Why drinking coffee in Iran has become so complicated

https://adelbordbari.github.io/etc/2025-04-16-coffee/

by imnitwit • 1 year ago

137 135 1 year ago

adelbordbari.github.io

duxup• 1 year ago

They’re selling a lifestyle.

People eat up "lifestyle" brand stuff like crazy. I suspect people just want something special in their daily lives. I get that.

I assume it's appealing to sellers too because it inspires some potential level of loyalty and uniqueness when it comes to their products where otherwise it is "just coffee".

Granted I say that while I sip my Kirkland coffee here at my desk, amused that what was once a sort of semi generic store brand, Kirkland now has it's own apparel with its brand on it and Costco fans love it.

I guess we can find something special everywhere.

bluedino• 1 year ago

I was on a coffee shop kick for...15 years?

And then I just quit. I'm not sure if was the price, waiting in line, or the quality going down since so many places popped up or what. But I just have zero interest in buying a coffee. I drink generic stuff I make at home. Or I just go without.

Oddly around the same time I quit drinking sodas.

rdtsc• 1 year ago

I am kind of the same. I will support local coffee shops frequently but I am not good enough to notice the super fine flavor profiles or remember them. They all taste “yummy” including the stuff I grind and brew at home or from Costco.

SoftTalker3• 1 year ago

Yep it’s all about justifying $6-8 or more for a freaking cup of coffee. Even McDonald’s got in on it. Used to pay about $1 for a drip-brewed cup of coffee, now it’s “McCafe” and closer to $5.

I drink Folgers and that’s good enough.

antasvara• 1 year ago

Just out of curiosity, is there nothing that you have preferences about? Because I think it's easy to look at someone else's hobby and reflexively say that they're overpaying for something.

For example, I can't personally fathom paying 4k for a gaming PC. 60 vs 40 frames per second doesn't "matter" to me in any meaningful sense.

That being said, I totally get why other people care. If gaming is the thing you really enjoy, I can see why you might want the faster framerate. If you exclusively play super demanding games, I can see wanting decreased loading times and better graphics.

I guess the point I'm making is it's totally fine to drink your Folgers and be fine with that. I do also think that there are "overpriced" coffee places that aren't offering meaningfully better quality and are surviving based on branding. But I think it's okay to spend more for things that you like more. If might be "just a cup of coffee" to you, but reflect and consider what your "cup of coffee" is.

In my opinion, life is more fun when we can enjoy the variety that it has to offer and let others do the same.

elijaht2• 1 year ago

I see a medium coffee in the McDonald’s app for $1.79. What does it cost near you?

op00to• 1 year ago

McDonald’s in my area still has $1 coffee, and it’s actually very good. I am a big fan of the fancier light roasts at my local roaster, but McD has good and cheap coffee.

Festro• 1 year ago

Article posits this argument:

"They’re not really about coffee anymore. They’re selling a lifestyle."

Then says of the old coffee "Coffee in Iran isn’t new—we were drinking it long before tea took over. Back in the Safavid era, coffeehouses were where people gathered for stories, debates, and a hit of something strong." - this is a lifestyle related to coffee.

And says about the new coffee "Walk in, and the menu reads like a novel: “Ethiopian Yirgacheffe with hints of jasmine and citrus.”" - this is the literal attributes of coffee, origin and flavour profile.

I'm sorry, but coffee is now, more than ever, about the coffee. People who enjoy coffee then make it a part of their lifestyle.

I'd love to hear more about the older Iranian coffee culture, that sounds wonderfully romantic. It's a pattern across the world that we've lost access to third spaces as everything gains a capitalised cost. And as media has intensified and technology poked into every waking moment we're less likely to gather amongst our community in those spaces to just sit and listen anymore. I think we've evolved new ways of doing things, like how we enjoy our newfound international access to coffee varietals but it's good to address what we've lost in doing so.

This article is a bit whiny about the new, and doesn't talk enough about the qualities of the old. There's a good point to be made, but the article makes it poorly.

crazygringo• 1 year ago

Seriously. This article seems to reveal much more about the author than about coffee.

