing.

justinjlynn3• 9 years ago

If they're suitably motivated opportunities exist for early escape.

geetfun• 9 years ago

Yes, there really are some extremely articulate 8th graders. In my youth, I spent every week writing 3-4 essays (about 1000 words each) just for fun. I really did enjoy it. Needless to say, I had no problems with the "regular" English courses. Some people enjoy sports. Others... writing.

erdojo3• 9 years ago

The letter from the kid is full of manipulations. "Seven straight houses of cognitive exercises"? Is that supposed to be code for SCHOOL?

Sorry, maybe the parents are putting too much stress on him for the test, but otherwise do your chores and homework before you play video games (which is what he really wants the hour for).

justinjlynn3• 9 years ago

Yes, what do you think school is? It's not easy, nor is it a social holiday. Chores are fine, but, if your child can manage their time don't handicap them with micromanagement. If you want respect, you have to grant it where it is deserving.

erdojo3• 9 years ago

First world problems.

Thriptic• 9 years ago

If someone told me I had to clock a 8 hour day, come home and do several hours more work, and then do a bunch of menial labor five days a week I would be annoyed too. It is totally reasonable for someone to be irked when they are given no autonomy at any point during a day.

JustSomeNobody• 9 years ago

Don’t be a parent. :)

You have to cook, wash dishes, wash clothes, make sure everyone gets baths, etc, etc. Help with homework, etc. A whole bunch of post 8 hour work day labor.

erdojo3• 9 years ago

School is maybe 3-4 periods of "cognitive load" with one period of PE and another that's something more fun, plus lunch, plus breaks. I'm not opposed to giving the kid quiet time each night, but he can finish his homework and do his chores beforehand.

devereaux3• 9 years ago

As a kid I spend my weekends and my summers doing nothing.

"Nothing" was in the perspective of adults of course. Nothing they wanted me to do.

To me, doing nothing meant reading all the books I could find, exploring some random subject and if it was fun, experimenting with it, randomly.

One year I found a chemistry book. I started reading it and wondering what happens when I mix this and this chemicals? And I did, and oh what a pretty color! But why? Can I predict the outcome of mixing these chemicals? If I let the residue dry, does it burn? It doesn't, but then why is the flame blue when I use copper, red when I use iron?

Another year I found an electronic book. Yet another, it was an old book about Basic. After that, many of my summers were spent learning about computers and programming languages, which lead me to where I am now.

I don't think I would have done any of this if I had been exhausted by exams, chores etc.

thegabez2• 9 years ago

This is not the typical behavior of a teenager.

thriftwy3• 9 years ago

Actually it is. All the wonders we did when we could put our hands on some calcium carbide...

devereaux3• 9 years ago

Behavior is influenced by environments. Kids have a natural proclivity to experiment with things -- innovate, regardless of the circumstances. Have you never noticed? However, they are not very often left free to innovate.

Someone mentioned their kid spent too much time playing videogames. I did too. After I finally got a computer, someday I found this old game called Doom 2. I spent months with it, as it was so smooth on my low end computer. Then I got bored, but I discovered I could create my own levels! I had nothing to model, so I created a level based on my school. I didn't have maps of anything, but my school was easy to remember as I went there every day.

Now imagine any of this is a modern context - a teenager doing nothing, mixing and burning random chemicals to see what happens, and finally not just playing "violent" videogames, but making one replicating the school floor plan!! I would be certainly labelled a menace to society!!

The environment influences behavior of kids and most of the time, I think it exerts a negative influence. I believe in free time, and being non judgemental. Everyone has to figure out their own path in life.

dragonwriter• 9 years ago

It may not be the most typical, but it's certainly within the range of common behavior patterns.

thegabez2• 9 years ago

The way that 8th grader writes, I'd say his parents are giving him a gift he yet realizes the value of.

carb• 9 years ago

I don't think the gift is worth the tradeoff. There are many ways to help your child become a better writer without selfishly burdening them with chores and more stress.

eropple• 9 years ago

How do you figure? I wrote like that in eighth grade. I wrote like that because I read a lot and interacted with people who challenged me intellectually ("on the internet, nobody knows you're twelve even when you're arguing with them")--which homework never did until college.

Teichopsia• 9 years ago

Five comments so far and the opinions are on both ends. Do keep in mind that there have been many articles touting how man X hours one can be productive. It is not only, what, 7 hours or so at school doing work, but the time before to wake up, get ready, commute, school, commute back. Then home, homework and chores. They are children. If we are "complaining" as adults about about workload.... you get the idea.

vacri• 9 years ago

Teenagers are minors, but not "children". Painting them as "children" leads to silly things like a 16-year-old being considered a child right up until birthday 17, at which point they can join the army.

