Inside the world of longsword fighting

http://www.nytimes.com/video/sports/100000003040466/inside-the-world-of-longsword-fighting.html

by benbreen • 11 years ago

267 167 11 years ago

Mithaldu3• 11 years ago

"it's a serious martial art"

It may be a serious, and quite cool, sport. But i don't think something that has zero real world practicability or application falls under the banner of a "martial art".

medecau• 11 years ago

It's sitting on the top of the front page with 28 points. I've got no idea why I keep coming to HN looking for hacker news.

boothead• 11 years ago

Well this is closer to the original meaning of "hacking" I guess :-)

davidw• 11 years ago

As someone who is more than happy to complain about (and flag!) political articles, this seems to qualify as something people just find 'interesting'. It's probably not flame bait, and isn't likely to retread tired old political or economic arguments. I don't happen to find this one particularly interesting, but am happy to just ignore it and vote other stuff up.

SeanDav• 11 years ago

I've got no idea why I keep coming to HN looking for hacker news.

By "Hacker News" I presume you mean news that hackers find interesting? In which case, that is your answer.

DanBC• 11 years ago

Just for interest: why isn't this hacker news? What would you prefer to see on HN?

ht_th• 11 years ago

Yes, I come here to read up on programming, ICT, and the information society, but one of the things I like most about aggregation-type sites like hackernews, reddit, and slashdot is to be surprised about intriguing thing I had no idea existed.

If I imagine the internet usage of the visitors of hackernews as a enormous Venn diagram with each visitor his own circle, these type of articles allow me to look beyond the border of my own circle into the circles overlapping mine most, allowing me to expand my circle.

archon• 11 years ago

A martial art does not have to be directly usable in the real world to still be a martial art. Martial arts are about training the mind and body. Some of them happen to have practical defensive uses, others don't.

lojack• 11 years ago

The same could be said about Sumo, or any number of other varieties of martial arts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_martial_arts

ta_U7m4_x2• 11 years ago

i don't think something that has zero real world practicability or application falls under the banner of a "martial art".

Tell that to aikido...

cm20122• 11 years ago

Aikido has a handful of moves that are really useful in real life - but its true that most of them are too artsy to work in practice, especially on an opponent bigger than you.

renox• 11 years ago

Thanks for the laugh. I recall thinking when watching an aikido lesson: okay the teacher (who had 20+ years of aikido and of other martial arts) could use his aikido knowledge in a fight, the other(1) definitely not! And it could even be dangerous if they believed that they could use their aikido knowledge to fight, not that this is unique to aikido..

1: even those of who were black belt

Silhouette2• 11 years ago

Aikido has plenty of technique that has practical applicability in a real fight. The basic principles about balance and momentum are widely applicable, and the principle of using joint locks against a stronger or better armoured opponent is tactically sound as well.

The downsides of aikido as a practical style are the same as many of the more intricate/interesting martial arts: they are far from including a complete set of skills for real fights, and it takes much longer to be proficient enough with their intricate techniques to actually use them than it does to get competent in train-by-actually-doing-it styles like boxing, judo, wrestling, etc.

Aikido does have the added disadvantage that being entirely defensive in nature, you only learn to defend against the level of attack you train with. Unsurprisingly, people who train in an entirely defensive style don't attack well without outside influence, which can lead to unfortunate delusions like being able to "catch a punch" that would last approximately one session training with anyone skilled in any decent striking style.

jonnathanson2• 11 years ago

A lot of martial arts are wildly impractical in 99.99% of everyday circumstances. The list includes almost all martial arts involving bladed weaponry, most martial arts involving canes or blunt instruments, and most of the classical, unarmed arts that a layperson would recognize.

This is one of the major reasons why "practical" martial arts, such as Krav Maga, have become so popular in recent years. It doesn't mean the less practical arts are not "arts," or are somehow not "martial." The history of martial arts is a history of the militaries, weapons, circumstances, etc., that have given rise to the need for formalized combat styles throughout the world. In feudal Japan, for instance, it was probably a very helpful and practical thing to be well-versed in the art of the samurai sword. In present-day Japan, a bit less so.

