Why I got Fired from Facebook (a $100 Million dollar lesson)

http://okdork.com/2012/09/29/why-i-got-fired-from-facebook-a-100-million-dollar-lesson/

by frankdenbow • 14 years ago

159 90 14 years ago

jongold• 14 years ago

Decent post - it's always interesting to see people write openly about times when they messed up (and heartening to know that everyone does)

PythonDeveloper• 14 years ago

I worked for a VERY large Internet company in the late '90s, and I can say with complete conviction that the VAST majority of terminations were politically motivated.

Several times I was provided a list of my team members that needed to go, and when I asked "why this guy?" or "why her?", the answer was never performance related. A few times I was able to argue the team member to safety, but most of the time it was already a forgone conclusion.

Each faction would come into and out of favor with upper management as the rounds of layoffs came and went, and the business priorities changed. Enemies of that faction were always targeted, irrespective of the cost to the business of the loss of that talent.

The way I avoided all this WITHOUT choosing a side was to quietly make myself invaluable to the upper management as the key "goto guy" for skunkwerk projects, to always accept technical due-diligence projects on upcoming acquisitions, and keep showing "projects I'm working on in my spare time" to the uppers.

_k• 14 years ago

The more the value offered, the more likely politics wins.

jgrahamc• 14 years ago

I rather enjoyed the inscription by Zuck in the copy of Strunk and White. It reads: "The product is strong with this one. Now learn some grammer."

Yep, he gave this guy Strunk and White and spelt grammar incorrectly.

gruseom• 14 years ago

I noticed that too, but thought it could be a joke. It's fun to mispell things on purpose sometimes.

devilshaircut2• 14 years ago

Stunk and White, the bane of descriptivist linguists everywhere, strikes again! I'm disappointed in Zuckerberg.

defen• 14 years ago

Have you read David Foster Wallace's take[1] on this issue? To me[2] it seems like a good case for a form of prescriptivism. I do have to admit that I'm a huge fan of DFW and am surprised anyone was able to write an interesting article about the "linguistic wars", so maybe that colors my opinion somewhat.

[1] http://harpers.org/media/pdf/dfw/HarpersMagazine-2001-04-007... [1a]

[1a] PDF warning

[2] Someone with no background in or knowledge of linguistics

smarx• 14 years ago

I actually think he spelled it correctly. It's hard to tell from the picture, but that letter looks more like the other A's than the E's.

lifeformed2• 14 years ago

Yeah, I'm guessing he's left handed - I am, and I write my A's and G's just like that. When I'm sloppy, the A's end up looking like E's, and the G's look like really long S's.

bennesvig• 14 years ago

Probably a joke. One of the few words where it is funny to intentionally misspell it.

poopicus• 14 years ago

How exactly did he lose $100,000,000?

lacksconfidence• 14 years ago

probably a rough guess based on the stock value of other employees from the same period as him that still work at facebook.

Evbn• 14 years ago

Someone whose model of business is the same framework as penises is probably not going to fit in at a large company marketing department.

theorique2• 14 years ago

"model of business is the same framework as penises"

I'm not sure I get what you mean here. Could you clarify?

mattdeboard6• 14 years ago

Furthermore I was not aware there was a penis framework.

omarchowdhury• 14 years ago

Showers/growers

StavrosK2• 14 years ago

That's why we have lubricant.

safetyscissors• 14 years ago

I'm getting a 500. Anyone have a mirror?

abibibo• 14 years ago

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...

mattdeboard6• 14 years ago

a "liability" is a very strong word to use when describing someone in a company. Reading that bit made me grimace.

rhizome5• 14 years ago

I would say it's a sign of allowing emotions to enter the equation, the liability being not to the company, but to the person ascribing liability's plans or personal compensation.

ekm2• 14 years ago

Every time i read such posts,i become more confident that is harder to be an employee trying to figure out what a boss(or his/her company) needs than to just start your own business and let the market decide.

subhro• 14 years ago

Well said. Well said!!

eavc2• 14 years ago

Yep - having to guess at your boss's needs is like the worst of both worlds. Either have a boss that provides meaningful structure, communication, and leadership or work for yourself.

throwaway4042• 14 years ago

When Noah says, "everyone is replaceable", he really means it.

Yesterday, he fired half of AppSumo, despite the company is profitable and growing.

Here is Noah's m.o. with AppSumo:

1) Attract and hire people by paying them above market salary and promising equity.

2) New employees grow the company by building systems, automating inefficient processes, creating new lines of business, etc.

3) Once systems are built and operating efficiently; fire staff before equity vests.

4) Rinse, repeat, wash.

Entrepreneurs like this give startups a bad name. It's sad to see so many people celebrate him as a startup role model.

The reason he was fired from Facebook because he leaked internal features to the press and blogged about them. Yet he still seems unapologetic "I don’t think what I did was that wrong since the marketing team did not do anything to promote our new features."

