Elon Musk email to Tesla employee about missing an event to witness the birth

http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-email-tesla-employee-2015-5

by mrfusion • 11 years ago

136 161 11 years ago

boomzilla• 11 years ago

That's over the line if it's true in my opinion. But again, all we have here is some anecdotal quotes that might be really out of context. It could just be just on a status update meeting on Monday 10am and the guy who's responsible for a critical component did not show up and no one knows why.

mindcrime3• 11 years ago

Musk even scolded a Tesla employee who missed an event to witness the birth of his child

If true, that diminishes my respect for Elon just a touch. I mean, OK, I get it... when you're trying to change the world, you want passion, you want commitment, etc. Fine. But here's the thing: in the end, you're just as dead either way. Change the world, you're still dead. Don't change the world: You're dead. The only thing that really counts in many ways (if such a thing can be said to even exist) is what happens "between the goalposts" so to speak.

If I were working for Elon and he said something like that to me, I'm pretty sure my answer would be "bugger off". You only get to witness the birth of a child once, ya know?

It's also important to remember that, as a founder, you'll never find people who are exactly as committed to your project and your ideals as you are. You just can't. It will always be your baby, and it will always hold significance to you that it will never hold for anyone else in the world. You may find people who are committed and passionate, but they still won't be you. To expect otherwise is folly.

fnordfnordfnord• 11 years ago

You only get to witness the birth of a child once

You know what else? Though it's rare, the spouse is needed to make important decisions in the event of some unplanned problem and the incapacitation of the mother.

DanBC3• 11 years ago

But it's a good idea if the would be parents talk about what they want to happen and write it down. Just in case.

fingerprinter4• 11 years ago

If this statement is true and in the proper context (who knows), this all but kills my respect for Musk. It basically puts him at the same level as Jobs, Ellison and others who are just egotistical, sociopathic assholes.

Look, Musk /is/ out to change the world. His employees might not be, at least to the degree and level as he is. And, if they are, they'll likely not be remembered along with Musk. There is often only one, maybe two names attached to great achievements. If I'm an employee at a company like that (and I have been, and I have killed myself with long hours making someone else rich when I was young and dumb, before I realized what it was all about), I would do my job very, very well and make sure I have the balance in life /I/ want.

You don't want me to see the birth of my child? Sorry, fuck off. It's my time, my life, my family, my kid. And we aren't talking about a tee-ball game. This is the BIRTH. We aren't talking about kindergarten parent-teacher conferences. This is the birth, where you support your wife and see your child for the first time.

And, sadly, Musk probably doesn't realize because he is so wrapped up in his own world, but having a child IS changing the world for a few folks. But, ya know, sociopaths don't care about other people, just themselves.

I'm continually saddened that we put people on pedestals who so clearly aren't deserving of it. Musk is just another example of someone who /really/ is out for theirs and want to get it any way possible. I think we all thought, or maybe hoped, he was different. I don't know that he is.

mikeash5• 11 years ago

I'm mostly just happy that we've largely figured out how to channel driven sociopaths into relatively productive pursuits like building rockets (and, yes, less productive things like finance) instead of conquering, pillaging, and salting the earth.

TeMPOraL20• 11 years ago

And, sadly, Musk probably doesn't realize because he is so wrapped up in his own world, but having a child IS changing the world for a few folks. But, ya know, sociopaths don't care about other people, just themselves.

I'm partial about this. The reply (assuming it's true, context, etc.) seemed very harsh and inconsiderate, and struck me as not his style (but I never worked for him so I don't know how he is day-to-day).

But the celebration of family I see in these comments is weird for me as well. Ok, so having a child is changing the world for a few folks. But the work done at Tesla and SpaceX will quite likely change the world for better for hundreds of millions or even billions of people. It's not the typical SV "change the world" = "build a mobile social spyware app", it's actually fixing some of the biggest problems humanity faces. Call me sociopath, but were I working for SpaceX or Tesla on some critical components, I probably wouldn't consider my own family more important than this work. Same if I was working for cutting-edge cure-cancer stuff. There are more important things than myself and my personal life.

mindcrime3• 11 years ago

The thing is, there's nothing wrong with being obsessive, or even sociopathic to a point. Elon wants what he wants and he has a right to go after it with all his might. And to be honest, I expect he really is interested in making the world a better place in the general sense. Nothing about him gives off a "Bondian Supervillian" vibe or anything. I just think it's a mistake for him to assume that anyone else will necessarily share his level of dedication and passion, now matter how important his initiative is to him personally.