Some martial arts are practical in 2015. Some martial arts were practical in 1915, and some were practical in 1515. Circumstances change. The stuff people wear, or carry around with them everyday, or bring into a combat zone, change pretty quickly and dramatically. And of course, some martial arts have never really been practical at all, being used mainly for ceremony, discipline, and lifestyle.

bluedino2• 11 years ago

Ahhh, Krava Maga. You can't even practice it at anywhere near 100% like you an other martial arts. If you can't practice something to the fullest extent you can never perform it that way when the situation is required.

ensignavenger2• 11 years ago

"wildly impractical in 99.99% of everyday circumstances"

I would hope so! If an average, everyday person needed to deploy martial in more than 1 out of every 10,000 of their normal, everyday circumstances, it would be a very sad state for humanity :)

MrGando2• 11 years ago

This comment is so ignorant it makes me sad. What about Sumo and Kendo? (and many others). A quick Wikipedia quote:

"Martial arts are codified systems and traditions of combat practices, which are practiced for a variety of reasons: self-defense, competition, physical health and fitness, entertainment, as well as mental, physical, and spiritual development."

I guess it's hard for you to understand the value of physical health, entertainment, mental, physical and spiritual development. This is something that people in these boards should value a lot more, and that can have a huge impact in your life.

Sorry for the long reply, but your comment made me feel sad for you.

Mithaldu3• 11 years ago

I appreciated most comments that replied to my post. I made it clear that "i thought" that way, because i wasn't sure if my thoughts represented facts or not. Most of the other comments take the time to provide helpful information and educate me, which is cool and what i hoped for.

Only you take the time to belittle me based off 2 sentences.

In the same vein as you presume to proscribe to the rest of the board that they need to lead better lives, i ask you to please try and lead a more compassionate life. :)

dagw2• 11 years ago

Unlike many martial arts practices today, there is a very real chance that most of the techniques in HEMA have been used extensively by real soldiers in real life and death combat. By any reasonable definition that should place it as far under the banner of martial arts as you can get.

gatesphere2• 11 years ago

The longsword portion of the martial art may be impractical, but it's not studied in isolation. A good swordsman needs to have a damn good grasp on footwork, grappling, and wrestling. And disarms. All of those come in handy if you're being attacked and you're unarmed. I know a few (other) HEMA practicioners whose training has saved their lives...

enjo• 11 years ago

Cool! I was watching "Big Giant Swords" on the Discovery channel (a fantastic show) and they touched on competitive sword fighting last week. After seeing this, the whole thing makes a lot more sense.

jkot• 11 years ago

Sword fighting and middle age reenactment is quite big in Germany and Central Europe.

probably_wrong• 11 years ago

Interesting. Do you have any idea about where should I start looking? I'm in Germany now, and this looks fairly interesting.

elbows3• 11 years ago

The HEMA Alliance has a club finder which lists groups all over the US and Europe: http://hemaalliance.com/?page_id=748

jcburns• 11 years ago

...and it's a video. I look to the NYT for words on a page...I wish they wouldn't waste resources on stuff like this just for the "oh, it's cool" factor.

SlipperySlope• 11 years ago

NYT is a brand that seeks an audience.

samspot• 11 years ago

Only 26 words down is this link: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/16/sports/for-longsword-a-com...

rickdale• 11 years ago

Semi-Related to this is Lars Andersen taking archery to the next level by using forgotten skills he learned by looking at old art and various texts. Worth a watch!

https://youtube.com/watch?v=BEG-ly9tQGk

agumonkey• 11 years ago

I wish he'd share his knowledge with someone of better physical shape, such as :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8b1zWOgOKA https://www.youtube.com/user/FrenchFreerunFamily/videos

pluma8• 11 years ago

Interesting to see HEMA become increasingly popular.

I've done European medieval combat re-enactment for a few years, so I'd like to expand on that one fighter's comment on the "thee" and "thou" thing.

Generally, in the re-enactment community, there are three different focusses: one is authenticity, trying to replicate historical costumes, equipment and trades; another is entertainment of an audience that is rarely familiar with the subject matter; the third is combat, both as a martial art and as a form of group sports.

The theatricals that seem to be popular at American "ren faires" and the medieval markets in various parts of Europe are strictly an expression of that second focus. Most re-enactors I've met are either into the first or third one (or a mix thereof).

I see HEMA as a logical evolution of that third focus, though I personally find its emphasis on duelling and professional competitions (with all the restrictions that brings) less intriguing.

I guess my point is that you can have medieval combat without the "thee" and "thou" parts outside of HEMA as well. It's very different from HEMA and certainly attracts a different kind of people, but it's still an alternative even if you couldn't care less about the theatrics.

swimfar• 11 years ago

HEMA=Historical European Martial Arts

pluma8• 11 years ago

Sorry, I though the term also came up in the video but I may have remembered that wrong.

flexie• 11 years ago

Looks like great fun!

