Notes on Being a Man

https://www.profgalloway.com/notes-on-being-a-man/

by Brajeshwar • 9 months ago

63 71 9 months ago

Donald Trump pulled off a stunning political comeback because of … young men.

If you break exit poll data down by race [1], Black men 18-29 supported Harris by a whopping 55 percentage points. So even though Scott pays lip service to Black male educators being particularly underrepresented, he can't explain why this alleged phenomenon affecting young men is so vastly different between demographics.

[1] https://www.cnn.com/election/2024/exit-polls/national-result...

wakawaka286• 9 months ago

Only 55 percentage points? Did you mean "whopping" in an ironic sense? I expected that stat to be higher. This speaks to just how bad of a candidate Harris was.

jakelazaroff3• 9 months ago

I'm not commenting on Harris as a candidate, just saying that election exit polls actually show the opposite of what Scott is claiming.

namanyayg• 9 months ago

I agree and see these antisocial patterns in my younger male relatives, but the question is: what is the actual solution?

rexpop4• 9 months ago

The solution to the struggles of boys and men, masked by patriarchal pseudo-solutions, is fundamentally tied to a revolution of values, the elimination of patriarchy as an organizing principle, and the reclamation of male emotional integrity and humanity.

Men and women must work together to dismantle systems of domination, embrace feminist thought, and foster genuine selfhood rooted in love and connection.

This means transforming the cultural architecture that defines gender roles and power, because the crisis facing men is the crisis of patriarchal masculinity, and the only resolution is the ending of patriarchy. "Patriarchy is the single most life-threatening social disease assaulting the male body and spirit," and men cannot be truly free as long as its underlying principles are in place. To end patriarchy, we must challenge both its psychological and concrete manifestations in daily life.

Everywhere we must replace the dominator model with a partnership model that humbly recognizes interbeing and interdependency as the organic relationship of all living beings.

Given theses requirements, Feminist thinking and practice are the only way to truly address the crisis of masculinity. A feminist vision embraces a masculinity rooted in the love of male and female being, refusing to privilege one over the other. Feminism teaches men how to love justice and freedom in ways that affirm life, so we can choose loyalty to justice over manhood.

The deepest wound of patriarchy is psychic, so the solution involves internal recovery and the rejection of the "false self".

To heal, men must learn to feel again. We must break the silence and speak the pain that patriarchal culture has forced us to suppress. If men cannot feel, we cannot connect or be intimate. If we cannot connect, we cannot operate in a society.

Feminist masculinity defines strength not as "power over" others, but as one's capacity to be responsible for self and others. Its core constituents include integrity, self-love, emotional awareness, assertiveness, and relational skill, including the capacity to be empathic, autonomous, and connected.

Men must be valued for simply being, rather than having our value determined by what we do or perform (which is the patriarchal standard). We must reclaim masculinity and not allow it to be synonymous with domination or the will to do violence.

periodjet• 9 months ago

Poe’s law strikes again.

loudmax• 9 months ago

Men must be valued for simply being, rather than having our value determined by what we do or perform (which is the patriarchal standard).

I have no idea that "patriarchal standards" are, but we absolutely should value people based on what they perform and do. That's not to say that people don't have an inherent value, or that we shouldn't care for people who need help. We value people who help those around them to the best of their abilities, and we denigrate those who use their abilities to hurt others. Regardless of gender.

We must reclaim masculinity and not allow it to be synonymous with domination or the will to do violence.

There is an extremist element that roughly hews to this notion of masculinity, and this is something that Galloway warns against. I don't think that definition of masculinity that was ever mainstream. It's always been on the fringe, and rightly so.

wagwang• 9 months ago

We should expose them to as much porn, sports betting, and gaming as possible so they don't do anything.

spankibalt2• 9 months ago

what is the actual solution?

