Judge temporarily saves girl facing suspension for refusing to wear RFID tag

http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/11/23/judge-temporarily-saves-teenage-girl-facing-suspension-for-refusing-to-wear-rfid-tag-in-school/?fromcat=all

by Quekster • 14 years ago

100 100 14 years ago

thenextweb.com

bravoyankee• 14 years ago

I'm not sure staying in that public school system is a victory. She already won when she courageously stood up for what she believes in.

snapdata2• 14 years ago

Plenty of people stand up for what they believe in and go unnoticed. She is doing the right thing. If she stepped down now, the program would be enforced without resistance.

nateabele2• 14 years ago

Given the hackability of RFID, wouldn't it be faster, cheaper, and more effective to just pull some hijinx and make the school look like idiots? Also, women in tech! :-)

TazeTSchnitzel• 14 years ago

Something that came to mind is if you put an RFID detector near toilet doors and visibly show a count of how many people it thinks are in there, you could easily demonstrate what a terrible violation of privacy it is.

Edit: You could also show who and how often, but I'm scared you'd be arrested...

user24• 14 years ago

Not only how many but who, and how often they go.

chimeracoder• 14 years ago

I think it's time for one of these students to start a webpage which displays how much time each student spends in the restroom. Searchable, and indexed by a person's real first + last name.

If that doesn't make the school realize how appalling this violation of privacy is, then they're too far gone for anything!

afterburner2• 14 years ago

Then they just suspend you for that.

grecy3• 14 years ago

I'll bet that's illegal, and they'd be all over you for a "privacy violation".

vaadu• 14 years ago

Student’s Social Security number? Why does the school need the student's SSN? Why not just brand the kids?

snapdata2• 14 years ago

I came up with this great idea, maybe we could just tattoo permanent identification on them so that they're easy to control. Perhaps a number...

grecy3• 14 years ago

Do kids even have SSN's?

In the countries I've lived and worked in, you don't get such a number until you want to file a tax return, so usually somewhere around age 15 (depending on the country)

elwin• 14 years ago

Yes, SSN's get assigned shortly after birth.

Steveism2• 14 years ago

“Regimes in the past have always started with the schools, where they develop a compliant citizenry,” Whitehead continued. “These ‘Student Locator’ programs are ultimately aimed at getting students used to living in a total surveillance state where there will be no privacy, and wherever you go and whatever you text or email will be watched by the government.”

This raises a very valid concern. Human beings aren't cattle. Contrary to what many high school administrators might think, teenagers deserve the right to not be treated as such. If children are taught to be complacent with their privacy that can absolutely extend into adulthood. It would be a shame to raise a generation of Americans who support the idea that they are not trustworthy and therefore subject to probationary measures.

jvdh• 14 years ago

"Human beings aren't cattle."

Approaching an airport security control a while back where security agents where shouting "Remove your shoes, belts and jackets, and move along!" repeatedly gave me the distinct impression that the TSA strongly disagrees with you.

Steveism2• 14 years ago

That's for sure. It's no wonder why they're so hated in society.

schnaars2• 14 years ago

This is a great point, but raises issues around the entire US public education system that often times crosses the line of babysitting vs. education (I know nothing about this school).

Managing a bunch of 15 - 19 YO's is pretty challenging and as schools continue to get their budget raised or cut, based on attendance, it will be more important to manage attendance vs. GPA / performance. Having kids safely in school, with butt in seat in class, will be continue to be a driving KPI.

Human beings aren't cattle, but an education system built around preparing kids for a 9 - 5, factory job, is essentially a cattle farm.

dmix• 14 years ago

> Having kids safely in school, with butt in seat in class, will be continue to be a driving KPI.

Source? All of my years in school have taught me that (unwilling) attendance != comprehension of material.

jivatmanx2• 14 years ago

Why should all of the children who are in school voluntarily have their entire learning experience disrupted by the kid who keeps being forced back into school by a truant officer?

PakG1• 14 years ago

“These ‘Student Locator’ programs are ultimately aimed at getting students used to living in a total surveillance state where there will be no privacy, and wherever you go and whatever you text or email will be watched by the government.”

