Y Combinator blacklists founder of Gab.ai

https://twitter.com/torbahax/status/797180049698983936

by selleck • 10 years ago

105 80 10 years ago

minimaxir2• 10 years ago

Important context: Said founder entered YC working on an ad optimization platform, but recently pivoted to Twitter for the alt-right.

rvcamo• 10 years ago

Wrong.

It's the Twitter for free speech.

hyperpape5• 10 years ago

...you mean Twitter?

drivingmenuts• 10 years ago

Whatever. Unless it's carefully moderated (ie., censored, to some) it will gather a large collection of angry right-wing posters or angry left-wing posters. One side will harass the other and the other side will eventually go elsewhere. Then it will be just another echo chamber.

If the creator has pivoted to the alt-right, it's a pretty sure guess that it will wind up being another 8chan/stormfront/what have you.

tomohawk• 10 years ago

Sounds like YC is building their own wall

ec109685• 10 years ago

Why does it sound like that? Did you take a look at the content posted?

livestyle• 10 years ago

Funny how YC is quickly becoming the antithesis of all the great PG essays..

Hydraulix9892• 10 years ago

Explain?

RickS3• 10 years ago

From the screenshot he himself provided [1], it looks like he was confronted about making people at YC feel unsafe, and responded by saying they "shouldn't be on the internet".

Contrarian views are one thing. Addressing the people who fund your company like a belligerent troll is another.

You're entitled to free speech, you're not entitled to a captive ear to hear it.

[1] http://i.imgur.com/ReFx2Mr.png

atom-morgan• 10 years ago

"feel unsafe" has been more subjective and ridiculous than ever.

RickS3• 10 years ago

"feel unsafe" has been more subjective and ridiculous than ever.

Sure, in the sense of the "liberals and safe spaces" macro topic, I'll concede that.

But YC is big on bringing in founders from other countries and giving them the tools to be successful in America.

In those scenarios YC is the foundation of their life in the country. Funding, documentation, network, etc. To have voices in the group that's supposed to help you start talking about "build the wall" and deporting people, especially in the context of the larger Trump political movement?

Yeah, if a company paid for me to come to a foreign land and do business, but members started talking about deporting all the guys like me and building a wall to keep them out, I would feel uncertain about my future, my business, and my residency. unsafe.

I think it's completely reasonable in this case.

minimaxir2• 10 years ago

For posterity, here is the beginning of the referenced Facebook thread (also linked to by the founder on Twitter): https://imgur.com/a/dWgdV

mundo2• 10 years ago

"unsafe" has become a bit of a buzzword in the interminable red-vs-blue wars, but everything else about this would've played out the same way if she had said he was "inappropriate" or "unprofessional".

Looks to me like free speech is still free and trolling at work still has consequences and there's not much to see here unless you're personally involved with one of the companies.

tptacek2• 10 years ago

... you say with absolutely no evidence, based on a truncated screenshot of a public Facebook feed.

pcwalton• 10 years ago

Surprise! When you publicly mock and scorn someone who was privately expressing fear that the person who will soon become the most powerful man in the world is about to use state-sanctioned violence to force you out of the country (to say nothing of the unrepudiated extrajudicial violence regularly dished out by his supporters), then you are in fact making people feel unsafe! The literal, dictionary definition of "unsafe"!

sjtgraham• 10 years ago

You're entitled to free speech, you're not entitled to a captive ear to hear it.

Ironically a captive ear is exactly what SJW's demand, and if you fail to oblige you're a (delete as appropriate) straight/white/male/able-bodied/cis-gendered/dudebro who is "part of the problem" and "literally Hitler". I'm so disappointed in how partisan YC has become, capitulating completely to prevailing meme of SJWs. It's becoming less about "make something people want" and more "care about what people think".

RickS3• 10 years ago

The thing you're talking about is, regardless of its accuracy, distant from this situation.

tlrobinson• 10 years ago

I'm so disappointed in how partisan YC has become, capitulating completely to prevailing meme of SJWs.

