Cockroach farms multiplying in China

http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-c1-china-cockroach-20131015-dto,2669,4433405.htmlstory

by darkchyld • 13 years ago

148 123 13 years ago

taigeair2• 13 years ago

woah it works for regrowing hair?

vincie• 13 years ago

And of course it cures cancer, diabetes, bad-breath and increases your virility and success with the ladies. They haven't tried it yet, but it should also increase your mileage if you put them in your gas tank.

taigeair2• 13 years ago

You say that but man eastern medicine is powerful stuff!!

mmagin• 13 years ago

I see loads of those outside at night in warm weather here. Maybe there's some kind of reverse-aliexpress I can use to sell them? :)

TeMPOraL2• 13 years ago

Just catch them and market yourself as "keeping the manufacturing on the U.S. soil"[0] ;).

[0] - assuming you currently live in US, not in Malaysia :).

thaumasiotes8• 13 years ago

"With cockroaches, you can invest 20 yuan and get back 150 yuan," or $3.25 for a return of $11.

?????????

As I see it, 150元 is seven and a half times as much as 20元. I didn't use any exchange rate of any sort to compute that.

Seven and a half times $3.25 is $24.375 . Using the most charitable interpretation I can think of, that's a return of $21.12 on an investment of $3.25, but put in the same terms as the original quote, I'd call it investing $3.25 and getting back $24.38. What happened there?

guerrilla• 13 years ago

Yes, you seem to be correct. Good catch. According to a google for "150 CNY in USD", "150 Chinese Yuan equals 24.59 US Dollar"

thaumasiotes8• 13 years ago

Well sure, but even if 150 chinese yuan were equal to 11 USD, turning 20 yuan into 150 yuan wouldn't be like turning $3.25 into $11, it would be like turning $3.25 into $24.375. It might be metaphysically more like turning $1.47 into $11, but absolute quantities aren't really at issue when you're talking about return rates (I'm assuming the cockroach farm, which by implication earns in the tens of thousands of USD per year, can scale up beyond a return of 150 yuan). It would have been easier and less of a gaffe for the reporter to say "you can invest 20 yuan and get back 150 yuan, or $20 for a return of $150". Why did they bother to print a conversion at all?

grault• 13 years ago

Maybe the bid-ask spread in that area for USD is that wide :D You might see something like this

        BUY       SELL
  USD   6.1538    13.3636

And it makes sense immediately. You have USD3.25, you buy 20元 for that. Pay for various resources, get back 150元. Well, you can get only USD11 for that.

spodek• 13 years ago

Capitalism is stronger than customs.

If growing them feeds people efficiently, we'll see it here soon enough.

Potatoes didn't exist outside the Americas until after 1492. Then many cultures viewed them as lowly and not worth eating. But you can feed more people per area than any other food and they grow in more types of land than many other edible plants. Cultures would reject them until a famine struck. Then the ruler would eat them out of necessity. Then everyone would eat them. Now potatoes are in more cuisines of the world than any other food.

If cockroaches are efficient, I would expect a few shocks in some commodity markets to put them on a few cultures' dinner plates, then to spread. Like roaches, if you'll pardon the pun.

thaumasiotes8• 13 years ago

Cultures would reject them [potatoes] until a famine struck. Then the ruler would eat them out of necessity. Then everyone would eat them.

I'd love to read more about this. Can you point me to a particular episode? The ruler is pretty much the last person I'd expect to eat something out of necessity.

farnsworth• 13 years ago

Maybe not out of necessity for the ruler, but to convince the people to eat them out of necessity. (I'm just guessing, would also be interested in learning more.)

imarg• 13 years ago

There is an interesting story (that probably is just a myth) of how potatoes were introduced in Greece.