And when you start bossing people around, who would otherwise be your supporters, and saying stuff like this, I expect the principle consequence isn't "more commitment" form those people (not over the long-term anyway) but an increased desire on their part to tell you to fuck off, while they go find another outlet to try and change the world.

iamcurious3• 11 years ago

that diminishes my respect for Elon just a touch

You are way more generous than I am.

mindcrime3• 11 years ago

I mean, it's one incident, at one point in time, with very little context. I'm hardly in a position to judge somebody based on that. Who here hasn't said something insensitive or less than compassionate to somebody else, at some point in time? Does that mean we're all bad people? Nah...

Even though I'm totally not religious, I try to adhere somewhat to that old saw about "let ye who be free from sin throw the first stone" or whatever.

pmcpinto• 11 years ago

If this is true it's a little bit sad. If a person isn't present in the most important moments of a family is "changing the world" of the family for worse and not for better.

the84724• 11 years ago

is "changing the world" of the family for worse and not for better

Hypothetical counterexample: What if he were busy curing cancer and thus making sure that the future world of that very family would be a nicer place, one where the children would never have to experience that disease?

DanBC3• 11 years ago

He's probably better motivated and does better work if you give him time away from work to be with his spouse and child.

fingerprinter4• 11 years ago

That is a classic false dichotomy. You never, ever need to choose between those two things. You can have some semblance of both in nearly ALL cases.

chillingeffect• 11 years ago

Then someone else could take over his position for a few hours while he attended the birth of his child.

With a market cap of 26 billion dollars, Tesla can afford to hire enough employees.

AstroChimpHam4• 11 years ago

All the negative press and comments about this miss the point. The guy has very specific, very ambitious goals that he has a track record of achieving. He prioritizes those literally above everything and expects the same from key employees.

Working at Tesla, which has already done a ton to change the entire car industry is a huge privilege, and no one's making you do it. If you can get a job there, you can get a job elsewhere, but if you do want to have your job there and help reshape the world behind someone with a track record like Elon Musk's, yeah, you're going to have to play by his rules. If other stuff is more important to you, go work at like 95% of other companies.

WDCDev• 11 years ago

That's ridiculous. No one's commitment to any organization or cause should be questioned if they choose to see their child born vs. coming into work.

elmerland• 11 years ago

Completely agree! Nobody should be shamed because he/she prioritizes things differently. As long as people accomplish the job agreed upon, it should not matter that some people are not OK with never seeing their family.

brianpgordon• 11 years ago

I think it's reasonable to expect an astronaut to report to work on the day of a launch regardless of personal circumstances. Also a soldier can't go AWOL in the middle of a mission to see his family. Same with a surgeon in the middle of a surgery. Those are pretty much the only cases I can think of.

I get the sense that, amusingly, Elon Musk sees himself and his company as that important.

AceJohnny22• 11 years ago

I am reminded of this famous Stallman incident, where he basically scorns at another developer for having a baby:

http://edward.oconnor.cx/2005/04/rms

fatman• 11 years ago

Wow. It's no surprise that rms lacks empathy or social grace, but I'm kind of shocked one man's availability could single-handedly delay a release of a project like emacs. What if the poor chap had got hit by a bus?

kevinskii• 11 years ago

That email chain contains one of my favorite quotes:

"It doesn’t take special talents to reproduce—even plants can do it. On the other hand, contributing to a program like Emacs takes real skill. That is really something to be proud of." --RMS

(As a parent without any special talents, I am evidence supporting his claim.)

TeMPOraL20• 11 years ago

Which reminds me of this RMS classic:

http://www.art.net/Studios/Hackers/Hopkins/Don/text/rms-vs-d...

