Lessons Learned Working from Coffee Shops

http://blog.sqwiggle.com/post/47026109259/8-lessons-learned-from-2-years-working-from-coffee

by bleachtree • 13 years ago

41 54 13 years ago

blog.sqwiggle.com

abraininavat• 13 years ago

Your advice is... buy something? Bring the stuff you need? This is the blog equivalent of Fox & Friends

Paul_D_Santana• 13 years ago

The "Advertise On Your Laptop" advice is a terrific idea.

I really like the back of iWaffles' laptop, and the suggestion to put your Twitter handle on there too (or website etc).

As to your comment on the validity of this article:

When I read an article or a book, I focus on getting something of value out of it. If I can gain at least one good idea that I can use for the rest of my life, then it was a worthwhile. Focus on the positive. It will change your life.

flavorcountry• 13 years ago

I know what you're getting at - but it's a good reminder nevertheless. I'm talking specifically about the point of having offline options, like graphic design, emails, offline coding.

tommoor2• 13 years ago

I wasn't going to include the "Buy something" point, but did you read that Yelp review? Jeez, apparently people need reminding...

ja27• 13 years ago

I'm not a coffee drinker and really don't like the smell of burnt coffee. My solution? Local libraries. Mine recently started allowing drinks (with a sealed lid like a bottle) and simple snacks and some even have vending machines now. It's often me, the librarians, and a few retirees until school lets out. I sometimes work from a nearby sports bar with good wifi, but the 19th hole bro crowd gets pretty obnoxious.

billpaetzke2• 13 years ago

Try getting a tea instead. That's what I do. All the cafes I've been to have tea--yes, some have a better selection than others.

Black and green tea are caffeinated; herbal ones are not. You can have it hot or iced. With or without sweetener, with or without milk. And it's good for you (unsweetened).

lostlogin• 13 years ago

Burnt coffee isn't nice, but the smell of fresh coffee is amazing (for me) - it beats fresh bread, the smell of brewery's and the smell of warm oil from a classic car engine bay. The only thing that comes close I think, is the smell of the oil (which dries like a varnish) which I did my floors with. www.naturalhouse.co.nz/shop/java-classic-resin-oil/

ruswick3• 13 years ago

I find his point about "overstaying your welcome" to be of significance. What constitutes such an intrusion? Is there some sort of universal time limit? Is it commensurate with the amount of money one spends?

I've always operated by the tenet that, if they take my money, I am justified in staying for as for long as is necessary. This seems to be the generally accepted precedent, as I've seen an immeasurable number of people purchase a single item and spend an entire day working. This is especially true of local, boutique coffee shops, at which the patrons seem to be less transient than those of, say, a Starbucks. Personally, I generally purchase a single espresso for $1.50, add milk to attempt to simulate the taste of an actual cappuccino (at one third of the cost), and stay for between three and six hours. This seems to be standard operating procedure for many people. Are extended stays stigmatized elsewhere?

petsos• 13 years ago

I'm sorry to break this to you, but most people would consider you an asshole.

ben10402• 13 years ago

Personally, if I am not buying something at least every 90 minutes-2 hours, I feel like I am a freeloader and I get out. I hate it when I go to a coffee shop and every seat is taken by someone on a laptop with no evidence they have spent money there recently.

One of my local coffee shops gives 2 hours free wifi with purchase. If I plan on sticking around all day then I consider it that I am paying for wifi in 2 hour increments and getting a free coffee or food item out of it.

specialist• 13 years ago

I call this "paying my rent". I'm HAPPY to pay for services. I want my local businesses to prosper.

There's an opportunity here. Starbucks popularized the notion "third place"; even if they didn't quite execute, many others did.

If a cafe served real food (not just treats), even prepackaged, and sported a printer (charging per copy), I'd never leave.

In my neighborhood, there's a postbox + copy center joint with unused square footage right next to an espresso cafe filled with laptop campers and scarce seating. Both have plenty of customers. But a combo would rule.

rdouble• 13 years ago

Are extended stays stigmatized elsewhere?

