Lost Posture: Why Indigenous Cultures Don't Have Back Pain

http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/06/08/412314701/lost-posture-why-indigenous-cultures-dont-have-back-pain

by miralabs • 11 years ago

102 127 11 years ago

towelguy• 11 years ago

Maybe they don't have the luxury to complain that much.

a8da6b0c91d5• 11 years ago

Back pain in the industrialized world is overwhelmingly psychogenic. It's Tension Myositis Syndrome as described by Dr. Sarno. Given only x-rays images, spine specialists completely fail to identify the individuals who report back pain. Most people with no back pain have various structural abnormalities.

These people getting back pain and carpal tunnel syndrome were all getting ulcers 60 years ago. Then the idea that ulcers are just an infection took hold so the psychogenic manifestations of stress shifted.

tosseraccount• 11 years ago

I suspect a lot is actually from being out of shape; especially being overweight.

mhurron2• 11 years ago

Are you suggesting that back pain and carpal tunnel don't exist?

a8da6b0c91d5• 11 years ago

They exist and are psychogenic. The nervous system, directed by the brain, can induce localized inflammation.

abandonliberty3• 11 years ago

You have the common and popular misunderstanding of psycogenic illnesses.

Does this mean that the sickness is “all in my head”? No, it doesn't. The people who are in these outbreaks have real signs of sickness that are not “imagined.” They really do have headaches, or they really do feel dizzy. But their illness is not caused by a poison or a germ.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2000/1215/p2655.html

maccard3• 11 years ago

Plenty of people have MRI scans that can show herniated discs. Have a look at [1] for a very clear image of what you can see in some obvious cases. Obviously some aren't as clear as the image below, but mine for instance was.

[1]http://www.mayfieldclinic.com/Images/PE-HerniatedLumbar_Figu...

a8da6b0c91d5• 11 years ago

Most people have problems like these but experience no pain or functional impairment.

Ankur84• 11 years ago

Then the idea that ulcers are just an infection took hold so the psychogenic manifestations of stress shifted.

It may be that treatments have been developed for those ulcer causing infections. That could be why you're not hearing so much about uclers.

I think the situation might be the opposite of what you're suggesting. It seems ailments that we don't understand are put down to stress. Then we find a physiological cause, and then a cure and then we stop hearing about the issue.

a8da6b0c91d5• 11 years ago

There was a massive decline in diagnosis of peptic ulcers. People just stopped getting them so often in the first place. It's not the case that medicine cured the problem.

anthony_romeo• 11 years ago

Given only x-rays images, spine specialists completely fail to identify the individuals who report back pain.

I'm not surprised. X-rays are not the most reliable in identifying all spinal issues. X-rays are more for finding problems with the vertebra or curvature of the spine, not the discs. An x-ray showing mild degeneration could be produced from the same individual who on an MRI could show a severe disc herniation. I'm not a doctor, but I've worked on developing legal cases for disabled individuals, and an MRI is pretty much mandatory.

Anecdotally, I have a relative who suffered from severe back pain after a lifting accident, but the x-rays didn't show anything. I told him to ask his doctor for an MRI after a number of months, which indeed demonstrated the herniation.

fpgaminer• 11 years ago

While Dr. Sarno's theories were helpful for my carpal tunnel, and apparently for many others, I would be hesitant to apply TMS to all back pain, carpal tunnel, and other "office chair diseases." I know you said "overwhelmingly psychogenic", which implies you meant not all cases. But I'm not sure overwhelmingly is accurate either, especially for back pain. With carpal tunnel, it's clear based on the plethora of cures with random success that calling psychogenic may often be right. But back pain has alternative, and seemingly better explainations (weak muscles, poor flexibility). So while TMS may be the diagnoses for some with back pain, and a contributor for others, I would not go around slapping it on everyone who says they experience back pain.