I can't say I disagree with RMS. Having a child is really nothing special. Every other person on the planet does that. And while I respect that for many parents, having their own kid is the best moment of their lives, I think RMS is right to point out that except said parents, no one else cares. It's a huge problem on social media now; one of the most annoying things is people continuously spamming everyone with photos of their newborns.

notjustanymike• 11 years ago

If you consider the birth of a child "other stuff" less important that your job your priorities as a parent are already seriously fucked.

MrZongle23• 11 years ago

"All the negative press and comments about this miss the point."

What, that working at Tesla is more important than being at the birth of your child, to both see them come into the world and support the mother during a physically and emotionally trying event?

Because that is the alleged point. And the criticism is spot-on.

AstroChimpHam4• 11 years ago

No, it's not. It's not that working at Tesla is more important for everyone. It's that if you do work at Tesla in that employee's role (which was key because he's getting direct emails from Elon Musk), then that's a sacrifice you need to make. For me, I'd much rather witness my child's birth, which is why I wouldn't take a job where I might have to miss that. The solution is not to take the job, not to criticize a guy literally changing the world for his process.

fsloth2• 11 years ago

Playing by a specific, abnormal ruleset or not playing at all sounds more like a cult and a recipe for fatal groupthink than a healthy company culture. But hey, I'm not saying cults can't achieve great things. It's just that they are not usually that healthy for most participants.

TeMPOraL20• 11 years ago

True, but this "cult" says up-front that it cares about the end-goal and not profits, and is inviting people who are willing to think alike. I've noticed however that as both SpaceX and Tesla gain media exposure, there's an influx of people who want to join only to get a good line on their resume. These companies are definitely not healthy for such participants.

butterfi• 11 years ago

Working at Tesla is not a huge privilege. It's a job, maybe even a great one, but it doesn't make you a better person, it doesn't even guarantee that you'll be employable after working there. Having worked for a couple of very popular places, I realized pretty quickly its a job. You know what these places have in common? You're an employee, which means they can and will cut you loose when it suits them. "Reshaping the World" seems to be a popular refrain that gets overused by tech companies, and while Tesla may be more accurate then most, it's still hubris. Spend time with your real family.

AstroChimpHam4• 11 years ago

So, don't work there. We're talking about really smart people that can get jobs wherever else if they don't like the culture at Tesla. All the replies on my comment share the same issue that for them seeing the birth of their child is more important than being a part of Tesla. That's fine. Don't work at Tesla. That's why I wouldn't work there either. I wouldn't work in the army either, which has the same setbacks when you're on a deployment. Elon Musk consistently delivers on actually changing the world, so yeah, he's allowed to have rules to work with him.

Also, to the people that downvoted: it's really disheartening to see you'd rather downvote out of existence than have a dialogue with a contrasting opinion. Enjoy your echo chamber.

gclaramunt2• 11 years ago

Unless the employee has the same reward ($$$) you can't expect the same level of commitment. Witnessing the beginning of a life altering project is not even comparable to help somebody else build a car. What would you think of a founder that misses the launch of his product?

hauget2• 11 years ago

1) If true, NONE of us here know under what circumstances this happened. Maybe Elon hadn't slept for days at the time and later apologized, or maybe the employee was really at fault. NONE OF US KNOW.

2) Some of the quotes from the book make me think the author merely went through other people's interviews/articles and compiled them into a sensationalist book.

enraged_camel• 11 years ago

While this is true, it's also worth nothing that HN places Elon Musk on a pedestal and becomes incredibly defensive when someone criticizes him.

The reality is probably somewhere in the middle: Elon Musk is no doubt an amazing man, but he is not without flaws. I think we do need people pointing out those flaws to balance out all the hype and hero-worship.

hauget2• 11 years ago

Agreed. I just get angry when people think it's a good idea to chime in on "gossip". This isn't Gawker.

MrZongle23• 11 years ago

If true -- that is, Musk was criticizing an employee specifically for being at their child's birth instead of work -- then he's an ass, and he's wrong. I would expect somebody with 5 children would know better.

Every man or woman put on a pedestal will inevitably disappoint their admirers in some regard. Steve Jobs, despite his skill at pushing Apple into a highly profitable and desirable direction, appears from most accounts to be a horrid, miserable human being. Same with every politician and celebrity.