Out of curiosity, are you more afraid of the government having that goal and enabling that environment or Facebook/Google/Foursquare/etc? Why? I think this is an interesting discussion.

afterburner2• 14 years ago

Facebook can't throw you in jail is one big difference.

eCa3• 14 years ago

You can opt out of Facebook/Google/Foursquare/etc, you can't opt out from your government.

philwelch13• 14 years ago

Judge Whitehead must have never stepped into an office building in the last 10 years. RFID-enabled ID badges are standard at offices around the world and schools are lagging behind if anything.

4ad• 14 years ago

Your comment only proves OPs point more clearly. This is normal because we do it.

ScottBurson• 14 years ago

Ah, but it's one thing to have it done by an employer with which one has voluntarily entered into an agreement; it's quite another to have it done by the government.

fleitz• 14 years ago

Perhaps it's time the school district brought back the flag salute to better illustrate the relation it wishes to create between citizens and their state.

grecy3• 14 years ago

As a foreigner, I was shocked to see kids recite the pledge of allegiance when I first came to America.

Symmetry• 14 years ago

You know, my understanding is that when the form of our modern US school system was imported from Prussia many of the people advocating it were praising it's ability to turn out the sort of regimented, disciplined people required to staff factories.

tjaerv• 14 years ago

John Taylor Gatto has written extensively on this in his books "Dumbing Us Down" and "The Underground History of American Education". For a synopsis, see e.g. this transcript of a speech he gave:

http://4brevard.com/choice/Public_Education.htm

schnaars2• 14 years ago

I'm not sure I see the difference between this program and a company that distributes a similar system for employees to track all the same information?

jivatmanx2• 14 years ago

Employment is voluntary, and in most contexts minors aren't capable of consent to contracts.

betterunix3• 14 years ago

Minors are more easily indoctrinated into accepting that sort of thing. Employers who do this are being just as antisocial and psychopathic as this school district; the difference is that adults are mature enough to say, "This is not right," whereas children will grow up thinking, "This is how the world works, I better accept it."

philwelch13• 14 years ago

I don't know if you've ever worked at a company that used ID badges, but I don't know anyone who's refused employment over the issue.

antonID• 14 years ago

"Employers who do this are being just as antisocial and psychopathic as this school district"

Because using rfid badges to unlock doors at an office building/control and log access to server rooms, etc is a psychopathic and antisocial thing to do

babblefrog• 14 years ago

Well, for one thing, the school is an arm of government, not a private party. We allow private parties to do all sorts of things we don't allow governments to do.

freehunter6• 14 years ago

But it's a magnet school which means the student is choosing to be there. She could attend the public school that does not have RFID readers.

no_fans_please2• 14 years ago

I must say, I'm extremely worried about the USA, and this article demonstrates why.

Should we really commend someone for being unable to tell the difference between an electronic component & radio transmission system, and the magical 'mark of the beast'?

I'm also pretty sure that forcing people to wear tags is going to be overturned by a judge on the point of religious freedom, not based on a common sense decision.

And so we're overturning a practical cost saving practicality because:

1) One person believes in magical symbols, and can't tell an electronic component from magic.

2) Some people (commenters in this article) believe we're all magical special snowflakes that should never be treated as a 'group', despite the practicalities of dealing with a large group of people at the same time.

Now all we need is for a bunch of nudists to decide that clothes are the mark of the beast. Or concert goers to say that tickets are a mark of the beast. Or flight-attendents to decide that passports are a mark of the beast. Or Hacker News commenters to decide that login details are the mark of the beast.

Where does the insanity stop?

johndavidback• 14 years ago

You mention 'cost saving practicalities' several times in your comment, however you haven't mentioned any. I'd be interested to hear them.

no_fans_please2• 14 years ago

I think you've missed the point of my commentary, if you think that's key here. Neither you nor I have access to that information; the school board, teachers, government workers, and parent representatives do, and they made a combined choice to implement this.