That said, Dr. Sarno's book is worth the cost of reading. It's very staunchly in the pseudo-science camp, and Dr. Sarno spends a lot of time bemoaning his ostracization from the medical community, but his theories are ultimately interesting, hold some weight, and have been helpful to many. For example, I haven't worn a wrist brace to bed since I read the book (about a year ago). And, even if it hadn't helped, it brought more awareness to just how stressed I was. I do a better job managing my workload and consequently stress these days. Just keep a healthy heaping of skepticism by your side while reading.

tim333• 11 years ago

[citation needed]

WalterSear• 11 years ago

"An acupuncturist in Palo Alto, Calif., thinks she has figured out why."

Ok, lost me right there.

cristianpascu• 11 years ago

I noticed, but looked further. Most people have simoultaneously beliefs of which some are true and some are false. Very educated people don't vaccinate their kids. Which is not to say they are false in any other aspect of life. Indeed, they loose their credibility. But I think it's a matter of critical thinking to be both skeptic and charitable. Otherwise we fall into the classical, but very recent trap: you can't be a scientist and also be religious.

jerf• 11 years ago

Keep reading; in a shocking display of journalistic competence, the journalist interviews someone else who proposes a sensible alternative explanation for the results the acupuncturist may be seeing.

The aforementioned sensible alternative explanation is currently related to one of my pet theories, which at the moment hasn't got enough scientific evidence to make a call either way, but: My theory is that the reason "standing up a lot" seems to help people is that it builds core muscles up, which do think I have sufficient evidence that at least one American, namely, me, did not naturally have a lot of. This A: suggests that the argument that science is currently in the middle of about "how much standing should one do" is entirely misguided, dealing with a secondary if not tertiary variable instead of the real problems... and there is a LONG history of this in the health field, so it's hardly a crazy idea... B: explains why "too much standing" could be a problem... "standing" isn't "good", it's just that it builds core muscles, and too much of it is independently "bad", and C: if true would suggest that one could obtain the benefits of standing, and probably more, by directly focusing on building core strength instead of indirectly and more inefficiently building it.

I call this a "pet theory" because I believe it to be a reasonable harmonization of several current lines of scientific inquiry, and I don't have the evidence to disprove it, but I also lack the evidence to really solidly prove it.

One can see how it might also relate to this article.

Having had at least my own experience with my own core weakness, it is actually somewhat astonishing to me that my core can become so weak as to be a source of pain even in my mid-30s. It would be natural to assume that the very things causing pain would itself spur the core on to grow stronger, but it seems at least in my experience the core needs "superstimulus" to grow large enough to even competently do its main job. (I'm not saying I'm confused as to why that's the case... if one looks at the history of our species and considers the working of natural selection, it's not an impossible or nonsensical outcome. It just wasn't my first guess.)

keslag• 11 years ago

I had the same reaction, but I'm a biologist that cuts code writing server code for a living. I'm rather good at it, and have many graduates, engineers, and a few masters work under my lead. I also know medical doctors that prescribe antibiotics for virus, and PHD's in the sciences that don't understand the basics of evolution or the basics of formal logic.

adamtj2• 11 years ago

Surprisingly, I think your heuristic may have failed this time! Acupunture is pseudoscience and you would normally be right to disregard it, but in this case what Gokhale does for her day job seems entirely irrelevant. This is an article about real science that happens to have been done by a pseudoscientist. It would be a mistake to let her sketchy profession distract you from her legitimate work.

Gokhale might as well have been a paralegal or an engineer. She is an acupuncturist who had recurring back pain that surgery didn't fix, so she went looking for a different answer in a relatively scientific way. She made observations, formed hypotheses, and tested them. It seems they were informal tests and not clinical trials, and one might argue that more research is needed to justify her conclusions, but at least there's standing to have a conversation. Even bad science is can be productively discussed and criticized -- a low bar that pseudoscience fails to cross. The fact that this science was does by a pseudoscientist shouldn't detract from the actual work.