I doubt this will change much; Musk's goals and reputation hinge on technical delivery, not interpersonal skills.

Cshelton2• 11 years ago

Before anybody jumps to conclusions about Musk, we need to first know the source is accurate and the email is real, and also we need to know the context of the email.

It could be very well that the employee failed to communicate the fact his wife may go into labor prior to the event, and with no heads up of any kind, he gave the excuse after missing the event. In which case, I completely agree with Musk, if any employee is expecting to be out soon, they need to make it known. And let's face it...you have quite a few months notice on when the baby is due.

MrZongle23• 11 years ago

"It could be very well that the employee failed to communicate the fact his wife may go into labor prior to the event, and with no heads up of any kind, he gave the excuse after missing the event."

That's an excellent point that I had not considered. When my wife & I had a due date for both our children, I put everybody at work on notice about my possible lack of availability. That's just how I work. But it's entirely possible that the individual in question either flaked out completely or just spaced out about the logistics of the matter.

There are definitely some puzzle pieces missing from the story.

fingerprinter4• 11 years ago

Yes, you have a rough idea when babies are due. My middle child was born 5 weeks early, however. My last was born 3 weeks early. I've had employees send me a note a day after saying 'sorry, baby came early. more later'.

If you have any reaction other than "oh, ok, hope everyone is healthy", you are probably a terrible human being.

greglindahl2• 11 years ago

Huh, my coworkers who have had pregnant spouses generally gave us a heads-up around week 24... unlikely to be that premature, but it helps everyone plan for that possibility.

Cshelton2• 11 years ago

Regardless of the actual timing, if you have informed your employer that you are having a baby and it could be anywhere in the time frame, I think that should be accepted. However, if one day you are just gone and then came back and say 'we just had a baby', and that's the first time your employer has heard about it, then yeah, I can see that as a real problem.

In this kind of situation, it is much better to keep people you are obligated to as informed as possible, not keep it a secret. No matter if the baby comes a month early, at least they know you may be out and not wondering why you would miss without any indication you were expecting a child.

Jun8• 11 years ago

"And let's face it...you have quite a few months notice on when the baby is due."

This simply is not true! You should understand that the "due date" is a distribution in normal childbirth. Even for cesarian sections, which are scheduled, things can go awry.

In fact the second case is precisely what happened to my wife. She still had about 15 days to her scheduled cesarian when she visited the hospital for a routine checkup, during which they found that her blood pressure was too high and presented a mortal danger to the baby. They took her to delivery room immediately. She just had enough time to call me at work, I rushed like a madmen, but due to my long commute I still wan't there when our son was delivered.

greglindahl2• 11 years ago

And you hadn't given work a heads-up that she was getting close?

Edit: Just pointing out that there is an extremely easy way to notify your work, given the uncertain schedule of all childbirth.

stevecalifornia• 11 years ago

My first day at SpaceX I ran into a friend. I asked him how he was doing and he said he just had a kid. "How old is she now?" "Oh no, like, my wife just gave birth an hour ago."

The guy was working through the birth of his first born. The story continued for months afterwards and it's not a good one.

That and many other stories are what led me to quit. I took the summer off and didn't work. I hung out with my dog and got my pilot's license. A few months later my dog unexpectedly passed away one night. I was so, so happy I spent the last months of his life with him instead of at SpaceX.

I get working on big goals, I get working hard. I don't get throwing away everything else. It's not just your life it's the people who need a father and a friend.

at-fates-hands• 11 years ago

> I get working on big goals, I get working hard. I don't get throwing away everything else. It's not just your life it's the people who need a father and a friend.

Agreed.

The quote which finally got me to realize my family was more important than my job:

"When you’re gone would you rather have your gravestone say, ‘He never missed a meeting.’ Or one that said, ‘He was a great father'."

TeMPOraL20• 11 years ago

I agree that family is important and it's especially important to be there for other people, but regarding your quote, to the two gravestone inscriptions above I'd much prefer: "He helped mankind make its first steps on Mars.", or "He helped ensure the world is a good place to live for generations to come.".

genericuser3• 11 years ago

I think the point is, that with this job, Musk want's people whose dream and life goal is the success of what the company is trying to do, and not to have a family or any such commonly accepted life goal.

