Swedish publishers file police report against Meta's Zuckerberg for fraud

https://www.sverigesradio.se/artikel/swedish-publishers-file-police-report-against-metas-zuckerberg-for-fraud

by Frieren • 8 months ago

128 38 8 months ago

sverigesradio.se

philipwhiuk• 8 months ago

Interesting that he's named personally. Can any Swedish person explain whether this is the normal process?

Toerktumlare• 8 months ago

In Sweden, you can charge someone/something two ways.

Either you and a company has a disagreement and you sue one or the other and it goes to court.

But in this case, ”Utgivarna” which are basically a company/org that represents a lot of media outlets, basically went to the police instead and said ”hey, we think that meta is breaking the Swedish law”.

What the police does is that they then investigate and then finds out who is responsible for the company (Mr. Zuck) and then eventually will indict him. Since its Meta that is breaking the law and The Zuck is the one in charge of Meta.

hnlmorg• 8 months ago

That makes a lot more sense than the stupid approach like America (and I’m sure other countries too) where they consider the company a person and thus all that actually happens is a fine, that almost always amounts to several orders of magnitude less than the company made for their knowingly wrongdoing

dietr1ch• 8 months ago

Isn't that ultimately there's people responsible for a company's actions the reason why Mr Burns has a canary that actually owns his company?

https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/Canary_M._Burns

Cyclone_• 8 months ago

I am not familiar with the legal system in Sweden, but it seems odd that it would be a police report instead of a lawsuit.

amanaplanacanal• 8 months ago

I know nothing about Swedish law, but in the US, there can be both civil and criminal fraud. They might be planning to file a lawsuit also.

SoftTalker3• 8 months ago

I think fraud is always a crime? Something like breach of contract would be a civil matter, as that’s probably not fraud just a disagreement.

FinnKuhn• 8 months ago

Fraud is usually a crime and therefore a matter for the police, even in the US.

Frieren2• 8 months ago

Fraud is a crime. When a crime is committed citizens inform the police to investigate.

If someone punches you in the street or steals your wallet will you file a lawsuit or call the police? Maybe in America is different, but the normal thing to do is to go to the police. Fraud is not different, the police will investigate.

dmoy• 8 months ago

In the US you can do both (and often that's what happens - parallel criminal and civil cases)

US legal system is kinda weird

SoftTalker3• 8 months ago

If someone punches you in the street or steals your wallet will you file a lawsuit or call the police?

In the USA, probably both. You (or your insurance company) might sue them to recover your financial losses, the police would investigate the crime of assault and/or robbery and pass any evidence along to the prosecutor.

Of course if they have no money or other assets, suing them is a bit pointless.

bjourne• 8 months ago

It means the legal system is investigating the matter and the public prosecutor may or may not decide to file charges. The publishers might have filed a lawsuit themselves, but that is very expensive so they hope the legal system will do it for them. My guess is that the investigation will be closed because I don't think Swedish authorities think they have jurisdiction over Facebook. Unless Meta happens to have offices in Sweden, which I don't think they have. In general they can only prosecute crimes committed in Sweden or committed by Swedes.

mongol2• 8 months ago

The investigation maybe will be closed, but not for that reason. Fraudulent ads that are paid for and then shown on Swedish news sites makes money change hands in Sweden. Even though the fraudsters are abroad, Meta makes business with the media in Sweden that displays the ads. Jurisdiction will not be a problem

mansandersson• 8 months ago

Unless Meta happens to have offices in Sweden, which I don't think they have

Meta operates one of their european datacenters out of Luleå in Sweden.

walletdrainer3• 8 months ago

I don’t think there’s a story here, it’s a police report, not even a lawsuit.

There’s no skin in the game required when filing a police report.

tokai• 8 months ago

It's not going to be a lawsuit. You don't sue companies for breaking the law in Sweden. It's going to be a criminal case if police deem so.

arnsholt• 8 months ago

I'm pretty sure the publishers are alleging that a crime has been committed. In that case, private parties can't open a suit (at least if Swedish criminal law is at all similar to Norwegian law), so this asks the police to open a criminal investigation into the matter. What happens next in the Norwegian system at least is that the police will conduct their investigation, and at some point when the police consider their investigations complete the prosecutor's office will decide what to do next. Next steps can be concluding that no crime has occured, to ask the police to investigate further, that a crime has been committed but the evidence are insufficient for a trial, or that someone should be tried.

walletdrainer3• 8 months ago

Surely you can still sue separately through the civil process even if you choose to not pursue criminal charges?