Clearly this guy's moral compass points south.

theorique2• 14 years ago

Clearly this guy's moral compass points south.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

mattdeboard6• 14 years ago

A properly functioning compass points north.

xiaoma• 14 years ago

In China, a compass is called a 指南针 ("point south needle"). So... I guess it depends on who you're talking to.

kareemm2• 14 years ago

> Yesterday, he fired half of AppSumo, despite the company is profitable and growing.

What's the real story here? Your comment comes off more like a bitter ex-employee than someone who's qualified to judge Noah's moral compass from a blog post and anonymous rumor about AppSumo.

Disclosure: I count Noah as a good friend.

wildmXranat2• 14 years ago

Him being bitter about the fact and that it was a scummy thing to do are not mutually exclusive. I count myself as an impartial commenter.

throwaway4042• 14 years ago

> anonymous rumor about AppSumo.

Email him.

throwaway5036• 14 years ago

If you consider Noah as a good friend, then by definition you do not have an unbiased opinion.

throwaway5036• 14 years ago

The entire story about a startup is about money. I hear people saying stuff like "I add value by creating something wonderful", but I consider that a truckload of horseshit. It is always about money and firing people just before equity vesting bolsters that idea.

This is the precise reason I work as an independent contractor for companies and explicitly make an effort not to get into an employment.

michaelochurch6• 14 years ago

The entire story about a startup is about money. VC-istan is banking, really, except instead of securities and loans you're dealing in ads.

Honestly, I think finance is better. The money's better, the work is about the same in quality, and if you stick to the quantitative stuff, the people are a lot more ethical in finance.

pherk• 14 years ago

Could it be that he got fired from Facebook for the same reason as well? For founders, this seems like an easy way to guard themselves against dilution.

Nobody is perfect. Be it life or work, we all do mistakes. It is easy to disillusion ourselves or justify ourselves, that others were right. In this occasion, it is probably easy for Noah to relate to few things that didn't go well and assume them as reasons for getting fired.

If Mark Zuckerberg used this tactic so that he could have more value for his stocks at the end of the day, then it is quite a disgusting one. I have great respect for Mark. I hope it is not true.

If so many people were fired, then clearly there was a problem with hiring the right people.

throwaway5036• 14 years ago

> For founders, this seems like an easy way to guard themselves against dilution.

I think the most important property of a good leader is behave like an umbrella. Guard the shit and magnify the happiness. If someone takes the stance of firing employees to justify dilution then, in my not so humble opinion, they dont deserve to lead.

>Nobody is perfect. Be it life or work, we all do mistakes.

And be man enough to own up, learn from the mistake and don't repeat it again.

>If Mark Zuckerberg used this tactic so that he could have more value for his stocks at the end of the day, then it is quite a disgusting one. I have great respect for Mark. I hope it is not true.

"I'm a CEO, bitch". Does that sound familiar? The whole of Facebook works with the preamble of "Mark is always right". That sounds more like a dictator than a founder. And a dictator is only interested in his own interests.

>If so many people were fired, then clearly there was a problem with hiring the right people.

Or, the founder just wanted to get work by paying less. Ideally these people should have been hired as contractors. But the founder decided to create an illusion of a long term commitment to compromise on the Cost to the Company.

Disclaimer: I had worked for Facebook, got fed up with the idiocy and resigned after 3 months.

a5seo3• 14 years ago

>> fire staff before equity vests

I seriously doubt this is the reason. Doesn't Noah own like 80-90% of that business, and any one superstar employee is maybe looking at 1% or less in equity.

So you're saying Noah would burn people to pick up rounding-error-level equity? I don't buy it.

There may be other untoward reasons for firing people, but hoarding equity is not one of them. More likely he realized the people he hired don't operate at the level he wanted or he decided he can't afford their above market salary. Salary is a FAR more likely reason, especially because AppSumo is so capital efficient.

JoeAltmaier4• 14 years ago

Its a scummy thing to do regardless of how it affects the boss. Its how it affects the fire-ee that makes it scummy.

jneen2• 14 years ago

"It stings the person WAY more than the company. ... I encourage everyone to get fired once so they know that feeling. It’s unbelievable and something to definitely learn from."

^THIS. THANK YOU, SIR. In my case, it wasn't the sudden lack of a job that stung, it was the experience of being completely blacklisted by everyone at the company. That was 20 close friends who I never heard from again.

just_observing• 14 years ago

"That was 20 close friends who I never heard from again."

They were not close friends then.

wildmXranat2• 14 years ago

Indeed. In fact, I figure that those people contributed to the fact he was fired,- directly or otherwise. Never underestimate the prospect of someone else undercutting your reputation to make themselves look better.

jneen2• 14 years ago

Fair point. Perhaps it seemed that way because I'd been working so much that I'd lost any semblance of a social life outside work. That's a mistake I haven't made again.

Also, not everyone in the company should be painted with the same brush. There was a lot going on, none of which I'm actually at liberty to talk about, unfortunately.

MartinCron3• 14 years ago

Even if they are only "work friends", it can still hurt to be suddenly detached from people whose company you enjoy.

throwaway5036• 14 years ago

dude, I would say at least the takeaway from the whole episode was "Personal Life should always have higher priority than work". Your employer can be replaced, your personal life can't.

