Only 20% of people who can use Apple Pay have done so

http://time.com/money/4139330/apple-pay-unused/

by lnguyen • 11 years ago

28 69 11 years ago

time.com

therealidiot• 11 years ago

I saw someone awkwardly trying to use their Apple watch to pay for something the other day. It was kind of funny.

I wonder what the numbers would be like in the UK, where contactless payment is already fairly widespread...

TheOtherHobbes• 11 years ago

I'm not in London, but also not in a tiny village. In this large town I've literally seen exactly one person wearing a Watch in the last year.

My local big supermarket doesn't have contactless, so doesn't support ApplePay.

In other stores, I've never seen it being used.

I suspect there's been some take-up in London - but Apple really haven't killed this one, especially considering that iPhones are everywhere.

dogma11383• 11 years ago

Almost every store I've been too has Apple Pay and contactless support the only places I haven't seen contactless being supported so far are small mom and pap's store/kiosks which I would be weary of using a card in in the first place (seen enough worldpay PED terminals held together with tape for a life time).

Barclays is still refusing to support Apple Pay since it's trying to kick of it's own payment service but other than that everyone supports it even Tesco.

I haven't seen anyone paying with the apple watch it would be rather awkward based on how most card readers are positions but it's very easy and quick to pay with the phone.

roflchoppa• 11 years ago

I like paying with it, from how the protocol was designed i feel like its less likely to have my credit card info leaked. I find that the biggest issue when paying is that the POS system is on its own mission (fucking hate that weight system (plz return your item to the bagging area)). So i might have to try to complete the payment multiple times before it submits.....

rm_-rf_slash• 11 years ago

I love the convenience of Apple Pay, but most vendors don't have it. Pretty much the only place that I've used it regularly is Wegmans, but if I'm buying beer I have to show my ID and at that point I may as well pay with my card.

I like Apple Pay, I really do, but there's hardly enough vendor adoption. Hard to see where the blame lies, aside from the obvious chicken-and-egg problem.

jpmattia• 11 years ago

but most vendors don't have it.

Is there any financial incentive for them to do the work on installing and maintaining yet another payment method?

dangoor• 11 years ago

The sort of is, now. Retailers in the US that don't support chip cards now have to accept the liability for fraud. For many retailers, that means getting new credit card terminals... and if you're upgrading your credit card terminal, I'm guessing the new one would support contactless payments as well.

mikeyouse2• 11 years ago

The big incentive came in October of this year, the liability for fraudulent payments at the terminal switched from the card issuer to the merchants accepting payments. This is in coordination with the roll-out of Chip cards in the US. So basically, all merchants are going to have to upgrade their terminals soon and it really makes no difference to their back end whether you pay via credit card or Apple Pay.

http://www.emv-connection.com/understanding-the-2015-u-s-fra...

rbritton• 11 years ago

The only incentive I can think of is a potentially lower rate of fraud/chargeback.

RyJones• 11 years ago

only place I've had a seamless experience is a Coke machine in the Best Western in Moscow, Idaho. Everywhere else has sucked or not worked.

mikeyouse2• 11 years ago

That's a weird way to phrase what's going on..

    Of the 20% who had [used Apple Pay], most (56%)
    only used it about once a week.

So something like 11% of iPhone 6/6s owners use Apple Pay every week? There's something like 30 million phones in that category in the US, so maybe 3 million people use Apple Pay every week. That's "hardly anyone"?

As more and more phones gain capability with the upgrade cycle and as more vendors install contactless terminals, Apple Pay (and Samsung / Android Pay) are going to grow like crazy. Is there a company on earth who would be disappointed with 3 million weekly users, especially when they get a cut of each transaction?

Albright• 11 years ago

This. It's sort of like the "The Apple Watch is a failure!" articles when the Apple Watch has outsold every other smartwatch combined.

