Tin Can – The landline, reinvented for kids

by derwiki • 1 year ago

197 131 1 year ago

clutch89• 1 year ago

Love everything about this!

floren4• 1 year ago

Highly, highly, highly recommend you enable 911 calls by default on all plans -- let parents disable it if they want. Cell phones do this, even without a SIM card. Don't gate safety for $9.99/mo.

Edit: "The FCC requires that providers of interconnected VoIP telephone services using the Public Switched Telephone Network (PSTN) meet Enhanced 911 (E911) obligations." https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/voip-and-911-service

Also "911 Services: Providers of "interconnected" VoIP services – which allow users generally to make calls to and receive calls from the regular telephone network – do have 911 service obligations" https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/voice-over-internet-pro...

ars4• 1 year ago

Is it possible to call 911 from a phone that doesn't have an incoming phone number assigned?

turnsout7• 1 year ago

Yes, because you can pull the SIM card out of a cellphone and dial 911.

lucaslazarus• 1 year ago

Yes, because cell phones can do it even without a SIM card

davideg• 1 year ago

This is a really good point, though E911 probably costs the provider something. I wonder if they could offer 911 support at actual cost ($1-2/month).

eterm• 1 year ago

probably costs the provider something

Yes, So what? Eat the cost.

Any life saved was worth it.

neilv2• 1 year ago

Yeah, that jumped out at me. If you're doing something that looks like a phone, just do 911, always, even if you're losing money by doing that.

turnsout7• 1 year ago

It's not arbitrary—if you look at your cellphone bill, there's a tax for 911 access. They could probably offer a cheaper plan with just 911, but they can't make it free. But I think $9.99 is fair all things considered.

I'm not sure I see the safety issue. My 7 year-old currently doesn't have the ability to dial 911 without an adult's cellphone. If I give them a Tin Can that has no 911, they are no more or less safe than they were before.

ars4• 1 year ago

they are no more or less safe than they were before.

I disagree. They think they can call 911 from it, so in an emergency they will try that, and fail, and try again (because things fail all the time in today's world), wasting a ton of time.

Without this device they would try some other plan, maybe go outside and scream for a passerby to help.

J_McQuade• 1 year ago

I kinda get why they think they don't want to enable this, but when I was a kid I once called 999 (in the UK) as a joke and let me tell you it was only once. My friends and I were there in the room watching films that we shouldn't and the uniformed and kitted-out Constables turned up and gave us an incredibly stern dressing-down about 30 minutes later.

Luckily, I am in the UK where a bunch of 12 year olds who've just watched Scream calling the police about shadows doesn't result in something getting shot, but still - I think I learned something about actions and consequences that day.

dylan604• 1 year ago

Way back when, my toddler loved to play with the cordless phone, and just happened to be able to dial 911. a lot. We'd realize a connection was made but not who was on the other end and just hang up. Eventually, 911 called back inquiring why so many hang ups and if someone needed help. I was surprised they took our explanation without dispatching someone to follow up. Maybe that's different now as I know my city has a policy of all calls require a follow up even if it's hours to next day later when they know it's not an emergency

gerdesj2• 1 year ago

What is bloody annoying is that you can't even test 999. When you set up a PBX it would be nice to know that it would work via the obvious way of actually calling it.

Surely it would be possible to create a test version which gets terminated by a computer instead of hassling an operator - you could send DTMF codes or something similar to indicate a test.

I suspect that there is a little more to your story. Probably that the fuzz had some spare capacity at the time and decided to do an educational exercise on you lot - which worked nicely. Nowadays you hear about all sorts of daft 999 calls - there is a TV programme about it.