I can't speak about Iran, but getting into coffee is no different from getting into pie-making, or sourdough, or wine, or cocktail-making.

They write:

Coffee used to be fuel. Now it’s a lifestyle accessory.

I think this is the quote that reveals everything. People don't want just "fuel" anymore. They want something that actually tastes good.

But for some reason the author thinks it's all about marketing, insecurity, and influencers. Can't the author just let people enjoy what they like?

Why does it bother the author so much? Why can't they even imagine it might just be because the coffee tastes better, and it's a relatively inexpensive and fun hobby if you want to get into it? Why do they have to judge people for it instead?

visarga• 1 year ago

"They’re not really about coffee anymore. They’re selling a lifestyle."

I like the emphatic style of GPT-4o lately. I can spot it from a mile.

gwern5• 1 year ago

Bingo. OP is obviously LLM-written and is nothing but clickbait. (Did anything but that tweet even happen? Is any of it true?) And HN is falling for it hook, line, and sinker exactly as calculated.

Look at the author's previous blog posts: low effort, not even correctly spelled or written, like https://adelbordbari.github.io/album/2025-1-25-the-horror-an... (as expected from an Iranian ESL) - and then this one is suddenly boom: perfectly spelled, em-dashes all over, and where did all these <br> come from? Who writes a Github Pages Markdown Jekyll post with a bunch of <br>s in it...? An LLM, obviously.

https://adelbordbari.github.io/about/

I’m studying artificial intelligence at university...I’m busy with my storybook that’s supposed to be published by June 2024 as well.

paganel2• 1 year ago

Anyone care to recommend some specialty coffee-shops in Tehran? Or in Iran, more generally? That's the one thing I'm searching for when going to a new (big-ish) city, I've honestly stopped caring about museums, archaeological places or the like, I just want to go to the same specialty coffee shops to which I go here in Bucharest, to be surrounded by the same people I'm surrounded here in Bucharest while reading a book or a magazine.

And to give something in return, for Athens I can heartily recommend Taf Coffee [1], and also MOTIV [2] just across the small street, and in Vienna I have a soft spot for CoffeePirates [3]

[1] https://www.google.com/maps/place/Taf+Coffee/@37.9834313,23....

[2] https://www.google.com/maps/place/MOTIV/@37.9835867,23.73117...

[3] https://www.google.com/maps/place/CoffeePirates/@48.2173765,...

meesles2• 1 year ago

Why do you prefer to spend time in the same setting with the same people when you are in a new place? Why not stay home?

Arainach2• 1 year ago

OP does not literally mean the same people but the same type of people.

Having a familiar group with something in common is a great conversation starter and way to make new friends. This is similar to how you can visit a new area and stop by a brewery (if you like beer), a sports game (if you like sports), etc.

paganel2• 1 year ago

I find the world pretty chaotic as it is right now, and pretty split up, seeing and directly experimenting an international informal community that ignores borders somehow makes me more relaxed, gives purpose to a place/city I'm in at a certain moment in time.

Later edit: I'm over-reaching/exaggerating to make a point, but what I'm doing it's similar in spirit to how back in the European Middle Ages many foreign merchants were seeking accommodation at places very similar to what they had back home, think of the Hanseatic League and of all the Hanseatic Houses spread throughout the merchant cities from the Baltic or the North Sea. This one was for London: The German Hanse in London and the Steelyard [1]

[1] https://www.thehistoryoflondon.co.uk/the-german-hanse-in-lon...

Conscat• 1 year ago

Not Iranian, but if I want plain tasty black coffee, I can grind, brew, and drink it topless at home. My favorite cafes in the bay area all have something more to offer me than decent plain coffee. I think this is just indicative of how the culture surrounding third places has changed.

lxgr5• 1 year ago

One big advantage of cafes is that they sell coffee and exist pretty much everywhere. The same can't be said for my home.

readthenotes1• 1 year ago

Reminds of a conversation I overheard between two middle aged guys talking about different expensive watches...