Sometimes it kind of feels like the dinosaur press is really trying its damnedest to bring back the "beleaguered" days.

boxidea• 11 years ago

One of my favorite articles like this, from 2 years ago:

This morning Apple (NASDAQ: AAPL) announced a record-breaking weekend for sales of its new iPhone 5S and 5C. In the first 72 hours more than 9 million phones were sold in 11 countries around the world.
To me though, all this over-the-top fanfare and even the record-breaking first weekend of sales could actually be cause for concern.
Let's face it this new iPhone is just an upgrade, a refresh, dare I say a sequel.

Yes. that's exactly what it is. And it sells like crazy.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2013/09/why-record-ipho...

wklauss• 11 years ago

That is what you get when you start working on an article looking for a headline instead of digging in the facts.

Apple Pay (or Google Pay or Samsung Pay) are far from being a mainstream phenomenon but I see a lot of pretty happy users once they discover them. It will take time, but I don't think the situation is as dire as the headline implies.

Aleman360• 11 years ago

I don't see any advantage to it vs. a card with a chip. The card has no battery, is more durable, and can be replaced for free.

kingnight• 11 years ago

I think the argument is convenience.

Battery/Durability seem like pretty empty arguments when comparing something that exists in software to something physical since if that was the case most things done on computer would lose.

Also, it's not like you have to replace your phone when you need to replace your credit card #.

Chip cards seem quite a bit more inconvenient than non-chipped cards at least with the chip readers they've started using in the US. Non-chip is a quick swipe interaction vs the chip card has to stay in the length of the transaction processing which for some reason even the non wireless readers take up to a minute to complete.

iLoch• 11 years ago

This comparison is bad, because a card doesn't have a screen, Internet, phoning capability, Kwazy Cupcakes, or a camera.

The point of NFC payments on phones is so that you don't have to use your card, which is in your wallet, while your phone is in your hand.

jinushaun2• 11 years ago

I usually already have my phone in my hand checking Facebook/Twitter/Instagram while waiting in line?

dogma11383• 11 years ago

I actually wonder if there will be a different ratio in EU countries which are far more accustomed to both contactless chip & pin payments and where cash transactions are much less common e.g. almost everyone pays even for small things like coffee using a card rather than cash.

Sure when you calculate the amount of money transferred cards are the king even in the US but in overall number of transactions and especially in low value (under 50$) the picture changes and the lower you go the more likely you will pay with Cash. In Europe the picture is quite different as debit, credit, and local chip & pin wallets remain dominant both in high and low value transactions.

On the anecdotal side I went through my bank statements online and I withdrew cash only 6 times this year in the UK for a total sum of 270 GBP which is nothing. I rarely use cash the only time I use cash is if i go to a festival or a street market or something similar.

scblock• 11 years ago

The trouble is retailers. I'd use it everywhere if people would support contactless payments. It's how I pay at Sprouts every time.

Heck, Kroger has new terminals that should support contactless payments AND chip based payments, but neither work. Same with my liquor store. Same with IKEA. At IKEA the terminal has a card slot but also has a note taped to it saying "please swipe". At the other two the slot simply does nothing.

But it's more fun to blame Apple and "apathy" than how broken payments are in the US.

jinushaun2• 11 years ago

Countless times at Whole Foods and Home Depot where I walk up to the terminal with my phone and the cashier says, "Sorry, it doesn't work". These are flag ship Apple Pay retailers.

Zelphyr• 11 years ago

Could just be your particular store. I use Apple Pay frequently at my local Whole Foods.

zippergz• 11 years ago

I think this is often just ignorant employees (not their fault; they probably haven't been properly trained). I've run into the "that doesn't work" thing at Whole Foods a couple of times, and both times it worked perfectly when I insisted on trying it. The employee was amazed, and said they'd never seen it work before.

I have run into problems at Subway, which is supposedly an official Apple Pay merchant. I can almost never get it to work there (and often they keep the terminal behind the register, so you have to ask for it and convince the employee to give it to you if you even want to try).

qyv• 11 years ago

Retailers don't support it because, like it or not, almost no one is trying to use it. And it isn't just the US, up here is Canada it is even worse I am betting. And honestly, I can understand this perfectly. I have a VISA card with chip-and-pin and contactless that I can use nearly anywhere in the world and it has a plethora of benefits that I don't get with Apple/Google payments.

sbd01• 11 years ago

Exactly. My local HEB has NFC icons on every terminal, but they're all disabled.

tyfon• 11 years ago

In Norway about 80% of the POS terminals have support for NFC payment, however all the retailers have disabled them.