Holes appear in the story in the article when things like "seven straight hours" - do kids not get lunch or recess breaks anymore? It's clear the teen is overstating the case to make it sound worse. That doesn't mean there's no problem to address, but I wouldn't take the statement on face value. I'm also not sure I'd take that letter as typical (for an adult, let alone a young teen), given the quality of the prose.

cududa7• 9 years ago

Recess isn't a thing in high school. Most lunches are squeezed in 30-45 minute periods where they often are studying or doing homework. At my high school we got 25 minutes of lunch, including time to get to the cafeteria and back to class

cyberferret3• 9 years ago

Its all about a balancing act. My 14 year old son spends an inordinate amount of time gaming on his PC. We don't often chew him out for that, but when he ignores routine chores or homework assignments in preference for gaming, then we bring the hammer down.

The fact is, a lot of kids are terrible at time management and prioritisation. It is our job as parents to try and teach those skills. Quite often, that ends up with us having to excessively be the 'bad cop'.

As much as the kid in the OP's story eloquently described his pent up feelings, I can say that I experience the same sort of rage (complete with balled up fist) when I walk into the house to see an overflowing trash bin in the kitchen, dirty laundry scattered around the living room, front driveway still full of leaves (all my younger son's designated daily chores) and I hear the steady gunfire of CoD coming from his room.

bitL2• 9 years ago

The issue here might be overload of homework that kids have these days. Teachers are often literally going insane; you can see this at top universities and it's trickling down to elementary schools. Work like crazy, dread finals, do this till you die.

cyberferret3• 9 years ago

I totally agree that the homework load can be crazy. My son I mentioned above used to bring home an inordinate amount of homework a couple of years ago. But it seems that his school has seen the light, as we've noticed that he and his brother do have a much lighter daily homework load this year. But that seems to have been replaced with more longer term projects and assignments (all of which they leave till the last minute - ^sigh^)

cududa7• 9 years ago

Back when I was in middle school (11-13 years old) in the early 2000's our public school got tons of state funds for our "great performance". This led to teachers compensation being tied to said performance.

That meant each teacher would try and assign at least an hour of homework to stuff more and more into their students heads. The school had to implement a "maximum 4 hours of homework" policy. It didn't really do anything - teachers in different departments didn't coordinate. The next year they chose specific days teachers could assign homework...

Two years ago my younger cousin went to the same school - he caught mono and pneumonia, requiring a long stay at home. As a 13 year old he started getting anxiety attacks for fear of the compounding work.

Public schools are broken, and I don't think most parents realize the pressure put upon their children by teachers trying to get a bonus. All around a mess

jacobolus6• 9 years ago

14 year old kids used to spend tons of time playing outside unsupervised. Now they have a carefully choreographed schedule packed with structured supervised activities, an enormous pile of tedious homework, are not allowed to do anything mildly physically risky, and spend the remaining time sitting looking at a screen.

Raking leaves or doing laundry is fine as far as it goes, but isn’t going to fundamentally rebalance anything.

In my opinion kids that age (and especially younger) shouldn’t need to be experts at “time management”. They should just have engaging physical things to play with and a chance to learn about whatever happens to interest them.

tomohawk• 9 years ago

Part of being in a family is chipping in and doing what's required to keep the household going.

A key teaching for children is for them to understand that we show our love for one another by our actions and inactions.

cyberferret3• 9 years ago

Sorry, but I disagree with this. My son doesn't have any onerous 'structured supervised activities'. He mentioned from an early age that he hates team sports, so we have never pushed him to join a team or sports club of any sort.

Of late, he has signed up and been accompanying me to my Kendo lessons (his choice), which has been a good opportunity for some father/son bonding, and also a way for him to improve his fitness and mental discipline.

And that word 'discipline' is a key here. Chores aren't just about slave driving. I believe it is important for young kids to get used to a routine, and to learn that sometimes you have to do things even when it is not convenient. A well raked driveway (outside in the sunshine) should give him the satisfaction of a job well done at the end of it.

Plus it is also necessary, as my wife and I (and his brother) simply struggle to cope with the daily maintenance tasks around the house given our work lives. Him doing chores hopefully also will impart on him that managing a household take a lot of work, and I hope it also makes him see that my wife and I are not just house cleaning and meal preparing robots that just make things magically happen. We have the philosophy that we ALL chip in to make our house a nice place to live in.

zeta0134• 9 years ago

I think the trick with your 14 year old is the same lesson I eventually learned for myself when I was older. I didn't see the negative value of ignoring the chores until I branched out on my own. Immediately, I found myself in an apartment with 3 other roommates, and I was the only one who would do the dishes with any regularity. Those'll attract bugs real fast if they're just left out.

