Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-03/apple-s-push-to-flood-india-with-used-iphones-ignites-backlash

by mastazi • 10 years ago

71 78 10 years ago

Razengan2• 10 years ago

The group’s members [who opposed Apple's application] include the largest Indian phone brands: Micromax, Intex and Samsung.

Ah.

vacri5• 10 years ago

Meh. Apple is asking to be treated like a special snowflake in this case, caught by their own elitism of not-selling-affordable-phones.

Razengan2• 10 years ago

That may be so, but the "Mobile and Communications Council" (I assume it's a regulatory group) seems to include their direct competition. How sure can anyone be that there's going to be absolutely no conflict of interest?

coldtea5• 10 years ago

caught by their own elitism of not-selling-affordable-phones.

Yeah, and look where that got them. From near bankruptcy in 1997 to being only the most valuable (or in top 3 depending on when you look/how you measure) of companies on the planet.

CharlesW• 10 years ago

A strangely-biased article, starting with the headline. But setting aside the concerns of the companies opposing this for obvious reasons, this is a really great idea.

Consumers in poorer countries get the opportunity to buy used, high-end devices supported by the manufacturer, and those devices get another consumer cycle's worth of reuse before they get recycled. Plus Apple can now reach a large new segment of customers without compromising product quality or new-product margins.

ocean35• 10 years ago

Or they can price it according to the market. How many people in US buy iPhone at full price? Most mobiles are sold at full price in India.

1stranger• 10 years ago

How many people in US buy iPhone at full price?

Everybody. Anybody who doesn't is buying it on credit. They're still paying the full price (and then some).

npunt• 10 years ago

I understand India's desire to push for local manufacturing, and some of this is all just a bunch of theater dancing around that issue. Meanwhile, the Bloomberg article does a good job of letting us read between the lines about the vested interests in keeping Apple out --

“The millions of imported used phones will need their batteries replaced. What will happen to those batteries, where will they go?” asked Sunil Vachani, chairman of Dixon Technologies, whose phone assemblies roll out a million phones a month for brands like Japan’s Panasonic and China’s Gionee.

So what do they do with used batteries from other phones? This has nothing to do with whether a phone is imported or not.

makomk• 10 years ago

If a new phone is sold in India, its Indian owner benefits from the entire multi-year lifespan of the battery before it has to be disposed of. If a used phone is imported from the US to India, its battery will be nearing the end of its life - most of the benefit of that battery goes to the original American owner, but the disposal costs are dumped on India. From this perspective, it's a way for the developed world to dump our e-waste on the developing world and avoid having to dispose of it ourselves.

simonh• 10 years ago

After a few years I'd cracked the screen on my iPhone 4 and the battery was losing it's charge. I took it to an Apple store and they replaced it with a refurbished model for £100 and it's still going strong. The Apple store employee told me the phones get new batteries as part of the refurbishment.

glenndebacker• 10 years ago

"If a used phone is imported from the US to India, its battery will be nearing the end of its life - most of the benefit of that battery goes to the original American owner, but the disposal costs are dumped on India."

If it is a refurbished model with a new battery that won't be the case. I have had refurbished Apple stuff in the past and those things were indistinguishable from new devices and yes that included the battery.

I've I read correctly that a company like Samsung is a member of one the organisations that are complaining, I think there are other stakes at play then the green card. Especially when a company like Apple is involved. There is a lot to be critical about, but they tend to do their best in those departments.

Lawtonfogle• 10 years ago

The fact that the battery needs to be disposed of sooner should be factored into the price of the phone. I don't see the issue if they are willing to accept a battery which will need to be disposed of sooner in exchange for a discount.

FussyZeus• 10 years ago

I've heard from multiple sources that no refurbished Apple iDevice has the original battery, they always replace it.

draw_down• 10 years ago

http://thenextweb.com/opinion/2016/03/21/apple-hypocritical-...

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

mukundmr• 10 years ago

The backlash is just whiney competition. Many people in India see the iPhone as a status symbol. If it is more affordable and comes with a warranty from Apple, people will buy it even if it is refurbished.

arvinsim• 10 years ago

It shouldn't come as a surprise. There are many reasons why the incumbents don't want Apple entering the market.

planetjones2• 10 years ago

There's something deeply contradictory in India's attitude. For imports (including setting up supermarkets in India) there are levys, laws and regulations to make it almost impossible for foreign companies. But then India is able to export its IT professionals and outsourcing across the whole world. Is this really a level playing field?

Why is no one calling this out as foul play? India seems to want one rule for when it is abroad and another when it's at home.

clevernickname• 10 years ago

Donald Trump's trade policy in a nutshell.

brainless2• 10 years ago

I understand what you are saying, but I think it is not true. Being an Indian and having lived there for 30+ years, I can hardly list any major international brand in any industry which isn't selling something there. Also all the big international brands are also big Indian brands, most people do not even care that they are not Indian owned brands.

So yes, huge amounts of foreign brands sell in India, but perhaps with local manufacturing or assembly. It is not a closed country at all.

edit/bid/big

planetjones2• 10 years ago

"We shall not entertain foreign direct investment in multibrand retail. There is no ambiguity or confusion on this. The same applies to e-commerce," the minister said in a news conference.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/india-wont-allow-foreign-investm...

simula672• 10 years ago

Foreign policy is not decided based on consistency. Every democratic government has a responsibility to defend it's own citizen's interests.

