The Shape of the Essay Field

by luisb • 1 year ago

67 43 1 year ago

The essay form is a tool. It is not a silver bullet that always leads to insight and it is not always the best tool for the job.

The content in this essay applies just as well to YouTube videos and TikToks.

zigman1• 1 year ago

I find the analogy with the car in the beginning a bit weird. He says it is not important to know, and only a handful of readers will learn something from it.

But later he states that "the essay is something you write to figure something out". So why contemplating about the audience and how important it is to them in the first place?

Maybe I was nudged because I enjoy reading and listening knowledgeable people about (classic) cars, but i wonder if pg would make the same statement if the subject of the essay would be a computer science technicality or obscurity.

barrkel• 1 year ago

When PG started out talking about three reasons you might not know something, I paused and thought what they might be aside from unimportance, to see how at lined up.

I came up with difficulty, opportunity and motivation.

If an idea is difficult or non-obvious, if it requires insight or following the steps of a particular argument, many people of any age may remain ignorant of it. You could kind of force this into the obtuse bucket, but in my experience people are less obtuse, than slow. Obtuse, as a label, is mostly a way of lazily flipping the bozo bit and cutting your losses.

And if you don't encounter an idea or concept or piece of knowledge, you won't know it. If it's useful, you may just have accepted a worldview without that use. This kind of ignorance isn't just inexperience. It can be learned helplessness too.

Motivation is an axis that isn't fully orthogonal to the others. Motivation can overcome difficulty, and encourage searching and testing behavior which gets you to opportunity.

I'm not sure, having read the essay, that PG's perspective is more correct. I think obtuseness is too reductive, and inexperience strikes me as more plausible as a reason an essay might be impactful, optimizing for one reason for ignorance, than a reason for not knowing the topic of any given essay if it's not general common sense.

On impact: I think something is likely to be more impactful the more ignorant you are about the topic were beforehand (the distance between what you knew before and after reading), multiplied by how motivated you are (which is related but distinct from importance: you can be motivated by stamp collecting or trainspotting). Your motivation is generally split among competing motivations the older you get; you can't afford focused monomania like a teenager.

A big dose of information isn't likely to shift your momentum (getting close to physical impact) when it's just a glancing blow, rather than hitting it head on.

Anyway, it sure is impactful to tell the kids stuff. I think we already knew this though.

dswalter• 1 year ago

Your response is more textured and interesting than the OP's, even though we are all posting on the website from his company.

Lalo-ATX• 1 year ago

I think Kahneman's Thinking, Fast and Slow can add a useful perspective.

In the Kahneman hypothesis, humans are naturally parsimonious with our mental energy, preferring to use System 1. If we are writing a good essay, we are investing real System 2 effort. When we read someone else's writing, we get a free ride.

Difficulty and (lack of) motivation in your schema drives people towards System 1.

I agree that "obtuseness" is too reductive. There are copious examples of people who have had brilliant insights through the application of their System 2, who go on to embarrass themselves with shoddy System 1 thinking. Anyone can be obtuse - or not - it's just not a clear category.

yawnxyz• 1 year ago

Everyone's young in some way.

I've been looking at getting a Miata, and have been eyeing a nice 2016ish Miata because their prices seem so much lower.

Then I read a post from someone saying their transmissions are "like glass" and how it's better off to pay a few more $k for a 2017+ car, b/c that's how much a new transmission would cost anyway.

If everyone were to follow Paul's advice, these kinds of posts would never have been written because you're supposed to "only write what people want"

This 2016 Miata thing is a widely known thing in Miata circles — I just didn't know about it.

blast• 1 year ago

"Posts" is a more general category than "essays". A post about Miata transmission years sounds useful. An essay about it sounds boring.

rogerkirkness• 1 year ago

PSA: I did a similar thing using Claude about buying a 2012-2016 era Ford F150 and it was so good at providing information like this about each model year. I went with a 2014 since the V8 was most mature and 2012-2013 issues resolved, and got there in 2 minutes instead of having to surf through forums for hours.

