Stephen Fry reveals he attempted suicide in 2012

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-22782913

by rb2e • 13 years ago

274 95 13 years ago

bbc.co.uk

waltz2• 13 years ago

Drugs are technology

alan_cx• 13 years ago

there for......?

waltz2• 13 years ago

This was the first post in the thread. I guess I was trying to explain to myself why this was in the front page.

citricsquid• 13 years ago

The documentary mentioned about his bi-polar is available on Amazon (and without permission on Youtube) for anyone interested, it's a very good insight into bi-polar and depression, worth the 120 minutes:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0808482/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Fry:_The_Secret_Life_of...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stephen-Frys-Secret-Manic-Depressive...

raganwald• 13 years ago

This is an incredibly moving documentary. +1,000,000.

pyre2• 13 years ago

I saw the documentary a couple of years ago. Well worth a watch. (The Carrie Fisher interview ties in with all of the, "That's no snow! Carrie Fisher was snorting cocaine on the Hoth set!" articles that float around)

winter_blue• 13 years ago

When you use words like "bi-polar and depression" it gives the sense that this is a medical disease. And while speaking strictly, it is indeed a medical disease -- I want people to see the raw human factor in this.

Depression, for example, in my experience, and from what I've seen -- often has a cause; a rational, explainable cause (that the sufferer often isn't aware of). When you treat someone's depression as a "medical disease" like the cold or the flu, you are completely ignoring the human factor.

Many cases of depression can actually be solved without drugs -- by addressing the problem at the root of it. "Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy" by David D. Burns, goes into this. (http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Good-New-Mood-Therapy/dp/03808...)

I don't know why people ignore the real human factor when it comes to depression. Instead they resort to a bunch of drugs that do not address the root (psychological) cause of the depression, but rather just give some temporary fleeting relief.

tjtrapp• 13 years ago

Pills are easy... Aside from a 30 minute visit to the doc.

Addressing the root cause typically requires working with others over a period of time... and that work is oftentimes what people with depression want to avoid.

marquis• 13 years ago

The many many people in our lives suffering from a chemical/medical issue can not solve their problems with therapy alone. Depression is multi-factored and definitely partly chemical - maybe for some it's solved by spending more time in the sun but for many of our friends it is a serious clinical issue not to be mistaken as having a purely talk-it-out solution. Stephen is an excellent example here: he has the sheer intellect and forwardness of self-examination to know it can't be beat without looking at all factors and wouldn't presume to say that it's solved with drugs, or therapy, alone.

thisone• 13 years ago

mental illness is an illness where something has gone wrong with the body in the same way that cancer is an illness where something has gone wrong with the body. Stigmatizing it in any way is not useful. Telling people to "just be happy!" isn't useful.

anigbrowl2• 13 years ago

Temporary relief may be what is needed under many circumstances. I'm personally quite clear on the roots of my depression, but that doesn't make it easier to cope with. For some people it's a mystery or problem that once solved, ceases to be debilitating. For others it's an endocrine problem, best treated with drugs. For yet others, it is best treated with cognitive exercise. Each case is different and dismissing a whole class of clinical strategies is no better than treating those strategies as a panacea.

adrianbye2• 13 years ago

what is ignored (thanks to psychiatry being left wing, and trying to mitigate the downside rather than build on the upside) is that bipolar brings a lot of BENEFITS. when bipolar people are very hyper, they can achieve great things.

thats the reason why people with bipolar usually don't want to be medicated - the highs bring genius.. the problem are the lows which follow it.

average people don't make the big breakthroughs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_with_bipolar_dis...

gregorymichael2• 13 years ago

Are anti-depressants over prescribed? Sure. Are there cases where the root cause of depression is biochemical? Yes.

I've been on meds for bipolar for five years, and I see a therapist every week. The meds get me stable - like healing a broken broken leg - and the therapy is my personal trainer building me up to run the marathon. Neither would be as effective without the other, but in my case, if I could only have one, it'd be the meds.

solomatov2• 13 years ago

There are cases of depression, so called endogenous depression, which can't be cured in any other way than with medication.

DanBC5• 13 years ago

Fry has Bipolar Disorder, diagnosed in England.