I'm actually surprised the article isn't more about the acupuncturist who is doing real science than about the particular details of the work. That's the most interesting aspect, and it's not even mentioned explicitly as far as I can tell.

sremani3• 11 years ago

Here is some bio on her website:

http://gokhalemethod.com/biography/Esther_Gokhale_L_Ac_

This early interest in healing led her to study biochemistry at Harvard and Princeton and, later, acupuncture at the San Francisco School of Oriental Medicine.

tofupup• 11 years ago

I agree ... my first thought when I saw the teaser was ... the average lifespan for the pre-morden world was about 25. Back pain is a problem in your 40's - 50's I doubt if a culture will change for such a rare problem. It is like us getting rid of all stairs because people in their 60's aren't as mobile. But then if you are willing to believe in acupuncture you are willing to believe in anything.

http://www.webmd.com/pain-management/features/common-pains-o... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy

rafd• 11 years ago

FYI, even in the paleolithic era, if you lived past 15, the life expectancy was 54. [1]

Using average lifespan in your argument portrays a world where no-one lives to their 50s. When in actuality, most adults died in their 50s (but there was a very high level of child mortality which brings down the average).

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy

Dirlewanger• 11 years ago

Everyone knows that weak abdominal muscles can cause back pain. In fact, Mummaneni says, stronger muscles might be the secret to Gokhale's success.

Don't really need to say anything else. Get into weight training and stick to it.

maccard3• 11 years ago

The problem with some back pain is you're unable to walk or bend over, let alone actually exercise, until the pain is masked by something else.

thrownaway122• 11 years ago

So start light. I mean really light. Like lying flat on you back working your core by tensing only specific muscles light. This is how rehab programs start. Then progress. Slowly. Even body weight squats will improve your posture when applied consistently.

rwhitman5• 11 years ago

If you're acute like that there are a lot of exercises that can make the situation much worse, particularly if you don't have a diagnosis and are unsure of where the injury is located.

Best course of action is go to a Dr and push them to prescribe physical therapy over surgery or meds. Once you know the site of your pain and have a good physical therapist they will give you safe exercises that protect from additional injury. Some lazier doctors will often resort to pain killers or worse, surgery, as a quick solution, but in most cases a few sessions with a good physical therapist is all you need

ggordan• 11 years ago

I certainly did notice that my back hurt a lot less once I started weight training. And as an added benefit, people have commented that my posture has improved. So win-win!

tfigueroa• 11 years ago

Proper weight training, to be specific. Learn the movements and be patient, or you really will herniate a disc.

Cymen• 11 years ago

Pilates is a really good place to start for those that already have back pain.

abandonliberty3• 11 years ago

Author's book successful on Amazon: 4.6/5, 600 ratings, gushing reviews from MD PHDs in the Mayo clinic.

Published in 2008.

rwhitman5• 11 years ago

The author mentioned in this article, Esther Gokhale, wrote a book several years ago with the somewhat goofy title 8 Steps to a Pain-Free Back, which I can't recommend enough, especially if you suffer from back pain. It really transformed the way in which I think about my posture and ergonomics in general.

One of the things she touched on in the book, which the NPR article seemed to miss, was a hypothesis that poor posture in the Western world is the result of a cultural shift in the early 20th century. Particularly that slouching and unnatural postures were a sort of rebellious statement against the Victorians for 1920's youth.

Bad ergonomics and posture became so hip that they found their way into furniture design - something that became very clear to me after having a herniated disc and a vintage mid-century couch in my living room..

Someone1234• 11 years ago

Does one really need the book to learn the "secrets?" Is the entire book basically "stand up straight and your back pain goes away?"

Darmani2• 11 years ago

That's a lot of it, except that it turns out that how to "stand up straight" is very counterintuitive. You will hurt yourself if you just try. Really, the book is not enough; you need the class, or at least the videos. They also teach you better ways of walking and bending.

rwhitman5• 11 years ago

No, actually the entire book is just about comparing photographs of people who live in different parts of the world and how they sit / stand / walk etc.. If you wanted to sit for a few hours with google image search it could give the same conclusions really.

The book is more or less a collection of illustrations and photographs of posture and a some exercises for training yourself to pose more like people who haven't been influenced too much by western culture. The author's background and the stupid title makes it sound like alternative medicine wacko snake oil but it's really not

Darmani2• 11 years ago

I took Esther's course in 2013, and it's had a huge effect on my life.

