Snowden Leaves Hong Kong on Commercial Flight to Moscow

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1267261/snowden-leaves-hong-kong-commercial-flight-moscow

by bendoernberg • 13 years ago

324 190 13 years ago

alexqgb2• 13 years ago

Seems like this is where his carefully considered plan gets much more improvisational. Bad optics, just the same - even if he is on his way to Iceland.

LinaLauneBaer• 13 years ago

Why is Iceland such a bad idea?

alexqgb2• 13 years ago

Iceland's fine. It's going via Moscow that's the problem, at least in terms of the surrounding debate. It'll give a lot more ammunition to the "he betrayed his country" people, which won't be good for the exceedingly overdue conversation we were starting to have about secrecy and surveillance.

dclowd9901• 13 years ago

My guess is that Iceland would probably bend to the US's will pretty easily, especially over such a high profile individual.

mh-• 13 years ago

his fellow passengers are going to be rather annoyed if he causes this flight to be detained on the tarmac for hours.

samstave4• 13 years ago

or suffer "mechanical failure"

speeq• 13 years ago

Let us hope that the plane arrives :\ ..

https://www.google.com/search?q=Aeroflot+SU213

hkmurakami3• 13 years ago

idk, I'd probably happily put up with it if I knew that the hold up was Snowden related. Then again, I doubt that'd be made public in the aircraft.

peterjancelis• 13 years ago

Actually it would be awesome to sit next to Snowden on this flight.

gasull8• 13 years ago

I wish Snowden good luck, but I wouldn't like to be in the same flight with him. I would be that such flight would have a higher risk of "an accident".

enko3• 13 years ago

Man, how times have changed. I was born in the 70s and the US was the country you would run to to escape retribution for whistleblowing you did back home. (†)

For Snowden to be running to Russia to escape extradition from Hong Kong (!) is just fucking bizarro world for me. It is actually quite jarring. I don't trust Russia at all. But even thinking about it forces one to ask whether one trusts the USA. The answer to that is pretty jarring, too.

(†) I'm not making a right/wrong judgement about his actions. He blew a whistle, a whistle he thought needed to be blown. In my opinion that is a necessary check on state power and is a defence in and of itself.

necubi• 13 years ago

Really, they haven't. Daniel Ellsberg, the leaker of the Pentagon Papers (1971), was also also charged with espionage. In his case all the charges against him were dismissed. Not, to be clear, because of any contriteness on Nixon's part. Instead, it was because the government was found to have illegally bugged his phone and broken into the office of his psychiatrist in order to find material with which to discredit him. Several of those involved were later convicted as part of the watergate trials [0].

If you think things were better in the 70s, you really weren't paying attention.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ellsberg#Trial_and_mistr...

samstave4• 13 years ago

"because the government was found to have illegally bugged his phone and broken into the office of his psychiatrist

Can this not be actual legal precedence AGAINST the entire NSA debacle to begin with?

Seriously, can an IAMAL comment on if this could be used?

genwin• 13 years ago

because the government was found to have illegally bugged his phone

Man, how times have changed. Now espionage charges apply when someone leaks that the government bugged everyone's phone.

enko3• 13 years ago

If you think things were better in the 70s, you really weren't paying attention.

Yeah, well I was 3.

Even so I don't seem to recall Ellsberg fleeing the country to escape absolute certain injustice. I don't recall his video interview with a foreign paper while he hid in China. Do you?

Something has definitely changed.

DennisP2• 13 years ago

Ellsberg has been saying that things were in fact better back then. He was arrested, released on bail, and spent the next couple years able to tell his story to the media. Manning was arrested and kept in solitary for almost four years before his trial, isolated from the outside world.

akg_67• 13 years ago

Ironic, people used to seek asylum in US from persecution in other countries. How times have changed? Now people run to other countries for asylum to avoid persecution in US. More and more land of the free is becoming land of tyrants.

neilc• 13 years ago

20,000-40,000 people per year seek asylum in the US; we're discussing one person who has fled the US to avoid prosecution. Let's not overreact.

vbtemp4• 13 years ago

Ironic, people used to seek asylum in US from persecution in other countries. How times have changed? Now people run to other countries for asylum to avoid persecution in US. More and more land of the free is becoming land of tyrants.

Lol. Russia is a place where journalists are routinely murdered, where governors are appointed like local fiefs, where Putin has rigged elections and brutally intimidated opponents.