Anarchist Pogo Party of Germany (APPD) [1] had the solution: Isolated Gewalterlebnisparks, i. e. violent theme parks! Sort of a Disneyland of Gore on a jungle island or somesuch. There, the true POWER of one's inner ALPHA can be UNLEASHED in televised FIGHTS over scraps of MEAT... and willing TRADWIVES. Just like in the OLD days, the TRAD days.

1. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_Pogo_Party_of_German...]

sph• 9 months ago

To be honest, I'm more interested in their "creation of centers for physical love, so-called Mitfickzentralen (literally fuckpooling centers)" proposal...

rufus_foreman2• 9 months ago

> what is the actual solution?

Let's have a war.

bdangubic• 9 months ago

who is fighting whom in this war?

luciferin2• 9 months ago

I vehemently reject the idea that the left believes, or even phrases their policies to imply, that men, young men, or white men are "the problem". There is a portion of society experiencing persecution bias, and I'm not singaling out any group(s) with that statement. We will never again progress as a society as long as we continue to view the success of someone else as our failure. This goes both ways.

The article lists a number of issues, and 90% of them apply to everyone in our society, not just men, not just the young, not just white people. Why do these young white men read "we the people" and not see it literally applying to all humans? Martin Luther King Jr's speech was as much about little black boys and girls holding hands with little white boys and girls. This isn't exclusion.

darrmit• 9 months ago

You lost me at “the left”.

mikestew• 9 months ago

In which case I think you've misread OP. It's not a well-written opening sentence, but it might not mean what you think it does.

luciferin2• 9 months ago

I find that ironic. I was specifically referencing a line in the second paragraph of the article. The author used the same terminology.

krapp2• 9 months ago

Why do these young white men read "we the people" and not see it literally applying to all humans?

Because we live in a society in which white supremacy still holds real political and cultural power due to the the structures of systemic racism and colonialism on which it was founded, and because we've accepted the asinine "pendulum" premise that implies both sides (in this case, pro and anti racist) of any political axis are equally valid.

No one is claiming that men or white men are the problem per se except maybe some rage baiters online. Patriarchy and white supremacy are problems, however. Rape culture and toxic masculinity are problems. There are many aspects of our modern capitalist society in which the success of someone comes at the cost of another's failure, because it was designed to be so. And often, although not always, the current of oppression to power leads from female to male, and non-white to white. That's just a fact.

Speaking of MLK Jr, read what he had to say about well meaning white liberals. He thought they were worse than the Klan. The last thing he would have advocated was a "color-blind" way of seeing the world.

nobody99992• 9 months ago

Speaking of MLK Jr...The last thing he would have advocated was a "color-blind" way of seeing the world.

Where did you get that idea? Retcon much?

Doctor King said[0]:

   I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation 
   where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content 
   of their character. I have a dream today.

   I have a dream that one day down in Alabama with its vicious racists, with 
   its governor having his lips dripping with the words of interposition and 
   nullification, one day right down in Alabama little Black boys and Black 
   girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as 
   sisters and brothers. I have a dream today.

[0] https://www.npr.org/2010/01/18/122701268/i-have-a-dream-spee...

Edit: Added the missing link

Reply to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45850539 as I'm rate limited at the moment:

You said:

   The last thing he would have advocated was a "color-
   blind" way of seeing the world.

Which is ridiculous (your link[1] notwithstanding) on its face. Whether Dr. King meant six days from that speech or six centuries from that speech, he specifically called for a society that didn't care about melanin content.

Claiming that since we weren't there in 1963 and still aren't there -- meaning there's still work to be done -- doesn't invalidate or diminish the aspirational content of that speech, nor does it reduce the power and value of that aspiration.

While the article you linked claims that bigoted assholes have tried to hijack the words I quoted as "arguments" against efforts to bring real equality to all humans in the US, that doesn't make Dr. King's aspirations any less important or valuable.

I am nonplussed by your shallow dismissal of Dr. King -- whatever the reason. For shame!

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/colinseale/2020/01/20/mlks-i-ha...