Now we are moving into the SOGEA era in the UK. That's where we have "glass" phone lines (FTTP) that don't supply power but have jolly fast internets. 2025 is the year that the copper network gets shut down, except that it wont be! Oh and we will all be using VOIP ie SIP n RTP. The final pretense of circuit switching will trot off into the sunset and be bundled behind a green tent and a single shot will be heard.

danpalmer• 1 year ago

I did this too at the age of 4. Apparently fireman Sam doesn't take phone calls, but the operator was very kind and didn't berate me or my parents for it.

ortusdux2• 1 year ago

I vaguely recall that there was a time when cellphone companies were required to provide free 911 access. People that only wanted a phone for emergencies were advised to get one and not pay for service because it could still dial 911.

actionfromafar• 1 year ago

I think that still is the case in Europe?

spicybright2• 1 year ago

It's still the case now for sure on cell networks that are still active that your phone can reach. At least in the US.

timcederman• 1 year ago

Has been true for as long as I've had a cell phone (coming up to 30 years).

emrehan• 1 year ago

FCC has rules for calling 911, and many state statutes reinforce or extend FCC rules.

Tin Can is probably not bound by these rules, but it looks like a phone and works like a phone. In an emergency where seconds matter, it better not fail anyone.

Enabling 911 calls for all could not only save lives, but also save the company from lawsuits.

mathiaspoint• 1 year ago

I'm surprised they do 911 at all. My Canadian VoIP provider doesn't do it and my understanding is that it's relatively difficult to do.

xpe5• 1 year ago

Yes! I am not a lawyer, but I know many… In addition to steering clear of legal issues, demonstrating overall decency is the right thing to do. In terms of $, customers have already spent money on the company’s hardware devices.

turnsout7• 1 year ago

This is really cool—love the branding, concept and even the price point.

My cynical side thinks there's probably unlimited money to be made taking items from Millennials' youth and marketing it to their kids on a subscription model (I realize there's a subscription-free way to use Tin Can).

digi604• 1 year ago

Why subscription service on top?

saubeidl• 1 year ago

Companies like making money.

ars4• 1 year ago

The covers the cost of calling actual phone numbers, which probably does cost the company something.

The direct calls are free, and don't have a fee, because those go over the internet.

wrs• 1 year ago

Making real phone calls costs real money.

JKCalhoun2• 1 year ago

Bestie has a Tin Can? Free calling to other Tin Cans is included for every device, no subscription required.
Subject to a valid account & our terms of service.

Yeah, subscription aside (though that alone is a deal-breaker for me) I don't like it requiring an account.

Might there be a way that an open-software/hardware device could simply have a person enter, what, a friend's IP address to make a call? Or is there more middleware required to connect the two VoIP?

averageRoyalty• 1 year ago

Or is there more middleware required to connect the two VoIP?

You need an address of record to translate 111222333 to an actual deliverable location, like a PBX. You can do without it in a software solution, but in the age of NAT having a TURN server is highly advised.

I don't like it requiring an account.

Remember the value proposition here is for kids calling trusted contacts. You could absolutely and easily build your own VoIP network with Asterisk etc.

bigyabai• 1 year ago

Neat, but is this one of those things that becomes plastic e-waste the moment you stop supporting the service connecting it?

floren4• 1 year ago

Of course!

"†Lifetime calling subject to continued availability of our services, a valid account, and our terms of service."

Unless they open it up enough that you can change the VOIP server it uses.

ars4• 1 year ago

Agreed, I would be much more likely to buy this if I had some kind of assurance it would not stop working.

Maybe instead of a flat $75, charge $5/month for the first 15 months.

JKCalhoun2• 1 year ago

Someone should open source something similar.

Why is everyone looking at me? I'm busy obsessing over how to bring BBS's back.

ceocoder• 1 year ago

Love it!

To quote Dennis Duffy - The Beeper King - technology is cyclical!

https://youtu.be/bzm53FAo_q0?si=GNAiR_fgfL3xHNFX

darepublic• 1 year ago

nostalgia as a service

Nevermark• 1 year ago

If there was an adapter version, for real old school phones, that would be fun.

There are so many real old school styles. [0]

[0] https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=vintage+phone&_sacat=0&...