Getting into the correct position involves moving some muscles I didn't know I had, but, once achieved, it feels amazing. Sitting feels like being massaged. I can twist my neck further. When I practice karate, all my movements become faster and easier. The only problem is keeping the posture once achieved, as all your old movements can cause you to revert (and yes, it takes some core strength, but that's a small part).

andrewtbham• 11 years ago

Pro tip:

take a deep breath in and grow tall. Then maintain that height as you exhale.

nate_meurer3• 11 years ago

Thank you, these sorts of cues are among the most valuable things trainers provide in my experience.

djc_tech• 11 years ago

Plus look at toddlers and some Asian cultures. They can squat full dept with no problem. My toddler can squat and stand up without issue. I can - but I've retrained myself and opened up my hips/hamstrings and worked on core strength. baby's mama cannot perform a full depth squat let alone with any weight on the or front rack position. The old Asian lady down the street can and does when she does her gardening.

I think that coupled with a lot of people have at least mild APT because of a weak core is the major issue. It causes hip strain.

rpenm• 11 years ago

I wouldn't be surprised if most of that flexibility in Asian cultures comes from using a squat toilet (or open defecation) everyday.

defen5• 11 years ago

Squats and deadlifts are how I cured my back pain. I recognize that I tend to have a missionary zeal about this subject because I think it has had so many benefits for me...but seriously, if you don't have any health issues that prevent you from doing so, you should be lifting heavy weights with a barbell. Your clothes will fit better, people will be more attracted to you, you'll have more confidence, and you'll be amazed at how strong you become. If you're a healthy adult male under 40, 1 hour a day for 3 days a week will get you to "pick up 400 pounds off the floor with relative ease" within a year.

jonahx2• 11 years ago

If you're a healthy adult male under 40, 1 hour a day for 3 days a week will get you to "pick up 400 pounds off the floor with relative ease" within a year.

I hate to nitpick because I share your enthusiasm, but this claim is not true across the board. Plenty of healthy males won't be able to come close to building that kind of strength in a year. It depends on so many factors like body type and genetics.

vinceguidry3• 11 years ago

It depends on so many factors like body type and genetics.

It really doesn't. What it depends on is your training protocol, and whether you're able to avoid injury or not.

Mark Rippletoe's Starting Strength program, administered by a cautious enough trainer, will get most anyone of those characteristics, healthy adult male under 40, there. It's what Mark does for a living. It may be uncomfortable eating several thousand calories a day if you're skinny, but you can't blame the program for your failure to do that.

I did starting Strength for about 4 months before I got injured, I was well on my way to 400 by that time. I'm not any kind of SS zealot, but I have to, like anyone else whose actually gone through it, recognize the simple effectiveness of the plan. It does exactly what it says on the tin.

jclos3• 11 years ago

While I share the original comment's enthusiasm, I have to agree with your skepticism regarding the timescale. Not only does it not guarantee that level of strength in a year, but it should not even be the goal. The goal of strength training is to be stronger today than you were the day before, and the key to (eventually) getting this level of strength is slow, sustained progress over a long period of time. It's a marathon, not a race. An injured body will not get you stronger.

Just look at Fabri Janos, 70 year old, less than 83kg (182 lbs), pick up 260kg (573 lbs) with relative ease as a proof of that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFCCawnr01U&t=4h40m3s&ab_cha... (timestamp at 4h 40m 3s in case it doesn't work)

defen5• 11 years ago

Fair enough - I wouldn't want to discourage anyone who can't reach that for whatever reason. I would also add that diet and sleep are critical - you'll need enough calories and enough sleep to hit that kind of target.

kelukelugames2• 11 years ago

One of the guys in my gym is a world champ powerlifter but I've only seen him pick up 300 pounds. A lot of us are much lighter than the average American male so a more personal goal might be twice bodyweight.

542458• 11 years ago

1 hour a day for 3 days a week will get you to "pick up 400 pounds off the floor with relative ease" within a year.