Further replying to "Uncle Meat's comment" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45850601

If you only read this one thing then you might come away with this misunderstanding.
MLK supported reparations and other policies that explicitly provided for black people.

What misunderstanding? Of course MLK supported (and rightly so) a variety of things to make those who'd been oppressed, spit on, beaten, enslaved and murdered for centuries de facto full citizens and members of US society, not just de jure.

Once we've achieved that, then Doctor King's dream will be fulfilled. That I refer to his aspirations (which, sadly, GP blithely dismissed) isn't in conflict with the idea that until such a de facto state is achieved positive steps toward that (including, but not limited to, those advocated by Dr. King) are still required.

There is no dichotomy or cognitive dissonance here -- at least not for me.

====

Continuing the colloquy with krapp (specifically this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45850591 )

The tl;dr is that we aren't there yet, and pretending otherwise allows the status quo of systemic racism to persist unchallenged.

Where, exactly, did I say anything of the sort? I won't leave you in suspense -- I said nothing of the kind, nor did I imply anything like it.

Rather, I took issue with (my perception of at least) your shallow dismissal of Dr. King's aspiration. Especially as I share that aspiration and am quite in favor of achieving the goal he set out there.

No, we're not there yet. But that doesn't mean Dr. King was lying. It just means we have more work to do.

This part of the conversation is always tedious so I'll just post some articles and bow out.

Yes, this is quite tedious. Have a good day.

rexpop4• 9 months ago

... the left believes, or even phrases their policies to imply, that...

There's no meaningful "Left" policy in the US. We only have two Neoliberal parties. There's no "Leftist" Heritage Foundation, say. There's no PAC promoting socialized healthcare, for example.

This, frankly, strengthens your argument—the Democrats and mainstream liberalism don't espouse any feminist antipatriarchal ideology.

drdeca• 9 months ago

The meaning of a word or phrase within a community of speakers is determined by what is meant and understood when that word or phrase is used among that community of speakers.

You may have preferences about what certain words or phrases are used to mean, and that’s legitimate, and it furthermore is legitimate for you to pursue those preferences.

However, the previous commenter was not incorrect in using the phrase “the left” as they did. They were using it in a way that is a well established and understood way of using the phrase.

Now, I admit that I’ll sometimes feign misunderstanding when someone uses the word “literally” in ways counter to my preferences, so I’m noticing that my behavior might be slightly hypocritical. I could argue that I don’t say that their usage is “incorrect” or that they shouldn’t use the word as they do (indeed, I will typically state the opposite, that they aren’t “incorrect” or doing anything wrong by using it as they are), and therefore am not being hypocritical, but I’m not sure that’s compelling.

In any case, everyone knew what that person meant by “the left”, and I personally find this insistence on “correcting” that use of the term, to be a bit annoying. Though, of course, I recognize that you likely find the use in question of the phrase “the left” annoying. So, uh. Hm.

I’m not sure where that leaves us. I guess we’ll both just have to live with being occasionally annoyed, because I don't think we’ll be able to coordinate to change either behavior?

buckle8017• 9 months ago

We've constructed a society where an average man with an average job will get married, have kids, get divorced and spend the next decade working a job that doesn't materially or otherwise benefit him.

Is it really surprising that men are opting out?

munificent2• 9 months ago

Why are we so averse to identifying and celebrating what’s good about men and masculinity, and why does it matter? Because we won’t prosper if we convince boys and young men that they’re victims, or that they don’t have to be persistent and resilient, or that their perspective isn’t valuable. If we do, we’ll end up with a society of old people and zero economic growth.

It's much worse than that. History shows that young men are the free radicals of society. If a society doesn't have systems in place that enable them to form stable relationships with partners, peers, and esteemed communities, they will burn the thing to the ground out of rage at being thrown into a system that doesn't want them.

lesuorac• 9 months ago

Eh, society gave women a pretty shitty end of the stick and they took away everybody's alcohol for a bit in the US.

