Solitary Confinement Is Cruel and All Too Common

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/03/opinion/solitary-confinement-is-cruel-common-and-useless.html

by zabramow • 11 years ago

179 146 11 years ago

Another thing not mentioned in the article is the fact that a lot of small jails in the US have instituted a 23-hour lockdown policy, similar to super max prisons. So now socializing and free time out of your cell is rare, and lockup is the norm. I don't think they truly care too much about rehabilitation, so much as they care about control. Just my humble opinion.

Loughla• 11 years ago

When you have a building designed for 500 people, and hold 750 every day, you do what you have to to avoid large-scale violence. I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just saying why it exists.

Prison overcrowding is a thing across the US.

minthd• 11 years ago

Even with such limitations to prevent violence, it's extremely easy and cheap, today, in the digital age, to enable communication between prisoners.

ianstallings2• 11 years ago

Yes that's exactly why, and I do have empathy for the situation. That's why I mentioned the control part. I don't mean that they would rather be oppressive than help. What I really mean is they simply don't have time or money to worry about what happens to these people, because just maintaining control is hard enough. Just keeping the prisoners safe, while keeping yourself, and society safe also, is a very tough job.

esturk• 11 years ago

"California will end indefinite solitary sentences. In all, the reforms are expected to reduce the state’s solitary population, which is now over 2,800, by more than half."

So they only ended indefinite solitary sentences. The definite sentences will stay. The main issue this opinion column raises is that it took several hundreds of inmates to form a class action for the change to take effective. The settlement will mean that the issue isn't being ruled as 'cruel or unusual punishment' so there's very little change that is making through the court system in the country.

baldfat4• 11 years ago

What do they do with the supermax prisons where all the inmates are in solitary confinement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermax_prison

Just to be blown away read the population in one supermax in Colorado. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADX_Florence#Notable_current_i...

Scary.

robwilliams3• 11 years ago

What's scarier is who's inside the prison.

GordonS2• 11 years ago

When the suit was filed in 2012, 500 of these inmates had been held for more than 10 years in tiny, windowless cells with virtually no human contact

That is just... horrifying... evil even.

10 years in solitary confinement... it's just unthinkable what that would do to someone

awicklander• 11 years ago

And just won the appeal in 2015. So 13 years. Alone.

mason2406• 11 years ago

If they are not in solitary confinement, they are being confined with other people.

Would you want to be the confined with someone who has a history of being violent with his cell mates?

GordonS2• 11 years ago

The only 2 choices shouldn't be solitary confinement or being beaten/raped/murdered by fellow inmates.

I would have thought that surely most inmates would just want to get their head down and serve out their sentence?

knodi1232• 11 years ago

Extreme false dichotomy. Most people in prison are not violent psychopaths eager to murder anyone they can get their fingers on.

sixothree3• 11 years ago

There do exist other alternatives.

Perdition2• 11 years ago

Solitary doesn't just mean single occupancy cells, it means separation from most human contact.

They could easily have groups of cells where inmates are confined individually but can still have non-physical contact with other prisoners.

And as most of those in solitary aren't raving psychotics (mostly they attacked guards or rival gang members, an issue largely due to prison overcrowding) they could be allowed monitored time in the yard with other prisoners.

jonknee3• 11 years ago

Considering the inmates in solitary are the ones suing because it is cruel I think that answer is quite apparent. Yes, people would rather be with people even if those people aren't perfect.

zachwooddoughty• 11 years ago

From the article:

The offenses that landed them in solitary? Most often, it was evidence that they were "affiliated" with a prison gang, whether or not they had broken any rules.

Solitary isn't being used as a last resort for people who have killed previous cellmates -- it's being used for all sorts of things.

I think solitary makes sense for people who are already unable to coexist with other inmates, but that doesn't seem to be the main use at the moment.

AndrewKemendo• 11 years ago

I wonder if I am an outlier in that I have a massive paranoia about being thrown into jail randomly because of being in the wrong place at the wrong time or cops executing a warrant on the wrong house.