USA does this also, it wants free trade when it wants to export goods and services to other nations but opposes it when it comes to importing labor ( H1B VISA cap etc ).

This is not evil, it is this competition between nations that improves standard of living for people everywhere.

mattmanser2• 10 years ago

Labor is not trade.

seanmcdirmid5• 10 years ago

Opposes the importation of labor? Inspite of importing more high-end labor than almost any other country? How can they be opposed to it?

tim3333• 10 years ago

This sort of policy mostly harms India itself and doesn't affect the west that much so there's not much point us calling it out. It's stuff like this that keeps India at around 130 on the Human Development Index, a little above the Republic of Congo in spite of having people bright enough to come and run Microsoft. Go protectionism and bureaucracy!

shripadk9• 10 years ago

Are you serious? How is Human Development Index have anything to do with owning Apple devices? Even if Apple is allowed to sell it's refurbished devices it cannot compete with other phone manufacturers who sell devices with better specs at lowest possible rates. And I'm saying this as an Apple fanboy. That is the reality of Indian market. Human Development Index is mostly because of poverty which cannot be eradicated by Apple selling it's refurbished phones in the secondary market.

pm902• 10 years ago

Trade protectionism is an important tool used by developing countries to develop local industries. Nearly all the Asian tigers benefited heavily from high import taxes for many foreign manufactured and consumer goods. Once local expertise is built up sufficiently, these tarriffs are usually relaxed.

If you go further out in the past, you will see the same thing for the US as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariffs_in_United_States_histo....

shripadk9• 10 years ago

Being an Indian I can also get work outsourced to a developer in a foreign country without having to pay any duty. There are many companies in India that also employ foreign nationals. How can you compare import/export of physical goods with import/export of services/labor? Both are different.

EDIT: Also you are assuming Apple does not have retail stores in India. In fact there are multiple Apple stores in every city in India. There are many who own Apple products but there are many more who purchase Sony/Samsung/Micromax/Karbonn etc as they tend to be less expensive. None of the other companies use India as a dumping ground for second hand phones. Why should Apple be any different?

geon• 10 years ago

dumping ground for second hand phones

Why the negative phrasing? What is wrong with reuse? Would it be any difference if the phones were new? Is it an environmental issue?

seanmcdirmid5• 10 years ago

Apple doesn't have stores in India. Those are Indian-owned retailers licensed to sell Apple products. Indian law won't allow Apple to open their own stores in India like they have done in China.

Apple would only sell second hand phones on India if their was a market for them.

statictype• 10 years ago

In other words, India is trying to look after its own interests instead of being 'fair'.

Is there any country that doesn't do that?

Note: I'm not commenting on whether or not this practice will actually work for India in the long run

anexprogrammer• 10 years ago

I take your point, but India is not exactly unique here.

To name but two, China has similar one-sided regulations and Switzerland has companies that can aggressively mount hostile takeovers of foreign competition, whilst being effectively protected from same (Nestles being the obvious example).

Contradictory attitudes seem quite common!

794CD01• 10 years ago

They want one rule for when it's at home. What rules exist abroad are up to the government of that country, not India.

brainless2• 10 years ago

I find some of the comments really surprising here. If you notice the headline and the article, you will see, this is about "used" phones from a top tier manufacturer. None of the other companies (Samsung, LG, Nokia...) are doing it.

Please do not compare this to Apple not being present in India. It is, in a large way, just not very affordable to masses, which Apple wants to change by selling old, used phones.

Disclaimer: I am an Indian, with an iPhone 6 and its damn easy to find it anywhere in the country.

some1else• 10 years ago

I think Apple would have to have a highly backwards compatible and modular iOS for that to even make sense. I have an old iPhone 4 running iOS 6, and I don't think it passes for a useable device. Apple could make the latest iOS backwards compatible, and find ways to reduce computing requirements by omitting functional or visual features, but that would completely counter the current artificial obsolescence tactics. It's unfair to offload those to a developing market, until they decide to support a greater fragmentation of the platform.

sokoloff3• 10 years ago

I don't see how Apple adding another option is "unfair".

Adding an additional choice for consumers in a market rarely harms those consumers. (An iPhone 4 isn't mass-produced cigarettes.)

Restricting choice for consumers in a market far more often harms them.

_ati2• 10 years ago

If apple is allowed to sell refurbished phones in India surely lot more people will opt for those instead of the cheaper Chinese alternatives or Indian versions and this could be the reason why the manufacturers here don't want Apple in their price segment as it might affect them directly

arihant2• 10 years ago

I don't see how this helps Apple. They offered cheaper versions with 8GB ROMs in India before. It backfired because though they were cheap it was a shitty experience. With iOS 9 underperforming even on iPhone 5S, I don't see how this more will do anything but tarnish Apple image further.

Indian customers do not want to spend less. They want to spend as much as they can but expect longevity and quality. Historically Apple has provided that.

Apple's iPhone 5S is 20K in India. Fairly affordable for an iPhone. If they are selling refurbished, they are trying to probably nibble at Moto G buyers. Even if they succeed, they are not a segment that is expected to exceedingly spend on App Stores or iCloud storage. That is the segment expecting things like Bluetooth file transfer. That is the segment not paying 1500/month for a decent plan which has enough LTE.

All of Apple's moves these days are operational. It almost seems like COO has a complete run of the brand. Move the inventory. That's all that matters.

Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash

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