A CEO Who Pays Employees to De-Locate from the Bay

https://blog.ycombinator.com/the-ceo-who-pays-employees-to-de-locate-from-the-bay/

by janober • 9 years ago

174 222 9 years ago

blog.ycombinator.com

sabujp• 9 years ago

    "was if you're in the Bay Area and you take a job with 
    Zapier we'll pay $10,000 to help you relocate to 
    anywhere, or as we call it, de-locate."

..so this is just a one time re-location "bonus"? I think many large companies "pay you" something close to this amount to re-locate to the bay area. This really doesn't help that much. What would be better is to pay bay area salaries/rates in another part of the country that doesn't have stupid expensive housing rates + 10k/yearly for not working in the bay area.

mwfunk• 9 years ago

Many/most companies pay something like this for relocation. I never thought of it as a bonus, rather a way for an employer to offset the expense and misery of moving. If a company didn't help pay for relocation, I wouldn't want to work for that company. It's not a bonus, it's an expectation.

31reasons• 9 years ago

Facebook pays $50k to relocate to Bay Area!

phamilton6• 9 years ago

$10k is usually the signing bonus I get for just changing companies. Is this in addition to the signing bonus?

rifung• 9 years ago

Yes it is separate. At Amazon the signing bonus you owe if you leave within one year but the relocation bonus you owe if you leave within two; both are prorated

BeetleB• 9 years ago

Heck, I moved half way across the country and I got about that much for relocation.

Neither location involved the Bay area.

This seems to be the standard (and not special) relocation benefit.

gozur883• 9 years ago

Even if it's a one time bonus it's a pretty good deal for people who were looking to get out anyway.

watty• 9 years ago

This seems pretty genius. There is a surplus of highly skilled engineers in the Bay Area who are getting mediocre pay (when cost of living is taken into consideration). This allows Zapier to attract more of these highly skilled workers and not pay a premium to those in the bay area.

CiPHPerCoder• 9 years ago

I don't know if it's genius. To those of us who have never lived in the Bay Area and are perpetually sticker shocked by housing costs, it's really, really obvious.

But it's definitely a good idea.

sidlls8• 9 years ago

When compared to cost of living, sure. But factor in savings rate and opportunities and the cost of living cut is well worth it.

For example, I pay 2.5x in rent for a smaller place compared to what I was paying for a mortgage before I moved here. But my salary is 2x and a bit, and I'm saving more than 2x as a result.

smelterdemon• 9 years ago

If you don't mind me asking, what did the 25% increase in housing/income ratio come out of if your savings rate stayed the same?

WalterSear9• 9 years ago

It's not the cost of living. It's just the rent.

EduardoBautista• 9 years ago

And going out to restaurants and bars.

rm_-rf_slash• 9 years ago

$10,000 is a strong relocation package but the fine print is pretty clear that it's for reimbursement - not as a signing bonus.

You'd have to pay me pretty well to even consider moving to the Bay Area with today's housing prices. But if I'm already there with the salary I want, it may take even more to get me to leave. Certainly more than $10k in moving reimbursement.

mattnewton• 9 years ago

Agreed, the fact that I can drive to virtually any of the worlds largest tech companies and many of its promising startups from my current work is worth a lot more than 10k. Once that pressure is removed, I assume employers will pay market rate at wherever you relocated to.

andy_ppp• 9 years ago

I really enjoyed the podcast! It was probably the most impressive CEO I’ve heard, love the idea that he tslks to CEO a year or two away from where he is and picks their brains!

stevecalifornia• 9 years ago

Move to Washington State. Don't pay California income tax. Instant 8% boost to your take-home pay.

cosinetau2• 9 years ago

That, and Washington kicks hella ass.

Washington State. Not that Washington. The good one.(tm)

Jesus_Jones• 9 years ago

No, don't tell anyone. There are no jobs in Seattle, it's all a lie from Amazon, microsoft, facebook, hulu, google, tableau, memsql, and 1000 other startups.

btilly3• 9 years ago

And hope that the REALLY big quake doesn't get you. You know, the one off your coast that is estimated at 100x anything that the San Andreas fault can produce.