Trouble is, you already know this. You keep the house tidy because you're aware of the negative repercussions, but your kids maybe haven't figured that out for themselves to quite the same level. To them, a chore's a chore, and what Mom hasn't found out yet she can't get upset about. The immediacy of the task just isn't there.

What finally did it for me as an adult was the realization that my relaxation activities will always be there. The deadline I'm skipping out on won't be, and it looms over my head, threatening my sanity if it's not done. Once I do the task, or at least make some forward progress on it (no zero days) then I can allow myself to relax in peace, confident that I'm in a good place. I think that's the trick. Get your kids to feel good about having accomplished their day's duties with positive encouragement, and make sure they know that they can game in peace after that. That'll balance out the bad cop moments, and if you can spin game time as its own reward for the day's efforts, you might just be able to turn a negative habit into a positive one.

abhi3• 9 years ago

I'd upvote this 10-times if I could.

hourislate• 9 years ago

Kids today don't watch TV anymore. Their source of entertainment is gaming on the PC. My 14 year old plays every evening and is on Discord with his schoolmates (a group of about 4-6). At some point they pull out their homework and work on it together and chat, laugh, argue and discuss the school day. It's actually really nice to see them work and help each other. I would encourage all parents to have your kids setup Discord Channel for themselves and friends to do homework together.

agnivade2• 9 years ago

So, are you saying that if you come home to a clean living room, clean driveway and an empty trash bin, you will be happy and satisfied ?

I dunno, my mom always found something to yell at me. Irrespective of how hard I tried to please her. She told me it was for my own good.

rrggrr• 9 years ago

A mnemonic device I try to remember as a divorced parent is "SOS":

Self-awareness: What are my issues.

Objectivity: Am I projecting them on my kid.

Selflessness: Its tough being a child of divorce, what sacrifices can I reasonably make to give them as normal a life as possible?

But none of this impacts homework, which is mountains higher than I had as a child.

thriftwy3• 9 years ago

Why can't you just go through the assignments and decide which half your child doesn't have to do?

GlenTheMachine3• 9 years ago

One of my kids' guidance cousellors once said a very wise things to me:

“You know what makes me really excited about a job? Knowing that after spending eight hours a day at work, I have another three hours of overtime after dinner.”

Homework has generally been shown to not aid in learning. And as a parent I can guarantee that 90% of both of my childrens' homework assignments aren't really even intended to aid in learning. As far as I can tell, they're mostly useful as a way to sort top performers - being kids who not only understand the material, but who are both willing and able to jump through the necessary hoops - from everyone else.

I went to high school in a small rural area in the late 1980's. I had a maximum of one hour of homework a night. Often I was able to finish my homework on the bus home. I spent my free time teaching myself to code, something I wouldn't have been able to do otherwise.

I earned a PhD in aerospace engineering; I think I turned out OK, educationally.

Clubber• 9 years ago

I believe it's purpose is to reinforce the material. Having said that, our kid has 8-12 pages of worksheets to complete a week, and we have to fight her every night to get her to do it. It seems excessive to me for an elementary student. It reminds me of the saying, "kids are naturally curious and eager to learn until school beats it out of them."

GlenTheMachine3• 9 years ago

I believe the teachers think it's to reinforce the material. But much of the research says it's ineffective. AFAIK the research doesn't say why, exactly; but I would guess it has something to do with not being able to effectively engage in demanding intellectual pursuits for more than a few hours a day.

pier254• 9 years ago

I work at an education company doing tech. Our main product is an education system that goes from prefirst to high school (we're in Mexico so it's different here).

One of the principles of this system is that there should be as little homework as possible. We focus more on building cognitive skills.

Since this is radically different from classic education our biggest challenge is actually coaching and training the teachers.

perseusprime11• 9 years ago

Homework is not really the problem. Our bulky textbooks and overflowing amount of content in our curriculums is the real problem. Cut our curriculum to the most basic things and you will see everything falling into its place.

pier254• 9 years ago

Like I said the principle is focusing on building cognitive skills. Removing homework is a consequence of that.

As for the content in many cases it is becoming less relevant these days in the K12 segment. What remains later on in life are skills and not so much the content itself.

WalterBright2• 9 years ago

How do you build cognitive skills without doing work?

pier254• 9 years ago

The work is mostly done in the classroom.

There is also a bit of homework, but much less compared to public education or older methodologies. Everyone (students, parents, teachers) is surprised how well this works.

subwayclub2• 9 years ago

Feedback. Speed and clarity of feedback trumps effort in honing a skill. Note that parent didn't say "no work" but "no homework". Most forms of homework give unclear feedback to the student with few ways to check work before turning it in. I cannot count the number of times in middle and high school that I got a homework assignment with poor directions that was assigned the day before it was due, leaving no opportunity to correct course - just a lot of nervous "I guess this is what they want?" Hours and hours of time wasted on a concept that I might have actually understood how to apply but not how to present in the way they wanted.

giardini• 9 years ago

This kid has an anger problem, not necessarily a parent problem. Phrases such as "you want to throw something at them, to yell at them to simply leave you alone" and "hands curl into fists" are angry words. I find them shocking compared to how I felt about my parents. He speaks of "...parent[s] tell[ing] you to get off your ass and start doing something productive..." but both the manner and content of that phrase are over the top.