I doubt it has close resemblance with medieval long sword fighting, though :-)

It must have been a lot slower fighting in leather, chainmail or plate armor than in this ultra light modern equipment.

And, I assume a medieval fighter would take far smaller chances than these modern hobbyists knowing a counter blow could be (almost surely would be) fatal.

Also, these guys fight one on one. But in a war you would have to guard yourself from blows and cuts not just from one enemy but from a crowd of enemy soldiers, left and right.

The guy you were fighting might be using a sword or he might have another weapon. Maybe he was using a shield and you didn't. And if he had a sword, he might not have read the memo that it should be max 4 feet long.

And fighting on some uneven, damp meadow he might be fighting uphill or downhill, and just keeping ones balance when striking or blocking would be hard compared to fighting indoor on a floor.

gexla• 11 years ago

I doubt it has close resemblance with medieval long sword fighting, though :-)

Probably closer to training than fighting. It may also be close to whatever sport they made of it back in the day.

I'm comparing modern day martial arts. Pretty much all training and sport.

arnsholt• 11 years ago

I think it's very similar to kendo, the Japanese equivalent of fencing (sort of). Since kendo dates back to the 1800s or so, the sword is a bamboo stick, but like in HEMA points are awarded based on a couple of criteria: the strike has to be to one of the designated target zones, the strike has to be an intentional attack (that is, flailing wildly won't score you a point), and something called zanshin which is basically the same as what they call control in the video; does the attacker control the situation after a successful strike?

But just like here, it's more a sport than faithful recreation of sword fighting since a) you're not gonna die if an attack fails and b) this is not battlefield conditions.

gambiting• 11 years ago

This video shows how people fought in full body plate armour using some 15-th century techniques, it's really surprising how flexible it is, you can even jump and do body rolls in it. It's definitely not as stiff as I always thought it was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hlIUrd7d1Q&feature=youtu.be

maurits• 11 years ago

This is a demonstration of combat in plate armour from the 15-th century. It also implicitly shows why a hammer is so effective. [1]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hlIUrd7d1Q

dagw2• 11 years ago

It must have been a lot slower fighting in leather, chainmail or plate armor than in this ultra light modern equipment.

Take a look at people fighting and doing various exercises in full plate armor on youtube. They're surprisingly fast and mobile.

Also there are HEMA groups that train and compete in group combat and various weapon combinations.

Sander_Marechal6• 11 years ago

I'm a HEMA practitioner from The Netherlands

I doubt it has close resemblance with medieval long sword fighting, though :-)

It does actually resemble it very much, but medieval longsword fighting was probably very different than what you think it was.

It must have been a lot slower fighting in leather, chainmail or plate armor than in this ultra light modern equipment.

Not really. The main difference is visibility. First, the modern HEMA equipment is a lot heavier than e.g. standard fencing gear. It's a lot thicker (like those dog attack suits) and often have steel or kevlar plates in the inside. Second, medieval gear wasn't all that heavy. I have a full suit of maille (as it's really called) and it weighs less than 15 kilos, helmet included. A full steel plate armour shouldn't weight more than 25 kilos. That's less than modern soldiers have to carry around on the battlefield.

The biggest difference is that a fencing mask gives you better visibility than a historical closed helmet.

these guys fight one on one

That's what happened in medieval times too most often. The original medieval books were written mostly for one-on-one combat, either for dueling or trial-by-sword. That happened a lot more than being caught in a war on a battlefield. Swords have little use on a medieval battlefield anyway. You use different weapons and tactics.

And fighting on some uneven, damp meadow [...] would be hard compared to fighting indoor on a floor.

My HEMA group trains for this as well, and I suspect many other groups too. It is also mentioned in the medieval books. I have trained in loose sand, in the surf on a beach, in deep snow, etc. It's true that competitions are usually held indoors on an even ground though.

yummyfajitas• 11 years ago

Swords have little use on a medieval battlefield anyway. You use different weapons and tactics.

Just curious - could you explain this in a bit more detail? It's surprising.

gatesphere2• 11 years ago

Hooray! Another HEMA practicioner!

I'm from upstate NY (US), and I agree wholeheartedly with everything mentioned here. This man speaks truth.