See https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/08/a-major-... if you don't know what I'm talking about.

dgfgfdagasdfgfa4• 9 years ago

Denver is even better—competitive wages w/ washington & lower cost of living.

dsfyu404ed• 9 years ago

There's a fire-hose of Californians directed at CO. In a decade or two they will have recreated the place they left.

adenner• 9 years ago

Des Moines is the same way.

MadManE• 9 years ago

There is nothing competitive about the wages in Denver when you're comparing to CA. Cost of living is lower than SV, but still one of the highest in the country.

WalterSear9• 9 years ago

But I don't want to work for Amazon or Microsoft or at Google's satellite office.

seattle_spring• 9 years ago

Then you're in luck, because there are a shitload of other tech companies in Seattle to choose from!

Twirrim• 9 years ago

It's almost as if you believe there are only 3 tech companies in Seattle.

Heck, those 3 aren't even the only big tech companies in Seattle, there's Apple, Facebook, Oracle, Twitter, etc. etc. let alone all the other smaller ones. There's more tech companies here than you can shake a stick at.

dabockster• 9 years ago

There's a ton of companies here that will hire you if you have the right experience.

If you're a new grad, however, expect to be out of work for a bit.

dawnerd• 9 years ago

And if you're one of those people that really hate taxes, live in Vancouver, WA and buy everything in Portland.

spitfire• 9 years ago

Or just point roberts.

whipoodle• 9 years ago

Hope you love bridges. And waiting.

paulcole• 9 years ago

combining the fun of sitting in traffic with none of the benefits of living in portland

tonyedgecombe4• 9 years ago

From someone outside the US, I'm amazed that states vary their income tax so much, I would have thought it's a magnet for fraud and corruption.

cryptoz2• 9 years ago

From someone outside the US, I'm amazed that states vary their income tax so much, I would have thought it's a magnet for fraud and corruption.

It is. Roads in the Bay Area are among the worst in the country, despite this region producing enormous corporate profits. Nearly all the companies here operate in an eternal tragedy of the commons, whereby nobody will pay local taxes because nobody else does. All the companies in California are actually Delaware companies, and the income inequality and quality-of-life disparity is a direct result of this kind of corruption.

tomschlick• 9 years ago

If it helps, think of the US as structured like the EU. Lots of common laws but lots that vary from state to state in the details (just like the separate countries).

ringaroundthetx6• 9 years ago

Can you elaborate on how that specific fraud and corruption would work?

Many states and some entire countries simply don't fund themselves by stealing from people's paycheck, but usually passively tax other kinds of transactions.

There are lots of opportunities using combinations of the 50 states, territories and non-US jurisdictions.

gvd5• 9 years ago

WA will has higher property taxes. Or at least they get re-evaluated each year (unlike in CA)

s73ver_• 9 years ago

Ok, so I "delocate". Do I then have to take a pay cut because I'm now somewhere else?

Spreading the tech sector out around the country even more is great, and things like this can be a step in the right direction. But a big part of why the Bay Area is what it is has to do with funding. Most VCs are there, and don't seem to be willing to move away. Hell, YC requires you to be there, at least during your time with them. And the concentration of tech talent means that it's always easy to find a new job, or even to start your own company.

alexbanks3• 9 years ago

And the concentration of tech talent means that it's always easy to find a new job, or even to start your own company.

I've never been there, but I see this echoed a lot. Is it actually true? I'm interested in both, but I'm wary of the exaggeration that may be "it's easy".

ntolia• 9 years ago

Honestly, the answer will really vary depending on who you talk to. That said, if you have worked hard and built a network in the area, those things are actually true. Even around 2001/2002 as well as 2008/2009 there were always jobs around if you knew where to go look. Similarly, if one has established a reputation for themselves (one doesn't need to be a public figure though), it makes it easier to get something off the ground.

jamesmishra• 9 years ago

Starting a company is always unbelievably difficult, but the Bay Area's density makes things a little easier.

I used to live in an apartment on 55 9th St, San Francisco. The guy in the apartment across the hall also started a company at the same time as me. He introduced me to other founder friends in the apartment building.

The lobby has a coffee shop where I've made other founder, angel, and VC friends.

And I haven't even started enumerating all my other startup-y friends I made outside of my own apartment lobby.

I got very lucky, and your own mileage may vary, but if you're looking for helpful startup-y people, the Bay Area is still the world capital.

WalterSear9• 9 years ago

Yes, if you are a developer. Work is very easy to come by, though the vast majority is nowhere near as innovative or exciting as it once was here.