Yes. Try ordering a side of bacon then covering it with your own couple slices of bread to simulate the taste of an actual sandwich (at one third of the cost) and see if you'll be allowed to hang around for three to six hours at any restaurant.

ruswick3• 13 years ago

If the restaurant provides free bread (and a large portion of them do), I think it's entirely permissible to combine them. The coffee shops make the their condiments available so that people can use them. Why does the milk exist if not to be put in one's coffee?

twoodfin• 13 years ago

A rule of thumb: If the place is busy enough that your chair would otherwise be occupied by someone spending more money than you, you should consider moving on. There's no harm in filling empty space, but no coffee shop is going to survive on tables full of $1.50 do-it-yourself cappuccino drinkers. (Seriously?)

ruswick3• 13 years ago

I think that's fair. Honestly, I tend not to spend time in shops that are at capacity, as it tends to be quite loud and difficult to maneuver. Certainly, the crowdedness will change the calculus. But, in cases where the shop is not close to capacity, my seat has effectively no marginal value, so I'm not costing the shop anything...

pacaro• 13 years ago

First: tenet not tenant; accepted not excepted.

$1.50 espresso for 3-6 hours feels a little like you are taking advantage of the coffee shop. There is always going to be some variation, but I would prefer to be a customer that helps a business--that provides a service that I like--stay profitable rather than one that helps put them out of business.

If/when times are hard it is good that you can do this, but otherwise if you can afford to support a business that is supporting you then order the cappuccino!

cail• 13 years ago

Agreed. Personally, whenever I study or do work in a coffee shop I try to regularly make purchases.

I usually end up averaging between $1 and $2 per hour which I think is completely reasonable for the space, drinks, snacks, and internet access. I'll ramp it up a bit if they get busy and if they stay busy for very long (30 min. or longer) I will usually leave.

rdtsc• 13 years ago

Basically the rule is "don't be a dick". Hard to quantify. I've seen coffee shops around college campuses close, because students would come in as a study group, buy $3 worth of coffee, then hog the best seats for 4 hours. Customers come in, no place to sit, turn around and leave. This happens over and over. During the busy evening or morning hours. Yeah after a while the barista can try to politely ask you to move or leave, but if they reach that point, it is already kind of unpleasant both for you and for them.

If the place is almost empty, you'd actually be doing them a favor probably by sitting in there to make the place look popular and happening (those that don't know the place might skip it as well if they see it completely empty).

supercoder• 13 years ago

Are you serious, a $1.50 purchase and you'll stay for more than half the day ? No business would be happy with someone doing that.

The rule of 'give any amount of money however small and stay for as long as I want' is not a good one to live by.

sliverstorm2• 13 years ago

If we keep going down that road, we'll wind up with folks telling us, "Well, I don't like coffee so I just dropped a nickel in the tip jar at 8AM and stayed until closing. If I didn't know better, I'd say they seemed annoyed; did I do something wrong?"

bromley2• 13 years ago

A simple thought experiment: what if everyone did like me...?

Say there are 20 tables, and it's open for 12 hours a day. Every customer spends $1.50 and hogs a table for 4 hours. Assuming constant full capacity (a very optimistic assumption), each table has 3 customers a day and brings in $4.50. Which means the shop as a whole brings in a maximum of $90 a day.

In other words: if everyone did like you the coffee shop would be bust in no time.

ericbieller• 13 years ago

I would agree except that most people come in for coffee and then leave.

doktrin• 13 years ago

> I am justified in staying for as for long as is necessary... I generally purchase a single espresso for $1.50, add milk to attempt to simulate the taste of an actual cappuccino (at one third of the cost), and stay for between three and six hours.

Frankly, I thought this was satire.

sliverstorm2• 13 years ago

Coffee shops are not charities. How much do you think that $1.50 coffee costs them to make? Let's speculate $0.50. So the shop nets $1.00 and you take a chair for six hours.