Our group focuses on medieval German Longsword, but we also take a dip into several other techniques, ranging through history from slings, to viking sword and axe, all the way through la canne and savate.

Like true vikings, we train in the snow (when the weather cooperates and gives us snowy fields). Nothing quite invigorates the blood like doing laps and duels in the frozen north!

BashiBazouk3• 11 years ago

So, what is difference between your group and The Society for Creative Anachronism? Is there cross over?

prawn• 11 years ago

A modern soldier is probably running in bursts and often firing from a crouched or prone position. I imagine someone fighting in armour with a swung weapon is going to feel the weight from the ongoing movement?

eru• 11 years ago

I heard that tournament armour was usually heavier than what was used for war? (I think tvtropes said so.)

sgt101• 11 years ago

I was really surprised to see people wearing fencing masks to do this. These masks are not designed to stand up to the kind of blows that are shown on this video, if I were doing it I would be inclined to wear a keno mask instead.

bane4• 11 years ago

It must have been a lot slower fighting in leather, chainmail or plate armor than in this ultra light modern equipment.

I recently saw a full-armor longsword fight. It was fast as hell. I'm talking leather, chainmail, chest plates and metal helmets. I could barely follow the action.

It was pretty awesome and that one live match turned me from skeptic into fan.

snori74• 11 years ago

Both SCA "heavy" fighting and HMB, as in the "Battle of Nations" are full-contact so tend to use armour similar to historical. Very different spins again on the whole topic, but worth looking into.

platz• 11 years ago

Interesting video of how round shields might not have been used the way we had expected: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkhpqAGdZPc

TLDR: The round shield was uniquely suited to be used or assist as an attack weapon instead of merely defensive

Cthulhu_• 11 years ago

I've seen a video of a big Polish swordfighting battle (you can probably find it on google), people in full armor and swords. What I could spot is that swords are completely ineffective against armor; swords glance off, are unable to penetrate armor, and just bend. I'd use a mace or club and beat people's head in. Which is probably why those weren't used in that one.

mcv4• 11 years ago

It's the disadvantage of recreating historical martial arts in a realistic way; if you actually did it completely realistic, you need to figure out what to do with all the bodies.

PakG13• 11 years ago

It must have been a lot slower fighting in leather, chainmail or plate armor than in this ultra light modern equipment.

One thing that nobody has mentioned so far is (I believe) people were much more fit in those days. Today we have a very sedentary lifestyle. Not so much in those days, people were much more active. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2614780/How-F...

anentropic• 11 years ago

fit people do exist in the present day too

some_username• 11 years ago

Regarding speed and mobility, you may be surprised.

The Met has a fantastic lecture, How to Mount a Horse in Armor and Other Chivalric Problems, where a this question is explicitly addressed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqC_squo6X4#t=1427

The short of it being that armor wasn't particularly heavy, especially when compared to the modern combat load, and that it affords quite a bit of mobility.

If this interests you, the entire lecture is worth your time.

daeken• 11 years ago

It must have been a lot slower fighting in leather, chainmail or plate armor than in this ultra light modern equipment.

Others have commented on the heft of modern equipment relative to medieval equivalents, but it bears mentioning that the plate armor of the period was exceptionally well made. Not just light weight, but form fitted for the wearer. It's been said that fighters in good plate could do cartwheels, due to the exceptional balance of the armor; it was like a second skin.

voidlogic4• 11 years ago

Also worth pointing out is not all fighting was done in armor. See my comment above: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8948675

TrevorJ• 11 years ago

Proper armor of the period was not like what we see in films, it wasn't nearly so clumsy.

It's a bit silly, but check this short clip out it will open your eyes a bit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm11yAXeegg

pluma8• 11 years ago

It also wasn't made out of rubber.

If only I had a dollar for each movie that shows rubber maille in closeups.

hookey• 11 years ago

Inside the world of having a video player that doesn't let you adjust the volume.

CurrentB• 11 years ago

Yeah that is extremely annoying.

ktzar• 11 years ago

I'd start with a "You fight like a dairy farmer"

simi_• 11 years ago

Hehe.

How appropriate. You fight like a cow.