The then head of state, Kapodistrias:

"Having ordered a shipment of potatoes, at first he ordered that they be offered to anyone interested. However the potatoes were met with indifference by the population and the whole scheme seemed to be failing. Therefore Kapodistrias, knowing of the contemporary Greek attitudes, ordered that the whole shipment of potatoes be unloaded in public display on the docks of Nafplion, and placed with severe-looking guards guarding it. Soon, rumours circulated that for the potatoes to be so well guarded they had to be of great importance. People would gather to look at the so-important potatoes and soon some tried to steal them. The guards had been ordered in advance to turn a blind eye to such behaviour, and soon the potatoes had all been "stolen" and Kapodistrias' plan to introduce them to Greece had succeeded."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ioannis_Kapodistrias#Administra... (2nd paragraph)

k-mcgrady• 13 years ago

> "Cultures would reject them until a famine struck."

Ironic considering the devastating effects of the reliance on potatoes during the Irish potato famine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)

seanmcdirmid• 13 years ago

Not ironic. The Irish lower class became overly dependent on cheap/easy potatoes b/c the English had taken their land so they couldn't do better. The famine then forced many of them to migrate to America, and Ireland's population hasn't recovered since.

mathattack2• 13 years ago

From the wiki, perhaps it wasn't as much of a general food shortage as popularly claimed.

The usage of the word famine is a misnomer. Although the potato crop failed, the country was still producing and exporting more than enough grain crops to feed the population. Records show during the period Ireland was exporting approximately thirty to fifty shiploads per day of food produce. As a consequence of these exports and a number other factors such as land acquisition, absentee landlords and the effect of the 1690 penal laws, the Great Famine today is viewed by a number of historical academics as a form of either direct or indirect genocide.

sliverstorm2• 13 years ago

Now potatoes are in more cuisines of the world than any other food.

Oh? Not even onions?

Amadou3• 13 years ago

Cultures would reject them until a famine struck. Then the ruler would eat them out of necessity.

It is incredibly rare for the "rulers" to have their personal food supply impacted by a famine.

Amartya Sen won the Nobel Prize in Economic Science for (I'm vastly over-simplifying) research that indicates only dictatorships have famines because the rulers are insulated from the effects and so have little motivation to fix the systemic problems that cause famines. The "let them eat cake" syndrome (although that quote itself is historically misleading).

The premise is that in a democracy the rulers still eat well, but there are other mechanisms for them to share in the suffering of famine so it never gets to that point.

http://www.wright.edu/~tdung/sen.htm

dTal• 13 years ago

"Historically misleading" as in "never happened" - Rousseau seems to have either invented or adapted the anecdote for his autobiography, which attributed it only to "a great princess":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake

asgard10242• 13 years ago

Actually, it may be true for other areas as well, I thought about this few days ago in the context of free market and choice.

Maybe free market is harmful for society in the sense that market segmentation creates a choice between high and low quality based on price, and this choice doesn't force people who can afford the more expensive solution to make a fix for everybody.

There is lot of anecdotal evidence about this. For example, there was article about school system in Finland, which is pretty much egalitarian. Still, the quality is great as a side effect probably because if someone improves the system, they improve it for everybody.

Similar things could be said about healthcare system. In fact, probably every successful government-run system is based on belief of participants that it should be egalitarian (and yes, they do exist).

We have negative examples of this as well. Most consumer product have awfully low quality, lower than what we could actually manufacture. The standard response to this is "you have a choice" and indeed, the knowledgeable people can buy quality for much higher price. But in doing so, they won't improve quality for those clueless, leaving them to buy lemons.

Interestingly, even the knowledgeable group is then affected. They have to pay higher price, because they get less market power, because they chose not to extend this power by leaving others to bad choice.

mercurial• 13 years ago

Amartya Sen won the Nobel Prize in Economic Science for (I'm vastly over-simplifying) research that indicates only dictatorships have famines because the rulers are insulated from the effects and so have little motivation to fix the systemic problems that cause famines. The "let them eat cake" syndrome (although that quote itself is historically misleading).

Should we deduce that, by electing wealthy people, we ensure that they have no incentive to fix the systemic problems which cause a cycle of economic crises?

coldtea2• 13 years ago

Capitalism is stronger than customs.