Veblan wrote about "conspicuous consumption" over 100 years ago. I see this as the same disease

canjobear• 1 year ago

Writing blog posts against people who are precious about their coffee is also a lifestyle signal.

imnitwit5• 1 year ago

good one

tkzed49• 1 year ago

Seems like the same tired take on third wave coffee, without much specific to Iran. Some people like the flavor of coffee grown in different regions, just like tea or wine. If you want a classic espresso roast blend of whatever, I haven't been to a cafe that won't sell you that.

noirbot13• 1 year ago

And the usual retort you get if you point that out is "but this new fancy coffee tastes worse", which always strikes me as amusing coming from folks who minutes before were claiming it all tasted the same and mocking the idea of tasting notes being real.

Having a preference for a traditional status quo blend is still a preference!

searealist5• 1 year ago

There are two axes here:

- Beans

- Roast level

The variation from roasting is far greater than the variation from the beans, and all third-wave beans are lightly roasted. This results in a brew that is dominated by acids.

searealist5• 1 year ago

I've come across many cafes in San Francisco that only have light roast espresso that tastes like lemon juice.

snyp• 1 year ago

The author just finds the process of ordering complicated because they do not know how to. I think there is opportunity here to make selecting the drink of your choice a better experience. There might also be space here for coffee discovery or exploration for the customer.

hilsdev• 1 year ago

If there’s an increasing number of options, isn’t it by definition becoming more complicated?

noirbot13• 1 year ago

I mean, it's seldom that complicated even. They just went from having one choice of espresso to, likely, at most 3. The most fancy coffee shops I've ever been to usually don't have more than a couple espresso options dialed in at any given time. If you don't care, just pick the cheapest or ask for the person's favorite.

I'm sure there is some influencer/performative aspect to this as well that the author is reacting to, but the complaint strikes me mostly as a "I was ok with the status quo, and I dislike that other people prefer things other than that". Having preferences and choices is not by default some sort of pretentious thing!

lxgr5• 1 year ago

Yes, but why should everybody have to show the same level of care for everything they do/consume as aficionados?

Just like it can be extremely fulfilling to build a PC from parts, compile your own Linux kernel, get an old car working again etc., it can be nice to have somebody else do all of that for you and focus on the details of life that you enjoy most.

Freedom2• 1 year ago

They don't? I was in Iran recently for a business trip and I simply asked for my usual cappuccino one sugar at almost every cafe I went to and it was hassle-free experience.

It's actually good to offer more options to invoke curiosity, but the old options are still there.

NoboruWataya2• 1 year ago

why should everybody have to show the same level of care for everything they do/consume as aficionados

Nobody has to do this in any city I have been to. Even in the most hipstery independent coffee shops, you can still ask for a black/white coffee and they will make you one. And if you simply can't stomach the independent coffee shop there is most likely a Starbucks or Pret next door.

Granted I have not been to Iran, and am loathe to make assumptions about countries I have not experienced, but I simply do not believe that OP cannot find a "basic" coffee in his city.

petre• 1 year ago

That's why it works so smooth in Italy, because no one has the patience for all the BS, they just want their shot of espresso, not being "educated" into "coffe culture". And they also drink dark roast, no useless sauer fruity notes crap, you drink cascara tonic if you want that.

I agree with this guy. Teheran is probably a nice place if it weren't for the ayatollahs, hijab police, sponsoring terrorists, embargoes and "friendhip" with Russia. All those details are like coffee marketing made into a religion and used as state policy.

shwin• 1 year ago

I think it’s actually a good thing that people are increasingly curious and informed about where the things they consume come from. Sure, some of it can be a front, but consumers get a choice to be more discriminating and demanding about where their consumption comes from, and that can (and has!) lead to better production practices; feels weird to complain about that.

noirbot13• 1 year ago

This is also a huge part. A lot of the "look at this insane price for coffee" is because exploitative practices for centuries has led to people having price expectations for coffee that are unreasonable in a fair market. There's definitely crazy high end coffees that are $20 a cup for various reasons, but $6 pounds of coffee from the grocery store are also an anomaly.

