‘Craft’ Whiskey Is Probably From a Factory Distillery in Indiana

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/28/your-craft-whiskey-is-probably-from-a-factory-distillery-in-indiana.html

by ceejayoz • 12 years ago

126 112 12 years ago

thedailybeast.com

onion2k• 12 years ago

If someone tells you something is amazing and gives you the notion that it'll be better than a competitor's 'factory made' product then you'll enjoy it more. Not in the sense that you simply believe it's nicer, but in the cognitive brain chemistry sense that you will actually enjoy it more - different parts of your brain will light up on an MRI scan. Even if it's an identical product. Just telling someone that one bottle is better than another is enough to change how they'll react to it. It's a cognitive bias called expectation bias - what you expect to happen affects the result you get. It's one of the reasons why we do double-blind studies.

Of course, whether or not you consider that 'adding value' enough to sell to people or being fraudulent is a matter of opinion.

Retric• 12 years ago

It's still fraudulent even if it adds value.

theklub• 12 years ago

Isn't this just re-branding?

chrisgd• 12 years ago

Seems duplicitous to say the least.

acheron2• 12 years ago

My favorite local/"craft" rye whiskey gets a mention in the article as one that actually makes their own: Catoctin Creek, here in northern Virginia. [1]

Anyway, there are a couple issues with the labeling. One is that some may feel the TTB's requirements aren't strict enough. The second issue is that the TTB is swamped and violations of the existing requirements get through all the time until someone gets around to filing a complaint.

Chuck Cowdery is quoted in the article, his blog [2] touches on these issues a lot, both with MGP rye and similar problems with bourbon.

[1] http://catoctincreekdistilling.com/

[2] http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/

swasheck2• 12 years ago

I live in Colorado and the closest retailer of Caotctin Creek is in Wyoming. Thinking about picking some up the next time I drive through Cheyenne. Do you think it's worth it to make a special stop?

georgebrabazon• 12 years ago

Honestly, no, Caotctin does some interesting things, but they are a bit hit and miss and I wouldn't go hugely out of my way for them.

acheron2• 12 years ago

Depends on what you mean by "special stop" I guess. If you're driving by anyway, then sure, go ahead. It's a solid rye whiskey, probably pretty different from others you've had, and definitely worth trying. But it's not going to change your life or anything, so you don't need to go too far. :)

thedufer• 12 years ago

I'm not a whiskey drinker, but they make a damn good gin. Maybe that in addition to the whiskey would make it worthwhile?

swasheck2• 12 years ago

Leopold Bros. is a great local (to me) distiller. I'd highly recommend any of their spirits if you can get your hands on them. Their "American Small Batch Gin" is my favorite, but their rye whiskey is also quite nice.

dllthomas7• 12 years ago

I remember Leopold from when they were out in A2. Good times.

TwiztidK• 12 years ago

I had a feeling this was going on after looking into starting a liquor company with some friends. There are several large manufacturers producing all types of alcohol (whiskey, gin, vodka, etc.) and selling in bulk to bottlers. This is likely how some of the lower end alcohol producers operate, but I'm sure there are plenty who use fancier packaging to upsell their product.

fl0wenol2• 12 years ago

A good half of your vodka brands are just repackaging ADM or the local equivalent farm waste ethanol with water local to the bottling location (and maybe extra distillation or filtering passes if you're lucky).

It's the bottled water business model, but swankier.

Even Hangar One, a favorite of mine, is at least half neutral grain spirit from industrial farms. Thankfully they re-distill it with pot-distilled grape vodka, which rounds it out (no rubbing alcohol flavor).

tptacek13• 12 years ago

Dave Arnold on Cooking Issues tells a story from when he ran the tech program at the French Culinary about buying pure potable lab ethanol and diluting it down himself for "perfect" vodka at a tiny fraction of the price.

Vodka sucks, is the moral of that story.

js2• 12 years ago

Here's a family tree of American Whiskeys:

http://www.gq.com/life/food/201311/bourbon-whiskey-family-tr...