This is a very different illness to depression. And depression has different forms.

Yes, talking therapies are powerful. But you seem to be making the mistake that a talking therapy isn't affecting brain chemistry, or that drugs are inherently bad.

Comments like yours are very frustrating. Do you talk about people ignoring the real human factor when we put a broken bone in a cast?

hvs• 13 years ago

Bipolar disorder cannot be solved with therapy. Additionally, clinical depression is different from situational depression. Yes, you are right, that many people would benefit from therapy in addition to drugs, but bipolar disorder, especially, is not a disease that responds to it. It is a chemical/biological disorder and needs to be treated as such.

edwkar2• 13 years ago

I roughly agree with your sentiment, but your last sentence is IMO a bit too rough with the "resort to a bunch of drugs" part.

Any psychiatrist worth his salt, will primarly prescribe drugs as a means to help people cope, while working on the actual underlying causes. Indeed, in many cases, using drugs in the treatment may be the only option to make the patient's day-to-day life bearable. Drugs may also be essential for allowing the treatment team to examine, possibly very problematic, underlying issues.

Also, a SSRI, for instance, can of course not "treat" someone of a clinical depression; you will virtually always need professional cause-oriented therapy to get better. Most patients know this, or will realize it as they experience how their meds work.

Finally, there are some mental disorders, and many individual cases, that require constant medication, despite of the quality of the other treatment given. For example, full-fleged bi-polar disorder, where a manic or a depressive episode may have very severe consequences.

rhizome• 13 years ago

As a counterpoint, I offer Robert Sapolsky, who most emphatically calls depression a disease:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc

vacri3• 13 years ago

Please stop spreading misinformation. There are many kinds of depression, and there are two significant camps - little-d depression, which is depressed mood from negative life events (missing the bus up to funerals) and big-d Depression, which has biological elements and is what people mean by 'clinical depression'.

joshhart• 13 years ago

I have read that book and it is indeed very good because it gives the reader tools to succeed and the clinical research proving that what we think and the way we think greatly influences our mood.

Dr. Burns stated that the methods often work best when used in conjunction with medication. Some people may be so far down the rabbit hole that medication is necessary to restore improper brain chemistry.

baby• 13 years ago

Are people really not aware nowadays that Depression is used wildly and can be a real neuro-disease?

Did you know they can surgically put a pacemaker in your brain to "treat" you?

I thought it was common knowledge.

andrewfelix• 13 years ago

"Depression, for example, in my experience, and from what I've seen..."

Your anecdotal observations shouldn't drive your understanding. Go read up on it. Suffering from mental illness myself I find your post quite offensive.

PeterisP• 13 years ago

Even in cases that can/should be solved by addressing a root problem, often you still want to apply drugs so that the patient doesn't, for example, kill himself in a down period between his/her second and third psychotherapy session.

stef25• 13 years ago

It IS a disease in the sense that it's an abnormal reaction to something.

iamshs• 13 years ago

Thank you for the documentary links. And it is admirable of Stephen Fry to come out and say that he attempted suicide. Someone close to me attempted one too, and this documentary puts another light on it. Thank you again. :)

andyhmltn• 13 years ago

Came here to post this. It's a great documentary that really made me like him a whole lot more.

supersaiyan• 13 years ago

its on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGDl6-lyfMY

waster• 13 years ago

Depression lies! And there's help out there. You are not alone.

Bravo to Stephen Fry for going public.

MrJagil• 13 years ago

The nature of this illness truly reveals itself when you can contrast the quotes from the article with his behaviour in a show like QI. Without knowing more about him you would presume him to be a very happy man.

My roommate suffers from bipolar disorder (and a lot of other stuff to boot), and honestly, it is as much a disease with as much rationale behind it as any physiological one. His comment about "arguing" with suicidals hit the right note.

ZoFreX• 13 years ago

When I "come out" to people I get this reaction a lot - people are genuinely surprised that a happy person can be depressed.

ShawnBird• 13 years ago

It is a little strange to think about. Most people experience some depression in their lives so things like chronic depression are easier to understand through your own experience.

