'Netflix for piracy' Popcorn Time saved by fans

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-25949340

by yitchelle • 12 years ago

34 52 12 years ago

k-mcgrady5• 12 years ago

I can see very little reason for people to use this other than they don't want to pay money for movies.

Netflix is cheap, has a large selection, is available in several countries and its geo-block is easy to bypass with a Chrome plugin meaning you can get full selection from any country. There are also other streaming services in various countries. Not to mention the large number of countries iTunes Movies are available in. Obviously new releases can only be viewed in the cinema but if you really want to see something that's not too big of an ask - or you can wait a couple of months.

There are always people trying to justify piracy and although I disagree with it I can see their frustration at times but movies are incredibly convenient and cheap to access. Is there a 'valid' reason to use something like Popcorn Time?

good_guy• 12 years ago

How about https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7401949 Original post https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7401055

lacion• 12 years ago

you sir have no clue of the world outside the US

k-mcgrady5• 12 years ago

I believe I do as I have never lived in the US :) Nice job jumping to conclusions though.

hadrien01• 12 years ago

I'd like to have Netflix. I'd really like. But the only alternative here costs 30€, doesn't work on every device, and has a very limited selection, even limited in time. I won't try to bypass a geo-block just to watch movies at a normal price. It's not even authorized!

k-mcgrady5• 12 years ago

I understand that bypassing the geo-block isn't allowed but surely it's better that the content producers/creators receive some money form you rather than pirating it?

egil• 12 years ago

If you bypass the geo-block, you don't have a license to play the geo-blocked content either, regardless of your Netflix subscription.

k-mcgrady5• 12 years ago

True but IMO it's still better than piracy. The content creators at least still get paid.

ceronman• 12 years ago

Netflix is not so good. Specially if you're not in the US and you don't speak english. Here in the Netherlands the selection is very limited, you rarely see subtitles in languages other than dutch. You can use a proxy to get US Netflix, but that's illegal and doesn't work with a smart TV.

The Popcorn Time or XBMCTorrent experience is so much better. You get a huge selection of movies and series in high definition, with subtitles and audio in any language at a distance of a click.

I would pay many times what Netflix charges for a legal service like this. So would many other people.

spindritf• 12 years ago

You can use a proxy to get US Netflix, but that's illegal and doesn't work with a smart TV.

This is by no means a good solution, and perhaps still illegal, but it does work. I used to do that for Pandora:

You can run a VPN client on your router connected to a server in the US and add routes for Netflix to go through that connection. That way all devices on your home network should be able to connect to Netflix.

Or some other geo-ip-restricted service. You just need to sniff out their IP blocks.

You set it to reconnect automatically and it's not even that inconvenient. Although you do have to pick networking up as a hobby.

lucian1900• 12 years ago

There are various services that do the proxying for you and you "only" have to change your DNS server. One I've used in the past is unblock-us.

bertil2• 12 years ago

As far as my experience goes (roughly ten years of trying to access sites like Comedy Central’s Daily Show), no geo-blocking solution works for more than a month — up to a couple of weeks now. Hola worked for 10 days for me.

I am happy to pay for Netflix; the selection, partial where I am now, justifies the price. However, if they won’t sell me anything more up to date… well, I won’t buy it.

darklajid• 12 years ago

- don't use Chrome (and won't change that)

- don't own an iOS device (and won't get one)

Netflix doesn't exist here for all I can tell and all alternatives are utterly broken. I haven't even looked at Popcorn Time for now (to avoid 'Ah, you just want to defend your decision' arguments), but there is no way to watch movies or tv series here¹. None.

The best potential option: Buy DVDs or similar media. They usually tend to come with just a bit of sillyness (really? unskippable parts?) and include the original audio most of the time. That means that you wait aeons to get your hand on the content though and you generate garbage. Because .. usually I watch a movie/series once.