Do you have a link to a particular regimen that worked for you?

randlet2• 11 years ago

You will find quite a few beginner programs that you can make tremendous progress on. Some of the most popular are Starting Strength[1], Strong Lifts 5x5[2], and Ice Cream Fitness (ICF)[3]. Anything with progressive overload/linear programming (adding more weight to the bar almost every workout) will work wonders for you.

[1] http://startingstrength.com/

[2] http://stronglifts.com

[3] https://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/jason-blaha-ice-c...

john_fushi• 11 years ago

Not op but http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/shortcut-to-size.html

It's a good 4-days workout program. The goal is to gain mass but it does so by improving strength and endurance, setting up a strong foundation for future workout.

A day took me around an hour on average.

coob• 11 years ago

Starting Strength is commonly presented as good beginner programme:

https://blackironbeast.com/starting-strength

defen5• 11 years ago

Stronglifts 5x5 is what I did

http://stronglifts.com/5x5/

I would recommend finding a reputable gym (e.g. be wary of CrossFit - some are great, some are cash grabs by people who have no idea what they're doing), and pay a trainer for a couple sessions to make sure you have your form right. Having improper form won't really matter when you're starting off with low weight, but as you go heavier it becomes very important, and you don't want to have established bad habits.

dmfdmf2• 11 years ago

I highly recommend the youtube videos by Alan Thrall, very good description of the basic lifts and how to have the proper form so you don't get injured.

HNaTTY• 11 years ago

The book Starting Strength is often touted as the best way to learn the deadlift, front/back squat, overhead press, and bench press. It has a lot of detail about the posture you want during the lifts, as well as how to increase your workloads until you are Huge(tm). In short, you have a program of lifts you do (sets x reps x weight = work), and you increase your work output every time you go to the gym, which means you need to structure your workouts to allow for recovery but not atrophy.

jclos3• 11 years ago

Depending on your time commitment, look up Starting Strength and StrongLifts (45min-1h30 3 times a week, strength oriented), Jason Blaha's ICF 5x5 (1h30-2h00 3 times a week, strength/bodybuilding oriented), Dan John's Easy Strength/Even Easier Strength (30min-45min 5 times a week, extremely strength oriented and very simplistic training). Note than Starting Strength/StrongLifts/ICF5x5 will require you to sleep and eat like it's your job. A lot of people stop progressing just because they can't stand the constant eating.

crdb• 11 years ago

Pretty much agree with this. It worked for me. 10 minutes a week, high intensity, for a couple years, pain was gone in about 2 months and never came back. Just machines, due to getting injured with free weights early, no cardio, no other exercise. Leg press, lumbar, seated row, weighted pull-up, chest press, the occasional bench. Getting stronger is easy and worth it.

sremani3• 11 years ago

Turkish Get-up x 5 (each hand) everyday, cured my shoulder pain.

nate_meurer3• 11 years ago

Fuck yeah. I do a similar movement with big rubber bands. It completely solved my shoulder problems.

rsync2• 11 years ago

I agree wholeheartedly with this and I practice it myself - and have my entire life.

However, if your only goal is to remove (or prevent) back pain, there is an even simpler recipe: walking.

Your body is built to walk. Literally. You are a walking machine. Walking will put your body back into order. Posture, circulation, digestion, metabolism (modestly) ... every function of your body was built to respond to the activity you are built to do: walk.

Nothing to learn, no fees to pay, no equipment to buy. Just walk. Bonus: it's mentally stimulating, interesting, and relaxing. Your mind will respond to it just like your spinal column does.

nate_meurer3• 11 years ago

Hasn't worked for me. I walk and jog 5-10 miles per week, and I use a standing desk. Doesn't do shit for my back as far as I can tell.

To keep my back healthy I must lift. I watch Kelly Starrett's podcasts and do what he says, but with a quarter of the weight. I ain't no lifter, but the light stuff keeps me pretty spry. Shoulders down and back!

dragonwriter4• 11 years ago

You are a walking machine. Walking will put your body back into order.

If you've got bad posture, and you don't work to correct it, more walking will more likely exacerbate the problem than magically fix it. Some people will intuitively figure out the right responses to pain feedback to correct some problems, particularly the easier-to-correct ones, on their own.