[0] https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=scooby+phone&_sacat=0&_...

kevmo• 1 year ago

You'd be better off just activating a real landline and not using an app.

sugarpimpdorsey• 1 year ago

Is this just an ad for a VoIP service?

Your residential internet provider will probably already sell you VoIP that you can plug a real phone into.

Put that old hamburger phone to good use.

derwiki3• 1 year ago

I wouldn’t call it an ad because I’m unaffiliated. I thought it was a neat techie gadget that other HN readers might enjoy.

tiagod5• 1 year ago

And Dropbox is just rsync.

The value is in the app for the parents. I would pay $10 not to deal with shitty VoIP interfaces.

derwiki3• 1 year ago

Several comments in this thread give "Dropbox is just rsync" vibes. I'm curious how many of the commenters suggesting to DIY understand that having small children means essentially no free time to hack on something like that.

eszed3• 1 year ago

I've set up voip instances, and not liked it, but would be willing to do it again for my kid. I'd not be willing to set them up (and be tech support!) for all of his friends' families. That's the value proposition here, for me.

We've got a group of parents around us who'd likewise like to delay their kids' smartphone access for as long as possible - but if a smartphone (or even a dumbphone with no meaningful parental controls) is the only way for kiddo to make calls, then I know some of them will defect. Selling them all on this kit (or something like it) would keep the agreement intact for a while longer.

nickpsecurity2• 1 year ago

It really isn't. I got my login for dropbox, installed it on some machines, and it was just click upload or download from there. Crwating and using folders was much like on my desktop.

For rsync, a person would have to study it to learn it. They might want to look for potential gotchas in how they configure it, too. The experts at Dropbox already did all that for us, though.

stevage• 1 year ago

This has number whitelisting, and also no monthly fee.

bityard• 1 year ago

For technical parents, you can do this with a SIP server, a pair of ATAs, and of course the phones. No subscription needed.

spankalee• 1 year ago

For those of us who are aware that these things exist, but now how they all integrate: how do you go from SIP server to actual phone service?

Are you meaning that the SIP server is shared by all the friends in the network who want to talk to each other, or that you can get phone service via the SIP server?

My dad worked on a lot of VOIP equipment in his career, so I always kind of wanted to do this, but don't like the $10/month for something almost never used, and got my kid a phone anyway because the portability and camera are pretty key. We just control the phone so that it acts like a land-line. I might be templated to do a VOIP setup for the house any if were easy enough.

freddie_mercury2• 1 year ago

It's a little bit hard to figure out from the marketing but...is this just a regular old VOIP phone for $75 + $10/month? The same that Vonage, Ooma, axvoice, voiply, and others offer? Sometimes your ISP will even give it to you free or very cheap (we have it free with ours but don't have a phone plugged in to it).

__float2• 1 year ago

Do these services have anything like the easy-to-use allowlist feature? There seems to be some value in the parent-friendly angle here.

lukas0993• 1 year ago

Man, I like this idea but I also really love this website.

bja• 1 year ago

This just seems like another VOIP service wrapped in nostalgia. There are MANY cheaper and better options. I say this because I recently added a VOIP line for exactly this reason to give my kids a way to call their friends without a smart phone.

Here are many good options https://www.ooma.com/blog/home-phone/best-voip-service-for-h...

turnsout7• 1 year ago

Keep in mind, the main use case is allowing kids to call their friends and family and no one else.

VoIP nerds out there, is there any simple PFSense equivalent for VoIP that would allow you to DIY this? Basically restrict inbound and outbound calls to a whitelist?

wffurr2• 1 year ago

Some of the providers on that link have “allowlist” as a feature, but I am curious how easy it is to manage. The parent app seems like the real value proposition here.

subhro2• 1 year ago

Yes, get a trunk from someone like BulkVS, SignalWire and run your own freeswitch or asterix. You can set up arbitrary “allowed” lists. Hell you can even get fancy with lookups and decide on the fly to allow a call or not.

There are other comments about providers, but my way is way cheaper and you can run you EPBAX on a pi or even get a pre made VM from Azure, Amazon, etc.