1: With my requirements being: Original version (not dubbed), more or less recent (i.e. not gazillion years behind the US, just because) and accessible on my devices (can be streamed to my xmbc setup for example).

probably_wrong2• 12 years ago

Netflix is cheap, has a large selection, is available in several countries and its geo-block is easy to bypass with a Chrome plugin

As I said in a different comment, bypassing the geo-block is against Netflix' TOS, so is not legal either. Ideally you could say "but my money goes to the rights holder eventually, so it's better than nothing", which I think it's ok. However, given that you are still liable for watching the movie illegally, you are literally giving money to the studios and getting nothing in return: you already have the movie for free but you lack the license to watch it, and bypassing the geo-block means you are not getting that.

aw3c2• 12 years ago

'Netflix for piracy' Popcorn Time saved by being free software.

corin_2• 12 years ago

Mark Mulligan, an analyst and co-founder of Midia Consulting, said this should give content creators great cause of concern.
"The next stage of piracy, and one rights holders need to be really worried about, is when the pirates start behaving like the rest of the internet and start making great user experiences."

Couldn't really disagree more, for a long time the user experience has been one of piracy's biggest selling points, second to (or possibly even above) affordability.

caractacus• 12 years ago

A few years ago, the piracy user experience was far and away better than the legitimate user experience. Things then started to change: Netflix, Spotify, BBC iPlayer, etc etc. The legit services are - with three exceptions - now in most cases better and easier and smoother than the piracy alternative. But the three exceptions can be fairly major:

1. Price (well, duh). Netflix is cheap imo, Spotify is cheap, but piracy is still free.

2. Spread of content. Less an issue with Spotify which has just about EVERYTHING but more so with video services. Piracy has any movie, any TV show. Netflix (and other services) only have those they've signed up.

3. Availability. Netflix is great in the US, okay in the UK, tolerable in other places. HBO Go is only available in a few countries. BBC iPlayer only in the UK. It's patchy.

But: the signs are there than when content owners and distributions services can get their act together, legitimate distribution is a better user experience than piracy. That's only been the case for the last year, eighteen months. Mulligan appears to be casting aside many years of history when piracy was the only game in town. Popcorn Time has a great UI and is simple to use, but it's now playing catch-up with paid services when for a decade or more, piracy was streets ahead in ability and usability.

kolinko2• 12 years ago

Well, no Netflix is not tolerable in other places. In Poland there is no reasonsble way to watch legal 1st world movies. Perhaps aside from iTunes which has a limited catalogue, and it's usability is far behind torrents imho. Not to mention the crazy prices.

RyanZAG2• 12 years ago

The fact that I have to use the truly terrible Netflix player to watch Netflix content is why I'd always choose a pirated .mkv version any day of the week. In fact, I've sometimes bought games and movies and then later used the pirated version because of how much better it is.

ojii• 12 years ago

I'd like to disagree. I used to pirate quite heavily back in Switzerland, due to the legal situation, now after having moved to Japan, I do not pirate anymore because I don't want to risk my visa over it (plus we have hulu here which is okayish). I never found the user experience nice at all, and much rather than price, a good legal experience would've made me switch in an instant.

The only reason I ever pirated was/is availability. There was either not watching the content or piracy. One could argue that not watching is a reasonable alternative, but I wanted to see what this whole craze was about for example Doctor Who.

Even with a much worse paying job than what I have, I would pay much more than I currently do for hulu to have access to new movies, TV shows, music... I am fully aware that this might only be true for me.

bertil2• 12 years ago

As a commenter on Hacker News, I have to expect you don’t have the same criteria for ‘user experience’ as most. You probably consider a rich command-line interface as good UX (and you should). People around me tend to be baffled by that idea.

More to the point: What ‘most of the Internet’ is in this instance is Click-on-vignettes; what you probably refer to as user experience is working codecs. Both are, with things lack of obtrusive ads -- let me guess: you use AdBlockPlus, so you never noticed how common web torrent sites are laced with them?

corin_2• 12 years ago

I do agree that there's a technical level needed for pirating content, but its not a high level, I know people who can barely send emails but have learned to torrent TV shows.