This had little to do with politics. The guy mocked a YC founder who expressed fear for his safety, and called another YC founder a "coward", among other things.

And just a couple weeks ago YC didn't capitulate to demands to cut ties with Peter Thiel over his support of Trump.

What other instances are you referring to?

kapitza• 10 years ago

Usually when people make this argument they're wrong, but not in this case. I'm disturbed by OP's low-quality trolling.

When you're a dissident or ideological minority in any context, it's absolutely essential at all times to be the kindest, gentlest, sweetest person in the room. That way, when they ban you for "feeling unsafe," it's obvious to everyone what's going on.

Obviously OP wasn't actually a danger to anyone. That's ridiculous. But there isn't any world where you can be a dissident and also be a dick, and get away with it.

nailer2• 10 years ago

Does 'safe' actually mean 'safe' or does it mean something else now?

How would a sane adult feel like they were in some kind of danger by someone wanting stronger controls on immigration?

tptacek2• 10 years ago

He edited the screenshot to exclude the specific concern that kicked this off.

merb6• 10 years ago

well even if his ban wasn't deserved... he made it deserving, just watching his twitter account (not facebook etc), looks like he is somebody that is not a great guy and can't stand such things. I mean he actually posted a picture of him self and his middlefinger pointing at ycombinator?! seriously he is a hater and not somebody that should be taken seriously.

insulting people or a group of people is not free speech anymore it's actually a crime.

exolymph2• 10 years ago

insulting people or a group of people is not free speech anymore it's actually a crime.

This is incorrect. https://popehat.com/2016/06/11/hello-youve-been-referred-her...

merb6• 10 years ago

well maybe not in america. in my country (germany) you get into jail for insulting, see StGB (§ 185 Beleidigung).

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=h...

maverick_iceman3• 10 years ago

It's insulting and objectionable speech that is in the highest need of protection. Freedom of speech is not really an issue for bland pronouncements like "I love my mother" or "I stand for peace."

merb6• 10 years ago

if I say "fuck you" it's not really freedom of speech. I directly insulted you, I didn't even want a conversation, I directly harmed you. People who think they can the "free speech" excuse for insults are just horrible, they don't understand that free speech is to actually say something in a nice manner which needs to be addressed not just to hammer on some people who do it wrong, that's a different thing and people actually don't get that right, probably because there is a really small line between insulting and objectonable speech, but still you know when somebody insulted somebody and he actually did, he didn't want to address his behavior he just expressed his meaning with insults and not any objectonable speech.

If I would've been banned, I would try to address that as well, but not in such a hateful manner than he did.

DanBC• 10 years ago

I can disagree with you without calling you a cowardly cuck. What's the value of a conversation that includes such insults?

rebootthesystem2• 10 years ago

Freedom of speech does not mean one is free from the consequences of speech.

This is something a lot of young folks don't seem to understand. You can say anything you want. Go for it. And you will own the consequences of what you said, whatever they might be.

I offer this as a general comment. Not taking sides on the issue highlighted by the post. I simply think it is important to point out this reality in case it is lost in all the nonsense this election has managed to produce.

sabertoothed2• 10 years ago

"Freedom of speech does not mean one is free from the consequences of speech."

Not sure this makes sense. It's like saying you are free to murder someone. But then you have to live with the consequences. Which leads the concept of freedom ad absurdum.

My point is that freedom of speech has never been unlimited. In my country it is slightly more restrictive than in the US but even the US does not have a 100% perfect freedom of speech. And that is a good(!) thing.

exolymph2• 10 years ago

It means that you can say anything you want [within narrow and specific legal limits] but so can everyone else. Freedom of speech =/= freedom from criticism or freedom from censure. Censorship by the government is prohibited but censorship by a private entity like YC is perfectly legal.

maverick_iceman3• 10 years ago

If in your country government censors any speech then you're not living in a free country.

rebootthesystem2• 10 years ago

Let me take to an extreme:

You can say anything you want in public. And someone can still run you over with a truck if they don't like it. They would go to jail, of course.