Damn I hate paying rent.

freddie_mercury2• 1 year ago

Why is preventing them from calling other people an important feature? The market for people who care about that sounds extremely tiny.

lozf• 1 year ago

You might like FreePBX[0] for a PFSense-style "PBX appliance" with easy WebUI. Just grab the ISO (or shell script to install on Debian). It's built on Asterisk, and more than adequate for the task. Whilst FreeSWITCH is awesome it's way more complex and overkill for this use case.

[0] https://freepbx.org

wffurr2• 1 year ago

How easy is it to manage the calling allowlist for those providers? That seems to be the key value proposition here; the parent app that controls the allowlist.

scosman• 1 year ago

And that’s fine. It’s cute. It’s fun. Looks like they are optimizing for UX, design, and marketing.

S04dKHzrKT• 1 year ago

Make note of the privacy policy[1]. Some users may not like the data they collect.

Information Collected from Children: As detailed in Section 3.C, we collect voice audio during calls, call log information, and utilize the Parent-provided contact list in relation to the Child's use of the Tin Can Device. We may also collect device identifiers and technical usage data related to the Service.

[1] https://tincan.kids/policies/privacy-policy

neilv2• 1 year ago

Yeah, this was buried under a section about "child users". I don't know how that's legal in a two-party consent state.

C. Information Related to Child Users (Collected via the Service):
Voice Audio Data: Audio data transmitted during calls made or received on the Tin Can Device.

Between this, and the civil and possibly regulatory liability of having 911 not necessarily work, this company might end up blowing their runway and more on lawyers.

lukas0993• 1 year ago

It also says,

This includes the real-time transmission of voice packets necessary for the call to function. If voicemail features are implemented, this includes recorded voicemail greetings and messages.

So maybe it is “collecting” the data only in these limited capacities? (which seem necessary for the thing to function)

intull• 1 year ago

It's really frustrating now that for every product/service, we have to go through the privacy policy carefully, especially when they're being written in increasingly generic verbiage. We pay for the product/service upfront or as a subscription, then a subscription for additional features, and on top of all that, agree to sell all our data and souls too. And Tech does all this blindly while gaslighting itself that "it's making the world a better place."

legitster• 1 year ago

I really like this idea, but I have 3 pieces of feedback:

1. I love the idea, but I do not love the pricing. $10 a month for something you can get for free with a Voip box is tough to justify.

2. It looks like they are refitting "antique" phones for their Flashback model. If they just sold the standalone Voip kit with their service wrapped around it, then we could find our our vintage hardware to use.

3. Realistically, 90% of the time my son would be on this would be to voice chat while playing Minecraft. So knowing that it has a decent speakerphone would be nice.

ipython• 1 year ago

What voip service allows free calling to/from pstn? Without an app filled with ads?

ortusdux2• 1 year ago

It should play the dialup handshake every now and then.

wizzwizz43• 1 year ago

That would be terrifying.

idkwhattocallme2• 1 year ago

The local public elementary school blocked all chat programs on student chromebooks. The 3rd graders figured out that they could chat with another in a shared google doc. They had thousands of pages of chat before the teacher finally put an end to it. The teacher only found out because a kid shared that it was getting unruly during class. I share this because most kids have an ipad and are digital communication natives. This landline concept is like puting a lid back on a can of worms.

derwiki3• 1 year ago

3rd grade, sure. This seems like a great fit for my 3 year old and her friends who don't have unfettered iPad access.

idkwhattocallme2• 1 year ago

A landline for a 3 year old to communicate with her friends. lol

anotherhue• 1 year ago

Google Wave!

floren4• 1 year ago

I only used Wave a little (because my netbook was far, far too underpowered to work properly with it) but I really really enjoyed it for both serious collaboration and random bullshitting with my friends. Haven't seen anything comparable since.

addisonj• 1 year ago

I am experiencing a strong sense of "why didn't I think of that" while also really hoping it isn't another strong, family friendly concept that gets quickly enshittified for profit.