If someone causes you damage through non-criminal negligence, surely you can sue them?

The idea that you couldn’t bring a civil suit over possibly criminal conduct seems unworkable. It’s possible that my neighbour was drunk when he crashed into my parked car late at night, but surely that can’t preclude me from seeking compensation through civilian courts.

It’s possible, but tremendously unlikely that Facebook is committing fraud here. In Sweden you have to prove intent to defraud, which is a tremendously high bar.

Which, again, makes the idea that you couldn’t bring a civil suit seem ever more bizarre. How could you possibly know if Facebook has committed fraud here? You presumably can’t read Zuckerbergs toughts.

mongol2• 8 months ago

The media commpanies that have filed the report are not the victims of the fraud and would not have a case to sue. And the defrauded people don't have the means. The media companies can however report a committed crime, and their high profile brings it more attention

Frieren2• 8 months ago

This should be just the begging as Social Media companies will not be able to just declare themselves over the law on fraud claims.

- "Social media giants liable for financial scams under new EU law " https://www.politico.eu/article/social-media-giants-meta-tik...

- "Meta is earning a fortune on a deluge of fraudulent ads, documents show" https://www.reuters.com/investigations/meta-is-earning-fortu...

javier2• 8 months ago

Making these ad companies liable for the scams they allow (even take a premium for running them) seems like the only way forward.

ChrisArchitect• 8 months ago

Meta is earning a fortune on a deluge of fraudulent ads

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45834840

xorcist• 8 months ago

There is a deluge of financial scams across all Meta platforms but also Twitter. A centralized platform have all the right to moderate content, but they must also be liable for obvious scams.

Either you are an open messenger like the postal service or an ISP. Or you own the platform. You cannot have it both ways.

I never understood why they all get away with doing nothing. Meta's own investigation showed 10%+ of all revenue is from outright scams, and all they do is charge the scammers a premium.

I have reported scams myself and have been completely stonewalled just like everyone else. They obviously earn a lot of money by looking the other way. That can't possibly be legal in any jurisdiction. Let's hope the Swedish justice system takes this seriously and sets an example for others.

gruez2• 8 months ago

Either you are an open messenger like the postal service [...]

In what way is the postal service "open"? Sure, anyone can send a letter, but anyone can also create a facebook messenger account. If you want to do business with it (eg. sending bulk mail or delivering international mail), you still need to enter into a commercial agreement.

retrac• 8 months ago

It's open in the sense that anyone can use it. Without restriction. And there's no way to be banned from it. Since anyone can just drop off an anonymous letter in the post. You don't have to enter a service agreement. Just dump you satchel of letters with stamps on them, in the nearest mail box.

It's not just practically open. It's legally open; at least here in Canada, the federal postal service has a legal obligation, arising from the constitutional right to free speech, to carry any mail that has legal content, regardless of how Canada Post or its employees might feel about it. They're obligated to take those commercial service agreements regardless of content. (This has been a point of contention sometimes with graphic anti-abortion flyers delivered as ad-mail.)

The main means to deal with someone abusing the postal system is the criminal law and court orders.

rightbyte• 8 months ago

Thinking about it I think I have received one scambait paper mail ever. Dunno why not more. Maybe the stamp makes it not profitable.

LordRamaKrishna• 8 months ago

Lord Zuckerberg is above the law everywhere in the world! 100% guarantee nothing will come of this.

erikrothoff• 8 months ago

My (swedish) grandfather keeps falling for these Meta scams. Scrolling through his feed is insane and disgusting. So many ads that mimick OS alerts saying storage is low, insane amounts of AI crap and fake products. I 100% agree with this. Try scrolling through your grandparents’ Instagram or Facebook and see for yourself. It’s obviously _very_ easy for Meta to filter out these scams, but they choose not to.

Braxton1980• 8 months ago

So he was scammed, I'm assuming he knows that he was, but he keeps falling for them?

What type of scams are these and why hasn't he become insanely paranoid after the first or second time?

cromka• 8 months ago

Honestly? Just delete his account and say he must have clicked some scam link. Sure its manipulative, but at this point what can you actually do to protect them?

Yiin• 8 months ago

install adblocker?

Swedish publishers file police report against Meta's Zuckerberg for fraud

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