SOLAR_FIELDS• 1 year ago

Unfortunately most people would not want to pay market rates for coffee that is farmed by people paid living wages. Kona coffee is a good example of this. It runs about USD $25-$30/lb in bean form for actual Kona coffee (not blends)

imnitwit5• 1 year ago

There aren't even proper recipes. You could go to 3 different cafes on the same street, order the same thing, and get 3 totally different results. Afogato? Every barista has their own "personal experience". The names they use aren't even "real" anymore. Not coffee-related but the first thing on top of my head: They sell bacon here in Iran, and for those unaware, pork is haram in Islam, thus illegal to sell, produce, or consume. It's just cuts of beef or lamb that they sell as bacon! And the catch? It's more expensive.

the same thing, but with a different price tag.

arthurofbabylon2• 1 year ago

In Italy, ordering an espresso takes five seconds.

Have you had espresso in Italy? By all measures, the worst coffee I have had anywhere in the world, on the level of instant coffee in 2010 (remember that?).

I personally don’t complain when people emphasize the compelling story of their offerings – it typically coincides with a high-quality brew!

Centigonal4• 1 year ago

I went to Rome in 2019 and all the coffee I had was pretty decent! It was all espresso, and a lot of Lavazza (not third wave local roaster stuff), but it was all pretty good.

shaky-carrousel• 1 year ago

I’m guessing you didn’t travel all across Italy tasting espresso to back up such a broad statement. I’d be surprised if you ventured much beyond a few tourist traps in Rome.

thenthenthen• 1 year ago

I love LOVE the coffee culture in Italy, 1€ espresso’s at a standing bar?! Count me in!

lxgr5• 1 year ago

That's in fact exactly what I love about espresso in Italy and some other European countries: It's ubiquitous, fast, cheap (even cheaper if you drink it standing up!), and as a result a commodity and not something pretentious.

I also don't remember ever having had a bad cup of espresso in Italy. If it ever happens, I'll just walk a few steps down the street and chase it down with a decent or good one.

noirbot13• 1 year ago

But that is, in itself, a normalcy bias. I don't generally like Italian roast coffee. It's too oily and generally upsets my stomach. It's not a flavor or style I like in espresso. I'm not going to claim no one should like it - clearly people do, but if you don't like that, Italy is a really bad place to live because it's so orthodox about its espresso and doesn't support "pretentious" places that may serve something that doesn't taste "normal".

Just because a specific style has been around for years doesn't mean it's the only valid style that's not "pretentious".

reverius42• 1 year ago

The best thing about espresso in Italy, besides it being universally drinkable (assuming you like espresso at all), is that last time I was there it was still only 1 euro. Drop a coin on the bar and get an espresso shot, any time.

I assume it's more like 2 euros now.

thomassmith655• 1 year ago

This is like someone accustomed to rubbery, processed mozzarella visiting Italy and complaining that Italian mozzarella has so little flavor and texture.

If someone doesn't like Italian mozzarella, then they don't like mozzarella: what they like is some mozzarella-inspired thing.

The same goes for espresso. In Italy, espresso and coffee have been synonymous for over a century.

arthurofbabylon2• 1 year ago

Espresso has moved beyond the Italian methods, despite its origins.

Yes, both a Moka pot and a full pressure larger machine handled by someone practiced can produce excellent coffee, but you cannot seriously expect espresso in an Italian city to compete with what is happening in Tokyo, Bangkok, Taipei, Vancouver, San Francisco, etc.

During coffee’s third wave the profession of barista emerged, and Italy took little part in this elevation of craft. There are people who have literally built a career out of what others (Italians included) dismiss as fuss.

Yes, Italy devised some of the original techniques, but that was about sixty years ago, with — I would argue — limited development since.

Drink fifty espressos each in Rome, Milan, (or the villages!), Tokyo, Bangkok, Vancouver then tell me where you think it is best.