If you're interested in American Whiskey production, I recommend the book from whicn the article above is excerpted.

tptacek13• 12 years ago

"Status" whiskey drinkers are often surprised at how many of their favorite brands roll up to giant beverage conglomerates. The best whiskeys in the world almost to a one are traceable to giant corporations.

s_husso• 12 years ago

Thank you for that link! Here in Finland we only got tiny selection of American Whiskey and that link pointed out that I still have so many American Whiskey left to experience :) And seeing as the Buffalo Trace is one of my favourite Whisky I think I'm not going to be disappointed when I have the chance to try out one of the more "rarer" ones. Only if our local stores had more American Whiskey selection (Eagle Rare 10yo is "rarest" pre-order bottle for 60$)..

teuobk• 12 years ago

Whiskey is not alone in this. A good chunk of American vodka is apparently actually made from ethanol purchased from Archer Daniels Midland (ADM), the same company that distills ethanol for use as a motor fuel.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-18360315

Crito• 12 years ago

Seems fine with me; if the distillation is done well, then ethanol is ethanol.

The important part of vodka is what water they are adding to that ethanol. It's not "just water" in that case, though it may very well be tap water (which is fine if they have good tap water).

JasonCEC8• 12 years ago

Production practice of Vodka matters less, because the point of vodka is "a flavorless spirit". If you're dealing with flavor vodka, your no longer dealing with a craft/artisan spirit anyway.

Zigurd• 12 years ago

Someone should go the other way in marketing and sell an ADM-labelled vodka, with the tag line: "If it's good for driving, it's good for drinking!"

fl0wenol2• 12 years ago

I've been looking and hoping someone takes up this mantle. A "vodka" in a plastic or metla motor oil-like bottle, dressed up to look like a fuel additive and labeled NGS or something vaguely technical. Made straight from ADM (or an equivalent) farm waste and distilled an extra time or two to remove the nastier volatiles.

Priced cheap, maybe at 80 and 160 proof options (normal and hi-test). Filtered tap water added at the bottling plant, and proud of it!

Something like that; I'd sure as heck buy it.

Theodores• 12 years ago

I doubt that the alcohol out of the big factory with the big industrial process has anything wrong with it whereas I am not sure I really would want to drink that 'prohibition era' recipe stuff made in small batches. Who knows what polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, methanol and whatever other hangover inducing chemicals get made by the 'twee' process alluded too?

Sounds to me that these faux whiskeys are a great product with a plausible legend (that beats a white label saying industrial alcohol) and, scratch beneath the surface, but isn't fake really part of what America is?

jamessun2• 12 years ago

Is this all that different than what you see in canned vegetables or cereal -- Del Monte/Kellogg's vs. generic/supermarket brands?

ceejayoz2• 12 years ago

Are you buying "artisan, small-batch" canned veggies that purport to be locally produced?

Spooky23• 12 years ago

I think he meant that the "brand" costs more, with no added value.

A better example is hotdog rolls. The supermarket brand is usually 20% less and literally sits next to the "name" brand in your area. The Bimbo/Weston/Freihoffers/etc hotdog rolls are literally the same thing, deliveried by the same guy and baked in the same place!

See: http://www.bimbobakeriesusa.com/our_brands/

Although, companies like Vlassic are now shipping pickled vegetables in jars that resemble mason jars to look like the more artisanal products.

jamessun2• 12 years ago

From the Green Giant website, "Premium Le Sueur® brand vegetables come from the birthplace of the Green Giant® brand—Le Sueur, Minnesota—where they’re grown in the rich, fertile soil of the Minnesota River Valley."

So, is Green Giant doing the same thing if the same farmer/field/canning facility supplies peas to generic/supermarket brands?

JasonCEC8• 12 years ago

My company[1] works in this space, building tools for artisan brewers, distillers, and coffee roasters. I know this market quite well!

