TypeScript: New Compiler and Moving to GitHub

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/typescript/archive/2014/07/21/new-compiler-and-moving-to-github.aspx

by hekul • 12 years ago

212 79 12 years ago

blogs.msdn.com

untog2• 12 years ago

The move to Github is interesting. I'm wondering if this is harbinger of Codeplex's doom very soon.

lbotos• 12 years ago

The flip-side to that could be trying to bring the food to the fish so to speak. Github users are in their (perceived) target market.

kyriakos2• 12 years ago

This is part of the new face of Microsoft. They realised that they are losing their followers in the developer community by sticking to their old ways. They've been 'listening' to the public opinion a lot lately.

BigChiefSmokem• 12 years ago

I just got off the phone with a recruiter who offered me a chance at a Ruby job based on my ASP.NET experience because, quote "they have a lot of old C# guys there and they're willing to train anyone willing to cross over".

This means I can make a lateral (stack) move without having to revert back to "junior" status. Hey, I love me some C# and .NET but the offers from the open-source community are just too tempting.

I booked an interview.

shurcooL• 12 years ago

Yeah, this is awesome and it's making me jealous. I'm still dreaming of a world where one day Google will announce that golang source code is moving to git and GitHub.

felixrieseberg2• 12 years ago

Truth be told, CodePlex is fairly popular in the .NET world. TypeScript simply is a JavaScript project, plays well with Node, NPM and Jake - I think it makes sense for it to be on GitHub. It's not the first MSFT source base hosted on GitHub, probably won't be the last. Heck, I work at MSFT and keep all my open source code on GitHub.

I wouldn't read too much into that though - huge company, a bunch of projects and different audiences. CodePlex has an audience - there's a bunch of cool projects on there, too.

yellowapple• 12 years ago

It's not the first MSFT source base hosted on GitHub

It is, however, the only repo under the "Microsoft" GitHub user AFAICT (https://github.com/Microsoft).

kyriakos2• 12 years ago

This is great news. Typescript compiler's slowness negatively affected my work flow. Hopefully 5x is fast enough.

ashcairo• 12 years ago

I haven't used Typescript yet, but I'm very keen on it. How fast is the compiler currently for you? (eg. seconds or minutes?, and how big is your codebase? (eg. 10k or 100k?)

cogware3• 12 years ago

On a 7kloc codebase it was around 3 seconds before the new compiler, seems to be about 1 second after.

elpool2• 12 years ago

I have a Typescript project with over 200k loc and over 200 ts files. The current compiler takes a while to build the whole project, but still under 10 seconds. However, you can also set it up to compile when you save a single ts file, which is much faster. So in practice its not any slower than what I was doing with Javascript, which was hit ctrl-S to save my changes then quickly hit refresh in Chrome to test and debug.

mkozlows• 12 years ago

The negative/cynical take: They're rearranging their internal deck chairs and spending time and effort on making their code pretty, rather than changing TypeScript (maligned, little-used, and little-loved) to be more relevant somehow.

I have no doubt that the slowness is a major complaint they get from TypeScript users, but at their current level of success/failure, they probably should be listening more to TypeScript non-users than users.

cpeterso2• 12 years ago

A project having enough time to schedule big rewrites (instead of new features) is often a bad sign.

mkehrt• 12 years ago

I'm not sure that makes sense for typescript. It's aiming to be a very conservative extension of JS. Adding new features moves away from that goal.

nimish• 12 years ago

TypeScript is heavily used inside Microsoft. The Azure preview portal is mostly typescript.

I suspect they had this in the works for a while and couldn't make build.

nawitus2• 12 years ago

Good news. Compiler performance is pretty horrible at scale.

I hope that they implement in-memory compilation, so that the compiler can work properly with Gulp (which would also increase build times). I also hope that they'll support automatic generation of ambient external declaration files. TypeScript doesn't work well with npm modules just yet because of that.

benjaminjackman• 12 years ago

The really slow compiler performance was quite surprising. I switched back to coffeescript (then eventually switched to ScalaJs where they are much faster) because they were so long.

frowaway0014• 12 years ago

Having tried using JavaScript and TypeScript, I settled with Scala.js, too.

