A trucker trying to hack the haulage industry [video]

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30588704

by yctay • 12 years ago

88 64 12 years ago

bbc.com

aembleton• 12 years ago

Brilliant. Seems to be a simple but effective time saver.

He's got more information here: http://www.idatatruck.co.uk/

drmarianus• 12 years ago

It is nearly unbelievable to me that this hasn't been done already by shipping companies.

_-__---• 12 years ago

In the US, I do believe that this technology exists. Whether or not all shipping firms have adopted it, I'm not certain.

As for the UK, I have even less of an idea. Either way, this fella had to call in each time a haul was transferred, so it seems that he's saved himself and the company a bit of trouble.

mbreese• 12 years ago

It does exist in the US. The ones I've seen are linked to GPS trackers that are added to fleets, so it's more a company adopted thing than a driver adopted thing.

The amount of data that you can get is pretty impressive from tracking a driver in real-time. There are even versions with cameras pointed at the driver and the road to record any "adverse events". In this way, it's less focused on the driver and more focused on fleet management.

cubano• 12 years ago

I think it has been.

I interviewed for a job in Las Vegas last year where I was shown this sort of technology for the trucking/shipping industry, albeit more server-based and not so distributed.

My hats off to this guy.

Shivetya• 12 years ago

likely in different forms, think UPS/Fed Ex with their tablets and GPS connected trucks. Many trucking companies know exactly where their trucks are, they don't need to be told when they left; likely only why they haven't

acadien3• 12 years ago

Self driving cars are going to upend this industry (eventually). Many mining companies are actively working on getting their mining equipment to be automated to do the riskier jobs without risking drivers. The same ideas apply here. Remove the driver and suddenly you have a truck that runs deliveries 24/7 and only stops to refuel and get serviced. One would hope that as the technology gets more sophisticated the number of accidents would drop, the vehicles could safely drive and react at higher speeds, and of course self optimize their routes and driving styles to save on fuel.

akira25015• 12 years ago

It's not really the vehicles.

It's the loading docks, the fueling stations, the truck scales and all the rest of the infrastructure that supports trucking.

All of those are going to need to have "automated truck" support as well, not to mention, when an 18 wheeler blows out a tire, you need some skills to bring the truck to a successful stop, but even more skills and equipment to effect the repair.

Mining operations are easier because they work on their own property and aren't required to mix with other passenger vehicles.

I know you said "eventually," but I suspect that it's going to take at least 50 years before we're anywhere even close.

t413• 12 years ago

   you need some skills to bring the truck to a successful stop

True, but that's skill most drivers don't have. Add in-wheel pressure and temperature sensors-- plus scheduled maintenance checkups and that problem mostly goes away. There are also numerous examples of adaptive control systems landing aircraft after major failures (quadcopters with 3 props, planes with 1 wing) that humans can't handle.

You bring up good difficulties. Still-- most of those problems have solutions and I sure hope it's sooner than 50 years from now we see self-driving long-haul trucks on the road.

kevin_thibedeau• 12 years ago

when an 18 wheeler blows out a tire, you need some skills to bring the truck to a successful stop, but even more skills and equipment to effect the repair.

An automated truck won't need a conventional cab. It could essentially be a powered sled that rigidly attaches to a trailer with much less forward projection. This would be easier to control in emergency stops.

Retric3• 12 years ago

One huge advantage of a self driving truck is it can easily wait 4+ hours for a tow truck to arrive for minor repairs at little cost. Or be swapped out for another rig and hauled off for more major repairs.

Scoundreller2• 12 years ago

All of those are going to need to have "automated truck" support as well

Do they?

The trucks don't need to automate 100% of tasks for initial implementation, the first ones will be driverless in-between cities (or driver-nap in-between cities) with manned fueling, loading docks, scales, etc.

This will require some changes, but I don't think it will be too much of an issue to move toward full-serve gasoline service in the interim.

at-fates-hands2• 12 years ago

I've always be leery of self driving cars. They run on software. Software is only is good as the guy programming it.

What happens when the software develops a bug? Be it in the middle of rush hour traffic, or hurling down the highway at 70mph?

For all of the great things we know self driving cars can potentially bring to the table, how do we account for the issue of buggy software?

Evolved3• 12 years ago

At least the bug is able to be diagnosed and traced along where it started from all the way until the accident where it caused a problem.

Try diagnosing someone suddenly getting pissed off and cutting off another driver which sets off a chain reaction of the events leading up to a multi-vehicle collision. The driver may attempt to cover-up, deny or lie about what happened to protect themselves whereas the software would not have such self-preservation and would report things as they occurred without being concerned with assigning blame or establishing guilt.

Software is not going to turn its head and rubberneck at an accident and in turn, rear end the car in front of it.

rogerbinns3• 12 years ago

You mean you'd prefer humans to do the driving? Youtube is full of human examples - start here as an example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwL7S--E5oQ - and note that it ranges from minor fender benders through some very serious injuries and destruction.

