White House gives Maduro ultimatum as U.S. moves toward land operations

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/venezuela/article313261442.html

by clanky • 8 months ago

41 80 8 months ago

miamiherald.com

ncr100• 8 months ago

Maybe Epstein files are hiding in Maduro-land? /s

Unnecessary waste of life, attention, money coming soon.

more_corn• 8 months ago

Gunna go get that Nobel peace prize no matter who he has to blow up to find it.

jleyank• 8 months ago

Somebody should convince the guy that it doesn't count ending a war that you started a little while before... Also, there has to be a general trend of peacefulness in one's behaviour.

JumpCrisscross18• 8 months ago

The only advantages I can see to America pushing for Maduro’s removal are unlocking mismanaged oil supplies and removing a hive of Russian, Iranian and Chinese activity from the Western Hemisphere.

Those are the upsides. The downsides are prompting anti-American balancing moves across South America, Bay of Pigsing and increasing Maduro’s legitimacy, giving Russian air defences a paintbrush to our kit and fucking it up completely and sparking a refugee crisis.

In practice, I’m increasingly convinced we’re about to go to war because of what a dead pedophile knows about the President.

cogman102• 8 months ago

Don't forget the death and pointless carnage as downsides.

Bombing fishing boats, saying it's "drugs" and using that to justify a war in our back-porch is insanity.

Who even supports this? It seems like the most unjustified war we've ever started.

amanaplanacanal2• 8 months ago

This feels even more manufactured than the Iraq invasion. I don't understand why Trump would do something like this which is gonna peel off yet another group of his supporters. Maybe he just thinks he's invincible now? He must feel like this helps him politically somehow, but I can't figure out how.

JumpCrisscross18• 8 months ago

Who even supports this?

Over a third of each of 2024 Trump voters and self-identified conservatives consider Venezuela America's "enemy" [1]. (Over two fifths of each of the male, Hispanic, 65+ and $100k+ income demos view Maduro unfavourably.)

Also, "weapons and AI platforms that were designed for a future conflict with China or struggled to prove themselves on the Ukrainian battlefield have found a niche in the administration’s tech-enabled crackdown on drug trafficking" [2]. ("In an interview, Palantir Technologies Chief Executive Alex Karp declined to say whether his company’s technology was involved in counternarcotics operations, but voiced support for the strikes. 'If we are involved, I am very proud,' Karp said.")

[1] https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabRepor... The Economist/YouGov, November 15 to 17, U.S. Adult Citizens

[2] https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/trumps-focus-...

scruple2• 8 months ago

It seems like an easy move to make to me. If you say it's WMDs, you have to eventually turn out the WMDs. If you say it's cocaine, well there's plenty of coke in Venezuela. It's dead simple to tie it to Maduro and label him a drug lord as justification.

tomatotomato37• 8 months ago

Those upsides could have also been accomplished by pointing the CIA at Venezuela to do the same thing they've been doing across South America for the past fifty years.

JumpCrisscross18• 8 months ago

Those upsides could have also been accomplished by pointing the CIA at Venezuela to do the same thing they've been doing across South America for the past fifty years

Has the CIA actually advanced American interests in South America? Legitimate question. My layman's understanding is they serially fucked the theatres they were assigned to alongside America's reputation in exchange for, at best, short-term U.S. wins.

mc322• 8 months ago

Does anyone down there even like Maduro? As far as I can tell even “sympathetic” regimes down there are not fond of how he’s running the place. Given that, any public sentiment supporting him would be counterfeit.

Maduro has created an ongoing migrant crisis for a decade. Colombia, Chile, etc., are up to their gills in Venezuelan migrants already. Pretty sure lots of them would love to go back home if even a barely mediocre government replaced him.

They said, it’s their mess. They should fix it by themselves —we don’t need to go in there. Let them figure it out.

coffinbirth2• 8 months ago

How is it possible that a president of a country can close the airspace of another country?

How can the extrajudicial killings of (over 80 by now!) alleged drug traffickers without any charges or trials be justified or accepted? These are, in fact, crimes against humanity.

I'm convinced at some point in the future U.S. citizens will have to learn what war means.

JumpCrisscross18• 8 months ago

How is it possible that a president of a country can close the airspace of another country?

To be fair, closing airspace before engaging in air operations is an international courtesy. It reduces the chances of downing civilian airliners. (In a similar vein, announcing closures and then not following through is incredibly damaging.)

alleged drug traffickers without any charges or trials be justified or accepted? These are, in fact, crimes against humanity

They are war crimes.

If you're concerned about it, call your representative and tell them you care about the American military committing war crimes. There is currently momentum on the issue [1].