The reason is that we have a national debit card system that is paid for by the banks (and indirectly the consumers) and not the merchants. Enabling the NFC payments would result in them having to pay surcharge on most transactions.

The terminals do support credit cards but almost everyone use the national system called BankAxept.

There are some national NFC providers on the way from the banking groups, but I think it's really stupid to develop something that only works locally.

ryandrake• 11 years ago

I'd love to understand the logic of why a retailer would buy all these payment terminals that "don't work". I run into this scenario a lot in the stores I frequent: I notice that the store has a fancy new payment terminal with the RFID logo on it. Great! Try Apple Pay. Cashier: "Sorry I don't think that works." OK, I pull out my physical card and slide it into the EVT (chip card) slot. Cashier: "Nope, that doesn't work either. Can you just swipe it?" OK, so you went to all the trouble to buy these fancy new payment systems, and you're still doing everything the 1980's way?

misaelm• 11 years ago

Those terminals "don't work" yet. The hardware as you mentioned is there (slot/RFID) but it needs to be enabled by the software loaded to the POS for it to work.

marc22• 11 years ago

I tend to use it when possible. Aside from cashiers at Whole Foods, I have gotten a surprised reaction of "I didn't know you could do that!" from most of the places that I've used it.

Only Game Stop asked for ID to go along with the Apple Pay. I tend to think that an additional id is not really necessary.

Bud2• 11 years ago

Not only is it unnecessary, but you should object. The entire point of Apple Pay is that it is both very secure and completely anonymous. The retailer doesn't need to know your identity and track your purchases. No information about you is passed to the retailer during an Apple Pay transaction: not your name, not your account number, not the type of card you are using. Nothing. Which is how it should be.

The retailer is assured that you are the valid account holder by the fact that Apple Pay can't work without a validated iPhone present, which the user has unlocked with either a security code or a fingerprint. Stolen iPhones are accounted for by the fact that such phones can be easily and instantly disabled or bricked by the user.

frandroid• 11 years ago

There are lots of contactless POS in Canada, and Apple Pay just got here. But it's still just Amex. Not exactly mainstream...

Boxbot2• 11 years ago

Another issue is the lack of participating banks. All of my credit cards work with Apple Pay (and I use it multiple times a week) but all of my parents' cards and a bunch of my friends' cards are simply not supported.

I like Apple Pay, but with EMV rolling out in the US and the CurrentC consortium trying to kill credit card use in the retail space entirely I don't know whether it's ever going to be able to reach wide-spread adoption.

vitd2• 11 years ago

CurrentC will never take off. It requires a debit card and a bunch of personal information and puts all of the burden of dealing with fraud on the customer. Users aren't going to be signing up for it in any sort of numbers like they will (and have) with ApplePay, I'd bet. If I go into a store and they either don't take credit or charge extra for credit, I literally stop going there.

Boxbot2• 11 years ago

I agree that CurrentC will (hopefully) never take off but it has already had a chilling effect on Apple Pay adoption. There are many stores that used to allow NFC tap-to-pay but actually disabled that functionally entirely to prevent people from using Apple Pay specifically.

e.g. pre Apple Pay I used to be able to use tap-to-pay with an actual credit card at CVS but they've disabled that functionality on all their payment terminals to block Apple Pay. Now I can just go to Walgreens but that doesn't change the fact companies are actively taking steps to retard the growth of Apple Pay.

annon• 11 years ago

I think there's still too much social friction. It's really convenient and fast most of the time, but there are several road blocks that I've run in to that made me wish I just swiped my card. Most of these will go away with time.