If you think Snowden is going there to avoid "persecution" I don't know what la-la-land you live in. He's going to run from the law, and he's going there because Russia is still geo-political public enemy #1, and they are giving him asylum not because he is some champion of human dignity (he lost that when he fled to China and revealed a whole lot more that was unrelated to surveillance), but because he has valuable information and having him in their possession obviously advances some political goals for them.

declan5• 13 years ago

Two thoughts: Russia has already offered Edward Snowden asylum. And we don't have independent confirmation that he's on that flight that lands in about 4 hours; we have just the SCMP report, and the destination isn't mentioned in the HK government statement. I wouldn't be surprised if some if it were misinformation.

joelrunyon4• 13 years ago

Two thoughts: Russia has already offered Edward Snowden asylum.

Do you have a source for this?

eatitraw• 13 years ago

I was born in the 70s and the US was the country you would run to to escape retribution for whistleblowing you did back home.

I assume you meant "your home" != USA. But even now many people still seek asylum in the USA.

As for Russia, it is certainly more free than in 70s, but a lot of people run from Russia because of prosecution for political reasons.

t0dd• 13 years ago

Did Assata Shakur find a safe haven here in the U.S. in the '70s? Read her autobiography. I don't think "times have changed" so much. There's just a larger number of political dissidents now (as there should be). The Internet and 24/7 sensationalism in the media have made exposing government lies more scandalous, too.

Tangaroa• 13 years ago

Assata Shakur? The terrorist? Of course she did not "find a safe haven here in the U.S." while she and her Black Liberation Army were shooting people and blowing up buildings. The police were trying to put her in jail.

znowi• 13 years ago

Russia will not risk a fairly good relationship with the US because of a "rogue" NSA contractor. They will readily hand him over at the first request (if not voluntary). I'd say it's a risk for Snowden to even land in Moscow. Possibly, it was the lesser evil on the way to safe haven in Cuba or some place else.

Shivetya• 13 years ago

have you been paying attention? Putin has shown quite a bit of disdain for Obama for many years and this year he just about dismisses him. When has Russia done much of anything recently to show its earnest co work with us?

If anything the past years have reset a lot of relationships and not for the better.

fleitz• 13 years ago

In the modern era you can't really hide so he might as well be as public about it as you can be.

Russia is definitely an interesting move, and Putin has been playing the whole thing very smart. I wonder what he knows that the Russians don't, or what they can now reveal having found out through Snowden rather than the usual sources.

It seems to me the value in Snowden is mostly making public what everyone already knew.

hkmurakami3• 13 years ago

It seems to me the value in Snowden is mostly making public what everyone already knew.

There must be some value to be able to say "no, look at these" to those who would have just cried "conspiracy theory" and then laughed in your face.

enko3• 13 years ago

making public what everyone already knew

I can't find a link, but there has been a "meme" graphic going around with, I think, a very insightful caption.

For years, you go around trying to raise the alarm, and you're a crazy conspiracy theorist.

Then when you finally get conclusive proof - it's old news, everyone knows, you've been saying it for years!

samstave4• 13 years ago

Eschelonitis

Andrew_Quentin• 13 years ago

Welcome to rhetorics 101

hkmurakami3• 13 years ago

Moscow will not be his final destination. Possible final destinations are either Iceland and Ecuador, according to previous media reports.

I first thought that Ecuador would be more likely, since had Iceland been his final destination, he probably would have taken the Icelandic businessman's offer to hire him a chartered flight. But then I realized that perhaps Snowden places more trust in a commercial flight and not being detained in Moscow than a stranger's chartered flight which could potentially backstab him and hand him over to US authorities.

samstave4• 13 years ago

Or, he could have bought the ticket to moscow and went to HKG with the ticket to board the commercial flight to Ecuador via moscow and then boarded the private plane to KEF

(unlikely - but fun to think about)

mtgx2• 13 years ago

Iceland hasn't exactly been very vocal about supporting him, so Ecuador might be the best choice. Russia I think was pretty vocal, but maybe they just wanted to make fun of US, and aren't really serious about protecting Snowden. Plus, they support US's surveillance state, so there's little reason why they'd want to protect him, other than being vengeful against US for whatever reason.

Ecuador so far has been pretty good for Assange, and they might continue to want to be seen as "the country that stood up to US", but nobody really knows how far they are willing to go to do that. At least Assange hasn't even been charged with anything by US, yet.

