Why Your Cat Thinks You’re a Huge, Unpredictable Ape

http://www.wired.com/2014/10/cat-thinks-youre-huge-unpredictable-ape/

by tchalla • 12 years ago

146 116 12 years ago

Because we are.

Exactly where my brain went, and, as a former Wired subscriber back in my teens, I feel like either my memory of them is fuzzy, or they've become more of a click-bait BuzzFeed-y kind of publication as time has progressed. Probably just fuzzy memory. ;)

pestaa• 12 years ago

You mean they've been click-bait BuzzFeed-y kind of publication the whole time? :)

I was never a Wired subscriber, but a lot of content now seems garbage I used to joyfully consume as a teenager.

bpyne• 12 years ago

Unpredictable is my cat weaving its way downstairs every morning in front of me and suddenly stopping. I'm sure something puts his senses on high alert but you'd think after the first few times I tripped on him, knocking him down the stairs, he might learn.

He's been a great addition to our family but, to sum up my experience with a cat: he's an overly neurotic animal with some of the finest reflexes I've ever witnessed.

JoeAltmaier2• 12 years ago

Its a morning greeting thing - cats get up and greet one another by weaving around and brushing sides together, perhaps sharing scent.

Your cat can no more learn not to do that, than it can control its sleep.

kosma• 12 years ago

He thinks that after a few times you should learn to pay attention to what's happening in front of you. What kind of hunter are you if you constantly bump into other hunters? ;)

bayesianhorse2• 12 years ago

On Youtube there is a channel called "Cat Mojo" by someone called Jackson Galaxy. He also has an animal planet show called "My Cat From Hell".

His approach to behavioral problems in cats is quite fascinating. And it seems to work. For anyone involved with cats, this is a must-see.

probablyfiction• 12 years ago

I had no idea that Jackson had a youtube presence. I'm going to have to check it out. His Animal Planet show is hilariously awful, though Mr. Galaxy does seem to know how to interact with cats.

erroneousfunk2• 12 years ago

He's kind of like a cringe-inducingly awkward quirky friend you can't stop hanging out with, even though you KNOW it's going to be slightly uncomfortable. I feel the same way about Alex Trebek.

bayesianhorse2• 12 years ago

I think his show is great and gives a lot of insight into cats. His approach doesn't sound scientific, but on the other hand he isn't over-intellectualizing behavior.

jchendy• 12 years ago

"This is because cats evolved as solitary hunters with little need for reading social cues, especially those for behavior modification."

[...]

“How the hell is your cat supposed to know that you’re yelling at him because you want him to stop scratching the couch?”

[...]

"When your cat does the thing you want her do to, reward her with a treat, or affection."

If we accept that cats can't learn from negative reinforcement, why would we think that positive reinforcement would work?

cstross• 12 years ago

Because positive reinforcement does work on cats -- the problem is, finding the positive behavioural pattern to reinforce!

Positive and negative reinforcement patterns are not opposites, they're entirely separate processes.

(Cat owner here.)

readerrrr• 12 years ago

Perhaps because yelling isn't necessarily interpreted as something negative, while food is certainly something positive.

XorNot• 12 years ago

This is all wrong though.

Domestic cats have been domesticated for a long time. Cats which live with humans (or even other cats - they do naturally form colonies) adopt a number of pro-social behaviours to interact with us.

They are in fact very adept at reading social cues - but conversely they are not pack-animals. They don't have the same instinctive need to identify a hierarchy of command, so much as "mess with" and "don't mess with".

lingben• 12 years ago

Among the most common being meowing. Cats do not mew at other cats, only at humans.

puzzlingcaptcha4• 12 years ago

Domestic cats have been domesticated for a long time.

That sounds like lamarckism. Or do you suggest that cats were selectively bred for their social behaviour? I find it dubious.

Proleps• 12 years ago

Punishment also works on cats. You just have to be very consistent when applying it (this is exactly the same for dogs). If you punish your cat(or dog) you have to do it immediately. If the cat is done scratching its nails, and you squirt water, you are too late.