Any segment can be a free radical if given the motivation but right now the motivation is very heavily male dominated. Male employement is down like 15% while female employement is up nearly 30% [1].

[1] https://www.bls.gov/cps/demographics/women-labor-force.htm

Noumenon72• 9 months ago

In history they didn't have video games, porn, or mass surveillance of what you and your angry friends are getting up to. I would not expect things to play out by any historical pattern.

bluGill2• 9 months ago

They had plenty of porn like opportunities. Prostitutes are known throughout history. Usually a double standard where the males were accepted but females not

munificent2• 9 months ago

I agree that videogames and porn are effective pressure-release valves for this energy. Or perhaps sedatives is a better metaphor.

My pet theory about Gamergate was that it was in part a reaction from young men who felt disenfranchised by the offers mainstream society gave them. So they retreated to videogames and a virtual world where they could have some level of (virtual) success and esteem. And then when some women showed up there, they reacted with the anger you would expect from someone already driven out of one place and forced into a corner.

Even so, sedation and distraction only gets you so far. People want to feel that they have meaning and dignity in the real world, not just on their screens.

wakawaka286• 9 months ago

In historical times, rulers would also murder millions of people on suspicion of disloyalty. I think you overestimate the impact of video games and porn. Even if what you're saying is right, it's not better than some kind of violent correction. The trouble is that pushing young men to the point where violence is the answer wipes out all the rules. There will probably be a lot of collateral damage.

moomin• 9 months ago

Thinking there’s a lot of true things in here being pulled into a narrative that doesn’t really make sense in context. Not saying young men don’t have problems, but even with all those problems they’re still earning ten percent more than women in the same age bracket.

twiclo2• 9 months ago

No one is going to take you seriously if your argument is the tired, long debunked, wage gap argument. Women make less than men because they choose to. In recent years when you compare single working men to single working women, women are out-earning men. They're graduating college at higher rates.

There are countless other statistics that paint a clear picture that men are struggling. At what point will you actually care?

cauch2• 9 months ago

No one is going to take you seriously if your argument is the very reductive "because they choose to" (being tongue-in-cheek here, don't take it seriously)

It is very clear that public image has a huge impact on what people choose. For example, people who consider themselves introvert choose, in majority, to avoid fields that have a strong extrovert vibe. Similarly, people will tend to not choose fields if the field "gives a vibe" they don't feel they belong to. So, if there is an initial bias toward men, the fact that some people don't choose the field is in no way a proof that there is no bias.

I agree that the 10% number is not the best, but the "corrected" number where you take the samples in same job and position does the same mistake. In fact, there are arguments that in these cases, you have a selection bias (some of the men in the field are seeing this field as their calling, but some of the men are just doing it as a job without being overly passionated, while the women that are not overly passionated just don't choose this job) and that using this methodology, women should overperform because there is a gap. The "real" number is probably in between.

michaelt• 9 months ago

they’re still earning ten percent more than women in the same age bracket.

Both things can be true.

To use an exaggerated example, if you pay the top 20% of people six figures and leave the bottom 80% to starve, the average earnings would look great, but you’ll soon have an angry mob on your hands.

Now imagine if your average man used to be able to do skilled factory work and support a family, but those jobs have gone and growth sectors like care don’t pay enough to support a family.

Then imagine an electoral system where a 4% margin separates the winner and the loser. Doesn’t take 80% of the population being disaffected to flip the results.

cauch2• 9 months ago

I think that you are right, but what is the worse (illustrative numbers):

- 70% of men being allowed to get 20$ and 30% being excluded from this opportunity and getting only 5$

- 100% of women being excluded from the opportunity to get 20$ and getting only 12$

Sure, the excluded women gets more than the excluded men, but it is also very unfair that men have 70% chance to "make it" while women have 0% chance to "make it".

Not saying one is worse than the other (and it is illustrative numbers anyway), but just to illustrate that 1. in both cases, looking at only one metric is not enough, 2. at the end, the answer is not really "objective" or "mathematical", and two persons can reach different conclusions based on their values.