(PS — Nice try, but no one says Italian mozzarella is bad; it is incredibly delicious by all accounts.)

behnamoh2• 1 year ago

People are bored, insecure, or just looking for something to latch onto. So we pay more for a label that makes us feel seen. It’s not about taste—it’s about signaling. And cafés know that. They exploit it. Ruthlessly.

This is a poor take on what's actually a rich cultural shift towards variety seeking. What's wrong with that? The author could go to a regular cafe and have the regular coffee they want, but some people want trying new things.

lxgr5• 1 year ago

It can be frustrating for people that simply don't care for the variety and now have to make choices in a place where they used to be fine with an order of "one coffee, please".

Personally (quantity over quality when it comes to coffee), as long as I can still do that and get a hot, caffeinated, sugar-free (in regions where that's the default) beverage, I don't mind.

behnamoh2• 1 year ago

... now have to make choices in a place where they used to be fine ...

That seems to be the customer's problem though, not the business owner. The cafe owner has no obligation to stick to the old way of doing things forever. Companies change all the time and if customers aren't happy about it they should move on to other options.

mbac32768• 1 year ago

one alcohol, please

enaaem• 1 year ago

Are people afraid to ask for a recommendation?

kieloo• 1 year ago

Ironically, that’s exactly how I feel going to a pub. I don’t really care for beer so anything works for me but I’m often expected to choose from many.

kubb• 1 year ago

There's a strong force in humans, an instinct against anything new or unfamiliar. It manifests as conservatism, and it comes out even against insignificant shifts.

imnitwit5• 1 year ago

Oh, it is a cultural shift, but not simply towards variety. It feels like it's towards just making a scene of everything, and then selling the scene to you once you're deep in. You'd very commonly find items titled:

"deep loneliness", "caramel kiss", "essence of isolation", "burning blooms", "memories of early morning Paris", "rise of the Persian kingdom" "the battle of joys", "a millennium of bliss", "sausage party", "kiss of the dune", and my favorite: "call it whatever you want".

Yes, those are [roughly translated] titles in a cafe menu(!?) The point is to "have" a variety of options, not to be overwhelmed by the abundance of choices. I'm just ranting since I feel like I have no choice, other than to have too many choices. I want the simple, generic boring stuff, "too". Isn't the lack of that very "generic" option against variety itself? I'm a potential consumer too, but I'm deprived of my choice since I'm not planning to pay 3x for an unnecessarily weird name.

meindnoch• 1 year ago

Funny how even a repressive theocracy can seem so familiar. I guess that's globalization for you.

curtisblaine3• 1 year ago

It's not really hard to have a default coffee type + size and serve that when the client asks for a coffee with no specifications. I wonder why no fancy coffee place does that. I guess it has to do with that hostile strain of sales tactics where they screw with your instincts and blind spots to sell you things you don't really want. I'm growing more and more intolerant with that kind of tactics, because they're everywhere and you need to actively fight with them to avoid your money being essentially scammed out of your wallet. I wonder if there's something one can do to screw with them back.

noirbot13• 1 year ago

Most fancy coffee shops do do that though. If you walk in and ask for a drip coffee or an espresso, especially if you just say "I want a basic espresso", you'll probably get what you want. I'm sure there's some places that would be annoying about it, but most specialty places deal with plenty of people coming in every day not used to ordering in specialty places.

If you really want a basic coffee with the cheapest beans you can find, why would you go to a fancy shop? If anything, it's more likely to work there than going to a multi-course restaurant and trying to order a hamburger. There are other businesses that serve a "no choices" need.

curtisblaine3• 1 year ago

Unfortunately that's not my experience. The places I've been just point you to the menu, which normally is quite complex and with many choices.

If you really want a basic coffee with the cheapest beans you can find

Doesn't have to be cheap, it has to be plain. Just the coffee that, in average, the average disinterested client would like. We had a similar concept - now almost disappeared - with wine. The wine of the house was an average non-fancy wine that you could drink with your dinner without spending time deciphering the wine list.