Seriously, kudos, for a great concept, good website, and really, not that bad of pricing. Sure you can do it cheaper DIY... but where is the fun in putting an office-styled VOIP capable phone in a kid's bedroom? (though converting an old-phone to tunnel over VOIP sounds like a fun weekend project to do with my pre-teen)

But... dang, does it feel like yet another thing that will start great and get terrible over time or just dropped and be e-waste. Kid cell-phone plans that don't give me choice of provider, youth-focused budgeting/saving apps that are 4x more expensive than just a classic bank account and require an app to effectively use, and by far, worst of all, all the "kid" versions of tablets, youtube kids (which I can never get to not show ads even though I pay for premium!), that claim to give parents control... but really just seem like the minimum effort to make parents feel like they are putting in guardrails while still being designed to maximize the addiction early.

While I am really glad we are trying to build tech that helps kids have a better relationship each other while still using technology... it seems like most still fall to pressure of profit and either term into extremely over-priced offering that is hard to justify or can't make it and turn into junk with no re-use.

Once again, this product, right now, does not look to be that... but now having been bit a few times, I am much more cautious and either worry it will become e-waste or the price jacked up by 3x what it is today.

20after4• 1 year ago

Demand free software, open hardware and "right to repair". Capitalism with proprietary lock-in is ruining everything.

TimTheTinker3• 1 year ago

There's a cheaper alternative, if you don't mind some manual setup:

- buy an ethernet -> phone adapter (Grandstream, Cisco, and Poly sell these) and a cheap analog phone.

- get an inexpensive VoIP number[0] and set up the phone adapter to log into the service you set up.

- set up a Google Voice[1] number if you haven't already. When you want to make an outgoing call, use the Google Voice app to initiate a call to your VoIP number[2] -- that way you're technically receiving the call there, so it's cheaper or free, depending on your plan.

[0] CallCentric has a $3/month plan that gives you free incoming calls and e911 service: https://www.callcentric.com/faq/46/529. This works well if you initiate outgoing calls via the Google Voice app.

[1] As of 2023, Google Voice doesn't work directly with Obitalk VoIP service anymore, or with any other VoIP devices :(

[2] if you need to let kids make outgoing calls via Google Voice unattended, set up the Google Voice app on an old iOS device in Guided Access mode and plug it in next to the analog phone. (But make sure they know to make 911 calls using the phone itself, not the GVoice app. I suggest printing a "Emergency: call 911 on this phone" label and putting it on the back of the handset.

TMWNN2• 1 year ago

[flagged]

tomhow• 1 year ago

Why is it that there are always, always, ALWAYS super geniuses like you and bja and others who rush to ACKSHUALLY provide "alternatives" that aren't actually alternatives?

Please avoid fulminating or sneering like this on HN, it's clearly against the guidelines.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

TimTheTinker3• 1 year ago

Look, people fall into all sorts of categories based on various individual characteristics. There is no one-size-fits-all solution. It sounds like maybe you don't like seeing ideas that aren't best for you?

Let me encourage you to just keep scrolling if someone's idea doesn't fit you personally.

xpe5• 1 year ago

Maybe I’m going out on a limb here?… Even this thrifty and most excellent (party on Garth!) 3 to 17 step process might slightly reduce adoption by the target audience: kids.

aspenmayer• 1 year ago

I guess we’re gonna have to teach those kids to read the fine manual. (I agree with you entirely in this case. Show them easy mode then if they want a challenge they can do hard mode.)

randombits0• 1 year ago

Set up a couple of ip phones to connect to the other every off-hook, no dialing. Think Batman Batphone!

privatelypublic• 1 year ago

Voip.ms is $0.50/mo per DID. After that billing is either an unlimited plan or per minute.

RajT88• 1 year ago

Not going to host a SIP server?

