Without Warning, Twitter Kills StatTweets

http://statsheet.com/blog/without-warning-twitter-kills-stattweets-businesses-beware

by RobbieStats • 17 years ago

58 37 17 years ago

Hates_• 17 years ago

As a side note this is reason I've always believed building an business/app of any importance on-top of another site is just crazy. You're at their mercy and there's nothing you can ever do to stop them shutting you out.

RobbieStats3• 17 years ago

I agree. That's what sucks about our dependency on Google too. Most Internet businesses are dependent on them and they can decide to remove you from the index as quickly as Twitter disabled the StatTweet accounts. Twitter effectively removed me from their index.

dryicerx2• 17 years ago

There is a difference between depending on Google and depending on Twitter.

Google is a multi faceted business, they have a good revenue model, have money, and are a proven company. Depending on them isn't crazy.

What's crazy is depending on Twitter, it's new, still have no solid revenue model to make money and sustain, in simple it's a single egg in the basket.

okeumeni• 17 years ago

I definitely agree especially at this point that Twitter is barely out of beta, the growth is enormous and the pressure is intense on the staff.

jfarmer2• 17 years ago

Every business is built on other businesses. In the 1800s if you wanted distribution you had to play ball with the railroad barons.

This is just the 21st century equivalent.

Likewise, if you're building a destination website you're dependent on Google, email spam lists (don't get blacklisted!), browser vendors (MSFT and ESPN once conspired to make espn.com for IE-only), and even ISPs (see: Net Neutrality).

The risks are higher on Facebook and Twitter, but the upside is also higher. For example, I launched a Facebook application late last week and it already has 500k users. That kind of distribution is hard to get elsewhere.

dryicerx2• 17 years ago

There is a difference between those early dependence and Twitter. Twitter is still young, it's uncertain, and worst it's future is really unpredictable because it doesn't even have a business model to generate revenue yet.

Building on top of a business is sensible when you are depending on something that's been there for a while, know it's dependable and have a reputation. This twitter does not have.

If the same service as Twitter was provided by Google, Amazon or even Microsoft, you know it's backed by something solid.

philh• 17 years ago

At the same time, that site might be creating business opportunities that wouldn't otherwise exist.

And almost any business will be dependant, to some extent, on others. It's a question of how many of your dependencies are irreplaceable, and how likely they are to shut you out.

See for example http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/outage-10-08.html - they went down and lost all their data because the hosting company had a fight with the people who owned the building where the servers were kept. (Including backups, which made the host irreplaceable - with offsite backups, that wouldn't have been the case.)

Building on a site like twitter might increase the risk of being cut off on a whim, but it probably decreases the risk of competitors.

pj2• 17 years ago

I think Twitter here is making the correct decision.

I know it isn't happy for you, RobbieStats, but the ramifications for them, whether you are breaking the law, or they are through allowing you to do it, are tremendously not fun. As a business they need to err on the side of caution. Look what Youtube went through with Viacom and some other content creators.

Also, I think your article says that to have a case against you for trademark infringement, they have to go after "everyone" who infringes, but I don't believe that is true, I think they only have to defend it, but i don't know exactly what that means or the extent to which it must be defended to be defended at all.

Also sports franchises are pretty ruthless. They will sue you in court and they will sue Twitter in court and they will win or it will cost you and twitter a lot of money and it's just not worth it.

Also, I believe the actual numbers are owned by the industry as well. You have to have written permission to reprint the statistics. If I remember correctly, according to the copyright blurb at the beginning of games, techincally, you aren't even supposed to talk about the game after the game!

It's crazy, but that's what happens when there's a lot of money at stake, people get crazy...

sachinag• 17 years ago

You're wrong about the stats of the game. NBA v. Motorola cleared up that stats - even real-time stats - are not an exhibition of the game and can be freely disseminated as they are reports of factual occurrences. First useful Google hit: http://lsolum.typepad.com/copyfutures/2004/09/several_of_my_... The sports leagues' disclaimers are empty nothingness.

IANAL, but I've been working on 1st Amendment stuff as a layperson since 1997.

pj2• 17 years ago

Thanks for pointing that out!

snorkel3• 17 years ago

Right or wrong, for Twitter it's not even worth the risk or effort to test if that is true or not. Google/YouTube operates the same way: killing the account and taking the PR griping is cheaper than paying lawyers to sort it out.

lacker2• 17 years ago

Actually I don't think this issue is clear legally. In NBA v. Motorola it was taken into account that Stats Inc gathered the statistics themselves which is not the case here. Plus at least in some jurisdictions there is the "hot news" doctrine that protects breaking news even though it is a fact. So the disclaimers are not empty nothingness, it is still a legal grey area.

e.g.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/16/the-ap-hot-news-and...

patio113• 17 years ago

Without warning Twitter shuts down... 650 accounts controlled by the same people.

You don't say.

RobbieStats3• 17 years ago

Because an account is some precious commodity?

patio113• 17 years ago

If it weren't, would we be having this discussion? Seems that you want it both ways, depending on whether you're discussing Twitter's obligations to you or your obligations to Twitter.

shabda2• 17 years ago

Imo, There is a valid reason for 650 accounts. Plus twitter is interesting because of 3rd party apps, so they should be responsive with support emails.

trickjarrett• 17 years ago

They definitely should be more responsive, their customer service department needs to be massively upsized. And a valid reason for 650 accounts is still invalidated by the fact that it goes directly against their TOS.

paul7986• 17 years ago

Obviously a way for Twitter to make money would allow developers to pay to create mass accounts for these types of utilities.

coglethorpe• 17 years ago

"Mass account creation - Ok, they got me on this one."

Yes, they did have you on that one. Thanks for playing.

ieatpaste• 17 years ago

In addition to the multiple accounts which break TOC, it might also be a direction in which they want to go with their "secret business models." This might be loosely supported by the trending topics added to the user pages, but this is largely due to my speculation.

didroe• 17 years ago

I thought the secret was that there is no business model. :)

ivankirigin• 17 years ago

Twitter is very open with how they like and don't like their system to be used. They are the most open company I can think of with their API. I can guarantee this wouldn't come as a surprise to the service maker. This is coming from someone who makes an application that heavily uses twitter.

snorkel3• 17 years ago

Aside from that Twitter's API is very unreliable. I wouldn't recommend putting Twitter API anywhere near the center of anyone's business plan. Again the lesson is: don't trust the cloud.

silencio• 17 years ago

I'm curious: did you at any point contact Twitter for their blessing (of your 650 accounts for this particular use)? I meant, before they started suspending your accounts? Or even before you created the accounts?

RobbieStats3• 17 years ago

Yes, I contacted their bizdev email alias back in November. I got no response.

brm• 17 years ago

And that my friends is why a business should never have all its eggs in one basket or platform if you will

andrewbadera• 17 years ago

Perhaps you should deal with the API staff and not the support staff. You're probably familiar with the dev list, right? Try contacting Doug Williams on this.

thej• 17 years ago

They have blocked my friends @f1 account too. http://veetrag.net/2009/05/04/twitter-suspends-f1/

cameldrv• 17 years ago

Since they post odds, this may be more about the wire wager act, which prohibits interstate transmission of sports gambling information.

Without Warning, Twitter Kills StatTweets

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