1. Their hardware doesn't support RFID, or it has a RFID logo but is disabled.

2. The store owner doesn't know how it works, or is concerned and thinks it didn't work because they're unfamiliar with it.

3. The store owner or people in line think its cool, haven't seen it before, and want a demo.

4. The store owner or people in line act like I'm a techno-douche and don't understand why I didn't just swipe a card like a normal person because I'm holding everybody up trying to make it work with their busted RFID reader.

When none of those things happen, it's a great experience, especially on the watch.

nsxwolf2• 11 years ago

Yeah, I notice that I feel guilty when I test out an unfamiliar POS with my watch. Like I'm being looked at with scorn by others.

I should just be annoyed that the place doesn't have the technology.

crusso2• 11 years ago

5. At the end of the process you still feel that annoyance at having to pick up a pen to sign for the transaction and click some acceptance buttons. (happened to me at Best Buy yesterday)

erikcw• 11 years ago

RE #4 -- I always just start the Apple Pay transaction while the cashier is still scanning my items. In fact I do the same when swiping a card. Almost all payment terminals support collecting your payment information before the clerk has finished tallying up your transaction. Shaves a couple of seconds off the total experience regardless of whether I'm using a card or RFID....

Sindrome• 11 years ago

I have tried to use Apple Pay on my iWatch about 12 times at retailers that have stickers which say "Apple Pay Accepted Here". It has worked 2 times. Just didn't work at all 7 times. 3 times it actually broke the POS system on the register and they had to move me to another register. I just can't be bothered to use it anymore. I just look like an idiot trying.

thegayngler2• 11 years ago

I've never not had Apple Pay on my Apple Watch work. I use it like everyday on the way to work.

thegayngler2• 11 years ago

It's definitely my preferred method of payment. Retailers who don't use NFC related tech like Apple/Google Pay are the last ones to get my dollars.

A friend of mine and I were just talking about Apple/Google Pay this morning and she said it was a lifesaver when she forgot her wallet. I think for most people this is how they will end up using their Apple/Google Pay at first. Then they will claim it's the most amazing thing ever as my friend told me this morning when she went shopping and forgot her wallet.

jedberg• 11 years ago

I live in Cupertino and I've barely seen anywhere that even accepts it, and I can only assume that we have possibly the highest penetration of independent retailers anywhere on the planet.

In fact, the only place I see it used consistently is the Apple corporate cafe.

bovermyer2• 11 years ago

I don't use Apple Pay for one very simple reason: it's an automatic habit to reach for a card.

I am not actively choosing NOT to use it. I just have no compelling reason to use it despite my card habit.

jonahx• 11 years ago

This is the crucial impediment faced by any new process seeking to replace an entrenched one. Being better is not enough, unless the improvement is massive. The force of habit is just so strong.

bovermyer2• 11 years ago

Interestingly, I got downvoted for my comment. Not sure why, since it's an observation that I'm sure more than one person has. Per your comment, it would seem to be a part of human psychology.

feld• 11 years ago

It's not well advertised, but I use it everywhere that accepts it when I'm not using cash.

FussyZeus• 11 years ago

I sure as hell don't, assuming the retailer accepts at all (most up here don't), the cashier almost never knows how to make it work and looks at me like I'm trying to pull a scam when I pull my phone out instead of my wallet.

Joys of living in the backwoods.

xasos• 11 years ago

It's a bit surprising since Apple Pay has, by far, one of the better UXs for a wallet application. Adding cards is really easy and paying with Touch ID is really simple and intuitive.

I imagined that once Apple finally came out with a mobile payments solution, Mainstream America would pounce on it, but it hasn't seemed to happen yet (or maybe ever).

jon-wood• 11 years ago

For wallet apps it may well be best, but the UX doesn't beat my actual wallet, which contains several contactless cards.

mcphage• 11 years ago

but the UX doesn't beat my actual wallet

Why not? You don't need to pull out your wallet, find the right card. You just put your phone (which I'm already holding when I'm waiting in line, but maybe that's me).

lucian1900• 11 years ago

I quite like it.