I believe improving space travel is one of a handful of dreams/goals that there are potentially enough talented people out there, that one could find the people who want this to be their life as opposed to that of a more traditional role.

I know this may illicit the typical 'burn out is real' responses, and I know it is but I honestly don't think it occurs if you are a person with a singular passion and you are lucky enough to be pursuing it for your 'work'.

astolarz• 11 years ago

An acquaintance who works for one of Boeing's manufacturing plants told me of an encounter he witnessed between a manager and another employee regarding how hard they were being worked. The manager told the employee, in all sincerity, that "if Boeing wanted them to have a family they would have been issued one."

codyb2• 11 years ago

Yea, I really enjoy programming but I have yet to be able to come to terms with this idea that if I'd like to be a professional software engineer I have to want to be the world's saving grace rockstar ninja programmer.

Isn't it enough to want to wake up refreshed every day, put in a good solid 6-7 hours of professional quality engineering work, and then have the time and energy to want to perform all of the other duties and joys to be found in life?

pc863• 11 years ago

Yeah if you can find a job that is okay with you only working 30 hours a week while paying you for 40, hang on to it and never let go.

clavalle5• 11 years ago

That is enough. Anyone that tries to convince you otherwise wants to leverage your Life for their benefit.

AstroChimpHam4• 11 years ago

That's enough for lots of jobs. It's just not enough for all jobs, and the ones it's not enough for tend to get more publicity (and, with good reason, higher salaries).

mikeash5• 11 years ago

I interviewed at a big company (unrelated to Mr. Musk) about a decade ago. The team was in a little satellite office away from headquarters, and we headed back to headquarters for lunch. As we walked into the cafe, the guy from the team who took me pointed to an office building next door and said something to the effect of, "Our office used to be right in there. It was so convenient! I could be at work, come down and grab dinner, then go right back up to work."

And that was the moment I knew I would decline their offer.

Some people really seem to go for that stuff, though.

6t6t6• 11 years ago

Work hard, but work 20% less hours, get paid 20% less and get a life in exchange. For me, this is a really good deal.

StavrosK• 11 years ago

I don't care about Musk either way, so I doubt this is too biased in his favor, but I don't think many people would knowingly say something like the phrase in the article to someone who went to his child's birth. I consider it more likely that Musk didn't know that the person was missing because of the birth, or something similar, than that someone would say "yeah this company event is more important than your child being born".

troisx• 11 years ago

I've heard him talking before, and this doesn't surprise me at all. He has a definite mean streak, and he's almost gleeful about being nasty.

pbreit3• 11 years ago

I tend to agree. Without much information on the other side, it's hard to figure out exactly what the context was. I doubt the employee was expected to miss the actual birth but was expected to return to the event/office, perhaps sooner than other employers might expect.

thieving_magpie• 11 years ago

If true that would be hard to not shape my perspective of the man. I can't respect the Daniel Plainviews of the world.

Red_Tarsius• 11 years ago

There's not enough information for a fair opinion on the matter, so I flagged the article. It's not the first time that ambiguous sources try to smear Elon Musk. The ex-wife rant was enough.

There are so many variables we are not aware of. Dismissing Elon as a "the bad guy" is giving too much credit to an unknown source.

mikeash5• 11 years ago

I'm a fan of Musk and his companies. I own one of his cars (as far as they can be called "his," obviously there are tons of people involved) and it's even better than all the "best car in the world!" people say. I follow every SpaceX launch and am eager to see them pull off their stage recovery attempts soon.

That said, this doesn't surprise me at all. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy I'd want to work for. My admiration is about vision and execution, not personal relationships. He may well be a dick, and it would be no shock if he is.

Maybe this is what it takes to do big things. Maybe it's entirely unnecessary. Either way it reminds me a bit of Steve Jobs, who was undeniably a massive jerk, but who got things done.