Better, though, to work with a trainer (either one-on-one or in any of the many fitness walking training programs you should be able to find) and get direct feedback while walking to correct the issues more quickly.

What worked for me was ballroom dance first (with both group classes and private lessons), then adding fitness walking and weight training, but that wasn't a deliberate strategy aimed at back pain, and certainly isn't likely to be a cost-effective strategy if dealing with back pain is the only goal.

riledhel• 11 years ago

As a side (and anecdotal) note, you still can have bad form while walking due to previous injuries or bad posture. So if you experience lower back pain while walking (as I have in the past) check some videos on good walking technique on youtube or consult with an expert.

nmeofthestate• 11 years ago

I believe squats and deadlifts helped knacker my back. Just anecdata, but I thought it was worth adding another data point. I'll be reading this article in depth in the hope that it offers a solution because I really don't fancy being mildly disabled for the second half of my life.

dmfdmf2• 11 years ago

I can second this and saw the same benefits. However since I am going to the gym anyway, I add bench and overhead press too. That's it and I am out in less than an hour.

I've had back problems since my early 30's (including surgery) and I knew my posture was poor but never was able to improve it until I started lifting. The key is that I don't think you can strengthen your posture muscles by holding the correct posture. You have to strengthen your posture muscles by lifting heavy objects on a weekly if not daily basis then you can easily hold correct posture. As the article mentioned the key is to flex the gluts to hold posture and the deadlift and squats are efficient ways to build glut strength. So in the end the reason why indigenous people don't have back problems is they are not sedentary and have stronger gluts.

sriramk• 11 years ago

I can testify to this. I'm 6'6, turned 30 recently and developed chronic back pain which made walking/standing for over 15-20 minutes painful. I got frustrated and started going to the gym again and doing very basic deadlifts/leg presses/lunges a few times a week. It's been a couple of months and my back is about 70-80% better.

tixocloud• 11 years ago

Just curious but while you're starting off, did you have to push through the pain or did you start after the pain subsided?

thenomad3• 11 years ago

Speaking as someone with posture problems, I'm interested by heavy lifting, but very concerned about the potential for injury.

Do you have any stats on how safe it is, particularly vis a vis back injuries? It seems like a bit of a high-risk wager - if you keep good form in EVERY exercise you do, you get stronger and improve your health, but if you screw up once, you damage your back in a very serious way.

jclos3• 11 years ago

Lifting is actually pretty safe, provided you do it intelligently. But even if you do it recklessly, your body is more resilient that you give it credit for (depending on your age).

The key to strength is longevity. The guy who adds 2.5kg on the bar every session and hurts himself two months later won't end up as strong as the guy who adds 2.5/5kg every three weeks and sustains his progress for 5 years without injury. If you are of a population "at risk" (preexisting condition, etc.) you can set your mind at peace by finding a good coach.

To actually answer your questions, there are some stats here: http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/Safety.html

metamet• 11 years ago

Start with 5 sets of 5 reps on these lifts:

Monday: Squat, Bench Press, Barbell Row

Wed: Deadlift, Upper Press, Pullups

Friday: Squat, Inclined Bench Press, Cable Face Pulls (or another pulling exercise)

Do this for a month and don't worry about how heavy the weight is for a couple weeks, starting with just the barbell. Focus on form (YouTube!) and getting used to the motions.

Go slow. Don't push yourself until you feel comfortable. You can start with negatives or assisted pullups. Hitting a big compound movement (squat/deadlift), a push and a pull is a great rounded way to start lifting.

sageabilly• 11 years ago

Sports injury stats per 100 participant hours in school sports: Powerlifting (USA) 0.0027, Weightlifting (UK) 0.0017 [1]

Among elite competitive weightlifters: Injury rates for the subset of resident athletes at the USOTC were 3.3 injuries (most frequent were tendonitis and muscle strains) per 1000 weightlifting training hours. [2]

"[It's reported that] weightlifting (is) one of the safest sports with 0.0017 injuries per 100,000 hours of participation" [3]

I've been powerlifting for 6 years, was competitive for three of those years, and am friends with and know at least a hundred serious, amateur, competitive powerlifters and weightlifters. My anecdote, with that background in mind, is that I have only seen or heard of injuries happening when people IGNORE their body telling them to stop. So they either put too much weight on the bar, KNOW that it's too heavy for them, and then push through anyway, or they let their ego get in the way and are trying to show off and screw around (this is far more common than the first scenario).