[Edit] Changed negative reinforcement to punishment, rbehrends was correct when he pointed out that negative reinforcement is something different.

rbehrends• 12 years ago

That's not negative reinforcement. Negative reinforcement is when behavior is reinforced by removing an aversive stimulus. Yelling at a cat because it's scratching the couch is positive punishment [1].

And punishment works quite differently from reinforcement to begin with; it is typically less effective for far better socialized species such as humans and dogs, too.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning#Consequenc...

angersock• 12 years ago

Thank you!

People mix this up all the time, and it gives me an eye twitch. Psych 101 people, cmon.

mcv• 12 years ago

Well, positive reinforcement is better than negative reinforcement because instead of presenting yourself as an unpredictable angry ape, you're presenting yourself as a source of treats, which is better. Who cares why the cat is getting treats?

wuliwong• 12 years ago

They think that because they don't logic well. :)

I thought the same thing. I hate that any comment on a HN post adds to it's score. I would like this comment counted as a negative. This article is terrible.

azernik• 12 years ago

The issue (which the article explained badly) isn't that punishment doesn't work; it's that cats don't understand human social cues.

For a dog, yelling is a punishment on its own, because they understand what the tone of voice means. A cat will just think "hmm, the human got louder - I wonder why?" If you're trying to punish a cat for things, you either need a physical stimulus they don't like (spray bottle, for example) or a social cue they understand (hissing is moderately effective, though that's more of a warning than a punishment).

saool• 12 years ago

"You won't believe what happens after Wired turns into Buzzfeed".

jordanpg2• 12 years ago

It's OK, this one's legit. It's on Wired.

hvs• 12 years ago

Free cat advice: If your cat is going outside of its litter box, it is most likely because it isn't cleaned regularly (would you like to stand in poop to go the bathroom?). You should be cleaning it at least once per day.

gadders5• 12 years ago

Or install a cat flap and let your cat go outside?

metafex2• 12 years ago

So that the cat can go outside to play and come back to shit? :) (happenes from time to time)

ohhoe2• 12 years ago

Yeah so your cat can go to someone elses house, or get run over by a car, or get attacked by animals.

Great suggestion.

greedo2• 12 years ago

Read about how many wild animals an outdoor cat kills in a typical year...

csixty4• 12 years ago

At least in the US the outdoors are no place for cats. I see dead cats on the side of the road far too often. People leave out antifreeze to poison cats so they won't poop in their yard or attack birds. Sometimes they shoot them for fun. And sometimes they saw off their back legs for kicks [1].

I've also seen way too many FIV+ cats come through the shelter system, transferred when they're attacked by FIV+ strays. If you ever need to give up your pet, FIV+ status is an immediate death sentence in many shelters. In no-kill shelters, it means a longer stay because some people are weirded out about "cat AIDS".

[1] http://planetbratfink.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-story-of-ange...

post_break5• 12 years ago

Yeah that's great and all but I've tried that. 3 litter boxes. All cleaned twice a day, and he still shits on the carpet 2 feet away from the box. Lid on, lid off, big sidewalls, different cat litter. I've tried it all. The little shit just likes shitting on carpet I guess. And putting the fear of god into him does nothing.

zrail2• 12 years ago

Then there's something else about his environment that isn't right, or he's sick. Have you taken him to the vet lately?

charleso• 12 years ago

Your cat might have a bladder or kidney stone which is causing extreme pain when pooping. Please take your cat to the vet and have that checked out.

I ran into the same thing: Cat pooped in exotic, awkward places, but never the litter box. Never looked like she was in pain -- just being stubborn, I figured. Turned out to be a bladder stone brought on by the ingredients in modern cat food (put in place to help other feline health issues, but which causes stones in a small subset of cats). After the stones were cleared up, all litter box issues disappeared.

mediaman• 12 years ago

I had a similar problem but with peeing, despite three litter boxes and regular cleaning. He'd go in the same room, five feet away. It go so bad that the carpet started developing some sort of fungal growth, which was gross. I read up on it and apparently some cats develop a "texture preference," especially for carpet.