Even I learnt it the hard way :)

MartinCron3• 14 years ago

More than two years later, I still don't go a full day without feeling the sting of being suddenly removed from my co-workers and group identity.

I have learned to pour a little less of my soul into work, to guard against this happening again.

michaelochurch6• 14 years ago

If they were "close friends", they're not going to drop you just because you got canned. Good people get fired all the time. It's about as unremarkable as a bad rainstorm. Shit... another one of these.

Most companies are shitty and most people know most companies are shitty and aren't going to ostracize someone just because their employer fired that person.

You are best off if you have an offline form of contact. Don't expect them to let the company know that you're still in contact with them, because that's not a fair expectation (they could be endangering their own reputations) but they'll usually be in contact with you offline.

maeon3• 14 years ago

This rant reminds me of podcast 1.0.1 about "getting fired" of "this developer's life".

http://thisdeveloperslife.com/

Getting fired is not that big a deal. Employers do everything in their power to make it a big deal. But the truth is, Developers (the good ones) are in such high demand, that it grates employers to no end, we are a liability to be needed so much, so they use psychological tricks to get us to act like begging dogs. To be thankful just to have a job. It's not the case, we have all the cards, if we just open our eyes.

They need you more than you need them. If you are not happy at your job, GTFO, you'll find another in no time and kick yourself for not doing it sooner.

kalms• 14 years ago

True and true.

salemh• 14 years ago

Until the business cycle corrects and demand is down. But that is the argument, that the growth of demand for developers (region dependent) will now continually be on the up and up versus a down / up, down / up.

Seemed work was hard to come by (as far as picking any position, leaving any position) by my programmer friends as well as during my Tech Recruiting (no longer) days in '08-'09 (late '09+, power shifted to the talent vs companies).

Relocated many, many persons to Utah (majority, other areas also, uprooting families, etc.) during that period of whom appeared, and stated they would not have relocated if the market was not so depressed for talent in their area (the Valley, Texas, NC, the East Coast, all over).

michaelochurch6• 14 years ago

Getting fired itself is not a big deal because companies rarely give bad references. A bad reference not only makes a defamation suit a slam-dunk, but it puts them at a severe disadvantage in a he-said/she-said termination suit, and those can run into the millions.

Being unemployed in a down market (regardless of the kind of termination) is bad, and short job tenures become damaging after a while. Also, if there isn't a severance package, it can hit you financially. 2-4 months without a salary is a pretty serious cost.

So I'd generally agree with what you are saying-- the probability that getting fired will seriously fuck up your life is low-- but being fired is still best avoided.

eavc2• 14 years ago

>Getting fired is not that big a deal.

I'm glad that's true for you, but for most people, it's a pretty traumatic life event. It put the OP into a year-long depression.

edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale#Ad...

JoeAltmaier4• 14 years ago

Just needs a bigger ego. Whenevery I get laid off (actually just the once) I assume they are fools to do it, they must have no idea how great I am, I'm going to a better place.

True or false, its the right attitude to take with you. The alternatives - like a year of depression - are awful, and self-inflicted.

31reasons• 14 years ago

I think he counting his loss at $100 million is not realistic. I am assuming he calculated this number by the amount of equity he would have vested after Facebook IPO. To cash that amount he probably would have had to keep working till now. And if you are an entrepreneur type its a tall order. He should get rid of this feeling of loss of $100 million which was really nothing more than a promise.

michaelochurch6• 14 years ago

OP is an idiot. Not only is he airing his dirty laundry in a way that makes him look extremely bad (saying he was fired because he was "selfish" and "zoned the F out"?) but he left so much on the table (and with his admissions, it's gone forever).

Large companies have deep pockets and don't want information to get out. He couldn't have gotten $100 million out of this, but at the time, he could have definitely had the cliff voided (which would have been enough to get him comfortable)... but now it's far past too late. If nothing else, he could have let the cash and stock go and settled on a glowing reference from Zuck himself-- which would have made his career. There are so many ways he could have turned this to his career benefit.

throwaway5036• 14 years ago

Really? A reference would have made his career and that to from someone who does not have a shining reputation in the tech circles?

michaelochurch6• 14 years ago

Not an HR reference. An agreed-upon reference from Mark Zuckerberg himself (he did work with the guy) including introductions to investors. Yes, I think that would be a major asset to anyone. The sort of thing that comes along once every several lifetimes. This idea that Silicon Valley is a what-you-know meritocracy is not well supported.

All he needed to say was, "look man, I'm sorry we got off to a bad start. Let's talk about how we can help each other out in the future."

Mark Zuckerberg has a bad reputation? On what planet do you live? A lot of people dislike him, sure, as a lot of people will dislike any billionaire, but he's the most successful person in our generation... and it's pretty evident to me (and to most) that at least some of that is earned.

tlrobinson• 14 years ago

"don't want information to get out."

What exactly are you implying, he should have blackmailed them?

Why I got Fired from Facebook (a $100 Million dollar lesson)

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