There are lots of examples of not being able to stay in lane, pulling out, not seeing stopped traffic, not paying attention to surroundings. Humans can't even get the trivial simple things right in broad daylight.

(Yes I am aware that you are in the 97% of drivers who are absolutely convinced they are above average. That doesn't make it true. Yes the video mainly has clips from Russia - you can find USA based ones too. And a 9/11 happens on US roads each and every month. People are dying in large numbers because of human drivers.)

Edit: added warning about video content

jameskilton• 12 years ago

Cars currently run on millions of lines of software. Airlines run on even more. Medical equipment is heavily run by software.

Software already runs our lives, and worrying about the quality of the underlying software is a strawman. When was the last time a code bug took out a car or an airliner? Some industries have very stringent requirements and QA processes to make sure the code is bug free and can't kill people.

Also, Google's self-driving car is already a far better driver than a majority of the drivers on the road today http://theoatmeal.com/blog/google_self_driving_car

Personally I can't wait until the human aspect of driving is completely removed from day-to-day travel.

TeMPOraL5• 12 years ago

I've always be leery of self driving cars. They run on software. Software is only is good as the guy programming it.

Software is as good as the best team we can find to write it, and then it can get constantly improved - unlike meat drivers, whose firmware cannot be easily flashed. Moreover, when switching from human control to software you're trading the need for quick evaluation and reaction of driving conditions repeated times number of drivers for a long, concentrated time spent on development and testing. It seems to me like a good trade-off. You can spend all the time you want writing, testing and fixing software up until you reach the point it drives better than humans.

And then you have usual, obvious advantages - self-driving cars won't get tired, emotional, distracted by texting and definitely won't be driving in blatant disregard of traffic laws because "they're pointless and that's how real drivers do things".

throwawaymsft• 12 years ago

Software is only is good as the guy programming it.

I guess chess computers can never beat a human then. Because the software is only as good as the guy writing it.

What happens when the software develops a bug? Be it in the middle of rush hour traffic, or hurling down the highway at 70mph?

What happens when a human is inexperienced/texting/drunk/sleepy? Humans have plenty of "bugs" but you don't notice them.

For all of the great things we know self driving cars can potentially bring to the table, how do we account for the issue of buggy software?

Trials. Testing. Every accident (which is inevitable) will be scrutinized and used to improve the system (unlike the 40k annual deaths in the US where that unfortunate experience helps nobody, except perhaps installing a traffic light or barrier).

vubuntu• 12 years ago

This applies to everything. Why just software?

I could say the same about mechanical or electronics of a vehicle

"I've always been leery of vehicles. They run on mechanical parts. Mechanical parts are only as good as the mechanical engineer that designed them and the quality of material. What if a newly introduced part was not well tested and developed a stress failure due to design or material deficiency. Be it in the middle of rush hour traffic, or hurling down the highway at 70mph? How do we account for the issue of buggy mechanical parts or electronics "

See how that works? Everything other than your own two legs is man made. It's just the level of maturity of the process and testing and time that eventually gives you enough confidence to start trusting any human made device, whether it is software, mechanical, electric, electronic etc...

acadien3• 12 years ago

Have you ever ridden in a plane? Then you've relied on software to keep you alive.

Have you ever been to a hospital? Then you've relied on software to keep you alive.

Software controls everything from ovens to nuclear weapons systems. This is not a new concept.

Systemic33• 12 years ago

We are still a long way from vehicles without human occupants. The most modern lorries by Mercedes-Benz are very autonoumous, but still need a driver to be with the lorry.

Since lorries rarely just go from marked up parking spot to parking spot, but at their destinations probably have to navigate unconventional layouts, etc, they will for the forseeable future include drivers.

But what I expect to see happen, is that the logistics will become more decentralized, since the driver can now spend more time on administration, and less on driving, essentially taking over the job of the company command central.

Evolved3• 12 years ago

As the largest factor in accidents other than DUI is inattentiveness[1](tired or texting) then self-driving cars with limited ability for drivers to perform actions that could cause an accident or effect efficiency would be a huge boon.

Imagine saying, "sorry my car cut off your car!" with sincerity and a little tongue-in-cheek humor as well.

Then there's also the efficiency factor as far as maximizing capacity in lanes and maintaining speed to streamline commuting. Merging could be vastly improved if cars were able to zipper merge better.

[1] http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/humanfa...

radicalbyte• 12 years ago

These self-driving vehicles will most likely have a lower base risk for accidents - they don't get tired, they don't get distracted.

However their potential for a Black Swan event is enormous. They could run perfectly for 5 years then an unexpected bug could cause 50% of vehicles to spontaneously accelerate to max speed and then pull a hard right..