I can't help thinking that this move by Zapier is a way to reduce turnover. I have several friends who smugly relocated away from the bay area, who now hate their jobs and can't leave them because there are no local opportunities.

Working remotely may be different, but the problems of networking and finding new work still apply.

jdblair• 9 years ago

Yes. I know this is just one person's experience, but I've been continuously employed since 1998 except for a 4 week gap after losing my job in 2002. This is at 8 different companies. 10 if you count name changes due to the way one startup was bought and sold.

kevinnk• 9 years ago

A friend of mine got an offer from a startup in Palo Alto that he wanted to negotiate. He literally walked across the street to another interview and had a counter offer when he met with the founder of the first company the next day.

luckydata• 9 years ago

yeah, it's very true. If you're not happy somewhere you can walk out without a backup plan and have a job in a couple weeks if you're picky.

codingdave• 9 years ago

Starting a company is easy. Making that company succeed is difficult. Finding a job is easy. Being happy in that job long-term is difficult.

So yes -- the statements are true. But not the slightest bit profound.

aphextron• 9 years ago

but I'm wary of the exaggeration that may be "it's easy".

It really is. It's why I cant bring myself to leave this place even with all it's warts. Knowing that you can just screw off and do whatever you want for a year then have a dozen interviews lined up for six figure jobs with nothing more than a few emails is really empowering, actually. I can't imagine the anxiety of living somewhere else and being dependent on a single good job no matter what the relocation bonus is.

sidlls8• 9 years ago

Easy is relative. I have my linked in profile as private as I can make it, and I still get 1-2 recruiters messaging me every week. When I lived outside the Bay I might have got 10 or so over the course of a year.

roguecoder2• 9 years ago

If I wanted a job in Boston by Wednesday, I'd probably be able to find one, maybe two. Here the only question would be how many people I had time to talk to between now and then.

If you have a desirable resume, skills to back it up and maybe a connection or two, it is beyond trivial to get a job here. It is still challenging to break into, but once you're in, I don't know anyone who is unemployed except by choice and even those people who want to be unemployed get unsolicited job offers.

I wouldn't know about starting your own company, but getting a job right now is absolutely as easy as people make it out to be. Finding a job you want might be a different story, of course.

bryanh• 9 years ago

We will not adjust your salary downwards if you take the "delocation package".

ThePawnBreak• 9 years ago

Does that mean that location is not taken into account for salaries, or does it mean that if I start in Croatia I get $30k, but if an American starts in the Bay Area and relocates to Croatia, he'll get $120k plus a $10k bonus while I'm still getting $30k?

jpao796• 9 years ago

I think part of the challenge becomes if the startup gets into a situation where it needs to get acquired/acqui-hired by Google/Facebook/Apple/Cisco/Salesforce/Oracle/Uber. Will potential acquirers want to entertain having all the acquir-hired talent remote and not onsite to be integrated/indoctrinated?

zitterbewegung• 9 years ago

So by giving them a $10k carrot they can basically lock them in to the company because it would be much more difficult to interview for competitors or even start startups. That's pretty genius.

briandear3• 9 years ago

Exactly. Because startups are only allowed to interview on site in an approved conference room within a 10 mile radius of Sunnyvale.

I also heard a rumor that getting funding for a startup requires a product with some traction. It isn’t like Sand Hill Road is lined with VC ATMs.

Read The San Francisco Fallacy by Jonathan Siegel if you think success with a startup has anything to do with a Silicon Valley proximity.

tehlike3• 9 years ago

The reason is probably super inflated salaries in bay area due to high cost of living.

Lock in has probably less to do with this than pure money aspect.

tmh792• 9 years ago

the salaries are not due to cost of living, they are due to a competetive labor market.

eldavido• 9 years ago

I think there's a collective realization happening in the Bay Area that the landlords are the real winners and everyone else is just playing their game. Employees hate seeing 3k/month fly out the door in rent just as much as CEOs hate paying it, just as much as investors hate seeing their capital ultimately end up with landlords.

Big companies in general are conservative. They've made it and don't want to take unnecessary risks. Trying to introduce remote culture into a company that isn't used to it/tooled for it is a HUGE risk.