The thing with free weights of any kind is that it's only as dangerous as you make it. YOU are in control of your form, you are in control of how much weight you use, you are in control of the bar path, and you can take it as slow as you want.

[1] Hamill 1994/ http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/Safety.html (lots of good info at that link)

[2] http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Andrew_Fry/publication/7...

[3]http://breakingmuscle.com/olympic-weightlifting/how-dangerou...

kendallpark13• 11 years ago

Suggestions:

1. Join a Crossfit with good trainers. (Look up the reviews online for each box.) People hate on Crossfit all the time, but I can tell you from my experience they have helped me a ton with technique. I was already a very proficient lifter when I joined, but they were able to critique and fine tune stuff at an advanced level.

2. Get a private trainer that works specifically in powerlifting/olympic settings and explain to him exactly what you're going for.

3. Get involved on /r/powerlifting or /r/weightroom on Reddit. On these threads you can find all sorts of great resources and post videos of yourself for form critiques.

kvcrawford• 11 years ago

I would suggest you go to physical therapy. They can help with your posture and advise you on a fitness regimen.

Find a good place where you work with the PT every visit.

snikeris• 11 years ago

...you should be lifting heavy weights with a barbell. Your clothes will fit better, people will be more attracted to you, you'll have more confidence, and you'll be amazed at how strong you become.

And an ox will still be stronger than you.

Your reasons seem a bit...extrinsic.

dragonwriter4• 11 years ago

if you don't have any health issues that prevent you from doing so, you should be lifting heavy weights with a barbell. Your clothes will fit better

Only if you were wearing poorly-chosen clothes for your existing body before. If you aren't already out on the far extreme of the distribution for height or some set of proportions, you can probably find pretty well-fitting off-the-rack clothes, and if you have, they'll probably fit substantially worse if you change your body shape in any way -- whether its by gaining fat, losing fat, gaining muscle, or whatever.

kendallpark13• 11 years ago

Your clothes will fit better

Unless you're female and then your clothes will fit worse. I have to buy two sizes up in dress shirts and hem the waist down just to fit my shoulders into them.

mcculley• 11 years ago

I second this with a caveat. I have a damaged disc between the sacrum and L5. After several years of back pain and a few visits to the emergency room, I took up deadlifting. I deadlift every other day now and have done so religiously for a couple of years, steadily and slowly increasing the weight. I feel it has been very beneficial for my back issues. I have almost none of the pain I had before.

I feel this is a simple remedy that almost no doctor will recommend because of the liability issues.

With that said, I advise extreme caution. I lift every other morning and I feel it is the most dangerous thing I do. I'm very careful to pay attention to my form and take the movement slow. Even on a good day, I can feel that disc moving around. On a bad day, I've slipped the disc and lost progress for a couple of weeks while I recovered. So if you're going to try this, take it slow.

bmj• 11 years ago

And I'll second the caveat. I agree with this and the grandparent--if you are in reasonable shape, and want to maintain that, lifting low (< 5) reps and high weight is a great thing. If you do other activities, you could probably lift 30 minutes, two to three days a week, and see health improvements.

But, yeah, think hard about form, and start lifting too light. What does bad form look like? Start with this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9TVFxPUZ6E

jogjayr• 11 years ago

Squats and deadlifts are how I cured my back pain

This is sort of the same conclusion drawn by the article. A stronger core supports your back better and reduces chances of developing back pain. Squats and deadlifts are among the best exercises to build a strong core.

throwaway12357• 11 years ago

I started reading that as

Squats and deadlifts are how I broke my back

While I take care to contract abs at all times and keep a straight back during SQ, DL and MP, I have been getting some lumbar pain/discomfort. Not when I lift. But typically 1 or 2 days after.