UncleMeat2• 9 months ago

People usually compare median wages. "It's a few highly paid men skewing things" isn't what the data says.

wakawaka286• 9 months ago

Men and women have different preferences. Men work hard to basically have money to spend on women (who demand that men make more), and women have the preference to have kids and experiences rather than straight cash. Young women generally make more than young men, and get better and more comfortable jobs.

close04• 9 months ago

There are some problems brewing in society for quite some time now. A demographic for which things changed too much, too fast, and not at all for the better will sooner or later react in a way nobody will like.

I remember reading an article [0] a few years ago that was surprising at first and then when I looked around it wasn’t so surprising anymore.

[0] https://ofboysandmen.substack.com/p/why-boys-and-men

vharuck• 9 months ago

I haven't read that book, but I might now. It's refreshing to see such a realistic assessment of the problems. IMO, the most important line from that page:

The problems of boys and men are structural in nature, rather than individual; but are rarely treated as such.

This is why shame does nothing productive, whether it's shaming boys for displaying "masculine" traits or displaying "feminine" traits. We can't address a social problem by asking every individual to change. That's just not feasible, even if there weren't a "man-o-sphere" and "radical feminism movement" working against it. Heck, even if the root problem was a personal one that each man could solve for himself, our options would still be a society-wide solution or tossing our hands up in resignation and hoping for the best.

afavour5• 9 months ago

As a man in my 40s I do wonder how I'd fare as a 17 year old today. Back in my teenage years I was deeply awkward, spent a ton of time in my room on my computer (IRC, baby!) and was pretty directionless. Eventually I realised that I needed to do something. Talk to girls. Absolutely crashed and burned the first few times I did it but slowly got better. I started attending the parties kids in my school were throwing rather than sitting at home all night.

But there wasn't a highly motivated and profitable enterprise targeted at me telling me I was a victim. If the "manosphere" existed back then and I was plugged into all the podcasts telling me how the modern world hates men and treats us all unfairly I might have never left that bubble and would have probably spiraled into bitterness. I can't help but feel like we've cursed younger generations (both genders, different effects) with social media and the influencer economy that has a financial interest in their continued isolation.

ryuhhnn• 9 months ago

Every time the author mentions a problem that young men face, he explains it away by saying that it stems from a society that's built against serving the needs of men, even though the outcomes affect women all the same. He mentions the college debt crisis and it's affects on men merely one breath after explaining that women outnumber men in higher education. The housing affordability crisis is also not exclusive to men. Workforce participation of men can also be explained by relaxed gender roles and more women entering the workforce while their male counterparts take on domestic work. Pretty much the only thing he rightfully identifies as a uniquely male issue is suicide. Nobody is averse to identifying the issues that men face, but be correct in what you're identifying as a uniquely male issue. This author has been making the rounds in popular culture lately and I can't help but feel like it's because he's offering an oversimplified solution to a problem that runs much deeper than how we treat men and young boys. Society consistently asks women and non-White people to take ownership of their own problems, why can't we ask the same of men?

IncreasePosts2• 9 months ago

Not only are more women in college, but average starting salary out of college is $12k more for men than women: https://www.naceweb.org/job-market/compensation/nace-researc...

Women also on average go into slightly more debt: https://educationdata.org/student-loan-debt-by-gender

bradlys3• 9 months ago

Yeah, says it right there: women choose lower paying professions. That’s literally all it is.

The pay gap mostly has to do with what careers women choose. Most men and women earn the same given the same credentials, years of experience, and job.

wakawaka286• 9 months ago

Pretty much the only thing he rightfully identifies as a uniquely male issue is suicide.