If you really want a basic coffee with the cheapest beans you can find, why would you go to a fancy shop?

Because cities are migrating en masse to fancy shops. Selling lifestyle is apparently more profitable & glamorous, so everyone wants to be the fancy shop rather than the humble bar.

jabl• 1 year ago

Brings to mind the classic(?) Denis Leary skit: https://youtube.com/watch?v=D66P47NNnfE

mock-possum• 1 year ago

It’s crazy to me that he’s just making this shit up and people are laughing at it - it’s the same impulse that drives people to repost agitprop completely critically, without any thought for the accuracy of the content or the aim or the context or anything, really, aside from the like the way the idea of it makes them feel.

Walk into literally any place in America that serves coffee, ask for ‘just coffee’ or ‘black coffee’ or ‘drip coffee’ or ‘house blend’ or however you want to say it, and get a hot cup of exactly that: ‘just coffee.’ It’s fun to spout a list of XYZ-achinos but why are people if that’s somehow accurate or insightful? He’s making shit up.

Centigonal4• 1 year ago

One thing the author fails to take note of here is that Iranians have historically been extremely precious about their bougie little drinks. From tea and coffee houses to summer cordials like sekanjabin, basil seed drinks, and sour cherry sharbat to the dozens of varieties of doogh to all the little fresh juice places in Tehran, getting way too into beverages is an enduring Iranian cultural tradition (albeit fancy coffee comes with an unusually high price tag).

morkalork• 1 year ago

Wow, so harsh! But also so true, not in Iran but in my city an Iranian café opened across the street from the fine arts museum and serves all sorts of drinks like hibiscus sharbat, khakshir. Very trendy, very bougie.

Centigonal4• 1 year ago

I mean it with love! I'm originally Iranian, and I may or may not be describing myself here. :)

Also, I know exactly the place you're talking about and their drinks are great!

NoboruWataya2• 1 year ago

I've always assumed this is due to them not drinking much alcohol as a culture. Alcohol occupies so much of our focus in the West - so much has been written about the nuances of whiskey, wine, beer, etc. It stands to reason that cultures that don't drink alcohol as much would get just as invested in the drinks they do consume.

ayuhito• 1 year ago

I think it depends.

Where I used to live in the Middle East, the culture was very tea (more specifically karak) centric for sure. But it wasn’t a hobby you get so deep into that you become very specific for the average person.

You just drive to your regular place. There’s only one choice and that’s karak. You sip it in your car, chat with your buddies, and you drive off.

Definitely do miss the late nights there. No alcohol, just tea and still an extremely social society.

thayne• 1 year ago

As further evidence of that, in Utah, another place where many people don't drink alcohol, there are a plethora of "dirty soda" shops that sell non-alcoholic cocktails of soda with various additional syrups, juices, and flavors mixed in.

JumpCrisscross• 1 year ago

sour cherry sharbat

This sounds delicious! Do you know a place outside Iran that nails it? (Together with the obsessive bougie tiny-drink cultural cues.)

seanmcdirmid• 1 year ago

If it exists, it would be in LA somewhere (probably in little Persia).

defrost• 1 year ago

Persian coffee shops in Australia go all in, there are several in Perth (Western Australia) and Melbourne (Victoria) run by Iranian born families .. and Melbourne coffee culture is arguably the bougiest on the planet, certainly rivalling L.A. and easily outshining the pretensions of Sydney ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCYK6-RTRsc )

Centigonal4• 1 year ago

Honestly, I'm too far removed from the culture in Iran to nail the second part, but I'm a big fan of the drinks at Cafe Aunja in Montreal, and Komaaj in San Francisco is wonderful too.

Sour cherry sharbat is very easy to do at home, too. You just need a bottle of sour cherry syrup (sadaf, golchin, and marco polo are all solid brands in the US). Pour a tablespoon or two into an empty glass, add water or seltzer on top, add ice, mix it all up with a spoon, and you're good to go.

perching_aix2• 1 year ago

When did getting a coffee turn into a whole performance?