The innovation in hiring is going to come from small companies who need to hire but can't afford Bay Area salaries. Mid-career folks here, not even particularly good ones, are routinely looking at 200k or more out the door from their employers. 400k seed rounds, hell even 800k seed rounds, don't go very far on that kind of money. So what has to happen is that (a) founders have to get comfortable giving up a lot more equity for more capital, (b) investors have to be comfortable paying much higher valuations for early-stage companies, (c) employees have to be willing to take more stock in lieu of cash, or (d) companies have to do more remote hiring. I see a mix of all four happening depending on the particular circumstances of each company (e.g. famous founders will be able to raise more at higher valuation)

It's all pretty simple. The landlords win and everyone else loses. The situation will only get better once remote work is more widely accepted, but I'm starting to think it might come to that, with how expensive things are here. A nothing-special sandwich in Oakland, CA where I live is almost $15, at some point you say enough is enough and go somewhere where such an obscene price level is a joke, not day-to-day reality.

aetherson2• 9 years ago

They aren't reducing people's salaries who "de-locate." So if they're clawing back any salary, it's long-term by giving them lower raises. It takes a while for that to kick in.

I think it is lock-in. Not just because it makes it somewhat harder to get in front of other companies, but because making a Bay Area kind of salary in a place with a non-Bay-Area cost of living sounds like the kind of thing that could make an employee very comfortable and very unwilling to go looking for another job. If you're getting like an equivalent of +$30k (or more), even if another company says, "Oh, sure, we'll hire you for $20k over your current salary... but you'll need to move back to the Bay Area," that's an offer you're much less likely to take than if you were already in the Bay Area. And local companies in your new place-of-work are unlikely to be able to match your existing salary.

tonyedgecombe4• 9 years ago

If they are foolish enough to inflate their standard of living to a level unsupportable by local employers.

tmh792• 9 years ago

I guess "start up pays delocation bonus that is less than 1/3 of a signing bonus at the big valley companies" is not as complelling.

jpao796• 9 years ago

He (and Sam Altman for all YC companies) should have the startup(s) all de-locate to the same town that's within driving distance of the Silicon Valley.

I bet you could convince a lot of tech people to move to Santa Cruz or Monterey. You could also recruit from UC Santa Cruz and Cal Poly. Both downtown Santa Cruz and downtown Monterey feel pretty small town urban-y.

Plus the Silicon Valley VC's can play golf at Pebble Beach or Half Moon Bay Ritz Carlton and make a weekend getaway out of it AND get a business trip tax write-off for mileage and hotel says.

And maybe before descending on the town you can get the city council and a developer to agree to build high density housing in the downtown core.

This Palo Alto planning commissioner/Palantir spokesperson for high density housing in Palo Alto ended up moving to Santa Cruz: http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/08/10/palo-alto-planning-com...

throwaway2048• 9 years ago

That would fix things for a few years at best, and then it would likely end up even more expensive than the bay area.

jpao796• 9 years ago

Within Monterey/Santa Cruz proper that is true, but there is quite a bit of farmland in Salinas for single family homes. Water might be an issue.

Going north, you could head toward Rohnert Park/Sonoma. SamA and PG will just need to get in the car a bit more instead of taking Caltrain/BART.

myrandomcomment2• 9 years ago

I lived in Menlo Park for 8 years with my family. When I moved there the startup I went to work for was a 5 minute walk from my house. My current startup is also in Menlo. A year ago my wife and wanted a larger place. We looked in Menlo and PA. $3M for a teardown / needs tons of work. After thinking about it we started to look outside of the area. School district was a key factor of course. We ending up going as far up the mountain from Los Gatos as we could and still be in the school district. $1.3M+500K remodel. Half of my companies employees are remote. We use G-apps with Meeting and Slack. It works well. I drive into the office 2 days a week timing the drive to be outside of traffic hows. 50KM drive outside of traffic is 30 minutes, with traffic is 1.5 hours. I have friends that moved to Morgan Hill, Gilroy and take the CalTrain in. We other developers relocate out of state because of the cost of living. The cost of housing in the main areas is stupid, even if you can afford it. Menlo and PA are doing NOTHING to support the high density housing required to make things better.

I agree there is something unique about being able to have everyone around you in the same line of business (tech) and it is great for making contacts, etc. However the cost are really starting to outweigh the benefits.