Personally, I wasn't talking about thinks like command-line interfaces, and in fact I don't use any adblocker (I make my money buying adverts, don't want to be too hypocritical). For me the key "user experience" pirated content offers is a.) availability - there's no georestrictions, no waiting for content to arrive, etc. and b.) Getting "ownership" of the files - no worries about DRM screwing up, no being locked into specific software, etc.

Sure there are areas in which pirating sucks, such as terrible adverts, misleading torrents, etc. It all comes down to balance. For me, I'll pay for content, but if I've paid for it I'll usually grab it illegally just to make its use easier. That may not make it legal, but at least ethical. For my parents, well my mother is reasonably tech-savvy (for a 60 year old, at least) and she prefers using stuff like Netflix, whereas my dad is completely un-tech savvy, yet has learned to torrent his favourite American TV shows so as not to have to wait for them to arrive in the UK.

D9u• 12 years ago

Screw Netflix!

$7.99 per month and they don't even have the last half of season 5 - Breaking Bad.

Many movies are unavailable to US viewers, as services such as https://hola.org/ have shown us.

Large selection? It seems like every movie I want to watch is "Unavailable for streaming..." or is viewable for an additional $10 fee through their DVD service.

I like Popcorn!

robinduckett• 12 years ago

In the UK we've got the last half of Season 5, sorry :(

andyhmltn2• 12 years ago

Just VPN to the UK and you'll have the last half. Although I'm sure I read about it coming to the US at some point this spring

RVijay007• 12 years ago

Already in the US - came beginning of March.

probably_wrong2• 12 years ago

Or just pirate it - using a VPN is against Netflix' TOS, so since you'll be in the wrong either way, there's no reason for doing it the expensive way.

I like what Netflix does, but as long as region locks exist (not Netflix' fault, of course) there won't be a service that's both good and legal.

ry0ohki• 12 years ago

To be fair, I think if Netflix COULD give you more they would. It's not like they are holding back season 5 and then charging you an extra $3.99 to see it as I'm sure someone like Comcast would do.

RyanZAG2• 12 years ago

It doesn't really matter whose fault it is. The same content is readily available in torrents, and if nobody is willing to accept money for it, guess where consumers are going to get it from?

I assume these people would rather receive money for their content, but it sure doesn't seem like it.

jaydz2• 12 years ago

I signed up for the netflix free trial and no HD on any movie I attempted to watch. It was like watching an xvid avi file.

maccard2• 12 years ago

Sounds like a problem with your connection. Netflix streams 720p for me, but whenever there's a downward spike in my speed, rather than interrupt me by buffering it drops to 480p until it has had the chance to download again in 720p.

nnnnni• 12 years ago

If Popcorn Time "went legitimate", how much per month do you think would be a reasonable price?

I'd happily pay $30/month if it worked on my TV -- I'd just buy a digital antenna for local OTA broadcasts.

Even $50/month wouldn't be too horrible. I believe that $30 is the "sweet spot", though.

mintone• 12 years ago

I would suggest that this is by far the biggest possible advert that popcorn time could want.

Gonzih• 12 years ago

So when we will see new page for the project build by community?

belorn• 12 years ago

I am sure one will pop up as a tor hidden service any minute now.

jaydz2• 12 years ago

http://popcorn.cdnjd.com

kenanc• 12 years ago

Netflix in Denmark: Price "79 kr" (14.72 $) 1.700 movies

Netflix in America: Price (7.99 $) over 14.000 movies

Makes no sense

vvvVVVvvv• 12 years ago

Netflix in Ireland (and Uk roughly the same price) : 6.99 € (or 7.99)

Unosolo2• 12 years ago

The reasons why existing video services do not work for me and I've tried Google Play and Amazon Instant so far:

- Lack of on-demand high quality (true 1080) option: Google Play is 480 and Amazon Instant is blurry on a big screen. Besides Amazon states in their TOC that they can change quality as they see fit at the time of a video being played.