mecsred• 1 year ago

I really don't think learning to rely on these tools for product review is a good idea. The web shows how much gravity the advertising industry has. As soon as the number of people using llms like this become statistically significant, you can bet product placement will find its way into the training data. Betting on enshittification is easy money.

screye• 1 year ago

Claude only knows it because someone wrote this stuff somewhere

LLMs are running off other people's good will

dadrian• 1 year ago

You should absolutely buy a Miata. I have a 2021 Miata and it's one of the best decisions I ever made.

beambot• 1 year ago

Essays are different media compared to comments on message boards, reddit, or hacker news... You don't need the former if the latter will suffice.

doctoring• 1 year ago

I think this essay touches on but slightly conflates "younger" with "inexperienced". Younger people are inexperienced at more things in life, sure. But if you write essays about things that are new to the world (new technologies? events? societal changes?) then even older people may be inexperienced with it and could learn something, something that surprises the author and the reader.

piinbinary• 1 year ago

At the other extreme, writing merely puts into words something readers were already thinking — or thought they were.

I actually really like this end of the essay spectrum.

Reading (and writing!) this kind of essay can tie together mental loose threads, finishing a nearly-complete bit of thinking, finally coalescing a bunch of static into a coherent signal. The essay can give the concept a name (e.g. maker's schedule, manager's schedule) or at minimum allow referring to the entire conceptual result with a single URL.

They can get people talking about a thought that they've all had but never shared. They can provide a new starting line for thinking, allowing it to advance a few millimeters further.

kelseyfrog• 1 year ago

I sometimes think the whole world would be better if more people learned to boil potatoes properly. It teaches attention, restraint, and the value of small, invisible work. There's no applause for a perfectly boiled potato, no headlines, no likes. But you know it when you taste it - soft but intact, simple but complete. It is the reward of not needing too much.

jampekka• 1 year ago

At least in Finland boiled new potatoes are a huge deal every summer and there's definitely applause for well boiled new potatoes.

jedberg• 1 year ago

If you're writing for smart people about important things, you're writing for the young.

And then there is the "You're one of the 10,000" XKCD comic to counter this point.

https://xkcd.com/1053/

There is just too much to know, even important stuff, for even smart old people to have been exposed to it.

Sure, you'll have a higher chance of surprising young people, who have less experience. But you can still surprise old people too.

Smart old people still have a lot to learn.

paulorlando• 1 year ago

Many forms of ignorance include the failure to recognize something that you experience.

There’s a scene in Michael Lewis’ book The New New Thing that chronicles a tear in a sail on Netscape investor Jim Clark’s mega yacht, the Hyperion. That ripped sail, way up on the 194-foot mast, stops the trip.

The Hyperion had at the time, the most advanced electronic monitoring and control systems. Yet, it took a crew member, a rare sailor among those on board, to notice a strange whipping sound, climb up the mast, and verify that the giant sail was ripping in the wind. While everyone on board was exposed to the same sound, few noticed that it was unusual. Fewer knew how to investigate and determine that the problem existed.

https://unintendedconsequenc.es/acquiring-ignorance/

MichaelZuo• 1 year ago

By that standard most people are ignorant of every new advancement past the (early?) middle ages, outside of the niches where they have significant experience.

neilv• 1 year ago

If you're writing for smart people about important things, you're writing for the young.

PG has seemed to have a fixation on youth, since at least one essay before YC was started, and there's still hints of it in YC practices today.

And I sometimes wonder whether our field would have so much techbro ageism, and the irrationally large egos of many early-20s 'founders', had PG not influenced tech industry culture quite so much.

Traditionally, in our teens and early 20s, we'd be vapid hormonal know-it-alls. (That's OK, it's normal, I did it too; no criticism.)

And the most validation of that we'd get (outside our equally naive peers) would a condescending pat on the head, from people who'd gone through that enthusiastically naive developmental phase themselves.

About up until the time we had to get a real job, and then we were confronted with not being as good as the experienced people, and the real world wasn't putting congratulatory star stickers on our homework.