The bay area needs to look to places like Tokyo as an example of how to build out from the trains to the housing.

jpao796• 9 years ago

Been meaning to checkout Morgan Hill. I hear downtown Morgan Hill is pretty happening these days.

I also noticed that there is a self-driving car company down there: http://velodynelidar.com Are there any other interesting tech companies down there?

Nice thing is that if you live near downtown you could take the Caltrain up to downtown MTV or PA.

danans2• 9 years ago

I agree there is something unique about being able to have everyone around you in the same line of business (tech) and it is great for making contacts, etc. However the cost are really starting to outweigh the benefits.

There is also a cost to having everyone around you in the same line of business, both in terms of correlated economic risk, and also in terms of loss of perspective.

nradov• 9 years ago

Santa Cruz and Monterey are barely cheaper, and they have very little extra housing available. If you want to actually save any money you'll have to head inland toward the Central Valley.

ThrustVectoring• 9 years ago

Reno seems like a good option, not counting quality-of-life (I've never been there, so couldn't say). Housing is actually reasonably priced, it's in Nevada with no state income tax, and it's a 4 hour drive or a pretty cheap bus ride to get back to SF.

I know a few folks who work remotely with SF companies that live in Reno. They'll make the trek occasionally to come into the office, too.

jpao796• 9 years ago

Reno is pretty sweet, pretty decent outdoor activities. Up and coming downtown too. Plus your friends who stay in the Bay Area can visit you on the weekend during the ski season.

I remember when I was in semiconductor sales engineer I visited International Gaming Technology out there (video game slot machines). It was surprisingly not very desert like at all in the spring. The fields were covered in green grass.

Adrock• 9 years ago

"...this remote thing helps me get away from San Francisco because I'm either disenfranchised with, you know housing costs here..."

It's fascinating to see which words tech CEOs don't know the meaning of.

darpa_escapee• 9 years ago

It's almost ironic.

phamilton6• 9 years ago

Anyone who owns a home in the bay area is going to pay 5-6% in fees to sell their home. $10k isn't going to cover that loss.

The ultimate perk (which is often provided by big corporations in a relocation) is to cover the real estate fees.

adamdill• 9 years ago

What percentage of developers own a home in the bay area? Its probably low enough to not matter in this case.

phamilton6• 9 years ago

Senior Engineers? Developers over the age of 30? People with kids? Plenty own property.

This comes across as another form of Zuckerberg-esque ageism.

gvd5• 9 years ago

I never understood a real-estate fee of 6-7%. Real estate agent is what you become if you don't like work and have no other way to be productive to society in my opinion.

salimmadjd• 9 years ago

Interesting podcast. I didn't know about Zapier so I checked out their website.

It took me like 5-10 minutes to understand what they do. It was only after seeing the Gmail(attachment) > DropBox > Slack I understood what they really do. Which is very cool.

I have one need. I want a quick way of converting a list of stuff on slack into todo list with ability to check off the task as they're completed. OR if I can have a keyword --TODO-- --END-- in gmail and turn it into a todo list. Will Zapier allow something like this?

mdbennett• 9 years ago

Zapier Support here. The most common way I see people do this is by starring Slack messages they want to add as Todos. Here's a template that uses Todoist, although there's no shortage of alternatives on that side of things: https://zapier.com/app/editor/template/1580

Outside of that, you can build a zap that triggers on any message and use a Filter step to make sure only messages that meet your criteria(e.g. your keyword) move on to the action: https://zapier.com/help/how-get-started-filters-zapier/

If your ultimate goal is to manage the todo list from inside Slack, there's not a great way to do that with Zapier. Personally, I manually add/delete items in my 'You' channel to get to that type of functionality.

5706906c06c• 9 years ago

Once you leave the Bay Area, it becomes exponentially more difficult to come back, so the what-if scenario of this employment expiring becomes a real threat to financial viability.

r00fus• 9 years ago

Not if you keep your house (assuming you own) and rent it. Many lucky folks can rent for significantly more than cost/PITI, adding another passive income stream.

So the pitch is: 1) De-locate to a more reasonable real-estate market where you can actually buy the house you want/need. 2) Rent-out your existing SFBay property if you own, and get additional income (even minus property management cut) 3) Get a bonus 4) Maybe move closer to family outside of SFBay.