It is strange to think that someone who is 'always so happy' gets depressed. Not that they are hiding that depression under their cheer but that the cheer and depression are genuine states that manifest very powerfully. It just isn't something that most people go through.

cjbprime• 13 years ago

Bipolar's a terrible disease -- around 30% of people with bipolar disorder attempt suicide at least once, and around 15% of people with it ultimately die from suicide.

So glad that Stephen Fry is still with us, and is continuing to speak out about mental illness so well.

DanBC5• 13 years ago

It's tempting to think that he's wealthy and working and so this disclosure is easy to make, because it won't affect his work life.

In theory we have anti-discrimination laws here, but it's hard to prove that someone hasn't employed you because of your mental health problems. And actors usually need to be insured when they're doing a film. It's hard for some actors to get that insurance, expensive, because of past mental illness.

Stephen Fry (among others in some UK media) is doing good work at destigmatizing mental illness.

pyre2• 13 years ago

This particular disclosure is new, but he's been open about being bi-polar for a while, and IIRC about at least one past suicide attempt (see the documentary mentioned elsewhere).

daeken3• 13 years ago

I'm not wealthy or well-connected, but I'm "coming out" about mental illness myself. I've talked about it at length on HN (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2043019), but I'm working on a blog post now that talks about this in detail, with the goal of actually opening a dialogue about mental illness in the tech industry. You can read what I have so far here: https://gist.github.com/daeken/8bc79e53311d2e32a981 It still needs a lot of work, and my mother (a mental health practitioner by trade) wrote a section with extensive resources that I haven't yet integrated, but it's coming along.

I've been getting better lately, but for a few months I was the worst I've ever been in my life; not being able to talk publicly about it for fear of discrimination and the general mental health stigma makes the loneliness... crushing. I'm hoping this will help others take the first step to helping themselves and others.

simonbarker87• 13 years ago

Hopefully this will bring the issue of mental health back to the fore AND make sure that funding for the appropriate NHS and outpatient services does not get tampered with.

DanBC5• 13 years ago

Mental Health services have always been underfunded in England.

Waiting lists[1] for some forms of talking therapy (for people in secondary care, with severe and enduring MH problems) can be very long. In Gloucestershire there's[2] a max 6 week wait for assessment and then 18 week wait for treatment to start. This is for people being treated in the community, as an alternative to hospitalisation. And Glos is pretty good at this. Some places there's waits of over a year.

Luckily there's something called "IAPT" (Improved Access to Psychological Therapies) which is ring-fenced[3] funding to provide evidence based (usually cognitive behavioural therapy) in short courses (12 weeks) to people coming from primary care, but not in secondary care. Usually you can self refer for assessment. You might need to ask your GPs surgery for "IAPT" or "PCAT" (primary care and assessment team), because some of them don't appear to know it exists.

[1] be careful with terminology here. I'm using it wrong. Waiting list is a defined term with a specific meaning. If you're asking a local health board about the length of time people have before they start treatment you want to avoid use of the words "waiting list".

[2] These times were accurate last time I asked, about 2 years ago. These times are significantly better than they were 5 years ago, and the local trust is still working to reduce those maximum times.

[3] Maybe I'm wrong about the ring-fencing of the funding?

gregorymichael2• 13 years ago

I have bipolar and ADHD. I've been speaking on it at tech conferences this year [1]. Recently we started devpressed.com [2], a forum where the tech community can talk about depression.

We need to destigmatize mental illness so that our friends and coworkers aren't ashamed to ask for help. There are a lot more people going through this than you think. If you're struggling, and don't have anyone to talk to, check out devpressed, or contact me.

[1] http://confreaks.com/videos/2341-mwrc2013-devs-and-depressio...

[2] http://www.devpressed.com

ghswa6• 13 years ago

Thanks very much for posting those links, I too am bipolar. Unfortunately I'll have to put off checking them out properly until another time.

Until last December I'd been stable for around 5 years. Now I'm putting together an account of my health over the last 6 months for the benefit of my department's special circumstances committee. With any luck I'll make it through to the next year of my degree.

Thank you for your efforts, I hope to be able to contribute similarly when I'm stable again.