All of them (spoilers!): http://www.worldofmi.com/gamehelp/insults/mi1.php

benbreen• 11 years ago

The book illustration/art history blog BibliOdyssey has some great scans of a 16th century German longsword fighting manual called Der Fechtbuch that features some of the moves seen in this video. As well as some that really surprised me, like the opening illustration of two combatants fighting with reversed swords (hilt to hilt rather than blade to blade) which was apparently an actual technique used for bludgeoning.

http://bibliodyssey.blogspot.com/2012/06/der-fechtkampf.html

nacho_weekend• 11 years ago

I remember an old post on /r/askhistorians about medieval fighting, and this article was referenced. There was even a video of two re-enactors emulating the style. It was vastly different than everything I'd come to expect from films, but it makes more sense when you think about it. Armor could be extremely effective for taking a direct sword hit, so the strategy was to almost wrestle your opponent up close and wedge the blade in between the plates, using both hands as leverage to slice.

bane4• 11 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwuQPfvSSlo

kbenson5• 11 years ago

The documentary "Reclaiming the Blade" is about the semi-lost art of medieval and renaissance sword fighting, and is quite good. If this topic is even slightly interesting, you'll probably find the documentary entertaining.

pmlnr• 11 years ago

European here. We've been doing this for a while.

moron4hire• 11 years ago

Someone should use their clout within the sci-fi and geek worlds to run a kickstarter for a video game based on realistic sword fighting, then completely drop the ball!

pluma8• 11 years ago

Too soon, mate. Too soon.

I mean, I still have the t-shirt.

IndianAstronaut• 11 years ago

I think I found my new hobby.

bane4• 11 years ago

If anybody is interested, with the revival of HEMA, we're starting to end up with longsword players who are getting up there with good Kendo players.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFGPCTMp2cw

machinshin_• 11 years ago

damn. both of those guys are really good

jafaku6• 11 years ago

The girl says "size shouldn't matter". Yeah right, because you are fighting for points.

jafaku6• 11 years ago

Why the downvotes? This is swords and armours, not guns. Strength matters a lot. Since apparently you already live in fantasy land, why don't you try fighting "The Mountain"? Then tell me if size doesn't matter.

jessaustin3• 11 years ago

Have you actually trained in any of the sword disciplines? If you do, you'll find that technique, speed, grace, and mental toughness are more important than size or strength. Ceteris paribus, of course, size and strength are advantages, but you'll find that ceteris are rarely paribus. Swords are tools, and human beings using tools are capable of surprising things.

I guarantee you, if you've played kendo at any decent dojo, you've had your ass kicked by an unassuming Japanese lady, or possibly her granddaughter. Even if you are like a Mountain, whatever that's supposed to mean.

pluma8• 11 years ago

Strength matters. But not as much as other factors.

Size can actually be a disadvantage. If you're small, you can cover more of your body with a sword of the same size. If you're bigger, you open up more of your body when you attack.

You have to be strong enough to hold a sword and to move a sword. Despite the unintuitively low weight of a well-balanced sword, that's actually something that takes some training. Not just strength training -- you need to train the actual muscles involved. You're holding weights in unusual positions, not picking up and putting down (or pulling and pushing) heavy things.

But beyond a certain point, strength doesn't matter. Sword fighting is not about jedi-style sword clashes with sparks flying off to the side as you try to wrestle the opponent off balance. Sword fighting is more about evasion and putting your sword where it needs to be at the right moment to hit the other guy.

Actually, aside from the "binding" that is being discussed a lot in the other comments, one of the best techniques is not actually making contact with the other guy's sword at all. If you hit the other guy's sword, your sword is bound as well. If you instead avoid being hit by the other guy's sword as it comes in and sidestep into a counter at the same time, his momentum evaporates as you land your fully controlled hit.

If the other guy has a strength advantage and wants to use it to win by brute force -- just don't play his game. Side-step, evade, move your body out of the way and your sword into him as he attacks.

If it's good enough for Asian martial arts, it works in HEMA too.

pakled_engineer• 11 years ago

If you live in Vancouver there actually is a srs swordfighting school http://www.academieduello.com/

wtbob• 11 years ago

Sadly, it doesn't play in Chrome on Linux.

flarg• 11 years ago

This looks so great: I've been looking for a martial art to supplement my daily workout and give me some strength and agility - and some fun - this seems a lot more exciting than the Krav Maga classes I was looking at. Anyone know if there's a good place in the UK to do this?

brosky117• 11 years ago

I'm not the type to be into this kind of thing but that slow-motion kill was sick! He/She caught their opponent wide open AND had the presence of mind to instantly defend. That was legit.

gknoy• 11 years ago

That slow-motion was pretty awesome, I agree. You could tell that the fencer had practiced that to where retreating into a defensive guard was likely instinctice. :)

When you look at many of the plates from earlier fencing manuals, such as those of Fabris or Capo Ferro (Italian fencers from the 1600s), many of the prime guards and ways you strike are done so that you are parrying in measure -- your blade and hilt are in a position that prevents the opponent's sword from connecting with your body. Many similar ideas are present in other swordmasters' treatises.

