Americans want heat pumps – but high electricity prices may get in the way

https://theconversation.com/americans-want-heat-pumps-but-high-electricity-prices-may-get-in-the-way-273981

by PaulHoule • 5 months ago

35 53 5 months ago

Electricity prices have gone up due to datacenters as well as neglected grid infrastructure needing investment. Natural gas prices are going up because of LNG export infrastructure causing US consumers to compete against global LNG consumers for fuel to heat, as well as domestic electrical generation demand. Pick your poison.

Electricity prices might come down over time (renewables push down generation costs), natural gas prices won’t due to global demand for it.

melling• 5 months ago

What happened to cheap home solar with batteries?

onlyhumans• 5 months ago

You don’t really make that much electricity in the winter when you need the heat

abracadaniel• 5 months ago

Installation costs dominate the price. I check every few years, and while the hardware is down to about $5k for me, cost for installation remained $45k-$50k. Which is where it’s been for years. Makes diy very attractive though.

SilverElfin• 5 months ago

I haven’t paid attention to the change in my utility prices but my natural gas furnace is much cheaper for heating than my electric heat pump (I have both and my thermostat can pick). I believe our local electricity is almost fully from renewables already.

Figs• 5 months ago

The price of electricity where I am in California is pretty cheap for the energy itself -- I pay about $20/mo for generation -- but the cost for electricity delivery is absolutely fucking insane. It costs me $90 for "delivery" of that $20 worth of electricity.

subscribed2• 5 months ago

If the press reports are accurate, your electricit infrastructure needs investments, so hopefully your money pays for that, and not someone's bonuses.

atlgator• 5 months ago

Do we though? I've had both and I much prefer natural gas.

zippyman552• 5 months ago

I'm a big natural gas guy (for cooking) with property in Coastal California. But, I think getting off gas may be the way to go. My utility bill requires a gas transport fee, and looking at it, when I am absent, I'm spending $120+/month for a pilot light and an idle water heater. Electricity would offer a cheaper way to shut off the usage while gone, and to avoid the excessive gas fees. So, I'd consider a electric water heater, electric stove, and then I have to resolve the heating issue, but climate is mild where I live.

gib4442• 5 months ago

Ramping up idle fees is how they will force the holdouts onto electricity. $120/mo is insane. We pay about $15/mo but I can certainly see it going up

ralph84• 5 months ago

Don't worry, the excessive fee even when you're not using it aka "Base Services Charge" is coming to electricity as well.

kristiandupont• 5 months ago

I've used gas and induction stoves and they are almost comparable. I certainly wouldn't replace my heat pump and induction stove with gas.

viraptor• 5 months ago

What do you mean by prefer? Is it more economical in your location? (Where?) Or...?

pastage• 5 months ago

You get fast control with gas, I have cooked a lot with gas that instant enveloping heat is nice! New electric stoves are in my view superior, because they are less messy and have even better control.

whateverboat• 5 months ago

Why do you prefer gas?

dyauspitr• 5 months ago

Why would you prefer natural gas? That stuff is expensive and cooking with it is pretty toxic. Would much rather have government subsidies like the Australians have for solar panels to get over the initial large investment needed for the heat pump.

instagib2• 5 months ago

Number of times me or my family lost power in various states: a lot.

Number of times we lost water: 3.

Number of times we lost natural gas? Zero.

OldSchool3• 5 months ago

I've been using two heat pumps near Austin, Texas since 2011, rated at a total of 84,000 BTU/hr (4 ton + 3 ton capacity) (25KW of heat) on a total of 5KW electrical input (COP ~= 5.0).

They are standard outdoor air heat exchangers so below about 35F efficiency drops significantly. That's pretty rare around here so it is almost always enough - we can still gain about 45F vs the outdoor temperature even below 20F.

We don't have natural gas available where I live, only propane. When I purchased the heat pumps, propane was $5/gallon for 91,500 BTU. That translates to about $4.60/hr to run 84,000 BTU/hr of furnace. With electric energy (cheap in Texas!) at about $0.11/KWh, the equivalent costs of my heat pumps was and remains close to about $0.55/hr to run.

In the summer, they cool with equal capacity and similar power consumption for a 15 SEER rating (waste heat from the system components works against cooling in the summer!)

Factor in your acquisition costs (mine, just after the housing bust and with a little legwork, were about 20% of retail at the time, so a no-brainer) and you can get a lot more objective idea what you're really accomplishing.

lm284692• 5 months ago

I've been using two heat pumps near Austin... (25KW of heat)

Is this for a single house? What kind of insulation do you have

bob1029• 5 months ago

For ATX, this capacity is entirely about the summer. Any winter performance is an afterthought.

OldSchool3• 5 months ago

I hear you, it's a single two-story house built in 2000, not small but smaller than typical developers build these days here. I added 18 inches of insulation to the attic, not much I can do in the walls. Double-pane glass. It's not drafty but seems poorly insulated as a whole despite being relatively modern and better-than-average quality. Houses in cold climates seem much tighter and better insulated.

hnburnsy• 5 months ago

Well for heat pump hot water heaters you are going to get them in 2029, like it or not...

https://www.hotwater.com/info-center/doe-regulations/doe-res...

0-_-0• 5 months ago

"The standards will require minor updates to gas-fired storage (gas tank) water heaters."

mock-possum• 5 months ago

It’s the install cost that’s in the way, not the electricity cost. A heat pump and a solar array would be great, I’d love to stick that on my house, if I wasn’t buried in debt.

klipklop• 5 months ago

We don’t want them, they are being forced on us by banning natural gas furnaces and efficient refrigerants.

subscribed2• 5 months ago

Mhm, and naughty kooks are banning your rolling coal truck too. Such a nasty, nasty people.

johnea• 5 months ago

This is why the heat pump should come along with local electric generation (mostly solar) and local storage (mostly battery banks).

In this configuration a typical suburban home can provide ALL of it's own energy needs, including 2 electric cars.

This also needs to come along with a massive reorganization of the US' electric utilities, which are primarily optimized to provide the most money possible to some rich assholes.

Instead we should be optimized for local generation, storage and distribution.

That is to say, we should be technologically optimized, not shareholder return optimized.

Obviously, this won't happen while the world's richest have the sway that they currently hold on policy.

But in the mean time, each homeowner can move ahead with local generation and storage that provides for all of their local energy consumption.

And YES, it does pay for itself over a shorter time span than a typical mortgage...

instagib2• 5 months ago

I had an install of a heat pump slightly oversized for the work trailer used. Every day it was below 30-40F 0C-4C, the pre-heater would kick on. A heat strip inside the heat pump.

It would take 30min to an hour to get heat out of the heat pump. We had to get portable heaters to supplement the heat generated and while the pre-heater was running.

Then in summer it could not handle cooling so we needed an additional loud window AC.

iknowstuff2• 5 months ago

So obviously it was undersized, not oversized, lol

Americans want heat pumps – but high electricity prices may get in the way

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