- Insistence on specific playback tech. Amazon Instant mandates Silverlight and the playback is choppy on my media centre PC due to Silverlight's graphic acceleration issues.

- Lack of audio track (and often subtitle) options: in UK that's English only. I want to be able to watch films dubbed and have a selection of translations that are already available.

More generally I am opposed to the prepackaged nature of the paid service offered and lack of control over how and what I can watch.

Some alternative ways of viewing the content offer me great choice and full control over:

  1. Title I choose to watch.
  2. Video quality.
  3. Audio quality.
  4. Audio track. 
  5. Subtitles.
  6. Streaming vs. download, so I can make the best use of my connection.
  7. Hardware and software I am using for viewing.

In other words these matters are decided based on demand, instead of someone's opinion of what the demand should be.

josefresco2• 12 years ago

If you're concerned with quality, why not "purchase" the movies in a marketplace like iTunes or Google Play?

Unosolo2• 12 years ago

"Purchase" doesn't quite reflect modern TOC, I believe the more exact term would be "pay a premium for a longer term license to view video content that is revokable at vendor's will; neither continued availability nor immutability of the initially licensed content is guaranteed".

I would really prefer to pay per view instead and retain a high degree of control over my hardware and software configuration as well as having a reasonable choice of options in terms of video quality, various subtitles and audio tracks.

Ideally I'd be able to buy audio track or subtitles separately to combine with the video content for viewing (plug-in), then there would be a robust market of competing translations.

palebluedot• 12 years ago

Lack of on-demand high quality (true 1080) option: Google Play is 480 and Amazon Instant is blurry on a big screen. Besides Amazon states in their TOC that they can change quality as they see fit at the time of a video being played

I believe Google Play does offer up to 1080p [1] - most of the TV shows and movies that I've watched on there are either 720p or 1080p. I am in the US, so perhaps that is different in the UK.

My biggest beef with both Netflix / Google / Amazon is not the video resolution, which is almost always HD for me. The problem is the lack of multi-channel surround sound. It is pretty hit or miss which tv shows, or movies, have surround sound - on all of the services.

[1] https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/2528768?hl=en

contingencies• 12 years ago

We've had streaming torrent players for a decade here in mainland China.

maccard2• 12 years ago

My stance, as a Netflix and Spotify subscriber is: I'd be happy to pay double what I'm paying right now if you would give me the content. If I had the ability to get the US Netflix library selection(Ireland here) for 16 euro a month I'd be delighted. Remember also, that we pay much more than you guys in the states do. You pay 60 euro a year, whereas we pay 100, and you get more content than we do. I don't get why they don't want my money.If I can't find it on netflix/spotify I'll check iTunes, which is usually a dead end, and then finally I'll pirate it. Why not let me pay 8 bucks a month for HBO access aswell, I'd happily do it!

gibbitz• 12 years ago

feel the need to chime in here... The reason this is taking off is because the content providers are signing sweetheart deals with the services. If I could pay one source a manageable amount to stream whatever I wanted (even if I had to pay per view), I would take it in a heartbeat (sorry Amazon Prime, you don't have everything). But alas, capitalism fails us here and we're left as consumers to break the law in order to get what we would pay for otherwise. Seriously, People are not all going to get Cable TV, Netflix, Amazon Prime, Red Box, Warner Brothers, and Hulu Plus in order to have access to 80% of movies released before 1995. In the past we had video rental shops VCRs and DVD players, they're all going or gone now. If the industry wants to stay profitable, they need to either become more cost efficient (sorry Brad Pitt, but you need to take a paycut with the rest of us) or provide us with an easier means of accessing the content online. What's happening here is not too different from the disruption caused by the original iPhone to the carrier market. They're still reeling from it even though they should have expected it. Let's see how long it takes content providers to figure out how to stay relevant without additional government regulation.

'Netflix for piracy' Popcorn Time saved by fans

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