_k• 13 years ago

Putin didn't really say they support the US's surveillance state, he said surveillance is necessary but you need a warrant.

perlpimp2• 13 years ago

I'd rather not lump whole country together and rather refine to US Federal Government executive branch and their services.

runarberg• 13 years ago

The Icelandic domestic minister (which handles asylum requests) has announced that Snowden will be treated like any other asylum seeker[1]. That is not good news for Snowden since Iceland's take on asylum seekers is usually to not handle their case at all, or turn them back[2].

However Hanna Birna (the minister) has been highly criticized for her take on the issue, since it clearly contradicts the IMMI initiative (https://immi.is/). And hopes are that the Parliament will handle his case. But in short, the Icelandic government is not going to do anything about Snowden.

[1] http://www.visir.is/engin-sermedferd-fyrir-snowden/article/2... (icelandic)

[2] some statisstics here (http://redcross.lausn.is/Apps/WebObjects/RedCross.woa/swdocu...) in icelandic too.

coldtea3• 13 years ago

I first thought that Ecuador would be more likely

Ecuador? I don't see that happening. It's a remote, third worldish place, where state officials could be bribed to hand him over, or he could be abducted or worse by any small team, including paid local thugs.

Iceland, as a country with an actual rule of law et al, and closer to Europe, it will be far more difficult.

insuffi9• 13 years ago

Because all "third world-ish" places are the same. Also, because Ecuador doesn't have an actual rule of law, hasn't been holding Assange in its embassy for years and isn't easy to disappear in.

coldtea3• 13 years ago

Downvote? Because somebody thinks a Latin American country makes for a good shelter for him?

nsns• 13 years ago

Not only his leaks, even his itinerary makes the US look bad.

mtgx2• 13 years ago

Republican media: "Now he's aiding all the enemies, not just China!"

Because in their minds China and others are actual "enemies".

joelrunyon4• 13 years ago

You could have just left this at 'american media'

omni_• 13 years ago

Don't for a second think this is a partisan issue. There are just as many liberal media organizations doing this type of reporting on Snowden.

cema• 13 years ago

Republican? Well, the USA is a republic, but I assume you meant Republican as in, aligned with the Republican party. That is strange: as others mentioned, on this issue, media is not split according to the party lines.

pvnick• 13 years ago

I agree with your overall sentiment, but we are far beyond partisan politics at this point. Now all they serve to do is divide us and weaken our position. All of the democrats and republicans who play a role in this spying operation or who advocate it need to go.

uvdiv4• 13 years ago

This is strange, because there are no scheduled nonstop flights between Moscow (any airport) and Iceland. There are flights which make a connection in Europe, e.g. Helsinki, but then there are already nonstop flights to Helsinki from Hong Kong, so what does he gain from an additional landing in Moscow?

(Assuming Iceland is where he is trying to go).

http://matrix.itasoftware.com/

http://flightaware.com

(Note that the hub in Iceland is Keflavík (KEF), not Reykjavík (RKV) which mostly does domestic).

IvyMike• 13 years ago

Possible private plane arrangements?

Also: He might have had to get on a plane IMMEDIATELY which probably limited his choices.

Kudos• 13 years ago

Is Iceland definitely his final destination?

uvdiv4• 13 years ago

No. Nothing has been reported that claims it is definite.

Svip3• 13 years ago

Furthermore, in Russia, he will have to go to the Danish embassy or consulate to get asylum in Iceland. I am not sure how this helps or disadvantages him, but I thought I'd mention that Iceland themselves don't have an embassy/consulate in Russia, but is represented by Denmark.

tomjen32• 13 years ago

Dane here. Our politicians will hand him over to the US if they can, but by law they can't if he faces the death penalty or if he is likely to be treated inhumanely.

tome• 13 years ago

Why the Danish embassy and not the Icelandic embassy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embassy_of_Iceland_in_Moscow

alex_doom• 13 years ago

Could be just a misdirection. See you in Russia! Lands in Iceland.

mherdeg• 13 years ago

Yeah, as you guessed, the current speculation is something like SVO-HAV-CCS.

rs2322• 13 years ago

The Pirate Party in Norway is claiming he will land in Oslo en route to Iceland.

https://twitter.com/PiratPartiet_No

*However the only OSL-KEF flight today leaves in 20 minutes (16:05 local)

marvin2• 13 years ago

The is an Icelandair flight from Oslo to Keflavik leaving at 21:55 local time.