I forget exactly what my point was here. I guess it's just that this is a bit of a "water is wet" story mixed in with celebrity gossip. It's highly important for the people involved but not terribly relevant for the rest of us.

senorito2• 11 years ago

Jobs made fancy white electronic devices - he just sold a lot of them - to justify rude behavior with something that trivial simply doesn't seem right to me.

mikeash5• 11 years ago

I'm not saying that anything justifies rude behavior. I'm just commenting on a case where rude behavior and success occurred together.

lasky• 11 years ago

...just when you start think there might be someone in Silicon Valley who is worth working for and learning from... it turns out he is also a flawed human being who can and will wreak havoc on this employees' personal lives.

If this is true, and not taken out of context, Musk has some serious soul searching to do.

cwyers3• 11 years ago

To everybody who is talking about this being out of context: in what context is the alleged behavior okay?

sjm-lbm• 11 years ago

The article makes it sound like "That is no excuse" is referring to taking time off work to see your child born - in other words, there is nothing that could excuse someone taking off time for that. It's possible that he's merely saying that taking time off for something so important is no excuse for failing to request the time off with HR, failing to ensure that a different team member could be present in a meeting, or something along those lines - in other words, not that taking time off for important family reasons isn't OK, but rather that things still need to be handled properly even for things as important as taking time off to be with your partner while she was giving birth. Something like that might not be the kindest thing to do, but I can at least understand the logic behind it.

cwyers3• 11 years ago

The alleged e-mail seems to mitigate against that reading:

That is no excuse. I am extremely disappointed. You need to figure out where your priorities are. We're changing the world and changing history, and you either commit or you don’t.

"Figure out where your priorities are," not follow procedure. "Commit or you don't." There is not a terrible lot of ambiguity here.

pbreit3• 11 years ago

It's unlikely the employee was expected to miss the actual birth, despite what the book apparently tries to imply (i.e., context is missing).

cwyers3• 11 years ago

Assuming the Business Insider summary is correct (which is an assumption, yes), the book isn't trying to imply it, the book is outright claiming it. It is possible that either the book or the Business Insider article is mistaken -- gets facts wrong, is misleading, whatever. That's not "out of context" so much as it is "being wrong," though.

run4yourlives2• 11 years ago

A good number of "world changers" prioritize their work over everything else in their lives, including themselves and the people around them. They expect their team to do nothing less, so if he did say that, I'm not exactly surprised.

This wouldn't work for me, and I'd imagine it wouldn't work for a lot of people who prioritize their families over whatever project they may be working on. I still like Musk and the things he does, but I have no desire to work for him if that means working 24/7 like he does.

wordbank3• 11 years ago

History repeats itself and people who are trying to "change the world" don't care about any casualties on their way.

Ironically, world could change so much by everyone being kind and grateful to others. No invention or conquest can bring this kind of change.

TeMPOraL20• 11 years ago

You're saying it as if Elon was Genghis Khan. He's not conquering anything, he's just trying to solve two of the big problems of humanity, and he invites volunteers to help him. You don't believe in his mission? Don't join, and don't take places because you want to "build a resume" (it seems to be a recent trend now). It's not like he doesn't keep saying that Tesla and SpaceX are not ordinary jobs.

dreamdu5t• 11 years ago

"Changing the world." The world is bigger than the technology in it. The world consists of relationships too. I didn't learn this early enough. While you're out building rocketships don't forget to build relationships.

What a lonely world it would be if we had everything but nobody to care about us.

TeMPOraL20• 11 years ago

Not everyone has to build rocketships. Let the few who want to take one for the team, and the rest can enjoy the fruits of their sacrifice.

MrGando• 11 years ago

-it true-

I don't know how people here are deffending this kind of attitude. If you decide to bring another person to this planet, you have a huge responsibility. You can balance things out and work a lot and have a family. But if you really want to work 23 hours a day without paying proper attention to your family, for the sake of your children and spouse, just don't form a family. The damage you'll do, is irreversible.

You can't have it all in life... And one has to make hard choices.