It may count as separate, but it's also really useful for paying on the phone itself. It's how I always pay on Just Eat.

Bud2• 11 years ago

I use Apple Pay regularly at Trader Joe's, Peet's Coffee, Whole Foods, Walgreens, and various other places. Success rate is 100% at most of those stores. For Walgreens, implementation is still rather spotty; works great at some stores, others have had broken readers or have said that their new readers were coming soon, but not there yet.

It's especially handy for occasions when I'd rather not bring my wallet, such as workouts.

mwfunk• 11 years ago

The headline is "Hardly Anyone Is Using Apple Pay", but the first sentence of the actual article is "Only 20% of people who can use Apple Pay have done so." That sounds...pretty freaking good? I think of Apple Pay as being mildly successful given how hard it's been for competing systems to get any traction over the last 5 years or so, but I would have guessed that that number was more like 10%.

I also consider Android Pay to be mildly successful, but AFAIK it has about the same level (or less?) of popularity and support. It's just fundamentally not the kind of service where the criteria for success is defined by adoption by a plurality of compatible device owners.

All of these different payment systems are just struggling to gain traction- over the next couple of years, I would consider "success" for any of them to just be getting enough growth and support to stay alive. Once the market has decided that one or more of these systems gets to stick around long-term, then we can start being disappointed that only a few tens of millions of people are using them.

gherkin0• 11 years ago

Honestly, the user experience of paying by credit card is just getting too complicated. Which of the 3 contact-less payment vendors can you use? Do you hand your card to the cashier or not? Do you swipe it or insert it (who knows, the cashier has to tell you)?

I miss the days when you just handed your payment (cash, card, check) to a trained cashier, and they just handled the rest.

egypturnash• 11 years ago

In my current bag, my phone is a lot easier to access than my wallet. So I use Apple Pay wherever I can.

I can't really use it many places. So far it's mostly Trader Joe's and Walgreens. Local coffee shops, farmer's market, I gotta take out the cards. But this will change; a few years ago I had to bring cash to the farmer's market and now everyone there can swipe a card with their smartphone.

It'll be interesting to see what the small-vendor uptake of Square's NFC reader is when it comes out...

guelo• 11 years ago

It's a dumb idea. Pulling out a card and swiping is quick and easy. And youre not fumbling with a $900 computer while people wait behind you, for no benefit. They'd have to pay 2-3% cash back for people to switch. But that's the money the banks and phone companies want for themselves.

rib3ye• 11 years ago

Here in San Francisco, I only see it my local independent grocery store, Walgreens, and Whole Foods (where I don't regularly shop). Not Lowes, Safeway, Bevmo, not any restaurant or liquor store, of course.

digital43• 11 years ago

I've only had luck with Apple Pay in Trader Joe's and Panera so far. Discover is doing 10% cash back for payments made in Apple Pay until the end of the year so I've been trying hard to find any stores that accepts it, but couldn't find that many places. If it were accepted by more retailers (e.g. CVS, Stars Market), I can see it being more widely used.

By the way, I remember Target, CVS, and some other retailers were working on their own payment system using QR code. I wonder what happened to it.

crusso2• 11 years ago

Upvoted for the headsup on the Discover card alone. Every time I've tried to add my Discover card to my Apple wallet, I've been told that Discover does not yet support it.

I would use Apple Pay 100% of the time if it were available. In particular, I long for the day when you can pay with Apple Pay at restaurants so you don't have to hand off your credit card to someone who disappears with it and comes back later.

This Christmas I promised to help set some relatives up with Apple Pay and show them how to use it.

RockyMcNuts• 11 years ago

interesting, I use it at Trader Joe's and Whole Foods, quicker than card.

When it works, it works. I can't imagine it won't be standard to pay by phone, with integrated loyalty program.

Meanwhile the chip cards are perceived to be slower than magnetic strip. How is that even possible?

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-shoppers-are-so-annoyed-wi...

and never mind the insanity of MCX and CurrentC http://gizmodo.com/how-corporate-greed-is-trying-to-kill-app...