gasull8• 13 years ago

Google translate: Snowden has landed in Moscow on the way to Oslo, Gardermoen. Pirate Party mobilizes support in Oslo when he arrives.

https://twitter.com/PiratPartiet_No/status/34878871367489945...

lignuist2• 13 years ago

For those who want to hypothesize: Here you can check the departures from Moskow after 17:15h

http://svo.aero/en/timetable/today/

I think destinations in Russia, EU and Asia can be safely filtered out.

weinzierl• 13 years ago

This is only for Sheremetyevo, at least Domodedovo also has international connections.

lignuist2• 13 years ago

Yes, but his plane arrives at Sheremetyevo. However, he could still go to Domodevo, but this might be risky for him.

Maybe he talked to Russian representatives before flying to Russia. This might buy him a few days.

Irishsteve• 13 years ago

I'm not sure which is a worse fate, spending eternity in guantanamo bay, or spending an eternity in moscow traffic

pivnicek• 13 years ago

Thanks for that link. Seem to be a few flights out to Havana. That would be an interesting destination.

uvdiv4• 13 years ago

We'll at least he'd be safe from NSA spying there, seeing as the whole island is air-gapped.

edcastro• 13 years ago

Seems he is heading to Venezuela through Cuba.

CurtMonash2• 13 years ago

I'd be happier if he weren't putting himself under the control of governments that can reasonably be regarded as US adversaries. Thus, I'm with Assange that Ecuador or something was the way for Snowden to go.

Yes, there would be a risk to him of regime change in any such place, but so be it ...

DominikR2• 13 years ago

I'd like to see what your actions would have been if you were facing life in prison under solitary confinement like Bradley Manning does (or even worse - torture & execution)

Any government that isn't a US adversary would surely extradite him, so it seems reasonable to me that he was in China and now travels through Russia.

Chinese dissidents do the same thing, they flee to Chinese adversaries (like the US)

IronWhale• 13 years ago

or even worse - torture

All studies that I know of show that solitary confinement is torture after a few weeks.

insuffi9• 13 years ago

You mean reasonably regard as adversaries based on what you hear on the TV spouting pro-american propaganda.

Who cares, honestly. Nobody's going to try and extract secrets from him. 1) he's clearly a true patriot 2) if he were to suddenly disappear in some "enemy" country, it would surely create huge public uproar. It's all public now. 3) As the comment above said it - the only ones that can fight the us are, mostly, its adversaries and truly independent countries.

CurtMonash2• 13 years ago

Yep. Since I put that comment up, the news has suggested he's doing the right thing after all. China & Russia don't seem to have a better play here than letting him in and out fast enough to make it clear he didn't have to spill secrets to them in private conversation in return for aid -- thus preserving his credibility to generally embarrass US intelligence.

spitx2• 13 years ago

Let's not get cute here.

If the United States wanted him extracted (on the way to Hong Kong) or worse, killed during his sojourn in HK, Snowden would have already faced a fate several orders worse than Alexander V. Litvinenko.

It isn't a huge tab for the U.S. to foot in the way of deploying deep cover teams to "take care" of Snowden - for what had been alleged to be the biggest U.S. intelligence leak in a generation - in the least suspicion-arousing manner long before Greenwald ever published his story.

For a nation that outspends the next ten defense budgets combined (even with the off late sequestration cuts accounted for) this is not much of a task.

The top brass could have taken care of this in a manner several orders more believable than the 2006 killing of Alexander V. Litvinenko in which the uber rare, and thus strictly available to only government bodies, Polonium-210 was used.

They could have made it seem like a forlorn affair of unrequited love with that dancer-acrobat girlfriend of his.

It is acutely nonsensical to assume that movements of sensitive personnel, like Snowden, are not tracked, especially to far-flung locations like HK given that he is not a field operative of any kind.

The NSA and other assorted intelligence/military organizations probably have a protocol for dealing with these things,in conjunction with the Justice department.

If they didn't before, Manning's case would have elicited the need for one.

Source:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/03/world/europe/03russian.htm...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinen...

http://nation.time.com/2012/09/25/comparing-defense-budgets-...

http://www.forensicmag.com/articles/2009/06/polonium-210-and...