[1] https://www.politico.com/news/2025/11/30/war-crimes-hegseth-...

coffinbirth2• 8 months ago

It cannot be a war crime if there is no war. There is no declaration of war and no approval of Congress. The ICC classified these strikes as crimes against humanity.

defrost• 8 months ago

Part of the mechanism to make this possible is dropping the full weight of the DOJ and other three letter agencies down hard on anybody who dares to point out the illegality of many of the actions here.

eg: Pentagon Is Investigating a Member Of Congress Who Criticized Trump

~ https://talkingpointsmemo.com/where-things-stand/pentagon-is...

is essentially direct retribution against elected members, former military members who merely state that serving troops are required to follow the law and the constitution first as a priority.

This wastes the time, money, and resources of those prepared to state the emperor has no clothes and serves as a dire warning to any other that might think to stand up.

dragonwriter2• 8 months ago

How is it possible that a president of a country can close the airspace of another country?

It is a de facto declaration of war, focussed (on its face, it has other propaganda and diplomatic purposes) on informing civilians of the imminent actions and associated risks so that they can conduct themselves accordingly.

metalcrow• 8 months ago

How can the extrajudicial killings of (over 80 by now!) alleged drug traffickers without any charges or trials be justified or accepted? These are, in fact, crimes against humanity.

It's _been_ accepted for years, if not decades now. Ever since the US started drone striking people without trial, or via trial in absentia, this has been the new normal. It being against international law is meaningless if no one care what the international law is, and especially if other countries are also breaking the law in the exact same way.

trymas• 8 months ago

How can the extrajudicial killings of (over 80 by now!) alleged drug traffickers without any charges…

While drug trafficker convicted of trafficking 400 tons of cocaine get full presidential pardon.

matheusmoreira3• 8 months ago

How is it possible that a president of a country can close the airspace of another country?

Threat of violence. Nobody is dumb enough to test the patience of the country with Eagles and Raptors.

How can the extrajudicial killings of (over 80 by now!) alleged drug traffickers without any charges or trials be justified or accepted?

It's really simple.

Drug traffickers are so rich and organized they are in fact parallel governments. They are parasite governments inside the "official" ones. They have territory. They have armies. They have laws. They have tribunals. They even have goddamn taxes. It's middle ages tier barbarity. It's like a secession but without actually seceding.

Trump's administration is simply engaging a belligerent government that refuses to respect its laws and treaties and insists on engaging in covert infiltration and drug sale operations on US soil.

Nuking drug boats out of existence is the correct course of action.

I'm convinced at some point in the future U.S. citizens will have to learn what war means.

It's because of Trump that they don't have to learn what war means. They should be thanking Trump and his troops for their service.

In my country police can't engage in a single operation against the continent spanning organized drug gangs without judges busting their balls every single step of the way while at the same time releasing drug traffickers from prison and even giving back their seized drug money.

How do you think it feels to wake up one day and read a newspaper saying the drug gangs dominate a quarter of your country's territory? There's speculation that the drug gangs control judges, politicians. Can you fathom what it must be like to take in this information when you're married and planning to have children?

Americans should be worshipping Trump right now. They have no idea how privileged they are. Some of us are not so lucky. Some of us live in countries where at any point in time organized crime gangs can come to your house and spray paint a message saying you have 24 hours to leave or be killed. They've emptied entire towns this way. Americans will never experience that and they should thank god for it. They have professional soldiers waging literal war against these barbarians so they don't have to.

mrlonglong2• 8 months ago

Destabilising south America like this will only entrench the cartels and bring the war right into the United States.

clanky4• 8 months ago

That will be a problem for South Americans and to a lesser extent you and me, not the ones pulling Trump's strings.

JumpCrisscross18• 8 months ago

to a lesser extent you and me

If this regime were capable of seeing past its own shoelaces, one could imagine a conspiracy to prompt a migrant crisis so the GOP has an issue its trusted by voters on.

tim333• 8 months ago

In theory they get Maduro to

leave Venezuela immediately to allow the restoration of democratic rule

and then sunshine and unicorns ensue.

matheusmoreira3• 8 months ago

The cartels are already entrenched. Organized drug gangs already dominate over a quarter of the south american continent. People openly speculate about how they control judges and politicians, and I don't doubt it for a second.

If the US manages to deal a crippling blow to these drug gangs, he will have done south america a huge favor and I will be forever indebted to him.

mrlonglong2• 8 months ago

What do you make of Trump pardoning a convicted drug kingpin who was once a President then?

DustinEchoes• 8 months ago

“No new wars”

cosmicgadget4• 8 months ago

"This war was started by the cartels and corrupt Maduro regime under Sleepy Joe Biden."