Disclaimer: I'm a terrible fencer, but several of my friends are up to their eyeballs in historican fencing, so when I go home on holiday, I get an earfull of it. ;)

JamesHester• 11 years ago

Hi All,

   Fascinating to see this matter being discussed on here. 

   By way of putting my cards on the table, I am a former curator from the Royal Armouries in England (most recently taking care of the RA collection at the Tower of London). I now live in Boston where I founded The School of Mars, teaching arming sword inspired from a variety of early manuals.

   A lot of the myths seem to have been adequately busted in this thread, for which I am thankful. But just to recap.

- Actual swordplay, even in armour, was much faster than we tend to give it credit for. The weapons were properly designed (longswords usually no more than 3lbs. and balanced such that the blade's weight was compensated for by a heavy pommel), allowing them to fly in the hands of someone trained to use them. The armour, too, was custom made for each person, fitting them like a second skin, allowing for a wide range of movement and for the weight (usually 45-60lbs for a battle harness) to be spread throughout the whole body rather than being carried in one or two places. Some of our interpreters would demonstrate this by doing somersaults, cartwheels, and even yoga poses in their harness.

- Yes, battlefield combat is a very different game from tournament style 'one on one' combat. Some techniques are more suited to one than the other. However, many of the techniques in the manuals are usable in both situations, and it is more a matter of the mindset and application of the individual. I agree that most of the HEMA community trains for tournament style combat, because this is mainly the way in which techniques are demonstrated and used in competition. It would be very interesting indeed for training regimes to work out systems of teaching how to apply these techniques to a battle environment.

- Categorizing HEMA is going to depend largely on what your intentions are in studying it. If you want to attempt to accurately re-create the style of fighting from a particular master/manual, and restrict your research/practice to just the contents of said manual and any contextualising resources, then you are more in the realm of re-enactment. I am not yet convinced that the full realization of this is possible, given that we are dealing with texts of variable clarity and no living individuals from an unbroken lineage to verify our theories. That is not to say that there isn't a martial/competitive aspect to this particular type of re-enactment, but in this case one is dealing with a fundamentally 'dead' style, with a set end date and a finite number of techniques, unable to change after its period.

- To make it a martial art requires that we allow the style to be organic, to grow with modern practitioners and teachers as everyone discovers variations of the style that suits them (much like the masters did themselves). This is the idea that I am attempting to bring about with School of Mars. The manuals form the foundation of the teachings, but as new insights from modern practitioners, who may have been exposed to other styles etc., the techniques adapt, or have new techniques or applications added on. We today have the benefit of access to a rich martial heritage that spans the globe, which the early masters did not. To some the thought of mingling them could be seen as heresy, but in my opinion doing so is simply part of reviving the martial arts of Europe in a modern setting. I suspect that the early masters would have leapt upon the opportunity to gain inspiration from other martial styles had they the ability.

/rant. :-)

pluma8• 11 years ago

About the battlefield combat: I'm not sure HEMA can really explore battlefield combat at scale, at least not with very strict minimum requirements on armour.

HEMA tries to follow the authentic fighting styles very closely and therefore places a lot of emphasis on killing/disarming blows, including stabs to the head (at eye level) or throat and slashes at the hands. This works with sufficient protective gear under controlled conditions.

Battlefield scenarios as seen in re-enactment are far more chaotic. It works because the ruleset is the spectral opposite of HEMA: no stabs to the head, no blows to the hands. Basically medieval combat without the "fun parts".

I don't think it'd be possible to create that kind of environment with a HEMA ruleset without making a whole lot more dangerous and accident prone.

OTOH battlefield re-enactment can frequently get away with barely any armour at all (because the rules emphasize safe techniques) while plated gambesons and face guards seem to be the norm in most of HEMA.

Meh. What do I know anyway.

MagaManGo• 11 years ago

This is so freaking cool. They are much faster with the sword attacks than I would have imagined.

daktanis• 11 years ago

Hmm....may have to find somewhere to do this in Orlando.

Inside the world of longsword fighting

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