This is a known practice, and one that a lot of people are unhappy about. We suspect that the TTB will be cracking down quite harshly on this in the near future; forcing a named distiller statement on the label.

That said... not all of the whiskey, rye, or bourbon that MGP produces is bad - some of its aged production is quite good, and companies like Angels Envy which further age it (basically double oak or quarter casking) can produce a unique and high quality product.

My problem with this is from the deception; imagine if it turned out that Dogfish Head and Stone brewing were actually buying their beer from MillerCoors! This is an unfair practice that puts actual craft distillers (some of my clients!) at a huge disadvantage. A named distillery requirement would go a long way to correcting this.

[1] www.Gastrograph.com

batbomb2• 12 years ago

I posted almost this same exact comment on my friends facebook post for this article, even mentioning Angel's Envy. This happens in Wine and coffee too. The reality is many "distillers" are curators and finishers, and sometimes battlers (sometimes not, whoever bottles or makes the Templeton Rye-like bottle must bottle half of the craft market). In wine, this smaller places will buy grapes or wines from the larger vineyards, and often make blends as well. For coffee, most businesses in the Bay Area hit up Royal Coffee in Oakland for their green coffee. Definitely everybody from Peet's and Starbucks to Blue Bottle and Philz have used them, according to my girlfriends father who has used them for 25 years. or tea leaves. even then, a lot of people hit up roasters to supply them roasts or blends.

So, the modern beverage industry is largely an industry based on curation, blends, and added value. And that's fine. I'm not so sure why people care so much, but it must be because people have this romantic view that their beverages should live up to some farm-to-table ideal.

socialist_coder• 12 years ago

> I'm not so sure why people care so much, but it must be because people have this romantic view that their beverages should live up to some farm-to-table ideal.

People care because the bottles are straight up dishonest.

JasonCEC8• 12 years ago

I'm not sure how much I agree; wine and coffee work quite differently than distilled spirits.

In wine, you have never needed to own the vineyards to be a vintner - as far back as medieval Europe, we had merchants purchasing grapes from various regions and blending their own house wines. There is still skill in matching various grapes, yeast, water, and oak - much more so than simply bottling someone else's spirit.

It is similar in coffee; individual farmers tend to the crops and produce the green coffee (sometimes a commodity, sometimes a specialty product). Roasters purchase the green coffee from a middleman who takes care of sourcing, shipping, and storage. Often this is done after a sample has been sent and roasted and the price has been negotiated. The roaster is then responsible for the majority of the final flavor profile of the bean. His (or her) level of roast, airflow, timing, etc, will determine how the coffee should be brewed, and what notes will be present and what will be absent.

So again, it's a little different in coffee than spirits... the grapes and green coffee beans are closer to the raw grain used in making whiskey and rye, than to the finished spirit. There is no deception in selling wine made by another vineyards grapes or coffee purchased through a middleman.

As a side note, all of the largest artisan coffee producers (ie Stumptown and Blue Bottle) have started Direct Trade relationships with coffee farms, and pay a price premium to the farmer to increase the quality on the farm side - investment like this has yet to happen in the distilling industry.

arh68• 12 years ago

It seems like the labeling restrictions are what matter here. I can buy a wine from France and see it was grown and bottled on the estate. Or I can see it was bottled by a negociant/middleman. I really have no strong preference either way, as long as they're labeled correctly. (Louis Jadot, anyone?)

This bourbon thing, though, I guess Americans don't care what's printed on the label. Hell, it was France that gave Andre flak for their "California Champagne". (Champagne comes from France, nowhere else) Anything goes here, I guess. Bourbon should be labeled similarly: either it's distilled, aged & bottled on the estate or it's bottled by a reseller. It's rather funny to think about champagne now, because I think "bourbon" is an American trademark like "champagne" is a French one. Naming things, harder than it seems.

rayiner• 12 years ago

So, the modern beverage industry is largely an industry based on curation, blends, and added value. And that's fine. I'm not so sure why people care so much, but it must be because people have this romantic view that their beverages should live up to some farm-to-table ideal.