Or something similar. His base will not give it a second thought.

bithavoc3• 8 months ago

The US has seen six governments since Woodstock ‘99, alternating the ruling party almost perfectly every four years: Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden and Trump again.

Venezuela has seen only two presidents in 26 years, Chavez and Maduro, and both belong to the same ruling party.

PieTime• 8 months ago

And some US allies have seen no change, I’m hoping that’s not a metric for which countries to invade.

tastyface2• 8 months ago

You have stated a fact but provided no conclusion. Please finish your thought.

bithavoc3• 8 months ago

exactly, there’s no conclusion, it’s been almost three decades.

It’s nice to have a different ruling party every few years and not just every three decades like in Venezuela(so far).

Maybe Venezuelas want to give their oil to another 3rd-party that is not Iran, Cuba, Russia or China for a change.

rchaud• 8 months ago

So have Russia, Israel, Egypt and several other nations. I don't see the US cutting military aid to the latter two because of a lack of diverse electoral outcomes.

general1465• 8 months ago

So mad king will cause rally around the flag in Venezuela. And then what? Another Vietnam? China and Russia will be more than happy to supply drones and weapons to grind US military in an endless insurgency. Russia especially, to just give USA a taste of a shitsandwich they are forced to eat for 4 years straight.

m0llusk• 8 months ago

Then he chickens out on Tuesday as usual, that's what.

JumpCrisscross18• 8 months ago

Russia especially

Russia is in no position to help Maduro, they're currently being bailed out by Tehran and Pyongyang. China could, and it's genuinely interesting to see them sitting it out so far [1].

[1] https://www.wsj.com/world/americas/why-russia-and-china-are-...

Balgair• 8 months ago

"Surely a quick, violent, successful war of aggression is just what the ruler needs to shore up his legitimacy," said just about every failed monarch in history shortly before invading Serbia.

https://bsky.app/profile/bretdevereaux.bsky.social

vdupras4• 8 months ago

This has to be related to Russia and the war in Ukraine. I'm not a military buff, so my analysis might be way off, but here we go.

  1. The US has sent a shitload of weapons to Ukraine over the last years.
  2. Given the US military superiority and how weak Russia is supposed to be, Russia should be on its knees right now.
  3. The US is promoting a peace plan that seems to heavily favor Russia.

So, at that point, I see two possibilities:

  1. Trump is a russian asset
  2. The US military is privately shitting its pants about how weak they are in this proxy war.

Theoretically, if Trump was a russian asset, he wouldn't go after Venezuela. Why would Russia want to destroy its puppet state?

So I'm going with 2, and it's the cold war again. This is an attempt by the US military to spread Russia thin for further conflicts coming all over the place.

JumpCrisscross18• 8 months ago

US military is privately shitting its pants about how weak they are in this proxy war

What? Our 90s air defences are shooting down Russia's bleeding-edge missiles. We're withholding Tomahawks because Putin throws a hissy fit every time it comes up because Russia's newest, shiniest air defence systems--the ones it has been selling for hundreds of millions of dollars to Iran and Venezuela--have been getting potted by homemade Ukranian SEAD tactics.

Ukraine has exposed weaknesses in our drone arsenal. I bet China (or Venezuela) would have preferred to have encountered those weaknesses directly, but that's what you get for fucking around.

Trump probably isn't a Russian asset. And the U.S. military isn't shitting itself over a spent conventional power.

vdupras4• 8 months ago

I understand that this is the conventionally accepted version of the military situation in Ukraine. But if that's the case, why is US' peace proposal favorable to Russia? The US should be laughing at Russia's puny attempts to breach their invincible defenses.

scruple2• 8 months ago

Idk, I assume it's about the heavy feedstock in the Orinoco Belt that our industrial base is addicted to and our own Gulf Coast refinery system.

If the MIC gets to test out some new toys in the field along the way they just consider that icing on the cake.

cosmicgadget4• 8 months ago

Seems more likely that Trump is only loyal to himself. It would explain favoring Russia when it suits him and invading Venezuela due to the Epstein thing and/or fixation on oil.

Given the US military superiority and how weak Russia is supposed to be, Russia should be on its knees right now.

The problem with this supposed quandary is that the US military isn't fighting Russia.

DrierCycle• 8 months ago

When you are developing an autocratic regime within an elected system, criminal extralegal military action reveals who the leaders are who will act criminally (are "loyal") segregating them from the constitutional adherents who oppose you.

It's a final step to overthrowing the US's elected officials or rendering them powerless.

jrepinc• 8 months ago

Just more illegal and criminal regime change and foreign interference by USA. Can't they just leave the world alone and stop forcing their wants to the rest of the world for once. Really doing nothing but make them be even more hated.

White House gives Maduro ultimatum as U.S. moves toward land operations

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