I'll forward this to my wife[1] as I expect she'll find them of interest too (she's also bipolar).

[1] http://www.time-to-change.org.uk/blog/academic-life-mental-i...

edwkar2• 13 years ago

Devpressed seems like a really good initiative! Looking at HN's submission history, and from personal experience, I believe such a forum is much needed. As a student or professional struggling with mental illness, having someone to speak to that knows your world, is extremely valuable. Keep up the good work!

eksith• 13 years ago

I don't even want to imagine a day Stephen Fry isn't around. What a horrible, horrible void there would be where he stood.

The insidiousness of this disease is in how well it hides itself in plain sight in many cases. And how terrifyingly easy it is to fall to it.

  He said there is "no reason" for someone wanting to take their own life.

  "There is no 'why', it's not the right question. There's no reason. If there were a reason for it, you could reason someone out of it, and you could tell them why they shouldn't take their own life," he said.

koningrobot• 13 years ago

Stephen Fry should speak for himself. People can have very good reasons to want to die. Reasons that are so good that, besides outweighing the value that their life has to them, still have enough oomph to carry one over the high doorstep of fear and pain that comes with taking one's own life.

Life is not infinitely valuable. Its goods can be outweighed by bads. People who really just want to go should be respected and we should help them get out of here.

shedside• 13 years ago

He’s not talking about suicide in general, but suicide resultant from a particular kind of depression.

magicalist• 13 years ago

We don't have the full interview here for context, so I don't think either of us should be absolute on this, but I would guess that he's specifically speaking within the bounds of suicide rooted in mental illness. In fact, I would place very good odds that Stephen Fry would highlight the issues inherent in assisted suicide but still support it on the whole.

icebraining• 13 years ago

Fry said that in a very specific context, you shouldn't assume he meant it as an absolute statement.

dwc• 13 years ago

That's substantially different than suicide due to physiological imbalances. It's fine to raise awareness of that separate issue, but let's not conflate these things.

masklinn• 13 years ago

> People can have very good reasons to want to die.

You seem to have missed context here. The context being him talking about his depression. He's not talking about suicide in general, he's talking about suicide of the clinically depressed.

vacri3• 13 years ago

I suffer from mild clinical depression, and know first-hand that one of the things it does is fuck with how you mentally weigh things. Things of no importance when you're clear of mind take on momentous importance when you're affected. This 'let the ill take their own lives, it's what they want' is lazy and suggests that you're not actually familiar with the issues involved.

publicfig• 13 years ago

Glad to see a major figure going public about his struggle with mental illness. Though I don't think that those with a "celebrity status" should be pressured into sharing this information, let alone expected to do so, it's always comforting for me to see people slowly start to release their stigmas with discussing mental illness, especially on a personal level. As someone who has suffered from mental illness, it would do so much to be able to talk to others without worrying about the reactions and dismissal that comes from so many people I've encountered.

arankine• 13 years ago

I was actually at this podcast recording (its great by the way, check it out). It was the most human discussion I've heard for a long time. It really struck home that people assume so much of someone because they are on TV. He is a great guy with many problems, a great ambassador for taking the stigma out of mental illness.

corin_• 13 years ago

> The actor and comedian attempted suicide after walking out of the West End play Cell Mates in 1995 - an event he recounted in a documentary for BBC Two called The Secret Life of the Manic Depressive.

He also attempted suicide as a teenager (I think 16/17 but don't quite recall), although in his (first) autobiography he describes it as a childish rebellion to upset his parents. Therefore I wonder if it's happened 3 times or potentially many more.

Incidentally, both his autobiographies are well worth reading. As are his novels.

sgt• 13 years ago

I think these suicide attempts are more of a "cry for help", because clearly he really sucks at committing suicide. I'm really glad he is, to be honest. Wishing him all the best.