So in the utility room I used for the litter boxes, I replaced the carpet with some cheap engineered wood flooring (Pergo or some similar knockoff brand). Problem went away. I think it is very weird/uncomfortable for them to go on a smooth hard surface, and carpet is a rougher surface that sort of could feel like dirt or grass.

dominotw3• 12 years ago

Get litter robot (http://www.litter-robot.com/litter-robot.aspx?id=13). It changed my life.

JoeAltmaier2• 12 years ago

Wow. You can even buy 'reconditioned' units. Not sure about that one.

loupgarou21• 12 years ago

You are right that this is generally true for my cats, unfortunately, one of our cats will periodically go outside the box for other reasons.

For two cats, we have three litter boxes that are cleaned daily, new litter is added every couple of weeks as the level of the litter goes down, and then the boxes are fully emptied and fresh litter added about every three months, and that keeps them mostly happy. Unfortunately, one of the cats will periodically pee outside the box even when the box is perfectly clean, and the reasons are many, and somewhat ambiguous.

Sometimes it's the litter. Either we're trying a new litter, or the manufacturer changes the litter, and the cat doesn't like the new litter for some reason.

Sometimes it's the environment. She's using the litter box and there's a sudden noise for some reason, and then she won't use that box again for a while. Not really a problem when we have three boxes, unless she's been startled while using all of them within a short period of time.

Sometimes she's feeling stressed out. If we rearrange the furniture, the seasons are changing (generally only going into winter does this seem to be a problem,) can't pay as much attention to her for a prolonged period of time, go on vacation, or bring home a new child, she's far more prone to peeing outside the litter box.

She never poops outside the litter box, only ever pees.

We've pretty much just formed a routine to minimize the peeing issues. We keep the litter boxes clean, we make sure we pay enough attention to her, and we try to encourage her to use her litter box at least once a day. If we haven't seen her pee in the litter box for a few days (does not mean she hasn't used it, just hasn't used it in front of us) we start to minimize the available options for her to pee in/on (easier than it sounds, she tries to find substitutes for her litter box, so anything box like, or that she can use to bury, like throw rugs.)

huehue• 12 years ago

"Exposing her belly is not a trap the cat is setting"

Nobody buys this.

percept2• 12 years ago

It's what she wants you to believe!

ssebastianj• 12 years ago

Something I've learned over the years ( and five cats) is: Never touch a cat when he/she is taking a sunbath. It's a trap!

randallsquared• 12 years ago

I live with two cats who both think that you rubbing their bellies while they're sleeping is only their natural due, and they often protest when you stop.

joshschreuder• 12 years ago

My cat does this and doesn't even bite when I rub her belly gently, so I guess I'm either lucky or my cat doesn't conform to normality!

ck2• 12 years ago

If you've ever had shingles you'd never name something you love shingles!

But one thing I know about cats is they really have a set routine, getting them to change it is near impossible, you juat have to go with the flow.

RankingMember2• 12 years ago

As someone who started brushing their cats' teeth after cavities/tartar/gingivitis caused a lot of pain and resulted in some expensive extractions, change is possible, but you've got to stick to it 100%, no matter how much blood you lose.

chris_wot4• 12 years ago

If I ever get a cat, it's name will be Dr Buffington. But only because Chairman Mao is tacky.

percept2• 12 years ago

I came here to write the same thing (thus upvoted).

chris_wot4• 12 years ago

Whimsy on HN will always be downvoted :-)

dominotw3• 12 years ago

Why Chairman meow tacky. My cats name is chairman meow.

nobodysfool• 12 years ago

Mao is Chinese for cat.

gadders5• 12 years ago

Reading that article, I can't help but think most of those problems would be a lot less likely to occur if your cat was allowed outside with a cat flap or similar.