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mbvd/this-might-be-the-girlfriend-ed...

jamespo• 13 years ago

They want him extradited, they don't want him killed so I'm not sure how the rest of your comment about a different government's actions is relevant.

declan5• 13 years ago

Your suggestions are far too cute, actually. By going public, and periodically reminding everyone that he could be targeted for assassination, Snowden has created a strong incentive for FedGov to keep him very much alive.

spitx2• 13 years ago

I was referring to the fact that had they wanted they could have scuttled his efforts even before he arranged to speak to Greenwald and Poitras.

If the NSA or BAH were to submit that they were unaware of Snowden's whereabouts or movements when he arranged these interviews, they would in all likeliness be resorting to feigning ignorance.

It's the height of silliness to suggest they were clueless about Snowden's motives before his junket began.

Source:

http://www.salon.com/2013/06/10/qa_with_laura_poitras_the_wo...

woah• 13 years ago

Cool story bro

insuffi9• 13 years ago

You seem to forget that, as has been proved,especially when it comes to government contractors, the US intelligence agencies are hilariously inefficient at what they do. That is what makes this sentence so funny: "For a nation that outspends the next ten defense budgets combined (even with the off late sequestration cuts accounted for) this is not much of a task."

Stop with the U.S. god complex already.

epo• 13 years ago

This story is part of the ongoing propaganda war between the USA and China. The only thing we know for certain is that the Chinese say he has boarded a plane to Moscow, he may or may not have done. He may or may not still be alive. The Chinese may even have secretly handed him back to the Americans. We don't know and it is probably best to be sceptical about everything you read until a journalist and film crew meets him face to face.

joelrunyon4• 13 years ago

It seems he's definitely left HK - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5926668

h4pless7• 13 years ago

Snowden running is not something to be confused with an admission of guilt, but at the same time, it does prove that he is not a patriot. With his worldwide recognition: the safest course would be for him to publicly turn himself in to a US police station or deliver himself to a courtroom. He would have a very public trial and would have an even farther reaching message in this country. By running he shows that he has no faith in this country and no longer considers himself a citizen. Not only that but he opens himself up to a ridiculous amount of risk by being wide open in foreign countries where things are semi-expected to happen to travelers by this country. If something happens to him while he's in the legal system of this country, the people responsible for him would be crucified by the media and everyone else. Granted he could be silenced and have his reputation destroyed by the media while incarcerated in this country but I believe a patriot works with the system or fights within it, only a coward runs.

infinity03• 13 years ago

爱国不爱党

loving one's country is not the same as loving one's government.

h4pless7• 13 years ago

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate feedback over a superficial down-vote. However I don't understand how I suggested that being a patriot is loving one's government.

Joeri• 13 years ago

He can't deliver himself to a courtroom because he knows he would be found guilty. Just like bradley manning he clearly and obviously broke the law and has no recourse but to plead guilty and get sent to jail (or to his death, but they wouldn't do that as it would make a martyr out of him). The issue is not whether he would be convicted, because surely he would be, it's whether the laws are just to begin with.

OK, maybe he could have gone to prison "nelson mandela"-style to be a symbol of a movement, but I don't think it's an act of cowardice if you don't quite live up to that ideal. There is a huge gap between being a hero and being a coward. In Snowden's own words he is neither (just by revealing what he revealed he has already imprisoned himself to a degree).

h4pless7• 13 years ago

Hey thanks for replying,

I agree that he would easily be found guilty of the charges if he were to present himself to a courtroom. But what I was trying to suggest was that if he admitted himself to the court system, and was found guilty, there is a much larger chance that there would be a lot more question as to whether or not the law was just (not to mention that if he stayed in country, espionage charges would make a lot less sense).

By running, he invites the comparison to being a spy. It will be a major talking point in the news to come. And it's generally unsafe. If he is still alive and well, he opens himself up to a lot of mortal vulnerability by travelling.

I wasn't trying to say that he wasn't a hero. In fact I think him one of sorts. I was just trying to say that he wasn't a patriot. A patriot does not fight against his country from a foreign country or abandon his land. I just believe that there is a major difference between being a patriot and being a national hero.

michaelbuddy• 13 years ago

you're wrong, but whatever I guess. shall I tell you why? if you want to call out patriotism, you can justify Snowden as more of a patriot than anyone else in the NSA. Because if they are lying and disobeying the constitution, only a true patriot would speak out against it.