What you describe below, besides inaccurate (lots of very efficient food sources never made much dent to other cultures, potatoes are more of an exception than an example), is not capitalism, but hunger.

In a famine people will even eat rats (or fellow men).

That's not really about capitalism. It worked that way under every kind of economic system, including ones predating capitalism by milenia.

nate_meurer• 13 years ago

Not sure what your point is. Production of products that solve our hunger problems (i.e., food) are driven by market forces to some extent regardless of economic system. Just because the same forces apply when the state controls the means of production, for example, doesn't make the OP any less accurate.

And exactly which economic systems predate capitalism by milenia?

haiduc• 13 years ago

We may thank Antoine-Augustin Parmentier for his efforts convincing people to eat potatoes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine-Augustin_Parmentier

""" Parmentier therefore began a series of publicity stunts for which he remains notable today, hosting dinners at which potato dishes featured prominently and guests included luminaries such as Benjamin Franklin and Antoine Lavoisier, giving bouquets of potato blossoms to the King and Queen, and surrounding his potato patch at Sablons with armed guards to suggest valuable goods — then instructed them to accept any and all bribes from civilians and withdrawing them at night so the greedy crowd could "steal" the potatoes. (These 54 arpents of impoverished ground near Neuilly, west of Paris, had been allotted him by order of Louis XVI in 1787.[3]) """

jonnathanson• 13 years ago

Apropos of nothing, we eat a lot of "shellfish," which is a polite euphemism for the critters that are basically the cockroaches of the sea: shrimp, crabs, and lobster. Genetically speaking, these guys aren't too far removed from land-dwelling arthropods, roaches included. They just wound up with stronger branding back in the day. Maybe they had a better agent.

Regardless, plenty of cultures around the world eat insects, and our North American cousins south of the border eat crickets by the barrel. They're fantastic, once you get over what they are. So are silkworms, which I've scarfed down at Korean restaurants. I imagine roaches, properly prepared, eat like popcorn.

If there's a palatable and efficient way to harvest them, someone will figure out how to make it work. The concept of sushi was once considered exotic and borderline repugnant in the US, and now it's a lunchtime staple. To that effect, I could see the rebranding of the roach beginning at the high end of the market, rather than the bottom. Fancy restaurateurs will experiment with them, perhaps as much for shock value as for culinary effect. This will start a trend, and pretty soon, they'll be the hot new thing at hipster food trucks, expensive gastropubs, and boutique coffee shops.

Then again, maybe not. People have been trying to make insect-based cuisine happen in the US for many years now, and it's been very slow to attract any real attention or adoption. The humble cockroach probably suffers from the worst stigmatization of all the insects, though. So it's got a tough path to navigate to respectability. Others will probably have to pave the way before the roach can gain any appeal. Crickets, which are very closely related and can be a similar domestic nuisance, strike people as cute and charming for whatever reason (these people probably haven't seen the bigger ones). They will probably come first.

pkfrank• 13 years ago

I'm more excited by cricket farming for protein flour (here in the US).

There's a Brooklyn company called Exo (Exo.co) which is doing just that after a kickstarter campaign + media blitz. Cricket flour is super high in protein, and also very sustainable. Could see it becoming the next acai, chia seed, quinoa, etc.

rob05c• 13 years ago

I don't know how common my sentiment is, but I'd be far more inclined to eat crickets than cockroaches. I psychologically associate roaches with disease. Crickets are just another insect.

I realize this is irrational, and that fauna which feed on garbage like rats and roaches can be farm-raised in sanitary conditions. I'm still not going to eat a roach.

31reasons• 13 years ago

I don't know how common my sentiment is, but I would stay the hell away from anything related to insects for purely psychological reasons.

sliverstorm2• 13 years ago

I also wonder if crickets or grasshoppers wouldn't be more efficient, being less chitinous?

ekianjo8• 13 years ago

Would you feel the same if they make "insect butter" instead of selling fried roaches ? I guess most of the psychological repulsion comes from the appearance...

stcredzero5• 13 years ago

I psychologically associate roaches with disease. Crickets are just another insect.