Maybe it's because I am mixed race and grew up in a poor minority neighborhood but it seems like the system is just eager and waiting to put everyone in it. Kind of like a low grade terror all the time.

theseatoms• 11 years ago

Have you read 'The Trial' by Kafka? Maybe you shouldn't, but it's a good read.

cven714• 11 years ago

Reminds me of the intro to Brazil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSQ5EsbT4cE

jonlucc• 11 years ago

I started thinking about this a lot while listening to the last season of Serial. At times, there is enough doubt in the case to think that he might have been just a high school boy who's girlfriend was heinously murdered. Then, next thing you know, he's being arrested and the state is demanding that he account for his whereabouts 6 weeks ago.

astazangasta• 11 years ago

I recently went to traffic court where i watched a young central American man get funneled into providing the state with free labor, merely because he was vulnerable and the opportunity was there. Our judicial system is for chewing up poor people. But it was ever thus; high-minded notions of justice cannot be carried by bureaucrats.

thesagan2• 11 years ago

I noticed the same thing one time in a very similar circumstance. One guy after another being assigned to state work that very day.

mason2406• 11 years ago

The court is an inefficient way of providing the state with free labor. He could have skipped the court and just gotten a job and started paying income taxes.

ManFromUranus2• 11 years ago

Our judicial system is for chewing up poor people

Hyperbolic statement with absolutely no details about this situation? Seems legit.

Raphmedia4• 11 years ago

To be honest, I'm afraid of travelling (to America even) and of leaving the relative safety of Canada because of that.

I've heard so many stories about people ending up in jail in the USA or Mexico or other countries from things that would be considered minor and them having to fight their way out of it.

Missed bribe there, racist cops there, at least I'm safe home where the only time I have to worry about the police is during protests.

thesagan2• 11 years ago

My cousins live in London, Ontario, but spend maybe 1/2 of their time in the states, where their mother (my aunt) was born and raised. They cross the border all of the time.

They love to joke about the Canadian attitudes towards their risk exposure coming into the states; although it has become more frustrating to cross the border, the mythology is a bit hyped.

I would say, however, and they'd probably agree, you'll find a huge variation in policing between regions and urban areas vs rural ones. I'm from the country (now in the city) and rural cops scare me more than urban cops because... hard to express.

drzaiusapelord• 11 years ago

Missed bribe there

Lived in the US my whole life and never had to bribe anyone. Europe? I've bribed people more than a few times to get shit done. Mostly Eastern, but the idea that the US is on par with Mexico via corruption is fairly laughable.

wil4213• 11 years ago

Please don't use what you hear on the internet to base your option of the USA. Spent my whole life here and I have never once had to bribe anyone period.

If you tried to bribe a cop you would be immediately thrown in jail.

That being said just be respectful and they will be respectful back. Its been working for me for 29 years.

cylinder• 11 years ago

Bribe? Give me a break.

tremendo• 11 years ago

Anecdote. I am originally from México, living in the U.S. for over 20 years now where I have not, in all that time, had a problem with police. I've been stopped, and treated with respect. In México as a teen it was not the horror stories that most Americans believe, but well, "less civilized". I travel there on occasion without event always. Except once last year, I made the mistake to drive into México in a black car with tinted windows. I was stopped and interrogated at every opportunity, fined for going 60 Km/hr (40 mi/hr) on the "International" highway. In my experience having an education and being able to communicate coherently will save you from trouble in the US, but not necessarily in Mexico, if you happen to be unfortunate enough to attract the attention of cops, unless you can convince whomever that you have certain connections or "levers" (palanca) that you can use if needed.

robwilliams3• 11 years ago

You fear entering the USA because you're afraid you'll go to prison? How often do you think random people get through into jail for "things that would be considered minor"? Racist cops are outliers and I've never heard of anyone bribing an officer.

Come to America and your opinion will change almost instantly. The anti-US fear-mongering on this forum is incredible; it's as if all 300+ million of us are living in a dystopian police state where one wrong word gets you thrown in solitary.

baldfat4• 11 years ago

Being arrested due to a mistake by police is my only reoccurring nightmare ever since I was 13. Usually it is a bank robbery.

Sadly one of my friends were arrested and convicted of a crime with not one piece of evidence besides one person saying something about them. They could have plea bargained for 18 months but instead they thought I am innocent so might as well be found not guilty. He got 12 years.

adekok• 11 years ago

Uncorroborated accomplice testimony is insufficient to convict someone. See https://www.justia.com/criminal/docs/calcrim/500/708.html, among others.

Why was he convicted? Because the law matters only when it's convenient.

I used to believe that "ignorance of the law is no excuse". I no longer do. The people enforcing the laws (prosecutor, judge, police, etc.) are explicitly protected from misapplying the law. There are excuses for them for not knowing the law, or not applying it correctly.