You don't get to second-guess or rationalize peoples' reasons for buying your products. You can't lie to people and then tell them they shouldn't care you lied to them.

My wife loves Templeton Rye, both because of the taste and because she grew up in a small town in Iowa. Knowing it's made by MGP doesn't change the taste, but knowing its made in Indiana would sure as hell leave a sour taste in her mouth!

From the article:

“I have purchased hundreds of barrels of rye and bourbon from them,” John Bernasconi admits when asked about the Indiana factory. A principal in the New Mexico company, Bernasconi says that purchasing whiskey from MGP and bottling it is “a means to develop a brand and help fund the next step” of actually distilling a unique product.

Said like the contemptible opportunistic scab he obviously is.

manachar• 12 years ago

My problem with this is from the deception; imagine if it turned out that Dogfish Head and Stone brewing were actually buying their beer from MillerCoors!

Kona Brewing has the vast majority of their beer brewed in facilities on the mainland. Many people buy the beer thinking it's a brewed in Hawaii beer, but realistically it's just brewed on the mainland according to Kona's specs.

With consolidation in the craft beer industry I'd only expect more of this sort of truthiness in the future.

coryking• 12 years ago

I guess I'm okay with this. It seems kind of silly to ship a liquid across half an ocean to the mainland...

Now if I were to discover that the Kona I purchased while in Hawaii was actually brewed on the mainland I'd feel a little miffed...

tptacek13• 12 years ago

What consolidation are you referring to? From what I can see in Chicago, the trend is in the other direction.

JasonCEC8• 12 years ago

Consolidation is a ways off. The large beer producers have acquired a few craft producers in the last few years, but the artisan beverage market will continue to grow in both number of firms and amount of production.

I think it will be at least another 10 years until we start seeing large craft brewers purchasing smaller craft brewers. This has already happened in coffee with Blue Bottle (venture backed) purchasing Tonx Coffee and Handsome Roasters. Artisan Coffee has had ~10 years of growth on Craft Beer.

dllthomas7• 12 years ago

I don't condone the mislabeling, where that's occurring, but I'm actually somewhat sympathetic to the outsourcing of the actual distillation process. It's basically chemistry, well suited to industrial process control, and heavily regulated for tax reasons. It sounds like MGP is typically doing quite a bit more than that, though.

dfxm122• 12 years ago

It's hard to figure out where your American whiskey is coming from. There are a handful of bottles I like, and strangely enough, they all happen to be "brands" managed by a company called Kentucky Bourbon Distillers[0] who only recently got into distilling their own stuff.

On the one hand, if you find a product you like, who cares about the story behind it?

On the other hand, when some brands are charging an arm and a leg (like Pappy Van Winkle) as other, less expensive, brands made by the same people with the same equipment (like Buffalo Trace), then it might be worth it see what the difference is between the "high end" and "lower end" brands.

I did a blind taste test and found I liked the mid range whiskey the best.

0 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kentucky_Bourbon_Distillers

JasonCEC8• 12 years ago

Side-by-side comparisons are often misleading in hedonic sensory evaluation. Even trained individuals have a tendency to select the sweeter and stronger flavored (intense) product.

Bitter and woody notes are important balances in higher quality bourbons, but are often perceived as negatives when doing comparative evaluation.

This is likely from your description, as the higher end bourbons tend to be wheated and lighter, but with a more prominent woody body from their longer barrel ageing.

mynewwork• 12 years ago

Adding to JasonCEC's comment, a semi-famous example of this phenomenon appeared in the blind taste-test challenge Pepsi marketed vs Coke.