Stuff just worked better on all accounts: Language, tooling, fast compilation, good error messages, not having to touch JavaScript-related mess, etc.

SanderMak• 12 years ago

About TypeScript+Gulp: I was using gulp-tsc, but switched to gulp-type (https://www.npmjs.org/package/gulp-type). It offers incremental compilation and you can disable chasing through all references in the sourcefiles (since with Gulp you already provide all sources in the stream). This sped up our re-compilation times three-fold.

Arnavion4• 12 years ago

I hope that they implement in-memory compilation, so that the compiler can work properly with Gulp

In-memory compilation already exists. I wrote a Gulp wrapper for TS for my own project [0] that supports both normal compilation and incremental compilation (i.e., watch functionality).

The real issue with TS is that it doesn't export a programmable compiler API by default, necessitating either a process.exec to the shell script or adding an export statement using the vm module. I gather that was a low priority for the devs because they wanted to get the compiler API in shape first.

[0] https://github.com/Arnavion/libjass/blob/master/gulplib/type...

nawitus2• 12 years ago

In-memory compilation already exists.

Well, it seems that it requires quite a lot of code. Perhaps you should publish the gulp wrapper as a Gulp plugin.

By the way, does your Gulp wrapper load files from the disk, or are the files given to it as in-memory streams? That's what I mean by "in-memory compilation".

lennel• 12 years ago

The closure compiler is also pretty slow, a way around it is to keep a warm jvm and compile that way (70% performance increase over time). I assume a similar strategy is not possible for typescript, which is a pity.

Typescript seems pretty cool, lack of dead code analysis and the inability to write my own compiler passes (I have looked for this, but it does not seem to be an option - would love to stand corrected) puts me off it.

phase_9• 12 years ago

Slightly off topic, but can anyone share a link to a large, well designed (open-source) codebase written in TypeScript? Github incorrectly/mistakenly tags C projects at TypeScript thanks to the `.ts` files present (thanks for picking a unique TLA Microsoft ;)

[0] https://github.com/trending?l=typescript

cpeterso2• 12 years ago

Mozilla's Shumway replacement for Flash uses TypeScript. Shumway's TypeScript translates ActionScript to JS. The Shumway team chose TypeScript for a few reasons. TypeScript's syntax is pretty close to ActionScript's, which simplifies the mapping from ActionScript to Shumway's implementation of Adobe's Flash APIs. Using three languages (AS, JS, and TS) also helps enforce modularity between the content (AS), compiler, runtime, and JITted (JS) code.

https://github.com/mozilla/shumway/

cogware3• 12 years ago

Check out Plottable (https://github.com/palantir/plottable/). It's an open source library for data viz / charting, written as a layer on D3, and it's developed in Typescript. They have a mostly incomplete Github page here (http://palantir.github.io/plottable/) with a tutorial (http://palantir.github.io/plottable/tutorials/)

tlarkworthy• 12 years ago

This beta product for a firebase security compiler is written in typescript (by me) for node.js

https://github.com/firebase/blaze_compiler

Typescript has been a joy to develop in. The codebase is a mix of typescript and plain JS for some of the parsing.

There are a few interesting architectures patterns like a work around for no subclassing of Error by wrapping an error with a backwards chained decorator

https://github.com/firebase/blaze_compiler/blob/master/src/e...

(thanks to mindplay for that idea here https://typescript.codeplex.com/discussions/465345)

That product is still in it's infancy so gradually being refactored towards full modularisation, so its still a work in progress.

FYI: I use pycharm with the node.js plugin, and typescript compiles in the background without intervention, and I can step debug the program, and the line at the top off all the files transparent changes the stack traces back into TS.

judah• 12 years ago

I built RavenDB's tooling [0] in TypeScript.

I also just finished building this app [1] for homeless youth in Minnesota using TypeScript and Angular.