B0Z• 12 years ago

Honest question. Don't you think this kind of AI is precisely the AI that Gates, Musk, and Hawking are warning against?

TeMPOraL5• 12 years ago

No, they're warning us about an AI which could outsmart or outperform us, and lead to our demise as it pursues the goals we've encoded into it without realizing they lead to a result we don't want.

kbenson• 12 years ago

I don't think so. I think a case can be made that he's talking less about SkyNet and more about the risks something like an automated trading algorithm (or planning system, or any case where we put too much trust in a system as infallible) ten years in the future causing major disruption due to too much trust in a fallible system as being infallible.

There's also the possibility that a true AI (not just a complex expert system as above) may be fallible just like a person in not being able to correctly account for the unknown unknowns.

In the end I think it's about the difference between automating positions to make them more efficient (meaning it's still possible to do manually but less efficiently) and relying on things that are essentially impossible to do manually, such as an economic planning AI which may outperform regular economists 95% of the time. The question is what happens in that 5%, and will it catch the problem, and if not, will we keep listening to it as it takes us down a dangerous path.

nickthemagicman2• 12 years ago

The amount of information an automated vehicle would have to be able to decipher to be capable of being truly autonomous is pretty much pushing beyond the most advanced A.I. and visual learning academia has discovered today.

I don't know what gps resolves to but it's definitely not down to the foot that's required for some of the hairy situations truckers encounter on the road and our visual learning technology is terribly insufficient for even the most basic road conditions much less your average New England construction zone.

Even google cars can't handle weather or potholes or unpredictable situations well. From what I read they had to be coded for very specific paths around San Fran and any unpredictability would cause them trouble.

A more likely scenario in my mind is Drone trucks. Why can't a trucker head to the office drive his truck from his desk then go home at night?

Combine that with some gps autopilot and/or magnetic strips in the road as a guide and that's totally realistic even with todays technology.

These are more likely scenarios.

Edit: even cooler would be autonomous or drone blimps carrying cargo!

http://rt.com/news/aeroscraft-revolutionary-airship-cargo-18...

Sophistifunk• 12 years ago

Drone trucks would also provide a metric fuckton of training data for autonomous vehicle research. I dunno how much effect the lag would have on safety.

toomuchtodo• 12 years ago

I don't know what gps resolves to but it's definitely not down to the foot that's required for some of the hairy situations truckers encounter on the road

Precision positioning, using correction data similar to WAAS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Area_Augmentation_System) but heavily localized can provide sub-centimeter positioning data. This is already in use today for agriculture (self-driving combines, with waypoints configured from the farmer's desktop at home).

A more likely scenario in my mind is Drone trucks. Why can't a trucker head to the office drive his truck from his desk then go home at night?

UAVs can stay flying if a signal is lost, or navigate using GPS to the nearest friendly runway to autoland if they lose touch with their pilot in the Las Vegas area (where most UAVs are piloted from). Ground vehicles traveling 60+ mph do not have this option. Therefore, AI is a superior option.

Evolved3• 12 years ago

This guy is fantastic for being so proactive in his approach while being careful to (what appears to) run the system in such a way that it does not interfere with the way the truck operates. Not to mention the saved seconds or minutes which add up after a while.

eutropia• 12 years ago

Saw his code had a bunch of sleep() statements in it -- I wonder why that is?

Groxx• 12 years ago

they appear to always be on gpio 23 and 24, which a comment implies is for making beeping sounds (I'm guesing two-tone?). I'm guessing it's just to play beep sequences after it has done X or Y.

JoblessWonder• 12 years ago

In the BBC video you can hear a few different beep patterns at 3:00-3:08.

towelguy• 12 years ago

Instead of going through all the hassle of doing barcodes and getting a barcode scanner, he could make a mobile application with buttons for each predefined message to send over email/twitter. Probably something like this already exists.

rwhitman2• 12 years ago

Kind of fascinating that his preferred interface is physical buttons built into the cab, and a barcode scanner.

I can't imagine no one has built mobile software in this space yet, so there's got to be a reason he doesn't have a tablet sitting on his dashboard. He even built an app but curiously didn't opt to use that as his primary interface for the other functions. Says something about what a working truck driver actually needs & wants vs what a software developer would expect as the solution here.

bobbles• 12 years ago

Tactile feedback, muscle memory or feeling for buttons without moving eyeline around, not getting grease/dirty hands all over a tablet, etc

rwhitman2• 12 years ago

I just realized that truck drivers may also be regulated regarding what types of devices they can have when driving, which would explain a lot. Yellow cabs in NYC for instance are forbidden to use GPS due to safety reasons and generally rely on dispatchers to get around. Truckers probably have even more safety rules to follow

throw7• 12 years ago

I don't have video... can someone summarize what this guy did in plain text?

A trucker trying to hack the haulage industry [video]

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