Pepsi, being slightly sweeter, was preferred when participants took a single small sip for a taste test. However, when drinking an entire can, people were more likely to prefer the less-sweet Coke.

flyinghamster2• 12 years ago

A related issue is that there are still stocks of aged whiskey from distilleries that have closed long ago - and they get sold to independent bottlers and existing distillers alike.

kasey_junk5• 12 years ago

And there are labels that have been revised but don't have any connection to their previous recipe, blend or age.

flyinghamster2• 12 years ago

MGP has been an open secret in the whiskey business for a while now - but it's good that the story is finally getting some press. I've had a couple of known MGP ryes (Bulleit and Dickel) and they're good - but they're not craft products. I think a distiller statement would go a long way to ending the deception.

I'm surprised MGP hasn't created its own brands or bought some existing ones, since their rye is a good product in its own right. They're missing an opportunity, though maybe they feel it's too much trouble to go into the retail side.

dllthomas7• 12 years ago

"I'm surprised MGP hasn't created its own brands or bought some existing ones, since their rye is a good product in its own right. They're missing an opportunity, though maybe they feel it's too much trouble to go into the retail side."

I wonder whether their existing contracts prohibit that.

jessaustin3• 12 years ago

They're missing an opportunity...

During the gold rush, sell picks and shovels. Lots of tech companies have the same model. With that model, MGP have production personnel and a few account managers. They don't have to pay for any marketing themselves, while they benefit from the full range of creative output of the American liquor industry. Some people want to buy whiskey that was made in New Mexico by hipsters like "Simeon Turley" and "Thomas Tate Tobin", while others want to buy whiskey made in Iowa by "small townsfolk".

sitkack2• 12 years ago

I'd buy whiskey made by robots in the old Detroit Cadillac plant. Artisanal Crafted Robots programmed in core.logic.

the_mitsuhiko• 12 years ago

I'm surprised MGP hasn't created its own brands or bought some existing ones, since their rye is a good product in its own right. They're missing an opportunity, though maybe they feel it's too much trouble to go into the retail side.

(Fortunate?) Mismanagement. They wanted to make their own brand but contracted out all their old stock so the only thing they could sell now is very young ones unless one of the existing customers jumps ship.

jonnathanson• 12 years ago

Why should they? They are a platform. Sure, they might be able to secure shelf space, market their own wares, make a slightly higher margin, etc., but these activities would compete head to head with all the "craft" distillers MGP supplies. They'd also be entering a market that, from the looks of things, is going to reach saturation pretty soon (if it hasn't already). There are only so many spirits that stores can shelve, and so many that consumers can keep track of (or drink). (Frankly, I'm amazed that threshold hasn't been crossed yet. Sure, the craft beer market seems to support a gazillion beer labels. But consumers can drink beer by the gallon and keep replenishing every week. I doubt they do the same with expensive bottles of distilled spirits.)

By all accounts, MGP is doing just fine and dandy being a B2B seller, and supplying the current craft-distillery boom. They can do that with very little supply-chain risk and expense.

Their current position only becomes challenging if one or both of the following happen: 1) More industrial, B2B distillers enter the market, or more big-batch distillers devote resources to supplying the craft market; 2) the craft market goes bust, forcing a major demand shock onto MGP's supply. If #2 materializes, then MGP can sit on the excess inventory, and eventually bottle it as premium liquor.

fiatmoney• 12 years ago

Whisky is a fundamentally industrial product; fetishizing the "small batch artisinal" etc aspects ignores all the hard work that goes into making a replicable product, especially over the course of a decade-plus production cycle.

Beer has a similar problem; "small batch artisinal" tends to result in inconsistent product, so the easiest thing to do is to cover up inconsistencies with a lot of malt and hops. It's actually significantly harder to make a nice light pilsner than it is to make a heavyweight IPA.

If you want a "craft" product, you should really make it yourself.

swah• 12 years ago

Hey, brazilian feeling good here! Because we sucessfully make huge amounts of pilsen beer, in a very consistent way. Yes, the thing always tastes like water and cat piss :)

JasonCEC8• 12 years ago

Some of that is true; but there are historical antecedents that explain the use of hops and malts...