What's not said: 1) Career mobility is limited to whatever market you move to and within Zapier. 2) Salary probably likely won't make same leaps as if you stayed 3) You might have family in the SFBay - could be a downside to move away

If you're career-stable and open to move it can be a good deal.

mychael2• 9 years ago

Pros/Cons of living in the Bay Area for most tech workers:

Pros

- Proudly displaying "San Francisco" in your Twitter bio.

- An abundance of career opportunities.

Cons

- Making six figures, but still living with roommates.

- Commuting to work in awful public transportation.

- Becoming desensitized to poverty and fecal matter on the streets.

- Feeling unwelcome by locals.

- Not being able to afford to live in a cool part of town.

- For straight men: Unfavorable male/female ratios at bars & nightlife.

- Monoculture.

sidlls8• 9 years ago

You forgot at least two pros:

- Large salaries lead to higher savings rates

- Opportunities are just not comparable almost anywhere less expensive: there are tens of thousands of jobs from hundreds of employers here in the Bay Area for technology that pays well, compared with hundreds or maybe a few thousand jobs for maybe a dozen or few tens of employers

Also the "monoculture" dig applies to tech specifically: in terms of actual cultural diversity very few places are as interesting.

jtmarmon• 9 years ago

- Large salaries lead to higher savings rates

not in san fransisco https://www.mytrove.com/ca/san-francisco/cheddar/software-ap...

mychael2• 9 years ago

Good point. Updated the list to include opportunities!

aaron-lebo3• 9 years ago

We had a dev working for the summer who got a job at an SF startup this past week. He's making $2k a week, but his rent for his apartment costs $3k and he's got roommates. As someone who has lived off of $40k and rented a $1.4k a month loft that was absolutely palatial, in the middle of the city with great views, this sounds like insanity. My coworker who is from the Boston area was similarly aghast at the differences in cost of living.

Have fun at your nice job, but I'm not coming home to roommates for $3k a month. The numbers don't really seem to work out, a lot of people are basically selling great living conditions for the chance to go work at companies that probably won't be there in a few years and really aren't doing anything interesting.

Also the "monoculture" dig applies to tech specifically: in terms of actual cultural diversity very few places are as interesting.

I feel like people who say this about any city haven't gotten out much in other cities.

gozur883• 9 years ago

Large salaries only lead to higher savings if they don't get gobbled up by taxes and a high CoL.

mrep• 9 years ago

Seattle is pretty close on salary/jobs and cost of living is much lower/no state income tax.

Although there are some people that seem to only find enjoyment bitching about the weather which I find hilarious coming from the midwest where the temperature can swing 60 degrees in a day, summers are so hot that you sweat sitting down, and winters are so cold that you only see bundles of clothing walking around. I'll take mild temperatures, mountains, lakes/oceans, and a little bit of overcast over wild temperature swings, flat land, no water, and a bit more sun anyday.

btian2• 9 years ago

More Pros

- Drive to work in your Tesla

- Free gourmet food at work

- A lot of Whole Foods Market to shop at

- Being rich AF

uiri2• 9 years ago

None of the points you list are at all unique to the Bay Area.

The person you are replying to is highlighting the high cost of living and tax burden in the Bay Area (relative to other parts of the US). It is disingenuous to respond by claiming that a pro of living in the Bay Area is "Being rich AF".

nostrademons2• 9 years ago

Also in the pros category:

- Great weather. 8 months out of the year, it's basically guaranteed that if you walk outside it'll be sunny & 70.

- Good outdoor parks.

- Openness to ideas.

- Every kind of food imaginable.

- Relatively bike-friendly (Peninsula; uncertain about SF itself).

Additional cons:

- Traffic.

- Poor public transportation

marzell• 9 years ago

In my experience, 8 months out of the year it will be very windy and ~60 degrees. Even if the rest of the bay has good weather on a particular day, there's a good chance it's foggy over much of the peninsula.

trynewideas• 9 years ago

Leave! The word you're looking for is "leave"!

chrissnell2• 9 years ago

As someone who works remotely and who posts remote-friendly openings for his team in the Who's Hiring HN thread, it's kind of amazing to me that more people aren't actively looking to get out.