Zelphyr2• 11 years ago

That "23 hours a day" part is what strikes me as suspect. Unless they're being hyperbolic--and it doesn't seem like that's what they're trying to do--then its not sustainable for anyone.

kelukelugames• 11 years ago

John Chambers seems nice, and Cisco did okay.

paulrpotts• 11 years ago

The wording the article uses is offensive. A dad isn't in the delivery room just to "witness" the birth, or at least he shouldn't be. He's there to support the mother, advocate for her, help her make decisions regarding how the birth goes, support the newborn baby, advocate for him or her, and (maybe) make very difficult medical decisions if either is compromised.

Most of my children were born without a lot of complications, and I didn't have to do much decision-making or advocacy, just support my wife, talk to her, hold her hand, rub her back, cut the cord, take pictures, hold the baby, and all that. My baby girl responded immediately to my voice in a way that she didn't respond to other voices, because she had heard my voice a lot while she was in the womb.

My most recent turned into a difficult birth, with both mother and baby very sick with a rare infection, and an emergency C-section, and then with my newborn son in the hospital for ten days of IV antibiotics. Because my wife was in recovery I had to immediately provide "kangaroo care" -- that is, skin to skin contact with my newborn son, to help him adapt. Also, to hold him as much as possible in the neonatal ICU, while he had IVs stuck in and medication pumped in. My wife was not very mobile at that point.

Once she was a little more mobile the friends we had tapped to watch our other kids were all tapped out and so I had to be a stay-at-home dad for them.

Parenting responsibilities and spouse responsibilities are not like work responsibilities. They just aren't. Anyone who says or behaves otherwise is a sociopath.

sktrdie• 11 years ago

A dad isn't in the delivery room just to "witness" the birth, or at least he shouldn't be.

But I mean, surely the "witnessing" is important on its own, no?

Zelphyr2• 11 years ago

We went through the Lamaze classes where they tell you all the things you'll be doing to help your wife birth your first child. Then we went to the delivery room where the nurses pointed next to my wife's head and said, "you stand here" while they did all the things I thought I was supposed to do.

And, honestly, I didn't mind. It was nice letting the professionals do their jobs and I could sort of be a cheerleader (bad term but its the best I can come up with at the moment) and witness the birth of my child.

tna3• 11 years ago

From Justine Musk, Elon Musk's wife during those times:

"Extreme success results from an extreme personality and comes at the cost of many other things. Extreme success is different from what I suppose you could just consider 'success', so know that you don't have to be Richard or Elon to be affluent and accomplished and maintain a great lifestyle. Your odds of happiness are better that way. But if you're extreme, you must be what you are, which means that happiness is more or less beside the point."

...continued at: http://www.quora.com/How-can-I-be-as-great-as-Bill-Gates-Ste... (answered by Justine herself)

Omniusaspirer• 11 years ago

This is a thought I've been having myself a lot lately. None of the successes I have actually leave me happier at the end of the day, they just kind of exist. Trying to balance success with happiness is a curious dilemma since to so many people the two are intertwined.

Very interesting read though- I appreciate you linking it here.

tna3• 11 years ago

Following Justine's thesis: Do you mean that you feel you're an extreme person, like Musk, you must be what you are, which means that happiness is more or less beside the point? Or the opposite: that you're a non-extreme person, and feel that you're focusing too much on success and not enough on happiness?

fsloth2• 11 years ago

Whatever the truth of the matter I think this highlights a specific thing people should pay attention to when they choose their employer: different companies have different values and when considering joining, it's good to make sure those values are aligned with ones personal values. Having a strongly disaligned value base can lead to burnout and depression.

Tesla values seem to be in the extreme end of the spectrum. I am not saying that this is good or bad, just that they are not necessarily aligned with the values of all.

But all in all, having a car is pretty pointless if there is no-one to drive them. Hiring clever people and then hindering their pro-creation is not really helping the society as talented parents usually get talented children, and for children the most important time of their development is their first years. Screw those, and the person is considerably worse off. A healthy child might get well of and by a fancy Tesla in 30 years. I'm not saying slave laboring the father would make the infant a mental patient and a destitute, but discouraging healthy parenthood is hedging the bets towards worse outcomes.

The same argumentation can be said of space travel. What's the point of traveling to Mars unless the needs of future of the species are taken care of as well. This includes resources for nurture and care.

comrade1• 11 years ago

Changing the world through government grants, subsidies, and prison labor...