If you're cat goes outside you tend not to need scratching posts and litter trays for starters.

breischl2• 12 years ago

Everyone in your neighborhood would like to thank you for encouraging your cat to crap in their yards and letting them pick it up.

Get a litter box and clean up after your own damn pet.

objclxt5• 12 years ago

You know that cats bury their poop, right? When I lived in London, where it's the norm to let your cat out, I never encountered any cat poo in my garden, and we had around half a dozen local cats.

josefresco• 12 years ago

At least in my part of the world, coyotes and foxes prey rather successfully on household pets allowed to roam freely outside.

gadders5• 12 years ago

In the UK we really only have neighbour's dogs. Foxes tend to run from cats.

objclxt5• 12 years ago

Although I'm with you on the litter tray, my poor sofa is a testament to the fact having a cat flap is no prevention strategy! I think my cat honestly just preferred scratching the couch to anything else available...

valevk• 12 years ago

My cat purrs like a drunk after passing out, when I give him belly rubs!

ohhoe2• 12 years ago

I won't hear it.

My cat loves me and thinks I am a giant cuddly friend.

And dispenser of food.

pilif• 12 years ago

He just doesn’t know how to connect your negative reinforcement with his behavior.

I don't know. The one time I got seriously mad at Yoshi (my cat) was when he bit through an ethernet cable. That was the one single time I've actually squirted water at him and threw him out of my appartment.

Since then neither my ethernet cables nor my iPhone USB cables got bitten through any more (he also knows that chewing on iphone cables and headphones is a very good way to get attention).

There's a lot of stuff I let slide with him (maybe too much - I love him to bits), but he really seems to respect the fact that chewing on cables is a total no-go (also: bloody dangerous - some carry current)

tfinniga• 12 years ago

Yeah, that bit of the article was not very good.

Several paragraphs to say "Your cat can't figure out negative reinforcement - their brains just can't handle it! Change the environment instead."

Then right next to that, it's all "You should give your cat positive reinforcement, that totally works!"

Not that it's bad advice to have positive reinforcement come from you and negative reinforcement come from the environment, but the explanation is poor.

erroneousfunk2• 12 years ago

Yeah, I also have a 1.5 year old cat who is great at not getting on counters because we threw her (gently!) off of them so many times. In fact, if she gets up on anything she's not supposed to be on, you just have to stare at her and point at the floor, and she jumps off (we have lots of appropriate climbing places, but she hasn't yet figured out that there's a difference between "on the TV stand when it's off, and on the TV stand when we're watching it")

The 6 month old Russian Blue? Not so much. I get the feeling that "negative reinforcement" doesn't apply to all cats all the time.

mercnet• 12 years ago

Cat's definitely do understand punishment for their behavior. My girlfriend's cat will scratch the couch and immediately start running away as he knows we are going to squirt him.

edw519• 12 years ago

How to Treat Your Cat (or Manager)

1. Any cat > any thing, no matter how expensive. I wish my carpets and furniture weren't all scratched up, but I really don't care that much.

Corollary: Any manager > any project. The project may fail, but the manager may do another.

2. Let the cat initiate all action. They will let you know when they want to eat/sleep/play/cuddle/hang out. Respond predictably to their action.

Corollary: Keep coding until interrupted by your manager. Smile, listen, pretend to care, agree. Then continue coding.

3. Every time you return (even from the mailbox), greet the cat as if you hadn't seen each other for years. I don't know how cats perceive the passage time, but what difference does that really make?

Corollary: Document everything discussed with your manager and share the notes during your next meeting to remind them of what they probably won't remember.

4. Listen to the cat. They do have words, just not in the same language. Tonality and body language leave very important clues.

Corollary: Learn the definition of terms like: bandwidth, key results, deep dive, follow-up, subject matter expert, and ROI so you know what the hell your manager is talking about.

5. Include the cat in your plans when applicable. They may surprise you by enjoying watching football on TV, relaxing in the yard, or even eating together.