So we'd grow out of it, and buckle down for the real education of post-school life.

Until then -- unless we were a not-yet-injured athlete in a marketable spectator sport, or an aspiring star working our way up the Hollywood casting couches, or being lured into a cult -- not many people would tell us that we were the superior person to be pursuing something, better than the people with experience and wisdom.

Maybe that was a good thing. (Not the youth who got exploited, but that the rest of us weren't given stuffed heads when we needed to start learning with humility.)

But then we got survivor bias kids of the dotcom boom and early PG influence era, like Zuckerberg, who, once they won the lottery, very vocally promoted the ageism. Because, hey, it worked for them.

The current tech industry jobs bloodbath will disabuse a lot of people of the silliness, too late for them. But we'll still have founders/managers aspiring to be billionaires, taking astrology-based lottery number-picking advice from past lottery winners.

pdonis• 1 year ago

PG has seemed to have a fixation on youth

Or more precisely, young (in their 20s) founders.

Possibly because he was already 32 when he founded Viaweb, and 41 when he founded YC.

mathgradthrow• 1 year ago

The argument is contradicted by his own strongest example.

I don't think that young people are the primary audience for the selfish gene, despite this being the archetypal example of writing to smart people about important topics.

Paul, your audience doesn't skew young. It skews credulous.

nilirl• 1 year ago

Main claim made: You can write about widely-applicable topics and give the reader a strong sense of learning as long as your audience is young. For older audiences, you need to pick a trade-off between how general the topic is and how strong a learning experience you can expect.

The argument was built on a weak premise. Ignores that learning is time consuming. And in some cases, money consuming. So, it does not follow that 'If you're writing for smart people about important things, you're writing for the young'.

Also, simpler explanation for the author having a young audience: The author is associated with a popular VC firm and writes a lot about tech entrepreneurship.

GMoromisato• 1 year ago

I think a better analogy is to think of an essay as a set of diffs to be applied to a brain.

For example, if I write an essay about how the world is round, most people would ignore it because they already have that "diff". But the essay (the diffs) presuppose some knowledge: what we mean by "the world" and what "round" means. A 2-year old might not have the base knowledge for the diffs to be effective, and so it wouldn't affect them either.

The more knowledge you assume, the more likely it is for the essay to be novel. Science papers are like this. They are almost all novel because they only include the diffs from the current knowledge in the field. But, of course, only a small set of people are affected by the diffs because only a small set has the baseline knowledge.

Paul Graham's idea is that young people don't have a large knowledge base, so it is easy to create diffs for them that are novel (and therefore impact them). But that assumes that knowledge is a scalar quantity: young people have knowledge level 2 while older people have knowledge level 5.

Instead, I think knowledge is an n-dimensional field. There is knowledge about how to cook, how to dress, how to solve differential equations, etc. There's a vast sea of ideas that I never understood until I had kids. I understand exhaustion now in a way that I never could before. Fear too. And joy. Until I had that baseline, all those diffs failed to merge.

Reading one essay may not change much for you. Sometimes you can't even tell what the diffs were. But each essay you read adds more baseline knowledge that makes the next essay more impactful. Maybe that's why I like reading Paul's essays: now that I've read enough of them I have enough of a common baseline to understand the diffs.

I think it's not the shape of the essay field that matters, but the baseline in your brain.

Seattle3503• 1 year ago

At the other extreme, writing merely puts into words something readers were already thinking — or thought they were.

This is remarkably similar to the thesis of Strange Tools by Alva Noë. Noë argues that art is method for making perceptual and conceptual processes visible, often by disrupting or defamiliarizing them.

woopwoop• 1 year ago

I think this point is less forceful than it seems due to the high dimensional nature of knowledge. I just don't know that much more than I did when I was younger; there are too many directions to set out in from any given point. I learn important new things all the time.

BobbyThrowaway• 1 year ago

[flagged]

NaOH• 1 year ago

Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

colmmacc• 1 year ago

I work with a lot of smart people, many smarter than myself, and a goal I've always set myself is to leave them knowing less. Smart people are almost always more efficient at knowing more all on their own; they tend to be autodidacts and information hungry. But knowing less is much harder.