I see a lot of young people out there saying and doing really dumb things. Yes, you do have freedom of speech, but it isn't a Captain America shield that will protect you from the consequences of what you say, where you say it and to whom you said it.

Like the guy who brought out a "Never Trump" sign in the middle of a Trump rally. He got roughed-up good. And, of course, this wasn't right. The people who attacked him need to be charged with assault. And he needs to truly reflect on the idea that if you do something like that you could very well end-up in the hospital or worst.

In other words: Freedom of speech doesn't mean someone can behave like a class-A moron. Well, actually, no, they can, but they better be ready to face whatever the consequences might be.

jaf656s• 10 years ago

Freedom of speech also only applies to the state. The government cannot suppress your free speech.

It says absolutely nothing about what private parties (or companies) can do about speech.

e.g. If you come into my house and start shouting racial slurs, I don't have to honor your "free speech". I can rightly kick you out of my house. The same goes for any private company.

anon_adderlan2• 10 years ago

Freedom of speech does not mean one is free from the consequences of speech.

But who should be held accountable for those consequences?

For example, what about a woman who's struck by a visibly drunk man after telling him to "fuck off"? Should she be held accountable because she should have known better? Should the man be held accountable for his actions regardless of what she said? What about when the consequences of a statement are entirely unintended and unpredictable, which is happening more and more often these days? What about when a joke between friends becomes a public relations nightmare when overheard outside the necessary context?

This is such a meaningless slogan I don't know where to begin. Nobody expects their speech to be free of consequence, otherwise they'd never say anything in the first place. What they want is speech which achieves their intent, which is rapidly becoming all but impossible. It's like coding, only without the pair programming, test driven development, and strong typing.

phonon• 10 years ago

Reminds me of

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11633270#11633517

coolswan• 10 years ago

sort of sad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVI1NpCBF88 (tldr; same guy on how he overcame bullying - the very thing he's now doing)

merb6• 10 years ago

money makes people dirty.

mundo2• 10 years ago

Not to sound conspiratorial, but isn't Gab.ai trying to market itself as a censorship-free twitter clone for alt-right types? If so, what better way to generate brand awareness and users than by picking fights with liberals?

Retra• 10 years ago

What good is your brand if everyone hates it?

arama471• 10 years ago

Unfortunately (as one might be able to tell from the election results) not everyone hates Trump. In fact his supporters would likely make a sizeable consumer base.

nols• 10 years ago

Seems like it, I Googled him to get a better understanding and several prominent links were Breitbart articles about other posts of his that were removed from Twitter and Facebook. Looks like a lot of it is just drumming up support for his completely free speech Twitter clone.

gotlove• 10 years ago

Also, not really 'completely free speech' either. From the Breitbart article:

a zero tolerance policy for promoting terrorism

Everyone has their own version of acceptable free speech. Him using 'free speech' as his tagline and yet having restrictions is hypocritical.

eeeeeeeeeeeee• 10 years ago

It sounds like the "build the wall" comment was not the entire issue. This guy sounds like a huge asshole and that is what got him booted.

internaut• 10 years ago

Torba, if you're reading this, consider that Curtis Yarvin's Tlon receives angel investment from well known SV VCs and he also posts here regularly.

So the guy who literally invented neoreaction isn't suppressed by YC because of his views then it is pretty unlikely you're getting persecuted because of yours.

Nick Denton constantly overreached in using freedom of speech as a cover for just simply fucking with people until it blew up in his face. Don't be the alt-right's version of that. You can afford to be magnanimous and give some gesture of conciliation.

Do you really want to be giving Pao material to work with?