Corollary: Give your manager a status report so they know what's going on. Otherwise, they'll just interrupt you when you're right in the middle of coding a difficult algorithm.

6. If the cat gets scared, growls, scratches, or bites, you probably did something wrong. Identify and correct the problem.

Corollary: If the project fails, it's your fault because it can't be your manager's fault.

7. Even though it's not human, the cat is a member of your family and should be treated accordingly.

Corollary: Even though they can't code and have never built anything, your manager deserves as much respect as anyone else.

obviouslygreen• 12 years ago

Response to corollary on #7: "Anyone else" deserves about as much respect as your cat.

The idea that a creature that enjoys destroying your possessions, arbitrarily ignoring you for most of its life despite depending entirely upon you, expects total obedience despite no contribution or investment, has never earned a dollar in its life and has no concept of what a dollar is or why that might be important to it, intrinsically deserves anything so important as respect is ridiculous.

I'm not suggesting you leave your cat or your manager out to rot with the garbage (though I wouldn't argue, in most cases). But to suggest that either of these creatures, by default, deserves any measure of respect is hilarious to me.

xioxox• 12 years ago

has never earned a dollar in its life and has no concept of what a dollar is or why that might be important to it

Huh? What has earning money got to do with respect? Many people I respect don't have money as any of their main goals. Surely, money is only a means to an end and not an end in itself.

al2o3cr• 12 years ago

"The idea that a creature that enjoys destroying your possessions, arbitrarily ignoring you for most of its life despite depending entirely upon you, expects total obedience despite no contribution or investment, has never earned a dollar in its life and has no concept of what a dollar is or why that might be important to it, intrinsically deserves anything so important as respect is ridiculous"

I bet you make a GREAT babysitter.

godDLL• 12 years ago

What if he substituted 'restraint' for 'respect'? His argument wouldn't change, but would yours?

findjashua• 12 years ago

your argument would've been somewhat palatable if you'd just left out

"has never earned a dollar in its life and has no concept of what a dollar is or why that might be important to it"

pessimizer2• 12 years ago

"Why Your Dog Thinks You're a Large, Friendly Dog."

duckingtest• 12 years ago

Want to tell a cat to follow you? Stare him in the eyes, then drag your eyes slowly, turn back and start going. The reverse is true too - that's how a cat tells you to follow you. For a "no" or "get away" I found hissing to be the most effective.

“Cats don’t understand glass, but they do understand height,” Buffington says

This statement is false, my cat definitely understands what glass is.

click1702• 12 years ago

The BBC just did a 3 part special called Cat Watch where they follow the lives of several cats in a small town in the UK, attaching small cameras to the cats to see what they get up to, and demonstrating things like how cats use their whiskers to "see" things right in front of them because their vision is poor at close range and how they communicate with us. I recommend it if you're a cat person.

GFischer2• 12 years ago

I agree, it's an amazing documentary, obligatory if you're a cat person:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnbRoRmRV2c

(I normally don't watch long videos).

vladnyc• 12 years ago

blocked :( This video contains content from BBC Worldwide, who has blocked it on copyright grounds.

jordanpg2• 12 years ago

There is something interesting buried in this article: "Without the cognitive ability to connect your outburst to their scratching, cats see only chaotic aggression."

Unfortunately, the author asserts it without evidence. How cats understand cause and effect relative to humans is something I ponder from time to time.

bambax• 12 years ago

I have a cat and I talk to her and she talks to me.

There's a couch she likes best but I don't want her on it; every time she goes near it I just say "no" and she turns around (she won't get off of it if she's already on it by voice alone, though).

If there's no food left for her she comes to my study and does a very specific meow, and I know I need to replenish the thing.

She sleeps during the day and lives outside during the night, bringing back the occasional dead mouse on the front porch in the morning.

We don't have that many interactions but we understand one another, I think, pretty well.

Why Your Cat Thinks You’re a Huge, Unpredictable Ape

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