The other thing is. When he did his whistle blowing story, he had left the U.S., but wasn't charged at that point. But in his mind, he could do the most good by not sitting in a jail cell.

A coward? Whatever man. He's probably not afraid of being tortured or killed in prison. More like the endless boredom and how hopeless it would be. I totally understand why he would prefer to leave. Especially if he thinks it's a lost battle, The constitution I mean. It may well be.

insuffi9• 13 years ago

While I can see the point you're trying to make - give himself in for the sake of publicity, I also think you are making very far-fetched conclusions.

1)Running away from certain prosecution is not unpatriotic. He is a patriot of his country, not of his government. If they jailed him, he wouldn't be allowed to do anything to change the course of the trial(see Bradley Manning).

2) The government has already proved that it will go against the public opinion by officially charging him with espionage and treason. If they have not started doing damage control up until now, why should they after they jail him?

h4pless7• 13 years ago

Hey insuffi,

Thanks for the reply. To your response:

1) I am not trying to say that he should have stayed in the country to begin with necessarily because his act could obviously be construed as treason and be silenced immediately if jailed. I was also not trying to suggest that he is not a hero to this country (because by many accounts, he is) but rather I was trying to suggest that a patriot does not abandon the country to which he claims patriotism [because that would be completely illogical].

Now, Snowden is a very public international figure. If he were jailed, people would be watching his case very closely. Snowden's situation is different from Bradley Manning's because when a judgement is made, everyone will care because he did in fact give himself enough time to find refuge in another country and spread a full story and reveal himself to the world. He is now a popular culture figure for many countries.

However, the reason he invites claims of espionage is that he claims refuge in other countries. A patriot does not need to turn himself over to the government but must turn himself over to the people of the united states. By running he only makes himself appear more guilty in many people's minds. And by running he also opens himself up to a lot of conjecture as to why he's running.

2) The government is doing damage control by charging him. They have an unanswered opinion that can be broadcast to most of the country because he is fleeing (this old adage still applies to many people: An innocent man has nothing to hide). He is ruining his patriotic reputation by running from the country because he is giving everyone a chance to step back and insight any opinion they may about his patriotism, mental stability or really anything.

As a patriot I would agree he is justly afraid. But what I meant to suggest that by running, he is proving himself as a saboteur or spy to people who agree with many media streams and is leaving many things up to justifiable question.

seclorum2• 13 years ago

Right, because the United States justice system works so well when its (the US) ass is on the line. Just ask this guy:

http://www.saveamericafoundation.com/2013/06/21/top-us-journ...

h4pless7• 13 years ago

This was a man who was running before facing a trial or even charges. Not a man in the justice system. Who knows what really happened to him? Nobody. Because he was being secretive about his actions. He has allowed nothing but conjecture to his fate. I have been under investigation by the FBI; it doesn't mean they're going to kill you.

dubyah• 13 years ago

How on earth is that in any way credible? Most of the article is predicate on exacting details from a supposed GRU report that is never shown and doesn't seem to exist anywhere else aside from regurgitation from whatdoesitmean.com.

If he was travelling to the Israeli Consulate, he should have turned west at Santa Monica / Highland and stayed there most of the way. Instead he was traveling perpendicular by going south on Highland (spotted on the dashcam at Santa Monica / Highland and crashed south of Melrose / Highland). Roadwise, that takes him further away from the consulate, not closer. Even as an alternate route, he should have taken Sunset, which still would have meant going north or west from that point instead of south.

I also like how the article is so resolute on how there is no impact damage and how it had to have been hit by a drone / missile when the video and eyewitnesses say otherwise.

I liked his work and am sad that he is gone, but how is a drone strike more plausible than him possibly falling off the wagon and drunkenly crashing his car, which by his own admission, he's done before?

cinquemb• 13 years ago

“As the HKSAR government has yet to have sufficient information to process the request for provisional warrant of arrest, there is no legal basis to restrict Mr Snowden from leaving Hong Kong.”

I think Washington will wake up with a bitter taste in their mouths…

wilfra• 13 years ago

After he spent the last two weeks releasing info that helped both Hong Kong and China - I don't think they'll be all that surprise he was granted the ability to leave the country.

RexRollman• 13 years ago

He also released info that helped US citizens, as we are being kept in the dark in regards to the country's unconstitutional surveillance programs.

colin_jack• 13 years ago

People interested in this might also want to read the Guardians latest GCHQ revelations. Worryingly they seem to have been gathering more data and there is an interesting section on NSA involvement.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5926608

rlwolfcastle• 13 years ago

Not sure why he just didn't go to China initially and then use the Phoenix to fly wherever he wanted?