To my generation, not just another insect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cricket_in_Times_Square

hanley• 13 years ago

You should also check out Chapul Bars [1], they are the original cricket flour bar. The Chaco bar is very tasty, I haven't tried the other flavors yet. Unfortunately, Chapul doesn't seem to be on their marketing/media hype game like Exo is.

[1] http://chapul.com/

jtreminio• 13 years ago

Except all those are seeds, while cricket is insect.

coldcode• 13 years ago

I've eaten grasshoppers in Mexico, sautéed in tomato sauce. They were OK but I wouldn't go out of my way to eat them. Shrimp are not terribly different yet people eat them all the time.

clarkdave• 13 years ago

I set up a mini cockroach farm to feed my lizard (a bearded dragon). They're easy to look after, very low maintenance, never bite and don't make much noise. I can't say I've ever wanted to eat one, but I can see why they'd be an excellent creature to farm if people are willing.

giardini• 13 years ago

They _will_ bite! Try catching one that doesn't want to be caught.

dwaltrip6• 13 years ago

I find it interesting how blatantly those quoted in the article talk about the pursuit of wealth. One of the local Chinese governments even has an award for "expert in getting wealthy"! I guess it isn't as reprehensible coming from a country with so many rural poor, but I still find it depressing.

nohuck13• 13 years ago

Can you explain this? Is it the pursuit of wealth that's reprehensible to you? Violating the taboo against talking too openly about it? Or just the ridiculous award?

I don't find it reprehensible at all. It's not like the cockroach farmer is saying he wants to be a party leader so he get lucrative contracts for his friends. He seems to be just selling a product.

dwaltrip6• 13 years ago

I don't jive with the pursuit of wealth for wealth's sake. There was a study showing that once we have enough to be comfortable, additional wealth has no correlation with increased happiness. I also think that the materialistic and ultra-consupmtion-based aspects of many modern societies are somewhat harmful. It is all about status, posturing, and buying shit you don't need. But I don't want to rant too much :)

ekianjo8• 13 years ago

Not all countries/people feel bad about getting rich. :) In China on every new Year you wish each other "prosperity" and this partly linked to making it big, too.

Amadou3• 13 years ago

On the other hand, I new a girl who came over on a post-Tienanmen visa (they let practically anyone from China in to the US for a while after that incident). She was from a rural town, yet she told me they had a saying about Shanghainese (apparently there is a lot of regional jingoism there). The saying translated roughly as "You can't get that rich without doing something bad."

dwaltrip6• 13 years ago

I don't think wealthy people should feel bad or guilty, just that people should not blindly chase wealth as the most important goal in life.

Volpe4• 13 years ago

Yeah! Other people/cultures are just downright offensive, why can't everyone be just like me, share my values, and think exactly like I do!

Or alternatively, perhaps we can respect other peoples world views without judging them within our own limited set of cultural values.

stcredzero5• 13 years ago

You can't have a multicultural civilization without some framework in which one makes judgements. A member's values (shown by actions) can't be incompatible with a multicultural society. Such a society would be too tolerant and wouldn't last.

dwaltrip6• 13 years ago

Tolerance for tolerance's sake eh? I don't think that endlessly and gratuiously chasing wealth is a healthy way to live, why should I change my opinion?

Quiark• 13 years ago

That's the Chinese culture. I live in Hong Kong, visit China from time to time and I see it everywhere. In the West, we politely pretend that we don't care about material wealth. The Chinese, on the other hand, spend lots of time and money to show off how rich they are. Not all of them, obviously, I have some friends who don't share this attitude and I also heard about Chinese moving to the west, because they just couldn't stand it.

blisterpeanuts2• 13 years ago

When I lived in Taiwan, there were wealthy people who lived in shabby looking houses that were indistinguishable from the dwellings of middle class and working class folks.

But if you went inside, you were likely to find all the trappings of 1980s affluence (all sorts of consumer electronics, nice art on the walls, gorgeous furniture).