7Figures2Commas• 11 years ago

For possible context, Elon Musk's first wife wrote about their relationship during the midst of her divorce[1].

[1] http://www.marieclaire.com/sex-love/advice/a5380/millionaire...

steego• 11 years ago

People will justify this sort of abuse because they see it as a necessary cost for a bright future.

Do you really think we'll create a bright future by continually setting the precedent it's ok to abuse people to get there? Won't tomorrow's leaders simply use their own visions of the future to justify their own abuse?

padrian2s• 11 years ago

Father of two kids I will not trade the moment of my kids birth for anything in the world. As for Mr Elon Musk, go home... you are another psycho CEO from america crime corporate

dennisbest• 11 years ago

I'm changing the world. I'm changing history. I'm fully committed. His name is Theodore and he turns three in July.

thoman23• 11 years ago

Well, isn't Elon Musk one of those guys who thinks he's going to live forever? He probably figures he can spend time with family 1000 years from now after things settle down a bit.

TeMPOraL20• 11 years ago

He said he plans to die on Mars ("just not on landing"). I guess he plans to do it being happy that the civilization is no longer facing imminent collapse because of energy and climate problems, and that humans are multiplanetary species.

Delmania• 11 years ago

While it's not unbiased, his ex-wife's article on their marriage and this comment makes me think Musk has NPD. I was going to say he's a psychopath, but he has exhibited no signs of antisocial disorder. Rather, he's exhibited a lack of empathy and illusions of grandeur.

Seriously, it's more than possible to achieve great things while having an enriching family life. It's about involving your family in your dreams while working on having healthy relationships. It's possible, it takes a lot of work, but most worthy things are.

dageshi• 11 years ago

Is it me or is this post disappearing off the front page rather quickly?

TeMPOraL20• 11 years ago

It's probably being flagged, because with its lack of context, it's more of a smearing job than an actual revelation.

senorito2• 11 years ago

That is no excuse. I am extremely disappointed. You need to figure out where your priorities are. We're changing the world and changing history, and you either commit or you don’t.

What an idiot - he became rich - so what ...

anonbanker• 11 years ago

There's a constructive dismissal lawsuit if I've ever seen one.

AYBABTME• 11 years ago

Not excusing the comment, it's pretty harsh.

It seems that everyone praises the prioritization of family over work. The quote that's brought up goes like:

"When you’re gone would you rather have your gravestone say, ‘He never missed a meeting.’ Or one that said, ‘He was a great father'."

This supposes that the acceptable thing to do for any human being is to desire having a family and caring for your own kind. It also supposes that work can only be a succession a meaningless events.

I see another take on this. I see that some projects can be life projects. Some of those life projects can happen to be 'work'. Desiring the completion of a life project, as your mean to live your humanity, is as valid in my opinion, as the desire to fulfill your humanity through the experience of family.

When you look at someone like Elon Musk and criticize him for not caring about family, you criticize him for having a different set of priorities than yours. The argument is an appeal to emotion and some assumed higher truth. It's not valid. There's more than one way to focus your life. You don't have to focus on having and raising children. You might want to do that. Or not.

---

That said, it's pretty rude to expect other people to focus their life on a project instead of their families. However, I can understand that a leader desire that their company be formed of people likely focused and minded.

ezl• 11 years ago

Imagine a world where that level of insensitivity was inextricably coupled with the sort of accomplishments he produces for humanity.

I'm not saying they are, but if asshole-ness and makes-awesomethings-ness were linked, would it be preferable for him to be "a nice guy" and not "a guy who drove plausible solutions to global online payments, solar power, electric cars, and space travel"?

Or would we rather have another nice guy that didn't do those things?

It's hard to imagine that anyone who continues to work for Elon Musk's companies right now doesn't have alternatives. So they're CHOOSING that, for whatever reason. Maybe they tolerate his behavior to be a part of what he does. But nobody is really trapped there without options.

Maybe (probably) it's possible to be nice and be awesome. But it's not important to me that Elon Musk is nice. If I have to pick between his creation and his compassion, I pick creation.

Elon Musk email to Tesla employee about missing an event to witness the birth

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