Literally every time I see or hear anything on the internet about coffee, it's some of the most pretentious and performative crap I've ever encountered. So I'd imagine a very long while ago.

StopDisinfo910• 1 year ago

To be fair, good coffee is actually really tasty and different varieties actually have different tastes. So, it’s true than there is a world of potential out of cheap pre-grinded over-roasted bought to be as cheap as possible coffee.

The issue is that there is another world between that and the horribly pretentious and snobbish consumers buying incredibly overpriced cups from trendy places.

But normal people who enjoy quality coffee do exist.

vbo• 1 year ago

I think there may be more to overcomplicated brews than lifestyle or status. It's a desire to get technical in a world where so much of life has been automated away from the consumer's view or ability to affect it. Coffee is a way to tinker with something in the same way previous generations tinkered with their cars or radios or whatever. It's an outlet for creativity and technical skill building for those that engage in brewing.

Coffee shops will sell rituals, status, prestige, sophistication or the appearance thereof. Same as every other business. But that's not to say the product can't be superior - it can. It also doesn't say that every product that makes use of those marketing techniques is superior; but even if it isn't, if the customer walks away happy, they must've done something right, right?

Don't we do the same with the technology we're working on? How often is it truly better beyond any critique? People were getting stuff done even before our products were around with less fuss and a different set of problems. We do what we do to end up busy with stuff so we can do what we do all over again, don't we? I digress.

It does get tiresome when everyone is trying to sell you an experience and it becomes disappointing when the selling of experiences becomes so commoditized, the thing being sold loses its credibility as something special on account of being sold as such. Is it a crisis of authenticity?

To each, their own. I used to tinker with espresso based drinks, but I'm mostly over it. I've learned to discern (some) better coffee beans from others, but I mostly don't drink that - I can't justify paying that much for a coffee I brew myself and that I may botch out of being in a hurry. It's also a distraction that takes time I don't have anymore. But it was fun to explore for a while and I now own a very fancy looking espresso machine, grinder and all sorts of acccessories.

mppm2• 1 year ago

1) Why is this even on HN? Some guy complains about third wave coffee on his trashy, possibly AI generated, blog. Very interesting.

2) Since people take this seriously for some reason: Fine coffee is neither a hallucination, nor a theater performance, nor a sign of ultimate decadence. Or at least no more so than fine tea and wine. Different producers, roasts and preparation methods give markedly different coffee with a lot of nuance that you can learn to discern and enjoy. Or not -- to each his own.

NaOH• 1 year ago

Please don't complain that a submission is inappropriate. If a story is spam or off-topic, flag it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

mppm2• 1 year ago

This submission is not technically inappropriate and flagging it would be an abuse of that feature. It's just very low quality and very surprising that it made #1 on HN.

quantified• 1 year ago

I'm glad Yrgacheffe is available somewhere. It seems to have dried up in the USA. I wouldn't have gotten hooked on coffee without it.

amanaplanacanal• 1 year ago

Wow. This is like complaining about going into my local pub for a beer and discovering they have a dozen taps. Well sure, different people like different things, and sometimes I might want a creamy stout, and sometimes a West Coast IPA, and sometimes a light lager on a hot summer day.

I guess life was better for those behind the iron curtain that only had one brand?

smath• 1 year ago

I think both extremes can be suboptimal (no choice and too much choice). See for example ‘the paradox of choice’ - research done by Barry Schwartz and later by Sheena iyengar https://modelthinkers.com/mental-model/paradox-of-choice

refulgentis• 1 year ago

I'm not sure this imagined scenario, where coffee shops ask where you want your beans from, would apply to this study:

"displayed 24 jams in a busy supermarket for tasting...60% of customers stop[ped and tasted], 3% [made] a purchase."..."Next, 6 jam jars....[40% stopped, less than 60%], but...purchases went up [from 3%] to 30%."

It reeks of the worst sins of early-TED-era social psychology experiments: tons of obvious confounders.