My company[1] builds quality control tools for artisan beverage producers; we know that craft production is a batch process relying on agricultural grains with inherent variation.

That doesn't mean it shouldn't be produced.

Craft production is undoubtedly higher quality than any continuous production - it just takes more skill (or software tools..) to do correctly and consistently.

Furthermore, the use of certain ingredients to reduce noticeable inconsistencies came at a time before process control was a known science. For example, hops were originally added to beer being shipped from England to India (hence the name India Pale Ale or IPA). Now, that practice didn't survive because of quality control - it has survived because people like the taste of IPAs and there is demand in the market for that flavor profile.

Consumers don't think of skill of production when rating beers or whiskeys; they judge only the resulting flavor profile and are influenced by contextual clues such as age statements or 'hand made batch numbered artisan spirit' promises.

dllthomas7• 12 years ago

"Craft production is undoubtedly higher quality than any continuous production - it just takes more skill (or software tools..) to do correctly and consistently."

Craft production peaks at a higher quality than any continuous production, I think is what you're trying to say? Because obviously, those who fail to do it correctly or consistently are still engaged in "craft production".

protonfish2• 12 years ago

Only if you see inconsistency as bad (if you do, then McDonald's makes the best hamburgers.) Inconsistency is the key selling point of small batches.

Agreed, IPA is a no-brainer beer without subtlety. If you put enough hops in sewer water it'll taste like an IPA but that doesn't mean making a pilsner is rocket surgery.

And as long as I am ranting on IPA, I can't wait for the current craze for them to be over. A few years ago when I would ask the waitress what beers they have on tap she'd rattle off 8 wheat beers. (Seriously, one wheat beer in the summer is plenty and Bell's Oberon is a pleasantly inconsistent choice.) Now it's half a dozen IPAs. I have a suggestion to the bars and brewers for the next beer fad: an old world artisinal classic - lager.

jessaustin3• 12 years ago

Is lager really hard to find?

maxerickson• 12 years ago

Oberon has been more consistent (and I guess not as great) since they expanded production a couple of years ago.

It's still really good though.

antihero• 12 years ago

Over here in the UK everywhere is doing IPAs at the moment. It's such a pain. I think it's because the hoppiness masks the fact that they don't clean their lines as much as they should.

I miss the days of a good mild or bitter with porters and stouts thrown in the mix.

evandev• 12 years ago

Covering a beer up with a lot of hops and malts isn't so much to hide the off-flavors. Rather, some producers like to weave together complex malts and hops into a balanced product.

And the off-flavors aren't a by-product of the size of the producer. I work in the industry doing quality control at the same company[1] as another commenter, and we see inconsistencies with producers the size of a local brewpub to large producers that sell to 7+ states.

Using technology can help reduce inconsistencies, but the end goal it to never let the consumer taste a bad batch. It is cheaper to dump a bad batch than to ship it, as this may result in loss of customers.

Bigger producers know this and will more readily dump a bad batch than a smaller producer.

Lastly, I have seen a producer that ships to 3 states have a manual brewing system, while a small neighborhood brewpub that just started distributing uses a fully automated system.

[1] www.gastrograph.com

GauntletWizard• 12 years ago

The whiskey club I belong to (Single Cask Nation) just bottled a cask of their stuff. Specifically, what's called an American Light Whiskey; Distilled almost to the point of vodka before being casked. Surprisingly delicious; unsurprisingly interesting, as its usually used as an ingredient in a blend, never bottled on its own.

k2enemy• 12 years ago

I was hoping that the article would tell which of the re-branded ryes from MGP is the best value. If a bunch of "distilleries" are just packaging up the same stuff, which is the cheapest?

dfxm122• 12 years ago

It's not the same (tasting) stuff in each bottle; everyone adds their little touch to it - a different mash bill, different wood for aging, different types of woods, different blends, etc.