MarkPNeyer• 13 years ago

i've struggled with bipolar for years. it's not easy. after my startup was sold in an asset purchase and i was left with nothing but the credit card debt i'd accumuluated thinking i was going to make it big, i crashed hard. i got all tangled up in a huge web of internal metaphors and was in and out of mental hospitals - 3 stints in two months. i'm getting better now, and it's good to have people like stephen fry trying to destigmatize the illness.

techaddict009• 13 years ago

Recently Indian Bollywood actress Jiah Khan had also committed suicide. This shows that film industry are more into stress and depression.

anigbrowl2• 13 years ago

No it doesn't. It's just that people in the film industry (or specifically, actors) are famous an so their suicides a) get more attention and b) seem more surprising, because successful film actors are stereotypically glamorous, wealthy, gregarious and so on. I've worked in film for about a decade and don't feel the rate of mental illness there is statistically so different from other industries. As someone with ADD who is also subject to depression I've taken some time to think about this. The stereotype may arise from the fact that the film industry is more tolerant of personal idiosyncrasies and eccentricity than other fields of employment.

hawkharris• 13 years ago

We need more people like Fry to speak up about their experiences with bipolar disorder. It's widespread yet stigmatized because not everyone understands it or knows how to seek treatment.

I was diagnosed bipolar as a kid and spent over three years in a locked disciplinary boarding school. At first I was reluctant to take medication because of the stigma associated with it, but taking lithium changed my life.

I've been completely stable for 9 years, taking the same low dose.

It's really hard to find the right mix of medication and / or behavioral changes because every person is different. But it is possible for people with bipolar to find balance, stability and happiness. I think that speaking up about our personal experiences helps shatter the stigma while supporting families who are still considering different treatment options.

skore• 13 years ago

At first, I read "Stephen Fry reveals he will attempt suicide in [year]". My mind racing as to "why, why would he ever want to do that?".

After having understood the actual title, I'm now unsure which of the two is more confusing or unsettling. I suppose equally so. This world would miss an incredible human being.

There was a deeply insightful interview with him where he spoke about self pity and how destructive it is[0]. I hope to some day meet him and thank him for that. As I would love to just thank him for openly being himself, in public.

I admire his ability to explain a concept that is dear to him. He will lay the scene in your head by touching of various points (which is exquisitely exploited in his host capacity on QI) and then, with sudden, stern force drill the most amazing and brutal observation into your skull that makes a lightbulb explode right above your head.

He will start speaking and briefly mention what he is talking about. Then he will turn all chitty-chattery as you are accustomed to, cause it's Stephen. And then he just ravages you with this piece of gold and while you're still recovering from the blow to your brain, he will return to Stephen mode, picking up the pieces, holding your hand, asking whether you're OK and making everything good again.

I would walk right up to him, wherever I can get a hold of him, tell him how much I admire him and weep in public, right then and there, without hesitation. Then I will tell him that I haven't done anything close to that in years. I should really find out whether he will be close to where I live anytime soon.

[0] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_2kelqYz_o

0xdeadbeefbabe• 13 years ago

Thanks for posting that video. Seems to me he's an expert because of his struggles, and this supports the idea of learning more from failure than success.

itsmefirsttimer• 13 years ago

I'm not sure how to message Mr. fry. But i wish I could tell him that his weakness gives me strength. I'm not alone

bangla32• 13 years ago

I always thought people want to suicide all the time but are too shameful to confess. First time I attempted suicide was at 12, when my fathers divorced and my mother left. Then I had the misfortune to be the classic tiny nerdy good guy, always in love with some girl. Young girls can be cruel. Suicide was always in my mind from 15 to about 25. But it is not a dreadful feeling, in fact at that times, it can be very liberating. To think everything has a very simple solution, I saw death like the end of suffering and the beginning of peace, whats not to love about that? Suicide thoughts always comforted me in those sad moments, like a pressure valve. Nothing can be so bad that death is not a fix for it.

But its easier to think about it than to do it, that's for sure. Something changed in my mind about the time I had 30. Never had those feelings again. But I always will remember the times I contemplated death as moments of hope in between desperation.

erre• 13 years ago

And, of course, he's now being hounded by the press. From https://twitter.com/stephenfry/status/342569662661394432:

Grrr: door-stepped by the press this morning. Said all there was to be said in the podcast with [Richard K Herring] - intrusion makes 1 withdraw

to be expected, perhaps, but not really helpful.

Stephen Fry reveals he attempted suicide in 2012

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