China today has a nouveau riche that consumes conspicuously, but it's not a universal trait.

nichtich• 13 years ago

Which award is more depressing? "expert in slacking off", "expert in staying poor", "expert in getting wealthy". Also note that it's not an award for "wealthy" but "expert in getting wealthy", and later in the article the award winner is also helping others to do what she does.

cylinder• 13 years ago

I find it odd that you glorify poverty.

dwaltrip6• 13 years ago

Your interpretation of my words is entertaining.

PeterisP3• 13 years ago

Pursuit of wealth is pretty much the only way how the rural poor can stop, well, being rural poor.

shaneofalltrad• 13 years ago

I read Hacker News on a daily now and never in my life thought a topic from my previous daily reads (Gecko and Reptile forums) would ever make it here! I once bred roaches for reptile food and the lizards did prefer them over anything else, so I would guess they are tasty!

userulluipeste• 13 years ago

"I read Hacker News on a daily now and never in my life thought a topic from my previous daily reads (Gecko and Reptile forums) would ever make it here!"

But such a topic did make it here before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5750173

devx• 13 years ago

Wasn't lobster used to be called the "cockroach of the sea"?

If they change their names and brand them as something else, they could probably sell very well as expensive food, too.

Dirlewanger• 13 years ago

Are they good? What's the standard, throw a bunch of dried ones into a wok with sesame oil and they're ready to go?

mathattack2• 13 years ago

He expressed disapproval that visiting journalists refused to sample the roaches.

On saying goodbye at the end of the day, he added a final rejoinder.

"You will regret your whole life not trying them."

Whenever I travel, I do my best to eat like a local. In my sheltered life, I never ate sushi until I first visited Japan. There I had sushi so fresh it was still moving. I ate Balut [1] when someone handed me an egg in Manila. But I think my cultural adventure would have stopped at the same spot as the aforementioned journalists.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balut_(egg)

blisterpeanuts2• 13 years ago

My wife and I read a book a few years ago: "Man Eating Bugs", a travelogue of insect cuisine in many different lands.

It was quite fascinating. Children in Mexico would pick up a stink bug and eat it raw, a sour-crunchy snack. In Southeast Asia there's a large beetle about the size of a Snickers bar that in fact tastes like a Snickers bar. In Africa some folks like to eat large termites, a high protein food source. In Australia, there's a type of grub that lives in the roots of certain bushes that aborigines will cut open and eat. In Japan there are some "interesting" dishes.

I've tried grasshoppers, sold in tiny packets, salted and spiced to the point where you only taste the spice and salt. Bear Ghrylls demonstrated eating ants as a survival technique (remove the head first).

Insects are superior to meat in many ways--low fat, high quality protein and other nutrients, low on the food chain so they contain fewer toxins which tend to accumulate in herbivores and even more in carnivores.

You can harvest grasshoppers in the wild using nets. Just be careful that they haven't been chewing on poison ivy or other toxic plants which may do you harm.

I've long had it in mind to start an insect food business and this article was rather inspiring. This guy just started a cockroach farm and is making money.

It may sound disgusting to us squeamish Westerners, yet think about the notion of eating a pig or a cow, higher mammals which are fairly intelligent, creatures who exhibit emotions, who dream, who are evolutionarily our second cousins when compared to insects.

Just don't eat dragonflies (a popular skewered dish in a part of Indonesia). They keep down the mosquito population.

willismichael• 13 years ago

When people react with disgust to the idea of insect-based cuisine, I ask if they eat shrimp. They're not entirely different, both being arthropods.

squozzer• 13 years ago

Grunka Lunka Dunkity Dingredient, you should not ask about the secret ingredient.

gwern• 13 years ago

A word of advice if you're trying out cockroaches/crickets/cicadas for yourself: do something about the shell if it isn't very soft. During the most recent cicada emergence in my area, I caught a bunch and cooked them up as spaghetti ( http://www.gwern.net/Notes#cicadas ); unfortunately, I didn't do anything about their shells, which were pretty tough toward the end of the emergence, and my dinner was less pleasant than I hoped.

Cockroach farms multiplying in China

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