I live and work in a small midwestern town because my wife's military job has us here. If I was single, however, I would make the most of my remoteness and try working from a variety of towns. Here's some places that I would try if I was a young remote worker:

- A small Colorado/Utah/Montana ski town. Some place like Telluride, where I could ski/hike/bike in the mornings

- A fun desert town with great recreation like Moab, UT...Prescott, AZ...Bend, OR...

- A beach town in S. Florida during the winter

- Costa Rica, Panama, Bay Islands of Honduras in the wintertime

- Thailand

- South coast of Texas in the Winter, Texas Hill Country in the fall

It could be so much fun...

kilroy123• 9 years ago

I work remote and I've worked from a few of these places. Panama is ok. Costa Rica and the Bay Islands of Honduras both have HORRIBLE internet. Thailand is hell if you need to work the same time zone as people in the US.

But I agree, it's great to travel and work.

santoriv• 9 years ago

I worked remotely in Vietnam for about a year. It was pretty great. Fun and super cheap. I wasn't in a big city so I could literally pay my monthly rent with one hour of work.

sidlls8• 9 years ago

If you paid Bay Area wages and offered something more than at-will style job security you'd probably see more people wanting to get out.

For me I've yet to see a remote position that wasn't fraught with the same risk as any other company, or that pays anything like a reasonable salary.

chrissnell2• 9 years ago

I can't speak for other companies but we make salary offers based on the candidate's experience and role, not their location.

However, the job security is an interesting point. I suspect that Zapier gains huge leverage over it's relocated employees because they're now dependent on their Zapier job, another hard-to-find remote gig elsewhere, or funding their own move back to a tech hub. I don't know what Zapier's pay bands are like but I'll bet their employee churn is lower than industry average.

chasb• 9 years ago

I lived in Denver for 2 years, and now Portland. Bend, SLC/Sandy, Jackson, Durango, Steamboat, the list goes on.

edit: I'm CEO at Aptible, where we recruit for remote. Personal freedom is a nice perk.

lstyls2• 9 years ago

That's awesome. What are the challenges you've faced as a remote employer?

winslow• 9 years ago

Do you have a job board with these postings? I'd be quite interested in researching something like that. Recently was trying to do that with the company I worked for and they were a little timid to do it I also had another offer I wanted them to match so I think the combo made them timid to counter.

throw4625• 9 years ago

I did this for five years in Panama. Weather was nice. Met my wife there. Learned Spanish. There's no income tax there if your money comes from out of the country. As long as you're not from the US, that's amazing. For Americans I think you still have to pay tax over 100,000 income. Remote salaries don't go much above that anyway though. Paid off my mortgage by 31. Not too bad for a college dropout.

icelancer2• 9 years ago

Costa Rica

I worked on site in San Jose for a time and also remotely in the US while my office was there. Internet is a real, real issue in a lot of Central American and other "nice" foreign places to visit that aren't fully developed. Became a real problem for me as a remote worker.

btilly3• 9 years ago

That is a horrible format. I don't want to listen. I want to scroll and read at my speed. The most that I can use is what, 15% of my screen? And partway through reading it, it decided to start playing anyways and jump back to the beginning.

If someone (eg me) wants a transcript, make it easy to get the transcript!

ltaaug8• 9 years ago

If you want to attract talent outside the Bay Area, pay better. Even with the insane cost of living, I still end up ahead financially when I've compared to other places.

pascalxus• 9 years ago

I'm guessing this offer is going to be extremely popular. The second you leave the bay area, it's like getting a million dollar signing bonus for a place to live.

I'm a little surprised more workers aren't leaving SF and the bay area peninsula. Even if you take 50% pay cut, your still getting paid a lot more, relative to you cost of living. I'm guessing the reason is: us engineers have a hard time understanding and thinking about compensation in terms of living costs, hence only the absolute $ value of a salary is taken into account.

Also, I think a lot of people don't want to move away from friends and family.

Graziano_M• 9 years ago

So you're getting paid to relocate to somewhere farther away from the bay. Maybe your salary will go farther, but you're giving up the whole reason people move to the bay area in the first place: It's where the jobs are.

The bay area is what it is because there's a feedback loop. People setup here because there are jobs. There are jobs here because there are people to fill them. By relocating away you're giving up your mobility to other bay area jobs. That might be great while you keep that job, but then you're at a disadvantage (again) when you decide to move again.

A CEO Who Pays Employees to De-Locate from the Bay

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