They could be wrong (and they have been before, of course) - but this family isn't arguing that. They are arguing on religious and privacy grounds.

Reductio in absurdum: take the "I won't do it because it's the mark of the beast" to it's next level (hacker news comments, library membership, news articles, theaters), and you have a dysfunctional society.

dchichkov• 14 years ago

I think that this girl can tell electronic components from magic perfectly well. It is you, who is unable to understand what she is saying.

Yes, she is using language with religious roots and very expressive 'mark of the beast' phrase. But these are just words, part of the language and culture. Fact that she uses them doesn't make her stupid or insane.

pavel_lishin• 14 years ago

I hesitate to use the words "stupid" or "insane", but she literally believes that a piece of plastic with some microchips is the work of an evil magical being who wants to wait until she dies and then torment her, based on something that sounds like a mistranslated mushroom trip.

anon987• 14 years ago

Am I the only one who thought technology was awesome while I was growing up but now it's just getting scary and creepy?

eCa3• 14 years ago

Technology is amoral, its uses are not.

PacketNinja• 14 years ago

This is crap. How many of us have to where some I similar at work? Don't suspend her for not wearing it, just keep her out if class if she doesn't check in with it. Her attendance will falter in the system and she'll be expelled for lack of attendance. This is not big brother, its what every sane parent wants to know: where is my kid?

crpatino• 14 years ago

I am sure every sane parent also wants to know "who else knows where my kid is" and "with which other third parties this someone else may (knowingly or otherwise) share that information".

shinratdr• 14 years ago

> How many of us have to where some I similar at work?

Those with broken souls or those that work in high-security institutions? This is hardly the average experience in an office FFS.

> This is not big brother, its what every sane parent wants to know: where is my kid?

You're joking right? This is completely big brother, and in my mind sane and endlessly controlling aren't compatible concepts. Indicting every other parent who doesn't want to ChildTracker(TM) their kids as insane is by far the most ridiculous part of your comment.

Wanting to know where you kid is at all times and going to invasive lengths to gather that information are two completely different things. If your child is out and unaccounted for, you should be worried. You shouldn't be checking their GPS tracker on your phone to gain that peace of mind. Sane parents have another key skill: self control.

It's a disgusting invasion of privacy, akin to ransacking your child's room to check for undesirable items. Feel free to do it, just don't be surprised when nobody visits you at the home in 20 years. You broke that bond of trust and respect a long time ago and it won't just suddenly re-appear.

philwelch13• 14 years ago

So what does this girl do when she grows up and wants to do things like get a job, use public transit, drive across a toll bridge, or get a passport? RFID is just part of the world now and it's not entirely clear why schools should be any different.

logn• 14 years ago

Can't they do what my employers have always done? Make you swipe in at the door. That would earn their revenue from the state while not creating a panopticon.

philwelch13• 14 years ago

I'm pretty sure that's all this is.

warmwaffles6• 14 years ago

The RFID tags are used for attendance tracking and other various tasks. ALL of the schools in the Bexar county area have students who have to wear ID tags on their shirts. The gang problems here are pretty high, they don't want people that look like students to just walk in and start problems. True, it wont stop a student from just handing an id card to another person to walk around in, but the teacher will record the student as absent and the office will see where the student is if they are in school.

Checkpoints aren't near the bathrooms, but they are in the halways and the last time I heard, they were in the rooms as well.

This is also a test by only these two schools. If it passes, they will use them in the entire county, otherwise they will abandon the project all together.

I don't necessarily believe that she should be using the "Mark of the Beast" excuse. But this does cut REALLY close to invasion of privacy.

orenjacob• 14 years ago

As this gets rolled out to the whole district, has anyone looked into how this plan meshes with COPPA? Seems like a very significant amount of PII will be collected for under-13 year olds on internet connected servers. At the same time, parents are legally compelled to send their kids to school and students are legally compelled to attend. Therefore, how can there be informed consent when there is no choice being offered, since one cannot opt out?

Judge temporarily saves girl facing suspension for refusing to wear RFID tag

Related Stories