We all build up mental frameworks and systems for how we think the world is organized, and that's how we come to "know" it. It's mostly assumptions and invariants we've collected here and there. With age and experience, they become instinctual and habitual too. "Change X and Y will happen".

But when someone comes along and pops one of those foundational assumptions, "You know 'Y' doesn't always have to be true, and here's how", it is an incredible gift. A smart person will suddenly see new landscapes of possibility, optimism, and exploration that were previously out of view. What they thought they knew they now see anew.

dgs_sgd• 1 year ago

But if you're going to write about things that are important to know, you have to ask why your readers don't already know them. Is it because they're smart but inexperienced, or because they're obtuse?

What’s missing is the third and most obvious explanation.. that what you think is important isn’t necessarily what others think is important..

Perhaps PG things this falls under the “obtuse” category.

analog312• 1 year ago

>> So the three reasons readers might not already know what you tell them are (a) that it's not important, (b) that they're obtuse, or (c) that they're inexperienced.

(d) because it's false.

I'm not saying PG's essay is false, but my scientific upbringing, and rare moments of humility, compel me to include this option.

westcoast49• 1 year ago

Or:

(e) because it’s subjective.

adtac• 1 year ago

1. PG is implicitly talking about good essays. And it's very hard to write a good essay if you don't believe it's true.

2. Whether something is true has nothing to do with whether the reader knows it. I know many false things and ideas.

neuroticnews25• 1 year ago

Ad 2, this is not how knowledge is understood in mainstream epistemology and in common language.

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge

muzani• 1 year ago

But why would someone write a false essay? Could they be more obtuse or inexperienced than the reader?

analog312• 1 year ago

They could be misinformed themselves, or concocting an argument that doesn't really make sense. Even a lot of seemingly "logical" arguments are really just chains of weak but plausible-sounding inferences.

sevensor• 1 year ago

So the three reasons readers might not already know what you tell them are (a) that it's not important, (b) that they're obtuse, or (c) that they're inexperienced

Importance is a loaded idea here. Important to whom? Importance is very contextual. So, for that matter is inexperience. People have vastly different reasons for being inexperienced in any given domain, and youth is only one of them. I for one am inexperienced at riding jet skis, and youth, unfortunately, is not the reason. And yet, to the right person, an essay about jet ski riding might be exactly what they need to read right now.

fastaguy88• 1 year ago

PG is an excellent writer, but this essay seems remarkably misleading. The unstated premise seems to be that well-educated adults already know everything they want/need to know about everything, which is silly. I'm older than PG, and pretty well educated, but I am constantly learning new things. I don't think it's because they are not important or I am obtuse. I think it is because I am (still) intellectually curious.

Sometimes I learn new things because they are new. And sometimes I learn new things (that are well known to people in other fields) because while I know a lot about some things, I know very little about others -- so little that I don't even know those things overlap with my interests.

Those of us who enjoy learning appreciate that we will never know everything we would like to, and in fact we will never know the boundaries of knowledge for topics we care a lot about. It's not that it is unimportant to us, it's just that we hadn't learned about it yet. That's why we read essays.

tolerance• 1 year ago

Pushing the needle of literacy and good writing requires eager young readers.

I think the point that PG is trying to make is that young people are easier to influence.

I don't know if acquiring new knowledge guarantees that it's going to be transformative in the way that it can be for the young, especially for those who are young today.

The intention behind acquiring knowledge can make a difference too. I imagine that a young person more likely aiming to independently acquire knowledge due to some practical want, than an older person who may be more content with the theory behind it.

But this is me speculating on a sensitive dichotomy. Although I think we should let the young guys have this one.

kazinator• 1 year ago

PG has a thing about youth; e.g. "But I don't expect to convince anyone (over 25) to go out and learn Lisp." (Beating The Averages).

The Shape of the Essay Field

Related Stories