Dosenpfand• 13 years ago

It seems that he got help from Wikileaks' legal team:

FLASH: WikiLeaks has assisted Mr. Snowden's political asylum in a democratic country, travel papers ans safe exit from Hong Kong. More soon.

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/348724514135347200

FLASH: Mr. Snowden is currently over Russian airspace accompanied by WikiLeaks legal advisors.

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/348732325909102593

cmdkeen• 13 years ago

Wikileaks legal advisers - he's flying to a country that is putting a dead whistleblower on trial in order to demonise him and cover up government corruption.

Relying on the legal process in Russia is a really good way to find out how different it is from America, however much certain people would like to think differently.

Because that dead whistleblower - he was a lawyer.

Lucadg• 13 years ago

WikiLeaks (@wikileaks) tweeted at 11:20am - 23 Jun 13:

FLASH: Mr. Snowden is currently over Russian airspace accompanied by WikiLeaks legal advisors. (https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/348732325909102593)

Edit: Oops sorry, somebody posted this already. Anyway, interesting news!

dschiptsov• 13 years ago

Never heard that we've implemented visa-on-arrival scheme.)

nzmsv• 13 years ago

No visa necessary if he doesn't leave the airport and gets on another flight within 24 hours.

oal• 13 years ago

The flight can be followed in real time on FlightRadar24: http://fr24.com/AFL213

jafaku• 13 years ago

Cool website. This is what I see: http://i.imm.io/1a7pX.jpeg

brown9-2• 13 years ago

Didn't he say that he intended to fight any extradition in the HK courts?

WeirdSemantics2• 13 years ago

Imho, given the publicity of the issue, there's no way the current US judicial system could find Snowden guilty of treason without creating a huge domestic and international scandal. Politically, this would turn into an enormous backlash. To maintain the image of a state of law, the US has no other choice than prosecute, but the outcome will turn out as either:

- a mistrial, followed by a strong attempt at burying the case somehow (probably with other events)

- a non guilty verdict, with spin doctoring to display the whole thing as a demonstration of the fact that the US constitution and overall legal system is sound,

- a "guilty" verdict, but with so much attenuating circumstances than there will be no significant sentence

However, for Snowden, I doubt that he will be able to find a job again in his line of work, after breaking the "ethic rules". What security company would hire a (skilled even) security analyst (or whatever Snowden was actually doing) if he cannot keep it shut on the internal practices? The scope could widen to any entreprise actually.

Thiz• 13 years ago

Running away from lucifer to fall in the arms of beelzebub?

Weird world.

haakon• 13 years ago

Snowden is going to land in Oslo airport, Norway and meet with the leader of our Pirate Party, before going on to his final destination which is supposed to be Iceland. Source, in Norwegian: https://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/uriks/Piratpartiet-Snowde...

johansch• 13 years ago

There's a flight for OSL that leaves from SVO in 1 hour 40 mins (18:45 local time):

http://info.flightmapper.net/flight/Aeroflot_SU_2534?date=20...

virtu• 13 years ago

Amazing publicity, there are still a few hours before he lands in Norway then. Sunday is the best day to travel for him propably...

Here is Google Translate of the above article: http://bit.ly/14RbV5Y

marvin2• 13 years ago

I wonder if this was an intentional leak. This was reported by the leader of Norway's Pirate Party on Twitter. With the misdirection regarding Cuba and Venzuela, I'm wondering whether he is actually headed for Iceland or somewhere else. Seems weird that they would publish something like this.

Oslo seems like a risky place to land since Norway has historically been very open to requests from US officials. Is anyone able to get in touch with someone involved and see if the leak was intentional, and if not get in touch with Snowden's Wikileaks entourage? (I'm from Norway, btw).

The latest flight leaving Oslo for Reykjavik today is Icelandair's FI325 at 21:55 local time.

untog2• 13 years ago

"I don't want public attention because I don't want the story to be about me. I want it to be about what the US government is doing."

"he fully expects the US government to attempt to use all its weight to punish him. 'I am not afraid,' he said calmly, 'because this is the choice I've made.'"

http://m.guardiannews.com/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-n...

Snowden Leaves Hong Kong on Commercial Flight to Moscow

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