Sleeping is not optimal either as muscles contract. As of lately I find myself sleeping on my side. I know it's the advised posture, but some years ago I could sleep (ie: eventually wake up) with my stomach down with no problems. I can still go to sleep that way, but during the sleep I end up switching position -- and I'm aware of it because I "wake up" for a brief second or so.

Anyway, do you have any tips? Do you ever get sore lumbar spine or overfall back?

rwhitman5• 11 years ago

You're building up core strength which is pretty widely accepted as the best solution to the majority of back problems.

Also can be accomplished with a number of other exercises, particularly planks and related

arca_vorago• 11 years ago

For those who don't want to lift, practicing a good horse stance daily is another good thing to do.

darklajid3• 11 years ago

Unfortunately anything that you cannot do at home easily is not for me - I hate gyms with a passion. Whenever someone tells me how well this worked out for them I consider starting for a second, think of all the implications (no place, too expensive for my apartment => gym) and drop it.

Looking for a decent dumbbell setup for quite a while. Until then I'll stick with running and take up swimming again, maybe.

zargon2• 11 years ago

Have you considered bodyweight training? I much prefer it to weight lifting. I can do it in my home without a bunch of space-hogging equipment. You Are Your Own Gym by Mark Lauren is a good place to start. http://www.amazon.com/dp/0345528581

chc• 11 years ago

Why would anybody want to be able to pick 400 pounds off the floor with relative ease enough to spend 156 hours a year on it? It seems roughly on the same level as spinning a basketball on your fingertip in terms of usefulness.

defen5• 11 years ago

I agree that in and of itself, it's perhaps not extremely useful in the modern world. However, training up to that level will have benefits in terms of bone density and core strength. It's not clear what you would gain by learning to spin a ball like that. Improved hand-eye coordination, maybe?

_greim_• 11 years ago

Do NOT run to the nearest weight room and start doing squat weights in response to your back pain. Go see a physical therapist. They'll put together an exercise routine that's customized to you, and ease you into it. Address the core issue first. Then, work up to whatever routine you aspire to, for example weights, but it's a good idea to discuss with your therapist first.

xchip2• 11 years ago

"An acupuncturist in Palo Alto, Calif., thinks she has figured out why."

Acupuncture is know to work (even if you put the needles randomly) Please bring me a scientist :)

adamtj2• 11 years ago

What the article describes is real science. That makes her a scientist. She's also does acupuncture, which makes her a pseudo-scientist. The two aren't mutually exclusive, and here is a person who is both. That's the real story, in my opinion.

xchip2• 11 years ago

To be a scientist you need to know how to research, thing that takes a minimum of 4 years with the supervision of a senior professor. Also your results need to be reviewed by other researchers... And even with all this process in place many times we make mistakes... so imagine what can I tell you about an acupunturist.

michaelkeenan• 11 years ago

Cochrane reviews show that acupuncture works for some types of pain: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21359919

(It's not mentioned in the abstract I linked, but searching Cochrane's site shows that they look at studies comparing acupuncture to a "fake" acupuncture, which is presumably putting needles randomly.)

panglott• 11 years ago

Well, that appears to be real science about acupuncture. Acupuncture isn't a science based not on whether it works or not (there appears to be some scientific evidence that it can), but rather because it is based on handed-down traditional knowledge and personal experience rather than empirical research.

That doesn't make it bad, it just makes it culture.

kendallpark13• 11 years ago

As one that is in and out of PT fairly frequently, I can tell you how absolutely FRUSTRATED PTs and orthos get by people that have lower back pain and want some medication or special chairs or stem, as opposed to buckling down and strengthening their abdominal muscles.

Weak abs = lower back pain. For most cases. In my early years playing football, I used to get lower back pain from the contact. I was weightlifting regularly, but always skipped my ab exercises because I hated them. One year I was like, screw it, I'm going to do these. Abs got strong, back pain disappeared.

This posturing stuff engages your core and helps keep the spine supported properly. If you want faster results, get in the gym and get an abdominal routine going.

Lost Posture: Why Indigenous Cultures Don't Have Back Pain

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