Fighting censorship is serious business, forget this teacup war, nobody will remember any of it in a year.

sama• 10 years ago

We support free speech, obviously. And we're happy to fund people with all sorts of different political views.

We do not allow harassment, for which Andrew unfortunately set a new bar in our community. You can look at his Twitter or Facebook for plenty of public examples, to say nothing of what he's said privately.

As per our previous comments, when a founder violates our ethics statement, we remove them from the community.

angersock• 10 years ago

While I'm generally rather suspect of you folks and your moral authority, this is an example of the behavior you're referring to:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxAg4AXXcAITru4.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxAbtwQUcAApPQa.jpg

https://twitter.com/torbahax/status/797110760556167168

From a pure business standpoint, fuck that guy. He didn't really articulate his views in any way that could remotely be considered constructive, and if the rest of his behavior matches that, it's difficult to imagine keeping him around.

hawkice3• 10 years ago

The first and third ones were clearly mean-spirited, but the second one seems like it's in-bounds for society as a whole ("coward", while obviously impolite, can't possibly be worse than "racist", which is apparently an in-bounds part of political conversation). Not an insane request to abide by either: if they are literally asking for it, naming and shaming seems opt-in-able.

merb6• 10 years ago

What about that: https://twitter.com/torbahax/status/797203694160871425

I really can't understand such a attitude.

tafeminist• 10 years ago

@sama Sam Altman, can you explain your reasoning for banning a company that merely wrote something on Twitter, but you allowed Jumpcut from S16 who actually went into the streets and filmed street harassment (forcefully kissing women without permission, massaging them without permission, and "motor-boating" them as an incentive for charity) with their brand Simple Pickup?

Here are links proving my point: http://www.dailydot.com/irl/simple-pickup-youtube-sexual-ass...

http://www.dailycal.org/2012/02/29/youtube-pickup-artists-co...

Here's the petition to remove their YouTube channel -> www.change.org/p/youtube-com-end-street-harassment-remove-simple-pickup-s-youtube-channel-13bef5b3-1dcc-4f8a-be88-ef3f69cc7e1c

They are still making money with their Project Go program which shows their instructor Willy molesting a woman without her knowing she was being filmed.

Seems like this type of harassment is an embodiment of what you would disagree with.

Or were you just not aware of this?

1337biz• 10 years ago

And here we go. That is exactly what happens once censorship is not any longer based on legal evidence but personal judgement. The 'my feelings are hurt more than yours competition' starts.

Edit: Actually watched some of the videos mentioned. Totally amazed how anyone can get offended by prank videos and doesn't know about actors involved.

hawkice3• 10 years ago

I don't want to read too far into the comments already made, but: a YC company sexually harassing strangers on the street doesn't seem to impact people's desire to do business with YC.

But if you do much less, but to people YC has to do business with, that has real consequences.

If they were motorboating Marc Andreessen without consent, for instance, they wouldn't need news coverage and video to drop them.

EDIT: I don't mean this to be cynical so much as derived from fiduciary duty.

alva• 10 years ago

I think this needs to be answered by YC

throwaway11-11• 10 years ago

You can see Andrew's tweet here: http://imgur.com/a/vnbvT

Note that he did not simply tweet the words "Build the wall." That's not what happened. What he did is he screenshotted another YC founder's private facebook wall post, in which she says she is scared for her safety. And he publicly tweeted her words while adding "Build the wall" as mocking commentary.

dang• 10 years ago

The submitted title was "Y Combinator blacklists founder of Gab.ai for saying “build the wall”", but we shortened it because it doesn't sound like that was the reason.

(I don't have any information about this beyond skimming the current thread and looking at a few of the things people have linked to.)

Hydraulix9892• 10 years ago

I wonder how different he must have been for YC to make the call to fund him in the first place. Even watching his old YouTube videos, I can tell something is "off" with his personality (maybe confirmation bias at play).

Y Combinator blacklists founder of Gab.ai

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