Geez this place has gone downhill.

znkynz• 1 year ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863

pimlottc• 1 year ago

This doesn’t include the whitelisting for incoming and outgoing calls, which is a prominent feature.

schwartzworld• 1 year ago

That was my thought. Magic Jack basically does the same thing but cheaper and better.

jonah-archive3• 1 year ago

Huh, I was just thinking about something sort of like this after camping with some friends and our kids this weekend -- we brought FRS walkie-talkies for all of them (cannot recommend this enough!) and on the drive home my four-year-old was asking if he could call his friends on the radio -- rather than getting him a Technician's I was thinking about finding or making some push-to-talk cell/wifi devices for them. It seems like a few of these things exist but they're marketed toward the enterprise (in at least some cases, with a family-style product unfortunately but unsurprisingly being discontinued: https://relaypro.com/families/ ), but it doesn't seem like it would be a hard build aside from making a durable/kid-friendly enclosure for it.

usmanity• 1 year ago

you could try GMRS over FRS which ends up having more range and only costs $35 for a 10 year license (no test / certification needed). I was recently trying both types of handheld walkie talkies and the FRS range was almost 1/5th the range that GMRS was able to do

jonah-archive3• 1 year ago

alas, his friends are a couple hundred miles away so GMRS won't cut it. The GMRS-enabled radios are much, much better though

c22• 1 year ago

You're making me nostalgic for my old Nextel handset(s).

jonah-archive3• 1 year ago

Right?? This was the closest modern thing I was able to find but the price point isn't there for a kid radio: https://rapidradios.com

password4321• 1 year ago

Apple watches work as walkie-talkies with separate accounts and paired phones. I used a retired iPhone 8 and eBay'd a watch for ~$40.

CGamesPlay• 1 year ago

Can I get this for an elderly relative who has dementia? Scam calls were stressing her out (she doesn't have any ability to lose any assets, but the pressure they put on her stresses her out), so we took her phone. But we would love the ability to call her on a whim.

Terr_• 1 year ago

I've seen some similar products (controlled devices for vulnerable seniors) in the form of smart-watches, which have the advantage of being harder to misplace and more likely to be available in an emergency.

Now, whether the limitations of that form-factor/platform are worth it is a harder question.

kondro• 1 year ago

Yes?

paxys• 1 year ago

Neat product for the nostalgia factor but the pricing is atrocious.

A plastic receiver retails for $10 or less. The exact one they are selling is $18 (https://telephones.att.com/pd/200/210M-Black-Trimline-Corded...). They want $75.

VoIP is ~free (Facetime, Google Meet, WhatsApp, Messenger and a hundred others).

Saying "but it's for kids!" is a business strategy, sure, but charging $75 for the device + a $10/mo subscription for no reason is a bit too far.

zargon• 1 year ago

There was an article about kids and landline phones posted recently:

Kids Love Landline Phones - 70 comments - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43105961

Seems like someone decided to productize such an idea.

_spduchamp• 1 year ago

I setup a VoIP.ms number with call extensions for the family and gave my kid a phone. They never use that phone because all the friends are on Messenger Kids.

Our Uniden walkies get a lot more use. Calling into the shed, or kitchen to upstairs, or across the street to neighbours.

nielsbot• 1 year ago

It would be funny if this was a magical ethernet-connected RJ45 phone jack you could mount anywhere. And then you could plug in an old Western Electric phone if you wanted to. (Or otherwise buy a new one from Tin Can)

alnwlsn• 1 year ago

I thought this was going to be about the old trick of wiring two land-line phones in series with a 9V battery, which allows them to talk to each other when both are off hook, over short distances anyways - like an electronic version of the string and two cans.

neodymiumm• 1 year ago

Love it, just ordered two of the flashback models! To me, the killer feature is the whitelist for incoming and outgoing calls. Is anyone aware of a VoIP provider that offers this? Ooma has a contacts-only calling feature, but 1) only on their Premier plan that costs $10/month plus taxes and fees, and 2) it’s not clear that it also restricts outgoing calls. I have not found any such feature listed for Vonage or Verizon’s digital voice, to name a few.

Tin Can – The landline, reinvented for kids

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