It's only been about a year and I have to think Apple is pretty well positioned to get people using phones, have a feature that works better than Android, and eventually get a nice vig.

If the merchants and banks and credit card companies don't get their heads out of their butts, Apple could even end up being a tail that wags the dog and running the table on payments.

davidf18• 11 years ago

I've used it at many places in NYC: Walgreens, Duane Reade, Whole Foods, McDonalds, a local grocer, vending machines, Apple Store, Best Buy.

An important point is that Apple uses a token and not your CC for paying and thus you protect your CC from hacks. When I tell people this advantage (Do you remember Target, Lowes hacks?) they are very interested.

You can also conveniently look up your last few transactions on the phone.

vitd2• 11 years ago

Until last week, I had an iPhone 5S and an Apple Watch, which is also a combination that works for paying with Apple Pay. I tried several places that claimed to support it, and it didn't appear to work. It took me several months to realize that I had to have the "Wallet" app open on the watch and had to double-click the side button to put the watch in the mode where it's ready to pay. Then you have to get it close to the terminal to work. I bet half the problem is that users don't know the interface for making a payment. My memory of the keynote where this was introduced was that you just held the watch up to the terminal and it paid. That's not the reality of how it works. And cashiers generally don't know how it works, so they can't help you.

massysett2• 11 years ago

Apple Pay does not solve a problem for me when shopping at a cash register. Maybe there would be slight benefit if I had a Apple Watch, which I don't.

It would be great if I could use it more online though. I think I used it once and I didn't have to input my name and address. Pecking this out on an iPhone is a pain.

dogma11383• 11 years ago

What problem is that? It's quicker than C&P it's more secure than a swipe, you can have all your cards on a single device and select the one which you want to use for each transaction (e.g. to get offers / discounts).

The watch actually is quite more awkward than a phone to use, but Apple pay is definitely convenient, and if you forget your wallet allot it's quite a god send if it's widespread where you live (like it is atm in London).

I can pay for all of my daily expenses with Apple pay atm, this includes transfer (TFL), food and coffee, cloths, electronics, groceries everything.

Is it superior to contactless credit cards? The only big clear difference is that it's not capped in the amount (although some retailers might implement their own cap on contactless) whilst most credit cards limit the amount to anywhere between 10(HSBC debit) to 50GBP(Amex).

massysett2• 11 years ago

Issuers pay for fraud so I don't care about security. I don't need to have access to multiple cards. The phone is worth hundreds of dollars and if I have to futz with it at checkout there's a risk I will drop it. That risk is not worth it when I can pull a plastic card out of my pocket.

If I had the watch at least I wouldn't have to fish the phone or a card out of my pocket.

heavymark• 11 years ago

More accurately, hardly anyone is offering it consistently.

I would love to use Apple Pay everywhere but it's simply not really available. For instance everytime I go to get gas I'd love to but no gas stations appear to support it. I go to Starbucks several times a week and use their app to pay but no option to use native apple pay (only as a payment source). Subway is suppose to offer it but the ones near me don't. A few stores that are suppose to, I've tried but the register person didn't click the right button and ended up crashing the system and had to use a card. Some stores say they support NFC but specifically block Apple Pay for competitive reasons.

Whole Foods is pretty much the only place I know I can use it and have it work. So I think it comes down to waiting for major players to start offering it like gas stations and starbucks so that people will be able to use it consistently in their daily lives.

maherbeg• 11 years ago

I'm having the similar troubles with terminals that only allow chip and signature or terminals that have a chip slot but only allow swiping.

I've found that if you read carefully it will tell you whether to "insert" or "swipe" your card...old habits die hard.

This is what happens, I try Apple Pay, a lot of times it doesn't work. Pull my card out and insert it. Also doesn't work. Finally I swipe the damn thing and ta-da back to normal.

I almost wish Apple would use geofencing to let us know if the retailer supports Apple Pay or not so I can quickly abort the mission ahead of time.

swagv• 11 years ago

Only 20% of people who can use Apple Pay have done so

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