[0] https://github.com/JudahGabriel/ravendb/tree/master/Raven.St...

[1] http://ysnmn.org

jvilk• 12 years ago

I like to think that my BrowserFS [0] codebase is a relatively well-designed TypeScript codebase, but I'm a bit biased. Not sure what you view as 'large', though.

[0] https://github.com/jvilk/BrowserFS

cogware3• 12 years ago

I'm excited by this. I think that moving to Github will help the image problem Typescript has and make it a little more accessible, and it's actually a very useful + powerful technology. Compiler errors on refactors are great :)

mixonic2• 12 years ago

And while they move, they are filing issue bankruptcy.

574 open issues exist for TypeScript on Codeplex. https://typescript.codeplex.com/workitem/list/basic

"Please note: since we’re moving to a new issue tracker and a new codebase, we are not copying all issues over. If you have issues in the current CodePlex issue tracker, please try them against the new codebase and file them in the GitHub issue tracker if they still repro."

Github is back up to 117.

Managing an open source community is something that the TypeScript leadership still have yet to learn. They weren't concerned about coordinating with TC39 on module syntax (they shipped 1.0 with an arbitrary snapshot), they were never very interested in accepting code, and they don't value the time users take to document bugs and edge cases.

tl;dr the move to Github is lipstick on a pig. It is a distraction from the real changes they must make on order to collaborate well with others.

skybrian• 12 years ago

Many high-profile open source projects have far more bug reports than they know what to do with. Declaring issue bankruptcy and asking people to re-test with a new version is annoying from a customer service point of view, but looked at another way, it's a scalable way for the community to help. Cut and paste (or better yet, summarize the conversation) isn't so hard if it's still a real issue.

frowaway0014• 12 years ago

Or ... TypeScript developers could just have added test cases to their test suite and figure out automatically whether the new implementation fixed things or caused regressions.

aikah• 12 years ago

(they shipped 1.0 with an arbitrary snapshot)

They will have no choice but to change the Typescript module system,or it will stop being compatible for Ecmascript. Right now afaik Typescript doesnt support generators either.

It's a great language but the way they handled module in Typescript was a mistake.

frowaway0014• 12 years ago

Is there still no support for let and const? I think that's the most embarrassing thing about TypeScript.

kevingadd• 12 years ago

The only alternative they really had would be to not align with ES6/ES7 at all. The 6/7 specs are still in total flux and there are still intricate arguments/discussions on the spec list on a regular basis about the details of modules, module loaders, imports...

Arnavion4• 12 years ago

574 open issues exist for TypeScript on Codeplex. https://typescript.codeplex.com/workitem/list/basic

A lot are duplicates. There are two or three issues for type unions, atleast two issues for ABCs, and so on. Also a some of the issues are for VS integration.

Github is back up to 117.

I only glanced at the GH issues but it seems they're actually internal issues discovered by the devs themselves, not from the Codeplex tracker.

MichaelGG2• 12 years ago

Especially compared to the F# compiler, which is actively accepting pull requests and even indicating which issues they'd like people to take up.

greggman• 12 years ago

all of that seems true for most repos on github. At least in my experience. I've spent the last 2 months learning node, checking out npm modules, finding bugs, seeing the projects abandoned, lots of issue filed, pull requests ignored, etc.. Maybe I've just been unlucky but this hardly seems like an MS specific thing?

Pacabel2• 12 years ago

I think this is partially due to the informality that many GitHub users tend to have with respect to managing their projects.

It's rare to see a GitHub-hosted project that offers proper releases, proper planning for those releases, proper documentation, and the organization and project management efforts that enable such things.

The lack of such basic project management structure leads to projects that see very erratic development, or outright abandonment. Many GitHub-hosted projects are barely more than a hobby, rather than an ongoing concern. Their code may be somewhat usable, but it's rarely comparable to what we see from more organized projects.

lumpypua• 12 years ago

Easy packaging and distribution is awesome and it's why node's ecosystem has exploded, but tools to filter that down are equally important.