This child needs to learn to communicate how one feels and what has transpired during the day. Now if, when this happens, the parents respond with physical punishment, that is another story.

BTW he doesn't write particularly well.

Jyaif• 9 years ago

When your parents treat you like shit and that you know you'd be happier without them, you get angry at having to be around them.

Retric• 9 years ago

This is how 8th graders communicate. They really don't think or speak like adults.

It's very common for young males to be either have violent thoughts or be at least mildly depressed.

As to writing this representative of fairly average writing. http://www.oregon.gov/ode/educator-resources/assessment/Writ...

blatherard• 9 years ago

You're right that he's still just a kid, though I think he's in eighth grade, so roughly 13 years old rather than 8.

robteix• 9 years ago

Quick correction: he’s an eight-grader, not 8yo. An eight-grader is more like 13 or 14 years old.

k2xl• 9 years ago

What makes you say he doesn't write particularly well? Most 8th graders that I know don't write this well.

I personally thought he communicated very well how he felt and what transpired.

I also didn't get the impression that he is blaming his parents - or anyone really, I think he's blaming the system in general.

School is exhausting. Don't know about you, but when I got home from school I just needed an hour to unwind. Usually it was watching TV with my sister for an hour before starting homework.

Sure, some people may be wired differently and "suck it up" and just put up with it, but I think decompressing after a hard day of work is probably healthy.

cududa7• 9 years ago

It's the parents job to teach communication and facilitate discussion free of punishment, not the child's.

coryl• 9 years ago

I like how you deduced a psychological background profile and English writing analysis in one fell swoop.

brightball• 9 years ago

In high school, I looked at the beginning of each class to see how much homework counted. If it was about 5-6% or less, I didn’t do it.

To this day, don’t regret it even a little. The big projects I did. The busy work I skipped.

In college I actually dropped the same English class 4 times after the first day because the teacher insisted we write a daily journal. Finally got one that didn’t do that.

If the work is pointless busywork, I’ve never gotten along well with it. Probably one really good reason I’m a programmer is because if I have to do the same thing more than once...I automate it.

notacoward• 9 years ago

The thing that leapt out at me here was not the amount of work, but the feeling of being harassed, ambushed, denied even a chance to take a breath before the next demand is made.

Go read the "you know what would be awesome" part again, but instead of a parent saying it to a child imagine you're on the receiving end and it's your child or your spouse or your boss saying "wouldn't it be awesome" to you. No, it's not awesome. What would be awesome would be a shred of empathy, but none of that is evident.

Would you handle that situation with grace or equanimity? Could you have when you were 13? Doubtful. I know I didn't, and don't. Maybe some children are being worn out by the actual workload we give them, but AFAICT the article's real point is that they're also worn out by the emotional labor of being a repository for all of their parents' expectations and insecurities and frustrations. Parents should be responsible for their kids' mental health, not the other way around.

ScottBurson2• 9 years ago

the article's real point is that they're also worn out by the emotional labor of being a repository for all of their parents' expectations and insecurities and frustrations

Stunningly well said.

cerealbad• 9 years ago

children tend to become their parents.

you get less than 10 years to raise your child, then most of the big blocks are carved. a lot of human learning is imitation play. pushback naturally occurs for all parents because civilisation extends by destroying it's foundations. the child's naive critique is sound, most people have never stopped to question their own motivations and have no refutation to certain truisms except to feel frustration at cliches. explaining to your child that what they are doing is perpetuating the cycle they are unconsciously criticizing is pointless.

instead if you ever get into an argument with your teenager, take their hand, show them its shadow then say this

"there are five things you can become in life: a shadow, a hand, or a light..."

"i'll tell you about the other two when you're older."

(the other two are patient when they become parents, and

nsainsbury• 9 years ago

A wonderful related read that has stuck with me ever since I read it (and hope to apply when my 1yr old grows up a bit more): http://carolblack.org/on-the-wildness-of-children/

agnivade2• 9 years ago

Most of what I understand is just parents venting their frustration and despair in life through their kids. Because that is the only thing they have control over. Because they are unhappy and unsuccessful in their life they will force their kids to study continuously so that the kid fails and they get to scold him/her again.

Just my personal experience.

Parents are exhausting their children. An eighth-grade boy explains how

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