But wait- you are using electricity and WiFi. You cost them money. Electricity is cheap and if they have reasonable internet service, so is internet- but now they aren't even making a dollar. Just how much profit do you think a shop can generate at $1 per 6 hours for a chair? If they have twenty chairs, that's maybe $30-40 gross for the day?

era86• 13 years ago

If there are other paying customers, the place is full, and you don't intend on buying anything within the next 30 mins to an hour, leave.

k-mcgrady• 13 years ago

Spending $1.50 and staying up to 6 hours is what I would consider over staying your welcome. I would generally buy a coffee (or other item) at $3 every 1.5 hours. That seems more reasonable to me. It might be different if your coffee shop is empty all day but if you're there when it's busy taking up a seat for 6 hours for $1.50 doesn't seem right.

monitron• 13 years ago

Bringing a little power strip can make you the most popular person at the coffee shop, especially if you're sitting at one of those long tables with one measly outlet nearby.

tommoor2• 13 years ago

great tip!

w1ntermute3• 13 years ago

Does anyone else find it painful working at coffee shops? Non-ergonomic chairs, weird table heights, poor posture inherent to using laptops (no external monitor). I'd much rather work from home or an office.

thebear2• 13 years ago

I too find this to be a problem. So let's add this piece of advice to the author's list: watch out for the least unergonomic chair/table combinations, and memorize the good ones. I know of some decent ones that I keep returning to.

billpaetzke2• 13 years ago

I find it's worth the poor ergonomics because it makes life interesting during work. I do it 1-3 hours per day to mix things up socially--maybe meet a girl or run into someone I know or (like last weekend) run into a celebrity. Something different happens every time.

kayoone3• 13 years ago

Agreed. Doing that on a regular basis for a few years cant really be good for your posture.

Besides, i find the coffee shops in the city are usually very cramped, lots of noise and young parents/babies, mediocre wifi. I enjoy working from a coworking space and i also enjoy a proper working enviroment with a beefy workstation, 2 external displays, people around that are developers vs young hipster moms, stable fast internet etc. I go to the coffee shop to take a break and well, grab a coffee.

thebear2• 13 years ago

The hubbub of big city coffeehouses is indeed not conducive to hacking. If you have the luxury of being able to move around, it's worth checking out coffeehouses in small towns. My current favorite in Northern California is the Curly Wolf in Nevada City. Exquisite interior decoration, great people, quiet atmosphere, open til midnight Sun through Thu, til 2am Friday and Saturday. And if you're willing to travel farther, you can even still find hacker's paradise, like the Shot in the Dark in Tucson, AZ: open 24/7. Trust me, it's quiet in there at 3am.

pasbesoin• 13 years ago

I find the table to be at the wrong height for typing. Many of today's laptops have very large (as in, sticking out front from the keyboard) palm rests -- so large, they end up pressing into my wrists which are bent because the table is higher than optimal typing height.

A partial workaround for this can be to prop the back of the laptop up with a book. Being careful not to block any critical ventilation slots with the book.

I also find the noise can be distracting, unless its a really busy cafe, where all the conversations can blend into a sort of "white noise". Even then, that noise tires me out after an hour or two.

dangoldin2• 13 years ago

How is this in the top 5 of HN? Most of the points seem pretty obvious.

gojomo• 13 years ago

Yes, standalone it is banal - but it's interesting as a conversation-starter, to see what habits and tips other HNers will share.

dangoldin2• 13 years ago

Fair enough. I do find that depending on the title I will sometimes read comments first.

doug4hn2• 13 years ago

I find that more people aren't even going into the coffee shop. They just park outside close enough to get a good wifi signal and relax in their car or van for hours on end.

ultimoo• 13 years ago

But what's the idea in that? People work out of coffee shops because they need a social place with other human beings around. Almost everyone has an internet at home, so they could always work form home rather than being cooped up in a car waiting for the cops to come around asking.

doug4hn2• 13 years ago

Some are just stuck because they can't go elsewhere because of traffic jams and they don't want to go inside because it's too crowded or too many people waiting in line for coffee (or to go to bathroom).

Afraid I've never heard of anyone being accosted by officers about hanging out in the parking lot inside their car w/ their computer. Who is to say who's wifi they are using anyway (especially in a tight area where you have multiple choices for wifi)?

buildnship• 13 years ago

This has to be one of the most useless articles i've ever read...

obamasupporter• 13 years ago

truth

wolfowitz• 13 years ago

You must be new to the internet then ;)

rammark• 13 years ago

Also, make sure your Internet connection is secure. Set up a VPN (or buy from a provider) to be 100% safe.

Lessons Learned Working from Coffee Shops

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