A great example of this is djangopackages.com. Looking at thumbnailing packages[2] even though there are a dozen packages, only three are popular. And taking a glance at the commit sparklines only two are under active development. So I know to start with them.

[2] https://www.djangopackages.com/grids/g/thumbnails/

coldtea2• 12 years ago

Managing an open source community is something that the TypeScript leadership still have yet to learn.

It's not like Gnome/GTK and KDE managed such issues so much better...

nailer4• 12 years ago

Does TC39 interact with the community on module syntax? AFAK everyone in node land has no intention of using ES6 modules.

mixonic2• 12 years ago

If people in "node land" want to keep using JavaScript they will eventually be using ES6 modules. Or they will fork the language. I would not place money on the Node team wanting to fork JavaScript.

shadowmint• 12 years ago

I know there's this 'dont host on github' ethic from some people, but it's undisputable that it lowers the barrier to entry for contributions.

I cant speak for anyone else but on github I will now almost always submit a pull request for a fix instead of filing bugs.

Great move for typescript~

rgawdzik• 12 years ago

Seeing Microsoft on Github feels like some weird parallel universe.

waitingkuo• 12 years ago

Moving to GitHub!!?? As a open source project, at least it's on the right track now!

Kiro• 12 years ago

How is TypeScript compiled? I only find .ts files in the repo.

sanxiyn• 12 years ago

TypeScript is bootstrapped. Precompiled version of TypeScript compiler is at bin/tc.js.

doczoidberg• 12 years ago

Great to see typescript evolving. It's a nice approach developing software for browsers. Now we need tools bringing the bits (angular, breezejs, typescript etc) together.

tkubacki2• 12 years ago

I still think - Dart is a better response to JS issues:

a) good SDK and package system (pub.dartlang.org)

b) clean break from JS (what if future JS will be incompatible with current TS ?)

c) perf - realted to b) you can't eg. add property on the fly accidently and will not get perf penalty for this

d) proper IDE for ALL mainstream OSes (vs. best IDE on Windows and substandard on OSX/Linux => various plugins)

nailer4• 12 years ago

Never heard anyone say Dart's package system is better than NPM.

Latency makes Eclipse unusable on every machine I've tried, including a current Haswell MBA with 8GB RAM and a half terabyte SSD.

Also: how many web developers do you know that use Eclipse?

tkubacki2• 12 years ago

Never heard anyone say Dart's package system is better than NPM

neither do I - just say Dart has good dedicated (npm is for JS AFAIK) package system

Latency makes Eclipse unusable on every machine I've tried

It's not as good as lets say IntelliJ (best IDE I've ever seen) but it's "good enough"

Besides - it seems long term goal for Dart team is chromedeveditor https://github.com/dart-lang/chromedeveditor (another point for Dart it's open source) which will be pretty fast when DartVM will come to Chrome

Aardwolf• 12 years ago

In the playground, the following:

class Greeter { greeting: string; constructor(message: string) { this.greeting = message; } greet() { return "Hello, " + this.greeting; } }

Compiled to the following:

var Greeter = (function () { function Greeter(message) { this.greeting = message; } Greeter.prototype.greet = function () { return "Hello, " + this.greeting; }; return Greeter; })();

So I have a question about this: what is the reason why it doesn't become the following instead?

function Greeter(message) { this.greeting = message; } Greeter.prototype.greet = function () { return "Hello, " + this.greeting; };

In other words, why is the extra function put around it? There must be a good reason... Thanks!

coldtea2• 12 years ago

It's a closure, so stuff doesn't escape unless it's explicitly returned.

It doesn't seem to be needed here, but their transpiler could use the same structure for more evolved classes/module too, where it would make sense.

Too• 12 years ago

Check the modules sample, there a module is passed as argument to the self executing function to which the newly created Greeter class is added, without leaking any temporary Greeter variables to the global namespace. I guess it's just designed to generate as similar code as possible for both the module and non-module cases.

TypeScript: New Compiler and Moving to GitHub

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