There is some labor & R&D here that can't strictly be - ahem - distilled to dollars and cents.

tptacek13• 12 years ago

I'm not sure MGP resellers control the mash bill; rather, MGP sells a variety of different whiskeys, so they presumably get to pick from a menu.

The aging process however makes a huge difference; it accounts for probably most of the flavor of the whiskey. So there's definitely potential for bottlers to add value. Unfortunately, most of them probably don't, because the things that add value --- sourcing quality large barrels instead of small casks, aging carefully for a long time --- add cost and delay time to market.

rlvesco7• 12 years ago

'Bernasconi says that purchasing whiskey from MGP and bottling it is “a means to develop a brand and help fund the next step” of actually distilling a unique product.'

This sounds similar to how Reddit grew. It created a bunch of fake accounts until it didn't need to no more. Though there has been little outcry about that practice around here.

motherboard.vice.com/read/how-reddit-got-huge-tons-of-fake-accounts--2

tomblomfield• 12 years ago

If you're in NYC, check out King's County distillery, just over the manhattan bridge in Brooklyn.

The proprietor gives tours every Saturday. It's a really interesting little place

bsharitt• 12 years ago

I've know that Bullit Rye comes from and Indiana factory for some time now, but I still drinking because it's good and not too pricey. As long as they don't try to charge a "craft" price for it, I don't mind as long as the end product is good.

kasey_junk5• 12 years ago

Well given that it's distillery location is on the label I'm a little confused about what the story is.

Bud• 12 years ago

Let's be honest: did anyone actually think that a brand like Bulleit, which is available by the hundreds of gallons at every Costco and liquor store around, was a "craft" brand in the way that's commonly understood? Is this news a shock to anyone who's paying attention?

I don't buy Bulleit expecting hand-crafted small-batch stuff; I buy it because it's a good product that's worth the price.

DigitalJack• 12 years ago

I like Bulleit Rye, but now that I know it's rebranded MGP, I'm now more interested in pricing of any other MGP rye.

tptacek13• 12 years ago

Bulleit rye, like most American rye, is an MGP product. But Bulleit bourbon is Four Roses spirit, and Four Roses is no slouch.

OrwellianChild2• 12 years ago

Do you happen to know whether Bulleit Bourbon is the Four Roses basic or Small Batch? Would love to cross-shop on price...

yock2• 12 years ago

I wonder if this is the market reacting to a difficult regulatory environment. When you consider the laws pertaining to production, distribution, and sales of spirits, It seems like it would be darn near impossible to bootstrap such a business without significant outside investment. And who would invest in a company that has no intention to take a single dollar of revenue for years to come?

tptacek13• 12 years ago

You might think that, but practically the entire Scotch whiskey industry also rolls up into Diageo, Bacardi, and Pernod, and it might be hard to argue that the regulatory environment in Scotland disfavors distilleries.

yock2• 12 years ago

I think it disfavors new distilleries.

mturmon2• 12 years ago

Some sample Pernod-Ricard Scotch brands:

Aberlour, Chivas, Glenlivet, Longmorn, Royal Salute (Chivas premium), Scapa, Ballantines, Laphroaig, Teachers.

randyrand4• 12 years ago

Ignorance is bliss.

jccalhoun• 12 years ago

I knew this would be about Lawrenceburg. Back in the day Lawrenceburg and Aurora (twin towns that basically run together) used to stink terribly from the old Seagrams factory.

kasey_junk5• 12 years ago

I am much less worried about contract distilling at MGP than I am about the recent trend of obscuring the age statement on previously well aged products. Both VOB and Ancient Ancient Age have recently removed their age statements. In the case of VOB those cheeky bastards left the big "6" on the bottle label, but removed the words "aged" and "years". Pretty skeezy bait and switch.

We can all just hope that whiskey gets less popular and the prices come back down to sane levels.

‘Craft’ Whiskey Is Probably From a Factory Distillery in Indiana

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