I claim the same rights as them. If ignorance of the law is an excuse for them, it's an excuse for me.

And yes, on the bare face of it, your friend should have been found not guilty.

leaveyou• 11 years ago

I don't want to think what will happen to that "witness" after 12 years..

Tomte2• 11 years ago

with not one piece of evidence besides one person saying something about them

There's your evidence. Witnesses are evidence.

sixothree3• 11 years ago

I don't think it's that paranoid. Our criminal justice system is far from perfect. I've heard estimates that up to 10% of people imprisoned are innocent of that particular crime. And just look at the number of people on death row who have been exonerated. Cases that get that much scrutiny should have a zero percent change of being incorrect but that's so far from the truth it's shocking.

furyofantares• 11 years ago

Have you made any attempt to estimate the probability of that happening and then compare it to other risks you are able to take without paranoia?

hessenwolf• 11 years ago

1% of people in America are in jail. I don't know what is illegal. That is way outside of my risk management zone.

Raphmedia4• 11 years ago

I would rather travel to the back-countries of a lof of European countries than visiting the USA outside tourist spots.

azraomega2• 11 years ago

Why am I hearing different stories? Some feel like prisoners are being treated too well, some feel like they are being mistreated... and isn't the fact being in a prison with all your freedom being taken away is cruel and all too usual, too? I'm so confused about this discussion.

Brian-Puccio• 11 years ago

My theory is that if I see someone's arm being broken as a form of punishment, the pain and suffering is readily visible, which triggers a sort of empathetic reaction.

But if I see someone in a windowless room by themselves, it's easy to dismiss that as "not so bad". I could even rationalize is and say "I'm an introvert and like quiet" or "general population is probably less safe, this would be better for me". There is no understanding of what it is like to spend weeks (which would do me in, let alone months or years) locked in a cage with no natural light, no calendar, a light that is never turned off and no conversation with anyone else.

Similarly, I've heard and read many people claim waterboarding isn't torture because "all they need to do is hold their breath, they should rationalize to themselves that the captors aren't actually trying to drown them". I believe solitary confinement is cruel because of the psychological effect and shouldn't be used as it is today for the same reasons I think mock executions shouldn't be either. (Sure, you don't kill the person, but you're still psychologically torturing them.)

If you don't believe that humans are social animals and need to interact with other humans on a regular basis, read about feral children [0].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_child

azraomega2• 11 years ago

But what if they gonna stab somebody or somebody gonna stab them? I can see the purpose of solitary confinement. It might have been misused (like everything else). If the solution is better trained prison guard, or an alternative "nicer confine area" which cost more tax money, it seems pointless. Of course we need better prison guard operation process, but all you gonna get is "they are trying their best" kind of answer.

afandian• 11 years ago

Maybe you're hearing different stories because you're listening to more than one person.

pluma• 11 years ago

Solitary confinement is a form of torture. But of course there is no torture in the US. If the US does it, it can't be torture.

jes• 11 years ago

Not saying you are wrong, but here's a different perspective:

http://www.hermitary.com/solitude/nietzsche.html

steve-howard• 11 years ago

From the conclusion:

Nietzsche is a complex and provocative thinker, but he is a clear advocate of the role of solitude in every level of human activity, from philosophical and psychological to creative and societal.

Can't do any of those in solitary confinement. Solitude you choose is quite different than being locked in a small room indefinitely.

sumitviii• 11 years ago

Nietzsche's concept of solitude has freedom. If you feel like you are going insane, you can talk to real people. You can read books.

nnq• 11 years ago

Am I in minority to be the kind of person that would prefer serving something like a 1-5 years sentence in solitary instead of a regular american prison

(Yeah, probably at a 5 years limit or something like that it would be too much and it be psychologically impossible for you to come back to society...)

s_kilk• 11 years ago

I take it you've never been to solitary then?

There's a reason even the most hardened criminals quake with fear at the notion of being put in "The Hole". Isolation grinds away at your mind until you fall apart.

At least in gen-pop you can find someone to talk to, even if they may try to kill you when you turn away.

omginternets• 11 years ago

Respectfully, this is spoken like someone who doesn't realize what solitary confinement actually entails, nor is familiar with the rich body of literature on the subject.

Solitary Confinement Is Cruel and All Too Common

Related Stories