For instance, 24 samples at a table that was 50% busier means I'm thinking I'll come back and wrap up my tryout next week or whenever: it's very busy and I can't afford 15 minutes to sit around trying to maintain tasting notes on something I didn't have intent to buy anyway -- if I did, I wouldn't be sampling!

It also means less 1:1 salesmanship contact with the purveyor of samples, and 4x of much investment needed on their part.

yumraj• 1 year ago

research done by Barry Schwartz and later by Sheena iyengar

Per the article, Sheena Iyengar did the study on 2000 and then ”This study became a central example in Barry Schwartz's 2004 book, The Paradox of Choice.”

On a related note, this is one of the main reasons we like Costco. Fewer SKUs means less cognitive load and easier shopping.

AlfeG• 1 year ago

This is my problem in every situation.

Want a car? Here are thousands of options. Want a fridge? Good luck in market research. Want a TV? Nope, I will not help. Too many variables. Bottle of water? Here are hundreds of options. Let's guess why one bottle can cost x100 times more than another.

Sometimes I just want simple things ... Like to drink a cup of coffee.

In my student time. There was a shop where we bought "Beer", "Cognac" or "Vodka", with corresponding simple labels. No trademarks, no info on producers. Very easy to choose.

Lunatic666• 1 year ago

I find coffee very approachable for people without any experience. If you have a good barista they should be able to make a good recommendation for you. Maybe start with something nutty or chocolatey and if you are a bit more adventurous, try a coffee with a berry flavored profile. For me the big surprise was when I started with specialty coffee that I could taste the difference between very small changes when pulling a shot.

leapingdog• 1 year ago

Want a fridge? Good luck in market research.

If paralysed by consumer choice I would lean on Which?[0] magazine which is run by the Consumers' Association charity. Perhaps there is something similar in your geography.

In my student time. There was a shop where we bought "Beer", "Cognac" or "Vodka", with corresponding simple labels.

This reminds me of the grocery store in the film Repo Man[1] which had a few digs at consumerism. I prefer to know where my alcohol is from & who made it but I pass no judgement.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Which%3F [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repo_Man_(film)

maxander• 1 year ago

The interesting thing about this blog post isn’t the point it makes (which was endlessly made about cafes in all blue-state U.S. cities in the 00s) but that it’s an Iranian writing in English, and thus for an Western audience, about Iranian culture.

What is going on with that? I don’t even dare to speculate. But something more interesting than bougie coffeeshops, certainly.

cyberlurker• 1 year ago

I would like to hear more. Why is it more interesting? Is it really that rare for Iranians to write in English for Western audiences?

imnitwit5• 1 year ago

xD ask me.

smus• 1 year ago

So many straws were grasped at in the making of this article

486sx33• 1 year ago

I’d like an extra large “ayatollah is a phony, bring back the shah” with golden bells on

pier25• 1 year ago

You go to order a coffee, and the guy’s like, ‘From Kenyan farms or Brazil?’

Well Italy doesn't plant coffee so it must come from somewhere else after all.

If you're not curious or don't care where it comes from just say that or pick one randomly.

dhendo1• 1 year ago

Interesting to see the same complaints I heard 20 years ago, but on the Internet this time instead of just in-person gripes

killerstorm• 1 year ago

Literally the opposite problem in Portugal: you go to a restaurant, food is good, you want to drink espresso in the end, the bring Delta's worst blend.

rad_gruchalski• 1 year ago

Life hack: go and ask for exactly what you want. I’d like a black coffee, don’t care, cheapest, to go. Any place they serving fancy coffee would have also your regular black filtered coffee. Ask for that.

pyfon2• 1 year ago

BS. If you are into coffee you can taste different beans. Ironically other than Ethiopian I don't think the origin country itself makes much difference (?) but maybe the farm does and then how it was roasted and when.

Most coffee shops I have been to (not Iran tho) you can order your espresso in 5 sec (after a queue perhaps) but if you want to pick a bean or get cold brew you can do that too.

I'm surprised Iran isn't more into Turkish style coffee though (?)

Why drinking coffee in Iran has become so complicated

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