Haha you must be a woman. Men are more severely punished in court for the same crimes, disproportionately lose assets and custody in divorce, get discriminated against at work on DEI terms, go to college less than ever (maybe a good idea, but opposite stats would trigger outrage), and yes they even get less sex on average. They are constantly told that women don't need or want them, they have a ton of privilege (even as they struggle). If you stand up for yourself as a man, people call you a lot of nasty names like "incel" or "Nazi".

This author has been making the rounds in popular culture lately and I can't help but feel like it's because he's offering an oversimplified solution to a problem that runs much deeper than how we treat men and young boys.

Honestly I could not get through this article. This guy is being promoted by somebody. There are far better voices for men out there who don't mince words when describing the problems men face.

Society consistently asks women and non-White people to take ownership of their own problems, why can't we ask the same of men?

Overwhelmingly women and minorities have been promoted literally at the expense of men. Companies give bonuses for checking off boxes, and skirt the law to put white men down. Society is not one monolithic voice. While some people have told everyone to take responsibility for themselves, the dominant political regime for perhaps the past 30-50 years (and by far much worse in the past 15 or so) has been favoring women over men on average. You can't talk about men's issues without first apologizing to women who have never seen anything but positive favoritism from the system, yet think they are oppressed. The same statement applies to the everyone vs. white men dynamic.

At some point, being mean to specific groups such as white men, or men in general, is going to backfire. But I expect the system to try to preempt that and force the issue, to further vilify the actual victims here.

16594470912• 9 months ago

Men are more severely punished in court for the same crimes

Not the Op, but this is simply wrong for domestic killings

The majority of women who kill their partner do so in self-defense after having endured abuse from that partner. After the system fails them and the abuse finally breaks them the courts hand down ~15 year sentences[*]. When the guy's abuse end's up killing a female partner/family member, he gets around 2-6 years, because the female made him super mad and he lost control.

Agreed on the custody and asset cases needing an overhaul years ago.

But saying men have it unfair because females are defaulted to in (civil, not criminal) custody cases screwing over the guys that actually want to show up, and ignoring how women are screwed in criminal self-defense domestic killings compared to mens rage/hate/power-trip domestic killings -- is really stretching that unfair tag

[*] Don't have time to find a stat link, but its widely known and published in news articles on the topic, studies etc that come up in a basic search

bradlys3• 9 months ago

The three issues that I think affect men more:

1. blue collar jobs (mostly men) aren’t abundant. Simply put, we’re not building much of anything in the US. So, why would they be. Tech is mostly men but is importing most of the labor (at least for Silicon Valley). So, tech isn’t helping American men.

2. Dating norms have completely changed. Looks have become a much bigger percentage of the reason why women choose their partner than ever before. Dating apps being the main way for educated grads to meet partners is just a symptom - not the cause. Looksism was taking off before apps caught fire - the apps just accelerated it.

3. Costs have skyrocketed while expectations around men being providers have not changed. While there are a decent amount of men who probably are toxically attached to some idea of being a provider - most men I’ve met would kill for a wife who made significantly more than them. Men typically hate working too. Almost all have resigned and have just accepted that the only way she will contribute is either by her parents giving a ton of money or she will work her job that pays nowhere near as much as his. There are, of course, a good amount of similarly earning couples but for single men - you’re not often choosing your equal when out dating. Hypergamy, etc.

teddyh• 9 months ago

fud101• 9 months ago

Galloway is a zionist, I lost complete respect for him that I had upto to that point. I was a former Pivot listener etc. Guy is a joke.

silexia• 9 months ago

Discrimination against men is at epic proportions and is justified by falsified studies showing a wage gap that does not exist.

The American government is picking winners at very high rates. If you are a native American, here's money and jobs and special rights. If you're a black woman, here is a paid for down payment and mortgage, highly paid jobs, etc.

We need to shrink the government dramatically to get back our individual rights and freedoms. Or young men will continue to opt out of the unfair game.

satisfice• 9 months ago

Any solution that doesn’t offer men maximum power will be ignored. Any solution that doesn’t address our capacity for violence is irrelevant.

Notes on Being a Man

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